WABC 100% syndicated

[recto101]

Well isn't this the 30 Anniversary of when WABC770 flipped from top 40 to Talk. I know in some of the NYC radio blogs they said that WABC770 went to talk in 1982. However there were other ABC O&O's that were already talk by the time that 770AM went to this operation. I know that KABC 790 was talk as far back as the 1960's or 1970's. I heard of Michael Jackson (LA Host) Moved from KNX-AM to KABC around the time KNX went all-news. I heard of KGO was news talk as far back as the 1960's or 1970's while WABC 770 was doing Top40. WABC back in the 1960's and 1970's were as comparable as the Drake RKO stations were in other parts of the country were.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvaxfYQl6dY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Y-Gj6ryXQ&feature=related

 

[OC3]

Good point.

 

[Al Timiter]

WABC won Awards for its News operation in the 60's when it was a Top 40 station. Can the same be said for its news operation now? ( I know that "Awards" don't necessarily constitute revenue but it's an indication that the station is putting out a superior product, which is usually rewarded with ratings and revenue.)

Wonder what would have happened if the owners had tried to uphold those high standards as it moved into the Talk era? Wonder what would have happened if they had continued to invest in the product instead of finding ways to cut, cut, cut to satisfy Wall Street?

 

[TheBigA]

Wonder what would have happened if they had continued to invest in the product instead of finding ways to cut, cut, cut to satisfy Wall Street?

Keep in mind that ABC was a pretty cheap company back in the 60s and 70s too. Especially when compared to NBC. Rick Sklar wrote in his autobiography that he would have dropped all news from WABC if he could, but the company feared the wrath of the FCC. There was a news requirement then. So he moved the news to "five minutes sooner" where it would do the least harm. In his autobiography, company chairman Leonard Goldenson talked about how the switch to color for TV (ABC was the last of the big three to switch) almost bankrupted the company. Lots of cuts were made to allow them to make that change. When the Cap Cities people came in and bought the company, it was a David buying Golliath situation, and a lot more cuts were made. So satisfying Wall Street has been a concern at ABC for a very long time.

 

[davideduardo]

However there were other ABC O&O's that were already talk by the time that 770AM went to this operation.

The ABC Radio operations in NY, Chicago, LA, Houston, Detroit, Pittsburgh and San Francisco each had very different AMs. A number of the AMs were late-comers to Top 40... such as WLS and WABC and KQV and they did well for a while. WLS got hit by WCFL and then FM, KQV was hit by 13-Q with a better signal and then by Pittman and an FM, and WABC managed to endure quite a while.

But the rest of the group was fairly diverse, with a couple of stations not quite finding a solid base. Of course, the FMS, in many markets, achieved success with AOR formats... with that being more a reaction to the '67 FCC dictate on simulcasts than anything else.

WABC back in the 1960's and 1970's were as comparable as the Drake RKO stations were in other parts of the country were.

WABC was a very different animal from the Drake consulted RKO Top 40 stations. Using KHJ and comparing it with WABC reveals plenty of significant and not-so-subtle differences, ranging from the longer, more traditional jingles to less-tightened jock.guidelines.

 

[OC3]

Okay...interesting history, but does this have any bearing on the fact that Monday through Friday there is just a 5AM news hour that is locally produced?

 

[TheBigA]

Okay...interesting history, but does this have any bearing on the fact that Monday through Friday there is just a 5AM news hour that is locally produced?

What do you mean by "locally produced?" Because most of the shows are based in and eminate from New York City.

And if you look back at the history of WABC, if you begin with the era when it was known at WJZ, the NBC Blue affiliate, through the MusicRadio period, when the majority of the broadcast day was filled with nationally-distributed recordings, to the beginings of the TalkRadio era, when a lot of the shows were from ABC TalkNet, it'll filled with national programming.

 

[OC3]

Oh really?? That's an odd way to look at the situation. I think you are splitting hairs with that logic. While the music may have been the same, one would have to say that only WABC had Harry Harrison, Dan Ingram, Ron Lundy, George Michael, Johhny Donovan, etc. Wasn;t that what really made the station? Other stations in NYC played the same music, but the DJs on WABC were what seperated it from the rest. In much the same way as a local host like a John Gambling who truely does a local show seperates his staition from the xerox talk that is on most of the airwaves. When I say locally produced I mean produced for the NY market, not shows where Bill from Brooklyn is followed up by Debbie from LA, or JEd from North Carolina! Sorry if you don't understand that logic but then I don't seem to agree with some of the other conclusions you've reached.

 

[TheBigA]

Oh really?? That's an odd way to look at the situation. I think you are splitting hairs with that logic. While the music may have been the same, one would have to say that only WABC had Harry Harrison, Dan Ingram, Ron Lundy, George Michael, Johhny Donovan, etc. Wasn;t that what really made the station?

So now they have Imus, Geraldo, Rush, and Hannity. No other station in NYC has those personalities, and as a result, WABC is the #1 news talk station in town. Those shows are all staffed by local people in New York City. That's what makes them all locally produced.

 

[OC3]

Fine...whatever you want. End of topic thanks to your myopic view.

 

[TheBigA]

It's no more "myopic" than your contention that a station whose signal reaches 20 states should be programmed as though it's a small neighborhood station. It was never run that way.

 

[wadio]

The shows at WABC may be locally produced but there's no synergy among them. They might as well come from different locations.

In contrast, the Mike Gallagher show on WOR manages to sound like a part of the station. John Gambling does a hand-off to Gallagher a little before 10 each morning, they chat, and often during his show Gallagher mentions something he heard Gambling say earlier.

That kind of interaction, IMO, makes all the difference between a station sounding like a radio station or sounding like a network feed. Syndication isn't the problem per se, but it fosters the lack of synergy we hear on WABC.

 

[TheBigA]

The shows at WABC may be locally produced but there's no synergy among them. They might as well come from different locations.

I think that's more a function of "shows" vs. "stations." Music stations are programmed for continuity throughout the day. Other than mornings, there aren't any shows, distinct segments of the day that belonged to specific hosts. Talk radio is where the show concept still exists, as it did in the old days. From what I'm reading, Cumulus is looking to create a talk network where there are Cumulus-branded hosts all day. Perhaps then, you'll get your "synergy," but I don't think you can find a lot of examples like the Gallagher example you gave.

Thinking back to when WNBC had Imus, Stern, and Wolfman, not only was there no synergy, there was actual hostility among the hosts. And Stern was very opposed to station branding. The famous scene in Private Parts where he's learning how to say "W-NNNNN-BC."

 

[wadio]

... there was actual hostility among the hosts.

And what's wrong with that? Listeners tuned in in droves to see whose piano strings would be cut next! The problem is when there's a blank wall between shows. It creates no listener interest and builds no listener loyalty.

 

[reelyreal]

Perhaps then, you'll get your "synergy," but I don't think you can find a lot of examples like the Gallagher example you gave.

WEEI and WBZ-FM in Boston. The continuity throughout the day has brought me back to the station during all dayparts. It feels like one cohesive product. When I'm selling for a station, I prefer to have a complete station to sell to a client rather than a particular show. When you've got isolated shows, it may as well be 4 or 5 little "stations" you're trying to sell. I like to sell "big picture," the whole station. I find it easier, I get bigger buys, and I don't think I'm alone.

 

[TheBigA]

The problem is when there's a blank wall between shows. It creates no listener interest and builds no listener loyalty.

The goal is for the shows themselves to build listener interest and loyalty.

Based on Rush's fan base, it appears to be working just fine. He doesn't have to make small talk with Hannity for the show to work. Typically, TSL for talk shows is huge compared to music shows. I think most listeners aren't motivated what you're talking about.

 

[radioguy39nj]

So now they have Imus, Geraldo, Rush, and Hannity. No other station in NYC has those personalities, and as a result, WABC is the #1 news talk station in town.

Really? CBS' three AMs, all live and local are well ahead of WABC in the ratings. WABC was #15 in the most recent Arbitrons.

 

[TheBigA]

So now they have Imus, Geraldo, Rush, and Hannity. No other station in NYC has those personalities, and as a result, WABC is the #1 news talk station in town.

Really? CBS' three AMs, all live and local are well ahead of WABC in the ratings. WABC was #15 in the most recent Arbitrons.

Last I checked, none of the CBS stations do news talk. I clearly said it's "the #1 NEWS TALK station in town."

 

[wadio]

The problem is when there's a blank wall between shows. It creates no listener interest and builds no listener loyalty.

The goal is for the shows themselves to build listener interest and loyalty.

Right. Great for the show, not necessarily for the station.

Based on Rush's fan base, it appears to be working just fine. He doesn't have to make small talk with Hannity for the show to work. Typically, TSL for talk shows is huge compared to music shows. I think most listeners aren't motivated what you're talking about.

I think you're wrong. It's one of those intangibles that isn't likely to show up in a survey or a focus group, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. WABC is in a slow, steady decline. Why?

 

[TheBigA]

WABC is in a slow, steady decline. Why?

Because just about every AM station that specializes in conservative talk is in decline. Tell me the minute WNYM overtakes them. It has nothing to do with their hosts interacting. WABC can hire a full staff of local hosts, and have them all hold hands and sing Kumbaya together. It won't help their ratings. (But I must admit, it would be funny for a day)

Even beyond the format, both WCBS and WFAN have been losing listeners. Just a couple years ago, all were in the Top 10. Now only WINS is there.