WABC 100% syndicated

[wadio]

... just about every AM station that specializes in conservative talk is in decline.

KFI? Most conservative talk stations use the same syndicated plug 'n play approach. Those that don't do better.

 

[DToTheJ]

...both WCBS and WFAN have been losing listeners. Just a couple years ago, all were in the Top 10. Now only WINS is there.

Yet it's WINS which many are speculating to be one of the three AM stations CBS will be unloading should they acquire another FM stick in NYC...

 

[KFodor]

The 50-kw AM station ranks way down in the overall ratings. Starting a new station to split that shrinking and less-than-desirable demo audience, and whatever ad revenue, might just produce two big losers no matter how well the new challenger was programmed.

I agree. What we're witnessing here is the long, slow death of AM radio. In most markets, like Dallas and DC, there are no AM stations at all in the Top 10. In NYC, you still have WINS. AM radio was given a second lease on life in the early 90s thanks to the explosion of conservative talk. But now, 20 years later, that audience is very old and starting to disappear. It's not being replaced by the next generation. This isn't a programming issue. This is a social issue. AM radio is going away, and spending lots of money hiring live & local talk hosts on those big powerful AMs is not going to reverse the trend. So what Cumulus is doing is taking the combined audience of its big powerful AMs and selling it to advertisers as a package. That seems to be the plan, and the hope is it can keep those stations on the air for a few more years. But live & local talk is not going to be the future of AM, because there really is no future in AM radio.

I do agree with your take on AM radio and fear it's true. However, conservative talk on FM can and is doing well on many stations...in fact, some stations which moved the programming onto a sister FM channel have seen demos lowered for their stations from largely 50 plus to competitive numbers 25-54. So, the notion that conservative talk only appeals to cranky old white men isn't true...

 

[TheBigA]

... just about every AM station that specializes in conservative talk is in decline.

KFI?

KFI has been dropping by the exact same rate as WABC.

Those that don't do better.

Do you have an example?

 

[TheBigA]

However, conservative talk on FM can and is doing well on many stations...in fact, some stations which moved the programming onto a sister FM channel have seen demos lowered for their stations from largely 50 plus to competitive numbers 25-54. So, the notion that conservative talk only appeals to cranky old white men isn't true...

That hasn't been the experience of Cumulus in Dallas and DC. They moved WBAP and WMAL to FM, and haven't seen an improvement. In Buffalo, Entercom's WBEN also expanded to FM, and hasn't improved.

 

[KFodor]

What we're witnessing here is the long, slow death of AM radio.

No, what we're witnessing here is the long, slow death of what was once America's greatest, most listened-to radio station at the hands of a greedy corporation based in Atlanta, a corporation led by inept management with a small-market mentality.

The WABC death spiral began in 1982, when talk replaced the legacy Musicradio 77 format. But at least those talk shows were local and addressed issues of interest to New Yorkers. By laying off a lot of key people, micromanaging everything from corporate headquarters in Atlanta, and setting up a lousy work environment, Cumulus just fed WABC a massive cyanide pill.

Before I hear more of that hackneyed "music is dead on AM" crap, read this: A return to the Musicradio 77 format, complete with oldies and reverb, could bring WABC back to life. That killer 50 kW signal reaches far beyond the signal of WCBS-FM, which receives a lot of interference in New Jersey from short-spaced co-channel WBEB in Philadelphia.

Of course, the greedy, ignorant [EDIT] down in Atlanta would never consider that. For them, programming is an afterthought best left to a satellite dish.

AM radio itself is still alive and well in NYC. CBS is laughing all the way to the bank with WFAN, WINS, and WCBS. The Buckley people didn't do too badly with WOR, either.



[Content removed per Terms of Service.]

You are crazy to think oldies/reverb/jocks would revive WABC. All it would do is bring a large audience of old people to the channel out of the "nostalgia" factor that would be totally unsalable to advertisers.

Sorry to bust your bubble. I respect and revere what WABC accomplished in the 60's. But, those days are over. Many of the jocks have passed to a greater reward. May they rest in peace. And may those still around who want a job can find one at WCBS-FM.

 

[KFodor]

However, conservative talk on FM can and is doing well on many stations...in fact, some stations which moved the programming onto a sister FM channel have seen demos lowered for their stations from largely 50 plus to competitive numbers 25-54. So, the notion that conservative talk only appeals to cranky old white men isn't true...

That hasn't been the experience of Cumulus in Dallas and DC. They moved WBAP and WMAL to FM, and haven't seen an improvement. In Buffalo, Entercom's WBEN also expanded to FM, and hasn't improved.

Works fine at WHIO A/F in Dayton, A. #2 12 plus, #5 and occasionally higher 25-54. Cume has been up for about 6 or 7 years. Must have something to do with the fact that we run local news twice an hour almost 24/7 (and can do 24/7 if needed). Local news is a big component for success with a talk format. And how many stations continue to cut their news departments?

 

[TheBigA]

Local news is a big component for success with a talk format. And how many stations continue to cut their news departments?

New York isn't Dayton. New York has 2 stations that are all news 24/7.

 

[disney fanatic]

Now that CC owns WOR, they should move Rush and Hannity over to WOR and put Huckabee over to WABC. This is going to affect starting in November. How about moving some of the WOR shows over to WABC and put the local shows back in place and forget syndication.

Remember "Bob & Sheri"? I loved that show way better than Howard Stern, Don Imus and Opie & Anthony, but I hope they did very well, and it is heard on WCTW's "The Cat" at 98.5 in Catskill, and I hope this morning show would be coming to New York radio, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Only listens to the podcast edition.

 

[TheBigA]

How about moving some of the WOR shows over to WABC and put the local shows back in place and forget syndication.

Sure, especially since those shows on WOR have been SO successful

 

[radioguy39nj]

Yet it's WINS which many are speculating to be one of the three AM stations CBS will be unloading should they acquire another FM stick in NYC...

As well as WINS does, it is a directional AM. That is why it superserves NYC while WCBS-880 does much better in the suburbs. It's much like top 40 was in NY during the 60s. WMCA with only 5kW was solidly #1 in the five boroughs of NYC, while WABC was the winner in the distant suburbs WMCA couldn't reach.

CBS has some big decisions to make. They're currently maxed out in NY. CBS will never unload 660 or 880, both 50 kW non-D blasters. That leaves directional 1010. CBS will have to unload it if they want to acquire another FM. If CBS does acquire another FM, what happens to WINS? It moves to FM as a news-intensive talk station. WINS' current fast-paced news format designed to superserve NYC probably won't play well on a full-market FM. CBS isn't going to blow up 880, the company's flagship station. The future of FM is not in music formats, it is in spoken word programming, news, talk and sports.

In 2013, I think WFAN will go to FM at 92.3 or 102.7. 660 AM will be the flagship of the new CBS Sports Radio Network.

 

[recto101]

Yet it's WINS which many are speculating to be one of the three AM stations CBS will be unloading should they acquire another FM stick in NYC...

As well as WINS does, it is a directional AM. That is why it superserves NYC while WCBS-880 does much better in the suburbs. It's much like top 40 was in NY during the 60s. WMCA with only 5kW was solidly #1 in the five boroughs of NYC, while WABC was the winner in the distant suburbs WMCA couldn't reach.

CBS has some big decisions to make. They're currently maxed out in NY. CBS will never unload 660 or 880, both 50 kW non-D blasters. That leaves directional 1010. CBS will have to unload it if they want to acquire another FM. If CBS does acquire another FM, what happens to WINS? It moves to FM as a news-intensive talk station. WINS' current fast-paced news format designed to superserve NYC probably won't play well on a full-market FM. CBS isn't going to blow up 880, the company's flagship station. The future of FM is not in music formats, it is in spoken word programming, news, talk and sports.

In 2013, I think WFAN will go to FM at 92.3 or 102.7. 660 AM will be the flagship of the new CBS Sports Radio Network.

If thats true wouldn't WINS have to trade 1010 for 94.7FM in the same way that CBS traded 610 for 106.9FM in San Francisco? I doubt that CBS could ever blow up the 20 minute cycle of WINS simply because it tends to get better ratings in the NYC market. Also what FM station could get a trade or LMA like 880 for a low performing blowtorch FM signal. I know in the NYC books WCBS-FM oldies/classic hits tends to get a 5.0 or a 6.0. Also how could a 20 minute all-news cycle not work in NYC. If a 1 hour all-news cycle can work for KCBS, WTOP , WBBM on the FM why not have the WINS 20 minute cycle work of FM too. Wins could never be a talk station simply because of the audience size for its all-news format.

 

[recto101]

Didn't KFWB move from CBS to KFWB Trust because 980 AM was directional too? and that CBS wanted to keep KCAL9 in the process.

 

[radioguy39nj]

If thats true wouldn't WINS have to trade 1010 for 94.7FM in the same way that CBS traded 610 for 106.9FM in San Francisco? I doubt that CBS could ever blow up the 20 minute cycle of WINS simply because it tends to get better ratings in the NYC market. Also what FM station could get a trade or LMA like 880 for a low performing blowtorch FM signal. I know in the NYC books WCBS-FM oldies/classic hits tends to get a 5.0 or a 6.0. Also how could a 20 minute all-news cycle not work in NYC. If a 1 hour all-news cycle can work for KCBS, WTOP , WBBM on the FM why not have the WINS 20 minute cycle work of FM too. Wins could never be a talk station simply because of the audience size for its all-news format.

94.7 cannot be moved to Manhattan. If CBS bought it, they'd trade it right away for a full market ESB class B FM, similar to what they did in DC when they bought Family's 107.9 and swapped it for 99.1.

WINS' 20-minute news cycle works just fine in NYC....on directional AM 1010. WCBS-880 with 30 minute cycles has always done well in the NYC suburbs, areas WINS doesn't reach. 880 is also CBS' flagship AM station. CBS won't pirate it by putting WINS in its current format on a full B. CBS would put WCBS Newsradio on FM before WINS in its current format.

I'm not suggesting a WINS-FM go all-talk. I'm suggesting a news-intensive talk format, featuring four hour news blocks in AM and PM drive that have a lot of feature stories as well as the usual news, traffic and weather. Talk shows focusing on NY Tri-State area issues would air outisde the news blocks.

 

[TheBigA]

Talk shows focusing on NY Tri-State area issues would air outisde the news blocks.

So what you're suggesting is taking the only AM station in the Top 10, and turning it into WNYM. What a great idea. You see how well local talk works on other frequencies, so you want to spread the failure to other stations.

This has been discussed many times before: There is no "tri-state area." There are lots of self-contained neighborhoods, and they only care about what happens there. The folks in NJ won't sit through talk about problems in New York City schools. The Manhattanites don't care about mayoral races in Suffolk. The folks up in Mount Vernon don't care about crime in Newark. The problem you run into with localized talk is that practically every subject you can think of will lose at least 90% of the audience. They'll sit through :20 news reports about things outside their area, but not a five minute discussion. And between the question and the answer, you're looking at about 5 minutes per topic. That's why it isn't very popular when it's done on stations like WOR, WNYM, and WNYC.

 

[recto101]

If thats true wouldn't WINS have to trade 1010 for 94.7FM in the same way that CBS traded 610 for 106.9FM in San Francisco? I doubt that CBS could ever blow up the 20 minute cycle of WINS simply because it tends to get better ratings in the NYC market. Also what FM station could get a trade or LMA like 880 for a low performing blowtorch FM signal. I know in the NYC books WCBS-FM oldies/classic hits tends to get a 5.0 or a 6.0. Also how could a 20 minute all-news cycle not work in NYC. If a 1 hour all-news cycle can work for KCBS, WTOP , WBBM on the FM why not have the WINS 20 minute cycle work of FM too. Wins could never be a talk station simply because of the audience size for its all-news format.

94.7 cannot be moved to Manhattan. If CBS bought it, they'd trade it right away for a full market ESB class B FM, similar to what they did in DC when they bought Family's 107.9 and swapped it for 99.1.

WINS' 20-minute news cycle works just fine in NYC....on directional AM 1010. WCBS-880 with 30 minute cycles has always done well in the NYC suburbs, areas WINS doesn't reach. 880 is also CBS' flagship AM station. CBS won't pirate it by putting WINS in its current format on a full B. CBS would put WCBS Newsradio on FM before WINS in its current format.

I'm not suggesting a WINS-FM go all-talk. I'm suggesting a news-intensive talk format, featuring four hour news blocks in AM and PM drive that have a lot of feature stories as well as the usual news, traffic and weather. Talk shows focusing on NY Tri-State area issues would air outisde the news blocks.

YOu mean make WINS more like pre-Cumulus KGO? and make WCBS all news go on FM. Look at KFWB 980 AM after the flip to newstalk they tanked and KNX stayed around 2.x for the LA market and KFWB was at 0.x to 1.x and KFWB is in a trust. No No No WINS could never be like old KGO-AM. I do agree at some point WCBS all News and WINS all-news and KNX allnews would have to go to FM like KCBS in San Francisco, WBBM in Chicago, WTOP-FM, WNEW-FM for DC, KOMO in Seattle, KROI in Houston and WYAY in Atlanta did. Why do you think in LA Cumulus is attempting to put all-news in LA in the FM side to go after KNX? Look Cumulus saw that talk radio via KABC-AM was in the toilet but they saw that KNX and KFI had higher ratings over Cumulus LA. If WINS were to flip formats CUmulus will come into play and say hey will replicate WINS formula on FM and put the pressure on WCBS to put its all-news product on FM.

 

[recto101]

Talk shows focusing on NY Tri-State area issues would air outisde the news blocks.

So what you're suggesting is taking the only AM station in the Top 10, and turning it into WNYM. What a great idea. You see how well local talk works on other frequencies, so you want to spread the failure to other stations.

This has been discussed many times before: There is no "tri-state area." There are lots of self-contained neighborhoods, and they only care about what happens there. The folks in NJ won't sit through talk about problems in New York City schools. The Manhattanites don't care about mayoral races in Suffolk. The folks up in Mount Vernon don't care about crime in Newark. The problem you run into with localized talk is that practically every subject you can think of will lose at least 90% of the audience. They'll sit through :20 news reports about things outside their area, but not a five minute discussion. And between the question and the answer, you're looking at about 5 minutes per topic. That's why it isn't very popular when it's done on stations like WOR, WNYM, and WNYC.

In an era where theres facebook do we really need talkradio? I noticed when I asked younger audiences what is talk radio the majority will say "Is that where Rush, Beck and Hannity have their political show" THis is an indication that the younger audiences have bypassed talk radio for facebook chats when it comes to local issues. Although in some cities like San Francisco they listen to Drive time news and talk on NPR station KQED-FM and other programming and talk on non drive hours and yet this NPR station gets a 5.x and 6.x in the San Francisco ratings going head to head with KCBS in that market.


Also wasn't WINS-Am ranked in the top 10 radio stations in the nation that make the highest revenue along with WCBS, WBBM and WTOP. I do know KIIS in LA was the only known music station to make high revenue.

 

[radioguy39nj]

YOu mean make WINS more like pre-Cumulus KGO? and make WCBS all news go on FM. Look at KFWB 980 AM after the flip to newstalk they tanked and KNX stayed around 2.x for the LA market and KFWB was at 0.x to 1.x and KFWB is in a trust.

Why do you think in LA Cumulus is attempting to put all-news in LA in the FM side to go after KNX? Look Cumulus saw that talk radio via KABC-AM was in the toilet but they saw that KNX and KFI had higher ratings over Cumulus LA. If WINS were to flip formats CUmulus will come into play and say hey will replicate WINS formula on FM and put the pressure on WCBS to put its all-news product on FM.

KFWB went mostly syndicated talk. No surprise it tanked. If Cumulus puts all-news on FM against KNX, it will face quite an uphill battle. In Atlanta, Cumulus isn't facing long-established all-news competition so I think they'll do well there.

If WINS moved to FM and became news/talk, Cumulus could try to replicate the WINS formula. However, in NY, they only have one AM and one full-power FM. WABC will no doubt remain the flagship of Cumulus' talk programming. 'PLJ? It bills well but doesn't have high ratings though it's #1 with NJ soccer moms in NJ. If Cumulus put all-news on 95.5, they'd have a very tough time against long-established WCBS.

I raised this issue because it was speculated CBS wants another FM in NY, but is currently maxed out. CBS will never unload 50 kW non-D's 660 and 880. That would leave directional 1010.

 

[OC3]

It's all about the money. The new radio God is the bottom line. Make as much money as you can and the hell with ratings! How long till CBS decides that radio is no longer part of their core business? They are the only one of the big 3 still in radio!

 

[TheBigA]

KFWB went mostly syndicated talk. No surprise it tanked.

KFWB was tanking before the format change, when it was still a local news station.