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WABC ratings collapse
- Thread starter Mily
- Start date
Mark Simone sent out this (half misleading...) email:
"For years WABC was the powerhouse, number one, most listened to talk radio station in America. WOR, for decades was a very, very distant second.
Then in 2013, Clear Channel, the biggest and smartest radio company in America, owner of 850 radio stations, iHeart Radio and the biggest radio stations in NYC (z100, Lite-FM, KTU, Q104, Power 105) bought WOR and began the mission to turn it into the number one talk station.
Last year, Sean Hannity, Rush and I decided to leave WABC and move over to WOR and began to bring up the ratings.
BREAKING: The latest rating book (Nielsen Radio Ratings, 6/9/14) has just been released - we have now tied WABC in overall ratings. The first time WOR has done that in decades.
In the key demo, 25-54, the one used by advertisers, we are now beating WABC by 43%.
In cume audience (total number of listeners in a week) we are now beating WABC by 30%.
In my time period, 10am - noon, we have been beating WABC by over 40%.
Thanks to everyone for all your support!"
"For years WABC was the powerhouse, number one, most listened to talk radio station in America. WOR, for decades was a very, very distant second.
Then in 2013, Clear Channel, the biggest and smartest radio company in America, owner of 850 radio stations, iHeart Radio and the biggest radio stations in NYC (z100, Lite-FM, KTU, Q104, Power 105) bought WOR and began the mission to turn it into the number one talk station.
Last year, Sean Hannity, Rush and I decided to leave WABC and move over to WOR and began to bring up the ratings.
BREAKING: The latest rating book (Nielsen Radio Ratings, 6/9/14) has just been released - we have now tied WABC in overall ratings. The first time WOR has done that in decades.
In the key demo, 25-54, the one used by advertisers, we are now beating WABC by 43%.
In cume audience (total number of listeners in a week) we are now beating WABC by 30%.
In my time period, 10am - noon, we have been beating WABC by over 40%.
Thanks to everyone for all your support!"
Yes, one has a 0.4 share and the other has a 0.7.
43% more than nearly nothing is still nearly nothing.
It's the radio station owners (CC, Cumulus) that are killing their own industry by putting out an atrocious product.
HALF misleading? Almost nothing in that tweet is correct.
For decades WOR's 6+ was just about half WABC's, month after month. WOR's program schedule shifted substantially during that time but that ratio never budged.
the "big three"
Yeah, right.
Apparently both stations are at the bottom of the list in the "key demo" with WABC having only the distinction of beating WADO!
This ratings collapse is actually a very sad story for those of us who love talk radio.
I've always thought that inertia plays a big part in people's listening habits -- they pick a "favorite station" and stick with it no matter what kind of abuse they're dealt by the programmers. Up to a point. If things get too bad they simply stop listening.
That's likely what happened here: Rush and Sean moved from WABC to WOR but their listeners, rather than following them down the dial, simply stopped listening.
The really sad part is that the programming that replaced them on WABC is a whole lot better. Anyone would be hard pressed to make the case that Curtis & Kuby isn't great radio and Savage is certainly not the kind of partisan hack that his predecessor was in that slot.
A major shift in programming takes time to be accurately reflected in the ratings but this is definitely not what I would have expected.
I've always thought that inertia plays a big part in people's listening habits -- they pick a "favorite station" and stick with it no matter what kind of abuse they're dealt by the programmers. Up to a point. If things get too bad they simply stop listening.
That's likely what happened here: Rush and Sean moved from WABC to WOR but their listeners, rather than following them down the dial, simply stopped listening.
The really sad part is that the programming that replaced them on WABC is a whole lot better. Anyone would be hard pressed to make the case that Curtis & Kuby isn't great radio and Savage is certainly not the kind of partisan hack that his predecessor was in that slot.
A major shift in programming takes time to be accurately reflected in the ratings but this is definitely not what I would have expected.
WADO beat WABC in 25-54.
Sorry, then it was WOR that beat WADO. Not exactly something to brag about!
So you're saying Salem is doing a better job?
It really is. I think about all the big-time pros I have known in programming and the pride they took in their craft. The professionalism they showed at the highest level. It's like it never happened. It's really depressing what this format was allowed to turn into.
Partisan clone radio repels people. I loved talkradio. I got into it in my 20's and was fortunate enough over the years to do it on some legendary big sticks around the country. I now hardly listen at all. It's so boring and predictable. And insultingly stupid.
The move probably snapped their listeners out of their trance.
Couldn't agree more! Finally some stimulating conversation that's not completely predictable! I agree with Savage less than half the time, but he's a very interesting personality, unlike most of today's clone hosts.
I agree. Then I turn on these shows and wonder how some of them even get a 1-share.
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Except that C&K and Savage haven't helped WABC ratings one bit.
I was simply agreeing with another poster's sentiment that it's a shame it took so long to get more interesting programming in place. Barn door open. Animals already gone.
What else can they do?
They can tear them down and salt the earth where they were to guarantee they don't grow ever again.
And then maybe, as was depicted in "The Planet of the Apes", mankind will completely destroy itself, basically sending us back to the stone age.
Then, we can hope that:
A) The apes never actually get control, and
B) The world develops more or less along the same lines
Granted Mexico may be to the north and Canada to the south, or something like that, but maybe in a few million years, when talk managers once again get to that fork in the road, they'll choose a different direction than to hire nothing but Limbaugh clones coast to coast and needlessly submarine an entire format.
And maybe the second time around, Hitler will get hit by a bus when he's 20.
I digress.
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U
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AM Radio...
...rip
...rip
Several problems are happening at the same time to hurt Talk Radio.
1) The current crop of Talk hosts are aging. Younger listeners don't want to hear the steady diet of non-stop far-right conservative political talk. There's more to talk about than national politics. But because that's what Rush does, and he's been so successful, that's all you hear on Talk Radio, except for Dave Ramsey and Clark Howard doing family financial talk, on some stations.
2) Most Talk Radio stations are on AM. Young people will listen to AM when they have a product that appeals to them. KNBR San Francisco, home of the Giants baseball team, is currently #1 in that market and doing well 25-54. But in most places, there are almost no AM stations scoring any sort of 25-54 numbers. So that's why AM Talk Radio is filled with "You Kids Get Off My Lawn" older Talk programming.
3) Talk Radio does OK in medium and smaller markets, especially where there's no All-News station. Outside the top ten markets, the station that runs Rush also has the largest news team. If you're in Orlando or San Antonio, you almost have to listen to Rush and Hannity if you want top of the hour news, weather and traffic. But in large markets, Talk Radio loses badly to All-News stations.
4) In many large markets, Talk Radio also loses to the NPR station and All-Sports stations. Many of those stations are on FM while Rush and his clones are on AM. Younger people in more urban markets tune to All Things Considered, Morning Edition, Fresh Air, etc. instead of Hannity, Levin, Savage. And young men are getting their non-music programming from Sports stations, with local talk about local teams, plus Dan Patrick and Jim Rome.
5) Talk Radio has failed to produce any hosts of appeal to younger listeners. Even younger Talk hosts like Andy Dean and Rusty Humphries can sometimes talk about topics of interest to younger listeners. But they MUST have exactly the same political opinions as Rush. They might be 20 or more years younger. But because they're on All-Conservative-All-The-Time stations, they have to agree with Rush on nearly everything.
6) The Hot Talk format has failed even worse than conventional Talk Radio. Let's remember there used to be FM Hot Talk stations in many large markets, with Howard Stern as the morning show. When he left terrestrial radio, the Hot Talk format collapsed, with only a few Hot Talk stations, nearly all in Florida, still functioning. In some cases Sports radio has taken their place. But in medium and local markets, you got nothing.
7) There's also the Sunbelt problem. It seems nobody in the Sunbelt wants to listen to any sort of non-music programming on the radio, not Talk Radio, not NPR, not Sports. WSB is #1 in Atlanta but all that's about it. Cities like Houston, Dallas, Miami and Tampa have no non-music station in the top 15!
1) The current crop of Talk hosts are aging. Younger listeners don't want to hear the steady diet of non-stop far-right conservative political talk. There's more to talk about than national politics. But because that's what Rush does, and he's been so successful, that's all you hear on Talk Radio, except for Dave Ramsey and Clark Howard doing family financial talk, on some stations.
2) Most Talk Radio stations are on AM. Young people will listen to AM when they have a product that appeals to them. KNBR San Francisco, home of the Giants baseball team, is currently #1 in that market and doing well 25-54. But in most places, there are almost no AM stations scoring any sort of 25-54 numbers. So that's why AM Talk Radio is filled with "You Kids Get Off My Lawn" older Talk programming.
3) Talk Radio does OK in medium and smaller markets, especially where there's no All-News station. Outside the top ten markets, the station that runs Rush also has the largest news team. If you're in Orlando or San Antonio, you almost have to listen to Rush and Hannity if you want top of the hour news, weather and traffic. But in large markets, Talk Radio loses badly to All-News stations.
4) In many large markets, Talk Radio also loses to the NPR station and All-Sports stations. Many of those stations are on FM while Rush and his clones are on AM. Younger people in more urban markets tune to All Things Considered, Morning Edition, Fresh Air, etc. instead of Hannity, Levin, Savage. And young men are getting their non-music programming from Sports stations, with local talk about local teams, plus Dan Patrick and Jim Rome.
5) Talk Radio has failed to produce any hosts of appeal to younger listeners. Even younger Talk hosts like Andy Dean and Rusty Humphries can sometimes talk about topics of interest to younger listeners. But they MUST have exactly the same political opinions as Rush. They might be 20 or more years younger. But because they're on All-Conservative-All-The-Time stations, they have to agree with Rush on nearly everything.
6) The Hot Talk format has failed even worse than conventional Talk Radio. Let's remember there used to be FM Hot Talk stations in many large markets, with Howard Stern as the morning show. When he left terrestrial radio, the Hot Talk format collapsed, with only a few Hot Talk stations, nearly all in Florida, still functioning. In some cases Sports radio has taken their place. But in medium and local markets, you got nothing.
7) There's also the Sunbelt problem. It seems nobody in the Sunbelt wants to listen to any sort of non-music programming on the radio, not Talk Radio, not NPR, not Sports. WSB is #1 in Atlanta but all that's about it. Cities like Houston, Dallas, Miami and Tampa have no non-music station in the top 15!
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