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WABC's programming crossroad

There’s a lot that can be read between the lines between Cumulus and Sean Hannity & Rush Limbaugh. In the end what it does is it puts Cumulus in an interesting dilemma in NYC, which is how to replace the sometimes conservative, sometimes libertarian, rarely controversial and always anti-Obama Hannity and the godfather of conservative talk radio, Mr. Limbaugh when it appears both will move across town to WOR.

First, you have a Cumulus property like Mike Huckabee. You could put him in middays against Rush. The problem is you can also stick a fork in your ratings since his show isn’t close to the ratings success either Limbaugh or Hannity once was and is a defibrillation machine away from life support. If he can’t beat Rush now in small markets, do you think he has a prayer in NYC?

You also have Michael Savage, who has been telling anyone who’d listen the slot is his and his alone. The problem, you’d be placing a 70-something in a slot you’d like to make younger and not a step closer to classic 95-104 age demographic. Savage is not only not the answer, he’s going to anger every local salesperson who realize they will have a better chance to sell snow to eskimos than sell this show. The problem radio salespeople have faced in many markets is that it is tough to sell some syndicated shows (ask Merlin Media in Philadelphia, Cumulus in Los Angeles and Clear Channel in some markets – remember Boston’s “Rush Radio?).

For a station like WABC, the monies paid to someone national like Hannity could go to bring in a local host who can discuss local issues. While this may be a non-starter for some Cumulus syndication brass, for a station like WABC it may be the difference between winning and losing their ratings battle with WOR as well as taking their aging cume and turning it a bit younger.

And it’s not just Hannity’s departure. Talk icon Don Imus isn’t getting younger, and he too may have to leave one day soon. And while Rush is also getting older, he is also a Premiere property and another hard sell (see Sandra Fluke). Could WABC in all seriousness place talk hosts in their mid-70’s in drive-time and expect them to relate to listeners who could be the ages of their great or great-grandchildren?

WABC would be wise to consider local, non-conservative talent who can talk New York, knows New York and can become a face for their talk franchise. The future of talk was once staunch, hardcore conservatives. However that future is now in the past. If WABC wants to get younger, they have to appeal to non-white, non-straight, non-Republican listeners. They have some good pieces in place, such as their young-sounding newsman/talk host Noam Laden. Other elements such as Scott Salotto and Collin McShane from the Imus show in the newsroom, and household names Bill Evans weather and Jeff McKay traffic are all good building blocks for their news end. But neither of these voices has been known to do talk, so someone outside of the mainstream will be needed. Maybe Bernard McGuirk or maybe even McShane from in-house? Maybe a surprise from out of the house? It’s time for WABC to get creative, because a Cumulus-mandated syndicated host will not be the answer if they want to remain a talk station. Happily jettison Hannity and Limbaugh. Get younger and New York sounding. Less Obamacare – more mayor’s race and what New Yorkers want to discuss. Could 6 hours of local programming change the talk landscape in NYC? Who knows, what some consultants call “Live and Local” might even help ratings and sales.
 
Very nicely expressed and it makes a lot of sense. Look at KFI-AM in Los Angeles. Lots and lots of "live and local" throughout the day and even on weekends. And they do extremely well.

But the difference is that KFI is owned by Clear Channel and WABC-AM is owned by Cumulus. And Cumulus loves the "everything comes from the HQ in Atlanta" approach meaning they'll look at a station in New York and a station in Chicago and force feed the exact same "syndicated" programming to both stations with no regard whatsoever to what market the station broadcasts in.
 
I would welcome live and local talk in the afternoon on WABC. Rush and Sean still get ratings and along with Michael Savage are probably the top syndicated hosts. If WABC chooses any of the Cumulus hosts to fill Rush's slot, they will suffer. I've been reading Savage may go to PM Drive to replace Hannity. I enjoy Mark Simone on WOR..nice mix of politics,current news and lifestyle features and is very New York oriented. I'm not a big fan of Joan Hamburg or Rita Cosby, but I will listen to them just to get a local show.

I hope WABC goes local at Noon. It will be the first time in 25 years since they had a local host. Of course back in 1988 you had all kinds of views with Joy Behar,Lynn Samuels and Bob Grant. It would be nice to actually enjoy listening to WABC again. The Rush-Sean-Mark Levin broken record has been going on way too long.
 
benale said:
I would welcome live and local talk in the afternoon on WABC.

Me too, but I laugh at how silly the prospect is under the management. New York is probably the only market where a local host can be fired for not having syndication potential.
 
The reality is that whatever Cumulus does with WABC will be the centerpiece for the rest of the Cumulus AM talk stations. It will NOT be local exclusive to NYC. That's simply not their model.
 
I keep hearing this "Limbaugh still gets ratings" line, but I've yet to see anything anywhere that even hints at how he does in key demos, and what kind of profit his show is actually generating. Even with serious revenue coming in, the cost to Premiere and the cost to stations that air him are high.

Is he really doing that well? The stations he airs on sure aren't. Lew Dickey has come out talking about how revenue is down at his talk stations including WABC.

I don't agree with Rush, but I listen to his show because it's compelling. I just think that his time has passed. I don't think the audience for that kind of talk is there in demos that generate revenue.
 
I have not been shy about being a fan of Noam. Why not give a young talent like him a shot? No politics - loose - funny. I think him... or maybe bring in some new talent off the bench from a nearby market
 
The interesting thing about Savage in PM drive is that although syndicated, he has a very NYC sound having grown up in the area. He actually sounds, in some weird way, more local than some of the locals.

I'd love to hear local talk in the afternoon at WABC... but the big question is WHO?
 
Spot-on about Savage's NYC accent, WNTI. Here in NE PA, the times I'd tune in -- usually to DX on 710 -- it was like having a few beers and watching a ball game with my father, voice, accent, views and all.

There was a recent Jay Diamond sighting, on the rival NYC message board. What are the chances for him on WABC ? A hopeful one out of a thousand ?
 
I agree totally that we need someone new on talkradio, Savage is good at times but he is old, my god he plays 50's music on Fridays. WABC did try hard with Joe Crummey but the ratings must have been lousy. Steve mentioned Jay Diamond but he isn't exactly young anymore. Isn't there anyone between 35 and 40 who can do a good talk show?
 
BobSmolarek said:
WABC did try hard with Joe Crummey but the ratings must have been lousy.

I was surprised -- I thought that show would do alright.

A contributing factor might be that they kept pairing Crummy with annoying co-hosts who at best added nothing to the show. In the diary days he might have been given a couple of books to gain traction before tinkering, but now I guess "steering by PPM" is the way it's done. That's not a hopeful sign for the future of radio talk shows, IMO.
 
BobSmolarek said:
Isn't there anyone between 35 and 40 who can do a good talk show?

If so, would they appeal to the current talk radio demo? Would some 55 year old man listen to someone in their 30s? Talk hosts are like music formats. You consider the kind of music that appeals to someone in their 30s vs. someone in their 50s and you start to see the problem. All talk is not the same. So you alienate the current demo, while trying to attract the younger folks who typically don't listen to WABC. How do you do that?
 
I don't think age is the biggest issue. If you look into the age of many top40/CHR morning show members, they are out of the demographic of the format. Yet, they find ways to appeal to people younger than them.

This is what I think the real problem is with talk radio: More controversial hosts get more listeners. But when hosts get really controversial, some advertisers say, "Don't put my commercials on that show."

IMHO, WABC just needs to find the best LOCAL host possible for noon-3pm. It's a way to counter program Rush on WOR, they'll have more local avails to sell, and a local host might not find him/herself on the above mentioned no-commercial list.

Hm. Maybe the most interesting thing WABC could do is find a woman for the time slot. That would be different.
 
radiophiler said:
I don't think age is the biggest issue. If you look into the age of many top40/CHR morning show members, they are out of the demographic of the format. Yet, they find ways to appeal to people younger than them.

They have heritage. Older talking to younger is easier than younger talking to older. Big credibility issue. "You young kids don't know anything." I hear it all the time. Listen to what Gen X people talk about. It's very different than boomers. And boomers have no patience for young talk.

radiophiler said:
IMHO, WABC just needs to find the best LOCAL host possible for noon-3pm.

That's a dead daypart. No money for live local talk at that time. Especially if Rush sucks up the audience across town.
 
reelyreal said:
I keep hearing this "Limbaugh still gets ratings" line, but I've yet to see anything anywhere that even hints at how he does in key demos, and what kind of profit his show is actually generating. Even with serious revenue coming in, the cost to Premiere and the cost to stations that air him are high.

Is he really doing that well? The stations he airs on sure aren't. Lew Dickey has come out talking about how revenue is down at his talk stations including WABC.

I don't agree with Rush, but I listen to his show because it's compelling. I just think that his time has passed. I don't think the audience for that kind of talk is there in demos that generate revenue.

In our market in Ohio, #1 25-54 middays. Still. And when he's not been #1, he's a strong #2 behind our sister station...
 
Would some 55 year old man listen to someone in their 30s?

Yes. I listen to Jon Grayson, John & Ken, Noam Layden, and others who are 20 years younger than I am. Sometimes Grayson, for example, talks about music or pop culture that doesn't interest me particularly -- but hey I'm glad to know what other people are up to. The thing is, these guys aren't trying to pander to the youth market ... they're just doing good talk radio.

In real life I enjoy the company of my son and his family. We share some interests and some humor -- it's not like each generation is from a different planet. Radio's (and advertisers') obsession with age is unfortunate, IMO.
 
Jason Roberts said:
reelyreal said:
I keep hearing this "Limbaugh still gets ratings" line, but I've yet to see anything anywhere that even hints at how he does in key demos, and what kind of profit his show is actually generating. Even with serious revenue coming in, the cost to Premiere and the cost to stations that air him are high.

Is he really doing that well? The stations he airs on sure aren't. Lew Dickey has come out talking about how revenue is down at his talk stations including WABC.

I don't agree with Rush, but I listen to his show because it's compelling. I just think that his time has passed. I don't think the audience for that kind of talk is there in demos that generate revenue.

A couple of questions. What was it before the FM was added in that demo? And how well does it do in that demo on other group stations that airs the show?

In our market in Ohio, #1 25-54 middays. Still. And when he's not been #1, he's a strong #2 behind our sister station...
 
Quote
Would some 55 year old man listen to someone in their 30s?

Yes. I listen to Jon Grayson, John & Ken, Noam Layden, and others who are 20 years younger than I am. Sometimes Grayson, for example, talks about music or pop culture that doesn't interest me particularly -- but hey I'm glad to know what other people are up to. The thing is, these guys aren't trying to pander to the youth market ... they're just doing good talk radio.

John Kobylt is 52 years old and Ken Chiampou is 56.
 
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