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Wake Up KDKA!

L

lash

Guest
So they make the slogan change to Newsradio 1020. All the live people are saying it, yet they don't change their imaging or the website. Wake Up! Again, its just laziness. Like a few more days couldn't have passed so everything could have been in place.

They wonder why the Pirates left?
 
Makes you want to cry, doesn't it, Chris? KDKA has become so sloppy that when I detected those issues, too, I wasn't even surprised. This is the same station that ran a pre-recorded weather forecast two Sunday nights ago that also was giving Saturday's high and Saturday night's low...sigh...

It would be nice to see some meat behind the slogan emerging, too...a new news sounder, additional 'casts, etc. Right now it looks like a poorly applied thin coat of paint...and nothing more.

Think we're heading to a KYW type of format? The station *does* need to be blown up and this could, perhaps, bring in a lower demo of white collar workers.
 
The station has been in serious decline for at least 20 years, but it seems to be in freefall now. The budget is tight, but a lot of the screw-ups have nothing to do with money and everything to do with managerial competence and attention to detail.

I seriously believe their "jump the shark" moment came when they allowed Rob Pratte on their air. Of all the hard working people looking for a break at the suburban stations, they chose that boob. He was bad enough as a DJ, then they kept him as a talk host when the format changed.
 
"I seriously believe their "jump the shark" moment came when they allowed Rob Pratte on their air."

Ya know, I had a lot of different theories on what caused KDKA's demise. I thought it was things like poor promotion, a bad choice of permanent shows on their schedule, losing their #1 ratings getter, hiring a has-been half of a morning comedy team to run things, and other possible explanations. But reading your incredibly insightful opinion shows me the error of my thinkings.

Of course it was having a less-than great swing man on standby for vacation relief shifts. Why didn't the rest of the world realize how important the guy who fills in when people go on vacation really is to the overall success of a station?

It makes me wonder, might Boss Radio actually be a one of the "hard working people looking for a break at the suburban stations" who was rejected in favor of Mr. Pratte?
 
Maybe my old school of thinking and programming doesn't matter anymore. Perhaps listeners don't care either. I've taken such pride in making every station I ever programmed, or owned sound like what the majors sounded like. But as I continue to bust my rear end with our small market station, it makes me wonder why I even stay in it.

In this day and age, the majors (KDKA) are being destroyed, by the lack of attention, creative ideas, and effort of the people in charge of them.

We're talking KDKA here! The first and greatest radio station in the world. My god! Why? There was a day when this station could have played chinese funeral music, and been #1. It should not, EVER be in a freefall from grace. I don't want to hear about FM vs AM either. This is KDKA! Its so depressing!

The GM, and PD should be fired today! And the station needs re-hauled ASAP! It needs to reconnect with Pittsburgh again. Clarke, Radio Realist, Grizzled Vet, Hawk. Any of us blindfolded could have kept this from happening to KDKA.
 
Realist, why must you ruin this and other boards with remarks like these? You are capable of great insights, but frequently stoop to this level...it's sad. Yes, I understand "sarcasm" and have a sense of humor, but really...

To defend the poster you so berate:

1. Weekend hosts can be a station's "farm team" and a sign that a station cares about career path.
2. While I'm not a Rob Pratte fan, working him for 24 or more of 48 weekend hours is unprofessional.
3. We are talking about the fall of a market LEGEND. Successful radio stations -- especially stations like KDKA once was -- get that way by being more than the sum of their parts. When every daypart and hour is treated with care, the station can go beyond a short-lived victory and become legendary.

Your contributions have the potential to create great food for thought, yet the many like the one above stifle it. Maybe you have an "issue" with the poster, but why not rise to the ocassion and discuss the medium. Even if I disagree with you (often the case), this board deserves a little civility.
 
lash said:
We're talking KDKA here! The first and greatest radio station in the world. My god! Why? There was a day when this station could have played chinese funeral music, and been #1. It should not, EVER be in a freefall from grace. I don't want to hear about FM vs AM either. This is KDKA! Its so depressing!
...
The GM, and PD should be fired today! And the station needs re-hauled ASAP! It needs to reconnect with Pittsburgh again. Clarke, Radio Realist, Grizzled Vet, Hawk. Any of us blindfolded could have kept this from happening to KDKA.

Indeed...and there is so much low-hanging fruit that could be harvested to bring the station back to life, including many people who are craving localism and information. The brand name still matters and a clear channel frequency does as well.

Chris, you're not alone in your way of thinking by a long shot. Even if ordinary listeners cannot explain why some stations sound better than others (formatically), there are certain methods of presentation and formatics that are key to what makes radio sound like *radio* as well as *great radio*. These days, sigh, KDKA frequently sounds like neither.
 
GrizzledVet said:
Realist, why must you ruin this and other boards with remarks like these? You are capable of great insights, but frequently stoop to this level...it's sad. Yes, I understand "sarcasm" and have a sense of humor, but really...

To defend the poster you so berate:

1. Weekend hosts can be a station's "farm team" and a sign that a station cares about career path.
2. While I'm not a Rob Pratte fan, working him for 24 or more of 48 weekend hours is unprofessional.
3. We are talking about the fall of a market LEGEND. Successful radio stations -- especially stations like KDKA once was -- get that way by being more than the sum of their parts. When every daypart and hour is treated with care, the station can go beyond a short-lived victory and become legendary.

Your contributions have the potential to create great food for thought, yet the many like the one above stifle it. Maybe you have an "issue" with the poster, but why not rise to the ocassion and discuss the medium. Even if I disagree with you (often the case), this board deserves a little civility.


I'll disagree that the guy is capable of great insights. He just plays the same few notes over and over and has an obvious contempt for the radio business. In his other persona (as George E.) I understand he's very close to being banned from the very friendly Radio Nostalgia Board because of his flaming.
 
Changing to an all-news format would require a considerable outlay of capital both in equipment and people. That is something CBS just isn't going to go for right now.

It would also require a complete change in local management to have any hope of working, but that's a matter for another time.
 
Quote from Mark Mays at the NAB!

Mays predicted that consolidation of radio is not over.

“In order for us to compete, there has to be further consolidation in radio in the next 10 years. We need to be broader in breath and more diversified in programming,”

Oh boy! Just what the business needs! A thousand more radio stations no longer local.
 
"A thousand more radio stations no longer local."

But look at the reasons listed in what you quoted, "We need to be broader in breath and more diversified in programming”.

As bad as consolidation has been for the workers in the radio industry, it has made things better for radio listeners. Consolidation has resulted in far more programming choices for listeners than in the old days. Now that one company can pursue five or six market niches, we don't have to contend with five or six stations all attempting to capture the imaginary "mass market" by being all things to all people.

If it wasn't for Clear Channel being able to thrive by letting each of its stations go after a different audience, we'd see 'DVE, 3WS, The X, and 104.7 all programming more or less the exact same things in order to compete with each other.

As for lack of local content, that's a major issue to people who want to work in radio. But to people who live in Pittsburgh and who only want to be entertained by what they hear on the radio, that's a non-issue. When Joe Listener turns on his radio, all he cares about is whether he likes what he hears. He doesn't care about where what he's listening to is coming from.
 
If it wasn't for Clear Channel being able to thrive by letting each of its stations go after a different audience, we'd see 'DVE, 3WS, The X, and 104.7 all programming more or less the exact same things in order to compete with each other

Factual fallacy of your argument: before 1996, every single one of those stations was programming something different from each other--3WS was 50s/60s/70s oldies, DVE classic/hard rock, The X alternative rock, and 104.7 smooth jazz. In fact, MOST stations weren't going after the same people.

But, I guess you consider any station that plays music with someone talking in between songs "more or less the same things," so you'll discount this in some way as is your wont.
 
before 1996, every single one of those stations was programming something different from each other

I was referring further back in time, to the years before you were born. For example, back in the 1970's, only die-hard radio buffs could tell much difference between most of the rock stations in town.

Now, of course, the die hard radio buffs will all jump on me claiming that isn't correct, that they (the die hard radio buffs, that is) could tell the difference. It seems if I use myself as a "universe of one", I'm wrong. If they use themselves as "universes of one", that only proves that experienced experts know better.

I guess you consider any station that plays music with someone talking in between songs "more or less the same things,"

On one level, it is. But I was referring to the type of music played, not the overall format.
 
As bad as consolidation has been for the workers in the radio industry, it has made things better for radio listeners

Oh, yeah! Have another mega-owner take over a station.....have some VP of something send a list of the 500 song playlist from corporate HQ to the so-called Program Director......and spoon-feed a dumbed-down public that this station's the best thing since sliced white bread. I can listen to most stations in this market and hear songs that can be easily heard on other stations in the same market. The best example is the AC/Hot AC formats. Take WLTJ, Bob, Star and WSHH. Listen to an hour of them or so and tell me you don't hear songs that at least 1 of the other stations plays at some given point. The same can be said for country.....even though there are just 2 stations directly in the market, there are other stations that come into the market's coverage area depending on where you're located at the time.

So, do tell where the listener actually benefits from that. It still boils down to what a station does BESIDES the music that seperates them from their competition. 'DVE may own the classic rock music franchise in Pittsburgh, but they play the same classic rock that pre-BOB played. So what keeps listeners tuned in? Personalities. LOCAL personalities. LOCAL.

And before you come back with arguements that radio listeners AREN'T being spoon-fed, just listen to BOB's television ad. While you're being dazzled with fast-moving graphics, listen to what the announcer's saying. "Bob plays everything he likes, and nothing that he doesn't like." And, without so much as catching a breath, the next line is "BOB 96.9FM, We Play Anything." In less than 5 seconds, BOB has just made a condradiction. One sentence says he's selective, and the next he's not. This is a very good example of dazzling with brilliance AND baffling with...... well, you get the point.

Consolidation has resulted in far more programming choices for listeners than in the old days. Now that one company can pursue five or six market niches, we don't have to contend with five or six stations all attempting to capture the imaginary "mass market" by being all things to all people.
Niche as in what? All 80s....."Jammin' Oldies"......"Outlaw Country" What you probably would have is a station that comes on as one "niche" format, come out of the box with promotions & advertising to the nines, then after 6 months or so go into "cruise control" and just blend in with all of the other stations in the market. The owner then will flip format after a couple of years and diss the "dumped" format just so the owner's hide can be saved somehow. It'll never fall back on the owners, it'll always be something else to blame.

If it wasn't for Clear Channel being able to thrive by letting each of its stations go after a different audience, we'd see 'DVE, 3WS, The X, and 104.7 all programming more or less the exact same things in order to compete with each other.
While the examples you just gave all have different formats (rock, oldies, alternative & news-talk), they all go after the same age demographic. It's just what the listener wants to hear at a particular time that determines the station of their choice. It's totally foolish for a owner to program multiple stations that have similar music choices. While BOB may have increased it's audience over what it was getting as classic rock.....it's not much higher than their 1st full book out (Winter 05-06). And while they may have taken listeners from other owners' stations (3WS, Star and WSHH are down), it has done little, if anything, to boost their sister station.

As for lack of local content, that's a major issue to people who want to work in radio.
I object to a point. There are still listeners who interact with LOCAL personalities. It's up to those in local radio to talk about issues that relate to their audiences. There are still a number of local personalities who talk about local issues, regardless of what topic it is, and gather responses. Okay, most of it seems to be the Steelers, but this IS a region that vicariously lives through its pro football team. If a radio personality's talking Steelers, someone's listening and possibly calling the show. You may not care for the subject, but someone else DOES and WILL call in. It's not just an issue for those in radio. Listeners DO know when a jock's in the station or not. It doesn't have to be just calling in on a topic......someone may want to hear a song, or have questions. Having a jock pick up the phone actually connects the station to a listener.

But to people who live in Pittsburgh and who only want to be entertained by what they hear on the radio, that's a non-issue.But that is NOT representative of ALL of Pittsburgh. You may be in this catagory, but you don't speak for everyone. Not everyone follows your drum beat.

When Joe Listener turns on his radio, all he cares about is whether he likes what he hears. He doesn't care about where what he's listening to is coming from.
Is this opinion or fact? If you think this is fact, please give me your source for this because you're trying to speak for all Pittsburgh radio listeners. I'm sure there would be some listeners out there who disagree with your opinion. While I agree that there are listeners who aren't swayed by how local a station is, and to what extent, there is a certain percentage who still depend on LOCAL stations for many reasons. You may not fall into this catagory, but again not everyone would agree with you.
[/quote]
 
New trends out, and KDKA is flat. WDVE extends its lead. Nice to see the new slogan is on the KDKA website. Has the imaging been changed? Can't get the stream to come up. This just boils down to some poor programming decisions and talent choices.

Glad to also see that KQV remained at its poor position. But after all we need another poor performing all news station.
 
It still boils down to what a station does BESIDES the music that seperates them from their competition.

I don't dispute that. But separating oneself from one's competition is what businesses do for their own benefit. A good jingle package makes the people who work at station feel good about the station. It fills the soul of whoever made the package with a sense of accomplishment and pride, and maybe does something for the ego of the guy who bought the stuff from some jingle house. It doesn't mean much to the listeners, though. Radio pros and radio buffs care about all the sonic parsley that goes beside the music. Radio listeners, for the most part, don't.

"'DVE may own the classic rock music franchise in Pittsburgh, but they play the same classic rock that pre-BOB played. So what keeps listeners tuned in? Personalities. LOCAL personalities. LOCAL."

Wrong. At least about the local part. I won't dispute that personalities played a part in 'DVE beating pre-Bob WRRK. But both stations had local personalities. Both station's air staffs sat behind microphones located in Pittsburgh. WDVE's air staff was better, but not because they were local. They were better because they were simply better. Had the 'DVE airstaff all been voice-tracked, they still would have been a better air staff than pre-Bob WRRK had.

"just listen to BOB's television ad."

But, Bob-FM is carried on WRRK, one of two stations owned by a small, local company. Steel City Media is the opposite of a mega-sized national conglomerate with half a dozen stations in every market in the country. Anyone who wants to argue that limiting ownership of stations to no more than two in any local market should never, ever use Bob-FM as an example of what is wrong with corporate ownership. It's local ownership that inflicted Bob-FM on the Pittsburgh airwaves.

Is this opinion or fact?

In my opinion, it is a fact. It is based on personal interviews with a large cross-section of local people who listen to the radio. You might be familiar with the techniques of focus-groups and market research. That is, after all, how radio professionals decide which 300 songs to play to death on their stations. Such research can also be used to test other things.

The research that some of my former clients paid good money to conduct demonstrated to me that people choose to listen to things on the radio that they like. Now, are you going to dispute that part of what I said? Do you contend that people listen to what they do NOT like, if something that they do like is available?

The research also showed that what matters most is the music. Given a choice between two stations with identical playlists (not similar, not close, but identical playlists), then listeners will be swayed by the sonic parsley and that will move them to one station over another. The music played was the absolute single most important determining factor in what station they'd listen to, period.

But when they were faced with two stations with identical playlists, and they moved to the distant second deciding factor, then the research showed that of all the elements that made a difference in which sonic parsley they liked better, it was how funny and/or entertaining the DJ's were that made the difference, not how local they were. A good local DJ would beat a bad distant DJ, but a good distant DJ would also beat a bad local DJ. Being "local" is one little tiny part of a DJ"s appeal. If that's the only thing a DJ has going for him, he's going to be looking for a new job soon. And if a DJ is really good, then it doesn't matter where his microphone is located.

not everyone would agree with you.

There is no issue on the face of the planet upon which there is 100% agreement. No one could possibly dispute that you could find "someone" who would listen to music they don't like hosted by a DJ that they didn't find entertaining just because that DJ was broadcasting from a studio with the same ZIP code that the listener is in.

But I'll make you this wager. You run a station with a bad music selection and third-rate local disc jockeys, and I'll run a station with a good music selection and first-rate disc jockeys doing their shows 100% voice-tracked from another city. And my station will beat your station into the ground.
 
Re: Wake Up all of you

There is something missing in this discussion of programming philosophy. The key is listener loyalty. You could have the best jocks and the best music, but what good does it do if there is no reason to tune in? And even if people listen, what is their motiviation to put down your call letters on an Arbitron diary?
The personal connection is becoming more and more important, and it is where so many program geniuses come up short. A local anouncer can meet and court his listeners. That's what sets them apart from voice track stations, or the 'Bob/Jack/Hank flavor du jour jockless music shuffle format. If your newsman (or woman) interviews someone about an issue they care about, they will listen to find out what they said. If your p.s.a. director gives some publicity for an event or cause they care about, they will be grateful. If your morning man dee-jay'ed their sister's wedding, they will know the guy, and will feel a relationship. I could put some high school students on the air and have them playing the Bonzo Dog Band, and if they have connections with the local audience, they will clean your heavily researched professionally announced slicker than goose-poop clock.
 
So they make the slogan change to Newsradio 1020. All the live people are saying it, yet they don't change their imaging or the website. Wake Up! Again, its just laziness. Like a few more days couldn't have passed so everything could have been in place.

Chris, this is sadly an example of what happens when you literally flush 76 years of heritage down the crapper by trying to draw listeners away from the call letters that have been not just a local, but national, household name for so many years. It also serves as another example...complacency. I don't think I need to say more in that regard. And these giant ownership clusters want MORE stations in the same market?

Ya know, I fully supported duopoly in the very beginning. "No more than four" was a fair rule that still allowed competition among stations in the market. Back then, the argument was for this business to survive. I think we accomplished that very well. But survival has now given way to pure, unadulterated greed. Ownership clusters today are surviving on a revolving line of borrowed money, rather than paying off the debts that they've accrued by purchasing more stations with money they don't have. That's not survival. That's simply "grab n go".
 
That's 86 years, by the way. Nobody is flushing the call letters. This isn't like they've gone to K-1020 or K-Talk or something and bury the calls in the legal ID.

That callsign is something of a double-edged sword at this point. Yes, it represents heritage, but it also screams "grandpa's station" to a lot of people under 50.

They have bigger problems that what they call themselves.
 
That's 86 years, by the way. Nobody is flushing the call letters. This isn't like they've gone to K-1020 or K-Talk or something and bury the calls in the legal ID.
That callsign is something of a double-edged sword at this point. Yes, it represents heritage, but it also screams "grandpa's station" to a lot of people under 50.
They have bigger problems that what they call themselves.

I didn't realize until after I made the post that I erred in my math. My bad. I think those stigmas can be overcome while maintaining the presence of the call letters. Any radical changes you make at this juncture would have to be heavily promoted.
 
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