WAMO, Hispanic stations - Pittsburgh ethnic composition

[Bob E. Nelson]

Several topics raised in this post -- with some aspects also touching on cultural issues, demography and migration trends as well as radio...1). Is Pittsburgh the largest media market without a Hispanic-targeted radio station?2). Back in the Porky Chedwick era, WAMO/860 pulled signficant shares of the white audience. Among my peers in the 60's it was generally an AM preset on the old car radios along with KQV and later WIXZ. Does the present-day WAMO still pull a sizable non-black audience?After having recently re-read Stephan Lorant's epic ``PITTSBURGH: The Story of an American City'', I was struck by how many so-called ``nationality'' programs were once aired on district radio stations. Likewise, there was a larger market segment of black population years ago in the region than today. Radio, of course, reflects the demographic makeup. So, to the larger issue, what's happened over the past several decades in Pittsburgh to become less diverse? In particular, what factors contribute to its near-negligble Hispanic population? Is there anything more than ``...the mills are gone''?

 

[Radio_Realist]

"1). Is Pittsburgh the largest media market without a Hispanic-targeted radio station?"I don't know if we're the largest, but we have no Hispanic targeted radio stations. But, since both of the Hispanic people who live in Pittsburgh have XM, that's not really a big deal."Does the present-day WAMO still pull a sizable non-black audience?"That's hard to say, since WAMO is now a talk station. But WAMO-FM still attracts lots of White people who like music performed by Black performers. As for why there are so few Hispanics living here, I don't know. As for the other ethnic populations, everybody got old. First generation immigrants identified more with the "old" country than their children and grandchildren. We're as diverse as we ever were, but three generations later, we're also all pretty much assimilated. We're all Americans now.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Another thing that occurred to me after my last post. This is just a single example, but it illustrates what's happened in Pittsburgh. I knew a Polish woman who immigrated to Pittsburgh in the late 1920's. Until she died, she listened to all of the Polish programs on the radio. She was married to a man who's father immigrated from Germany. He sometimes listened to German music programs on the radio. They had five children. None of their children spoke more than a few words of Polish or German (and those few were mostly swear words), and none of their children went out of their way to tune in Polish or German radio shows. One child married a man of Irish heritage, and had three kids. One child married a woman of Italian heritage, and had four kids. One child married a woman of Norwegian heritage, and had no kids. One child married a man of Greek heritage, and had two kids.One child entered the priesthood, and had no kids (at least, none that he knew of).So, that Polish lady and that German gentleman produced five children and nine grandchildren, with a total of six different ethnic groups mixed in. And none of the grandkids listened to radio programs targeted at any specific ethnic group. So you tell me, how does going from two people from two ethnic groups to 14 people with ancestry that includes at least six different ethnic groups make Pittsburgh "less diverse"?

 

[MarkLaRoi]

"Does the present-day WAMO still pull a sizable non-black audience?"That's hard to say, since WAMO is now a talk station. But WAMO-FM still attracts lots of White people who like music performed by Black performers.

How 'bout we clean that up a tad and say people who like Hip-Hop? Black performers do far more styles of music than represented by WAMO so that's a bit...restrictive to say. WAMO of the past had a more varied playlist and that's what attracted a wider audience. They were allowed to, and knew how to, program a certain "feel" to their airwaves and draw people of all types who enjoyed that feel.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"How 'bout we clean that up a tad and say people who like Hip-Hop?"If you prefer politically correct euphemisms, that's fine by me. I mean no disrespect to any person or group of persons when I use plain speech to describe things. As a person of German extraction, I take no offense if someone refers to waltzes as "German" music. Granted, waltzes are generally regarded as Austrian, but we people of German heritage consider Austrians as just as German as the people from Germany. If I refer to a genre of music which has a strong identity with a particular ethnic group as being "whatever" music, I am only trying to be descriptive, not insulting. Personally, most people I know are proud of their particular heritage, and have no problem with having positive things identified as being part of that heritage. I can't imagine any Black person being offended by having the music played on WAMO-FM described as "Black" music, any more than I could imagine a Pole being offended by having polkas referred to as "Polish" music. But, if such a person does exist, I apologize if I have given any offense.

 

[MarkLaRoi]

Lemme be a little clearer on what I meant. Music by Black performers is every type of music there is. Black artists perform Punk, Rock, Country, Jazz and so on. To say music performed by Black performers in this particular context makes it sound like Blacks just do Hip Hop. Hip Hop culture was started by Hispanics and Blacks and is also enjoyed (and performed) by many White performers (dancers, DJs, rappers, etc. To say that Whites listen to WAMO when they want to hear Black performers is like saying there aren't Black performers in the other genres. It also means they'd have to tune out when White performers are played! That's why it just makes better sense to say that the people that tune in to a particular station tune in because they want to hear the music that station plays. I'm not saying you meant anything derogatory by it, I just like to take the opportunities that arise to make our little 'burgh a little more friendly. It's not a politically correct euphemism, it's just more accurate.

 

[Radio_Realist]

The whole point of ethnic or cultural identity for any particular genre of music is not to identify who currently performs the music, it is to identify which ethnic culture first created the music. The genre of music that dominates the airwaves of WAMO-FM, regardless of who currently performs it, was originally created by Black people. That doesn't mean Black people can't perform music from other genres. That doesn't mean people of other cultures cannot also perform music from that genre. One need not be Polish to perform or enjoy a polka. That doesn't mean it is inaccurate to refer to polkas as "Polish music", even if it is a polka being performed by band that consists of two Irishmen, a Norwegian, and a Scot. And though I did say "music performed by Black performers", which wasn't quite as precise a statement as I perhaps should have made, I doubt if anyone, especially the person who asked the question I was answering, misunderstood what I was referring to. "To say that Whites listen to WAMO when they want to hear Black performers is like saying there aren't Black performers in the other genres. It also means they'd have to tune out when White performers are played!"I think perhaps you should look up the definitions of "mountain" and of "molehill", and see if attempting to make the latter into the former is really worth doing.

 

[MarkLaRoi]

Have it your way! Cheers to a nice weekend! ;D

 

[FreddyE1977]

It has been a VERY long time since Pittsburgh was considered to be economically vibrant enough to be an attractive "destination of choice" for most immigrants.You would have to go back to the early 20th. century to find a time when it was attractive to large number of them (that's when we had the huge influx of Polish, Czech, and other East Europeans)Think about it....one of this area's biggest problems is a greying population, and population loss as young people move on to greener pastures to seek employment.(why else would a station like WJAS consistently rank as high as it does?) The reasonsfor this are open to debate. One theory is that under the old steel empire/union model, you had to know somebody and have an inside track to get a decent job. Either that remains true today, or at least that reputationis out there and immigrant groups are aware of it. In my own experience, both I and my children were born out of state, as both my father and I had to leave Pittsburgh to get decent jobs. (why we keep coming back like a yo-yo is another interesting topic for discussion). From what I see, the immigrant group that seems to be making the biggest strides here are South Asian/Indians. I work for a software company that has a large number of people from India. According to the US Census Bureau, the average immigrant in Pittsburgh is from India, has at least a Masters' degree, and earns 95% of the average national wage.Nationwide, the average immigrant is from Mexico, has not finished high-school, and only earns 55% of the average wage.So if there is a silver lining, Pittsburgh is attracting an affluent and highly educated immigrant population, if not in large numbers. At this rate, it seems far more likely that we will see a Hindi Pop format surface someplace, long before Hispanic does.

 

[FreddyE1977]

After having recently re-read Stephan Lorant's epic ``PITTSBURGH: The Story of an American City'', I was struck by how many so-called ``nationality'' programs were once aired on district radio stations. Likewise, there was a larger market segment of black population years ago in the region than today.

You should spend some time on a Saturday twirling around the dial with a decent quality AM radio. There are still a plethora of nationality shows out there....Italian, Irish, Polish, Slovak, etc., probably a more diverse group than you will find in any other city of our size.

 

[MarkLaRoi]

Tune in 730 WPIT AM all afternoon Sundays. Slovene, Ukrainian, Slovak, German and Serbian shows!

 

[Radio_Realist]

"(why we keep coming back like a yo-yo is another interesting topic for discussion)."I've read more than a few scholarly articles about why Pittsburgh has such a hold on its people. Even Pittsburghers who are forced to move elsewhere for economic reasons tend to continue to think of themselves as "Pittsburghers in exile". The more I've thought about one statement in the launch post, the angrier I've gotten about it. How can anyone make any sort of accusation that Pittsburgh is no longer "diverse"? Since when does "diversity" require preserving ethnically "pure" groups of people? That example I used in an earlier post in this thread about the Polish lady who married a German man was not only true, it was also extremely typical of Pittsburgh. In a casual poll of 20 people I encountered in Pittsburgh, there were well over 45 different ethnic and/or racial groups present. It strikes me that if there are over twice as many ethnic and/or racial groups represented than the sample size of people polled, that is incredibly "diverse". "the average immigrant in Pittsburgh" One other thing about "average" immigrants in Pittsburgh. They seem to enjoy simultaneously celebrating their ancestral heritage and adopting local manners and customers. And that's what real diversity is all about. It's not about dividing everyone into little enclaves and ghettos, it's about the old-fashioned ideas of the "melting pot" where the best aspects of all immigrant cultures belnd together to form a new alloy culture that's strong, more vibrant, and just plain better than the sum of its parts. "There are still a plethora of nationality shows out there....Italian, Irish, Polish, Slovak, etc., probably a more diverse group than you will find in any other city of our size."I don't have any Indian ancestry at all, but if I'm ever out and about on Sunday evenings, I'm listening to the Indian music on WDUQ. You don't have to belong to a particular group to enjoy that group's culture.

 

[Pratte4Life]

I agree with you totally Realist. Without digging up the bones of this thread, I think whoever said Pittsburgh wasn't diverse is in the same mindset that had Steven A. Smith say hockey wasn't diverse enough. HUH? Most diverse sport out there. Same thing with Pittsburgh. There is not another place in America that is as distinctly American AS Pittsburgh. It is located right at the confluence of Southern Appalachia (Monongahela), the midwest (Ohio) and the northeast (Allegheny). It is not so big- like NYC or LA- that it cannot relate to a small town. It is not so small- like a small town- that it cannot relate to NYC or LA. There is not a place that is more distinctly American than Pittsburgh.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Without digging up the bones of this thread, I think whoever said Pittsburgh wasn't diverse is in the same mindset that had Steven A. Smith say hockey wasn't diverse enough.

Here's an pertinent point from the executive summary cited in ``BLACK AND WHITE QUALITY OF LIFE IN THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH AND ALLEGHENY COUNTY'' by Ralph L. Bangs, Ph.D. and Jun Hyun Hong, Ph.D. from Pitt's University Center for Social and Urban Research (UCSUR):``Lack of races other than blacks and whites, lack of Hispanics, and lack of recent international immigrants suggest that this [Pittsburgh] urban area has one of the least diversified populations in the U.S.''Focusing on its impact on radio and based upon the Arbitron ``ethnic composition'' metric (which classifies Black and Hispanic), Pittsburgh shows 7.9% Black and N/A for Hispanic. Although I don't have data readily at hand, I think the Black population percentage as reported by Arbitron has declined over the past few decades. Arbitron data for Minneapolis also shows N/A for the Hispanic ethnic composition but it does have a fulltime station (WDGY) targeting the growing Hispanic population in the Twin Cities with a Regional Mexican format. Your point about the wide range of European origins present in the region has merit. However, ``diversity'' in its current meaning generally places those under the hubric of non-Hispanic white.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"by Ralph L. Bangs, Ph.D. and Jun Hyun Hong, Ph.D. from Pitt's University Center for Social and Urban Research"Which proves once again that those in the ivory towers of academia are usually full of sheep dip. "Focusing on its impact on radio and based upon the Arbitron ``ethnic composition'' metric (which classifies Black and Hispanic)," Which proves that Arbitron is also full of sheep dip. "Ethnic" means a hell of a lot more than just Black and that imaginary group, the "Hispanics". All of the diverse population groups of Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world that our ancestors came from are "ethnic" groups. And since you brought it up, since "Hispanic" means "From Spain", and Spain is a country in Europe, how is it that people whose ancestors came from Spain are any more or less ethnic that those whose ancestors came from Italy, Greece, Portugal, Morocco, or any other country on the Mediterranean? "However, ``diversity'' in its current meaning generally places those under the hubric of non-Hispanic white"Which proves that whoever comes up with the current newspeak "definition-of-the-month" is yet another entity that's full of sheep dip. Maybe I"m old-fashioned (OK, there's no "maybe" about it!), but I find the definition of "diverse" and "diversity" in my forty year old Funk & Wagnalls to be perfectly adequate, and I don't have any intention to keep re-defining perfectly good words in order to be on top of whatever is the politically correct "current" definition. "Diverse" means having a wide range of variation. Pittsburgh has a wide range of ethnic variation among it's population, ergo it is "diverse". The fact that we don't have our quota of illegal aliens from south of the border does not mean that we aren't "diverse", no matter what some liberal college professors or the fools who run Arbitron say.

 

[FreddyE1977]

"(why we keep coming back like a yo-yo is another interesting topic for discussion).""the average immigrant in Pittsburgh" One other thing about "average" immigrants in Pittsburgh. They seem to enjoy simultaneously celebrating their ancestral heritage and adopting local manners and customers. And that's what real diversity is all about. It's not about dividing everyone into little enclaves and ghettos, it's about the old-fashioned ideas of the "melting pot" where the best aspects of all immigrant cultures belnd together to form a new alloy culture that's strong, more vibrant, and just plain better than the sum of its parts.

..by "average", I was merely referring to a statistical definition used by the US Census Bureau.Certainly you cannot point to any particular individual and describe him as being "average"Your point is well taken.....I am 90% Irish, but certainly enjoy it when one of my Indian co-workerstakes me out for Chicken Tandoori, or when I stop by the Italian or Polish festival, etc. That is oneof the things that makes Pittsburgh an interesting and vibrant place to be. (if only our economicvitality were equal to our social vitality!)To comment on another post here...I don't think that anyone associated with WAMO would necessarily take offense atbeing described as Pittsburgh's "black" radio station. On the contrary, they have always been extremely proud at the service they have offered to the African-American community, and likewise many in that communityhave strong ties to the station. That does not mean they don't enjoy having a large number of listeners of all races.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"I am 90% Irish"I'm only 25% Irish, except when there's Guinness to be drunk, or they're playing a song by the Cranberries, the Corrs, or U2 on the radio. Then I'm 100% Irish. To me, the perfect example of integration is half Guiness Stout and half Harp Lager in a very tall glass.

 

[davideduardo]

[And since you brought it up, since "Hispanic" means "From Spain", and Spain is a country in Europe, how is it that people whose ancestors came from Spain are any more or less ethnic that those whose ancestors came from Italy, Greece, Portugal, Morocco, or any other country on the Mediterranean?

In the late 70's, new EEO and Civil Rights legislation required some way of quantifying the number of "Latinos" in the US so that compliance in such areas could be monitored.This required creating a new category for the Census, as mandated by the OMB which developed the proposals. Since "Latino" includes persons in this Hemisphere such as Brazilians, who they did nto want, they invented a new term: Hispasnic. While the word was a seldom-used one previously, it was given a new meaning to signify anyone of or from the cultures related to the Spanish language. In other words, it was to break out a "class" of people that had, mostly, been included in "Caucasian" previously. This question on the Census forms is separate from race, and not intended to be an ethnicity, nationality or similar. But the specific and legal definition of Hispanic in the US relates to a language based culture or heritage.Truthfully, the original definition of Hispanic included anyone from the Iberian Peninsula, the Roman province of Hispania... meaning the Portuguese, the Spaniards, the Basque, the Catalonians and even the Celts of NW Spain a half-millenium ago.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"In the late 70's, new EEO and Civil Rights legislation required some way of quantifying the number of "Latinos" in the US so that compliance in such areas could be monitored."There's yet another reason for the popularity of conservative talk radio for listeners who want to hear people speak out against that sort of madness. It cracks me up when I watch Spanish language television programs that feature "Hispanics" who are Scandanavian blondes! The former President of Peru was Japanese! How does a radio programmer attempt to create programming for an artificial ethnic group that includes people whose ancestors came from all over Europe but who stopped in South or Central America before moving on to America, plus Native Americans who only speak Spanish because the Conquistadores forced them to?

 

[davideduardo]

"In the late 70's, new EEO and Civil Rights legislation required some way of quantifying the number of "Latinos" in the US so that compliance in such areas could be monitored."There's yet another reason for the popularity of conservative talk radio for listeners who want to hear people speak out against that sort of madness. It cracks me up when I watch Spanish language television programs that feature "Hispanics" who are Scandanavian blondes! The former President of Peru was Japanese! How does a radio programmer attempt to create programming for an artificial ethnic group that includes people whose ancestors came from all over Europe but who stopped in South or Central America before moving on to America, plus Native Americans who only speak Spanish because the Conquistadores forced them to?

"Hispanic" is a CULTURE, not a race, ethnicity or nationality. The fair-haired girls on Spanish langauge TV are Hispanic. Fujimori, the former president of Peru, is Hispanic and Peruvian, of Japanese ancestry. Hispanics in any one place (Peru or Argentina or Mexico) are unified by the country they are in, not by skin color or ancestry. There is no difference in prgramming in Argentina or Puerto Rico or Mexico or Ecuador or Peru... there are different taste groups (similar to AC, country, pop, rock, etc) and you design a format for a specific age and taste group. There is no more difficulty in finding a format and programming in any Latin American nation than in the US. Hispanics in the US present different problems, as the "country music" of each nation is different. But in AC, pop, reggaetón, etc., the music is universal. Again, ancestry has nothing to do with it.