Want more callers? More FIRST-TIME callers? Better callers?

[Holland Cooke]

this may be my new favorite video on youtube. The honesty of Dave Barber just cracked me up. It almost felt like I was watching a comedy bit from Saturday Night Live. Thank you Holland Cooke for this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9I5HCh5EZg

You're welcome!
Follow his advice, and listeners, and advertisers, will thank YOU.

When I'm NOT traveling -- which seems rare lately -- I hear WPRO's Dave Barber every day.
One of the reasons I introduced him to his boss was his uncanny ability to make the phone ring.

Almost-without-exception: the-more-callers-the-better.
Having lots of callers makes you sound popular.
Like the crowded restaurant everyone tries to get a reservation at.

And doing a "busy" show puts you in-sync-with busy people, high-TSL in-car users.
These are JUST the listeners your local advertisers want to meet.
Every time they get out of the car, they take money out of their pockets.

Lots of callers means a diversity of viewpoints; and geography/gender/age/race.
And wit, or catharsis, depending on topic du jour.

I asked Dave to share his technique; and if you're a host or screener, you will find his candor useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9I5HCh5EZg

If you're a GM or PD, see also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FonOwlry9I

Good afternoon from snowy Saginaw,
Holland Cooke
News/Talk Specialist
McVay Media
www.HollandCooke.com

PS: UTTERLY unrelated, but HILARIOUS: "David Caruso Endless One-Liners:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sarYH0z948

CBS CEO Leslie Moonves played this in his keynote at the recent Consumer Electronics Show.
(http://members.aol.com/cookeh/CES07.html)
If you're a "CSI:Miami" fan, you'll howl.

 

[Slant]

Holland:
Lots of calls doesn't always mean the show is entertaining, right? I have heard shows that have tons of calls, yet, the host is doing nothing more than acting as a traffic cop. To be frank, I think caller intensive shows are soooo hit or miss in pure entertainment value. A bad call can and will kill a show. And nowadays with programmers having the lowest common dominator screening, bad calls constantly get through. NJ101.5 at times seems to really fit this mold. I know Sabo thinks all you need to do is teach formatics and answer the phones, but in my opinion thats not entertaining radio. There is no CREATIVITY behind that model.

I think shows have to have a balance...I think "traditional" talk radio can learn a lot from FM morning shows with a mix of news, framing topics, and booking guests. Also, benchmark features also should be incorporated more into traditional talk radio. I really think there is nothing worst than a host just taking calls on topics he knows will light the phones.

Afterall, does WABC still use those busy counters to monitor the amount of calls coming into the studio? If good radio was just the act of getting someone to call in, I think a lot of us would be rich!

 

[Slant]

also just got done watching that video. When Barber says "the callers are going to be funnier than me"...than why hire Barber in the first place? Is he just being humble? Great radio isn't just about the callers. They are a piece of a bigger equation. The show is and always will be about the host. Otherwise, screw the high paid "talent", hire a producer with an ok voice and teach him how to frame a topic and let him have at it.

Holland, great radio is so much more than what Barber is selling. Am I right?

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "Lots of calls doesn't always mean the show is entertaining, right?"

You raise an important point!

I'd say ALMOST-always.

If a show is one-caller-after-another, it's likely RELEVANT.
If a show is few-or-no-callers, relevance is dubious.

ONE exception?
Yep, the psychic.
The phone rings off the hook...but it's not good "eavesdropping."
It's point-to-point.

I have heard shows that have tons of calls, yet, the host is doing nothing more than acting as a traffic cop.

I'm not sure that the-host-being-a-traffic-cop-for-caller-after-caller is necessarily a bad thing.
"Traffic cop" is a little glass-half-empty.
The glass-half-full way of saying the same thing is that the host should be a provocateur.

I do agree with Dave's suggestion that "callers are king."
I don't think it's over-stating the situation to suggest that the purpose of the host's opinion is to make the phone ring.
As a coaching tool, I use various hosts' airchecks to demonstrate for talent at client stations.
I put up an aircheck clip from Barber's show at http://members.aol.com/cookeh/news.html
(In fact, it's the on-air audition that GOT Dave his WPRO gig, a year ago this month.)

Give a listen.
He may do a better job DEMONSTRATING than I'm doing DESCRIBING this technique.

I think caller intensive shows are soooo hit or miss in pure entertainment value. A bad call can and will kill a show.

I AGREE, on both counts.

Topic is only half the job.
Technique is the other half.
That's what Dave speaks to in that video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9I5HCh5EZg).

Your point about a bad call stalling the show is REAL important.
Screeners are often the unsung heroes of hit shows.
I've met screeners who are "rock stars."
By the time the caller gets on-air, he/she is READY.

NJ101.5 at times seems to really fit this mold...I think "traditional" talk radio can learn a lot from FM morning shows with a mix of news, framing topics, and booking guests.

Two things:

1. Quick disclaimer: NJ101.5's PD is a pal of mine.
That aside...

2. Amen!
And I'm glad you made the point about guests.
Guests CAN be good Talk radio, although there seems to be very little middle ground lately.
Hosts I hear in my travels either over-do guests, making 'em a crutch; or miss opportunites by eschewing guests.
Like callers, guests who are well-chosen and well-prepped can be compelling Talk radio.

And the-best-of-both-worlds is guests-callers-will-want-to-talk-to.
That's great THREE-way radio.

The technique Dave Barber outlines, and demonstrates, is effective TWO-way radio.
What Talk radio needs less-of is I-talk-you-listen ONE-way radio, y'know?

HC
www.HollandCooke.com

 

[Radio_Realist]

Holland, great radio is so much more than what Barber is selling. Am I right?

But isn't this more about what Holland is selling?

 

[Slant]

"What Talk radio needs less-of is I-talk-you-listen ONE-way radio, y'know?"

Thats where you and I completely agree. Rush is the number 1 culprit of this. I liked Rush a lot more when he was doing some more of the gimicky radio stuff including taking more calls. But I guess in Rush's case, he earned the "capital" to pontificate to excess. I just listen a lot less now.

But lets take a show like Michael Savage. His show is poorly produced..poor call screening..occasional BAD guests...but what makes it work is SAVAGE. Mark Masters can hire a producer for 18K and show will still work...because the show is about Savage...not the callers, not the guests.

I really think a show like Glenn Beck, which at times can be terrible, is the future of the spoken word format. He mixes in traditional talk radio elements (relevent content, calls, guests) with traditional FM morning music elements (benchmark segments, contests, sidekicks..etc). It proves that a hot talk produced product can be more than just talking about T&A. That model can be used with relevent content that will appeal to our P1s.

With all the competition out there distracting our audience away from talk radio, we need to be proactive in creating a product that will keep the audience engaged and tuning in. Lets raise the bar more than just getting as many calls on the air as possible.

Always appreciate your point of view Holland.

 

[Holland Cooke]

No good deed goes unpunished.

<< But isn't this more about what Holland is selling? >>

Actually, I'm RENTING it.
But, as the Albert Brooks character said, sarcastically, in "Broadcast News:"
"Let's never forget that WE'RE the story."

To the listener, I'm invisible.
THE TALENT makes the sale that matters.
Connecting with Homer and Marge Diarykeeper is about meeting-them-where-THEY-live.
Doing a show at-the-speed-of THEIR lives, y'know?

Hosts sure do need to be interesting people, approachable and engaging.
And with proper topic and technique, they make that important connection all-the-quicker.

MY HEART WAS POUNDING the first time I set foot on that sacred ground, the field at Fenway Park.
As The Great Jim Rice was taking batting practice, a hitting coach leaned against the cage.
His uniform was the same XL I'd wear. Like me, he once played. Now, he coached.
Barely audible, after each swing Rice took, he'd tell the slugger, "drop your shoulder, babe."

Maybe you DON'T believe that "every great player has a coach."
I'm not sure THAT'S realistic.
But we don't get to vote.
That'll be up to Homer and Marge, right?

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "Always appreciate your point of view Holland. "

Thank you for saying so...and for making this point:

take a show like Michael Savage. His show is poorly produced...poor call screening...occasional BAD guests...but what makes it work is SAVAGE.

AGREE.
It-is-what-it-is.
I've heard it called "mud wrestling."
And what's wrong with that?
If listeners listen, it's working.

But for MOST hosts, making-callers-king plays better odds.

 

[Slant]

I once worked at a major market hot ac station that the PD told me, "you know, its about the music but its really not about the music." meaning, its more about the presentation. I think there is a lesson there for us. If callers are king, than god hope we have nothing but stellar callers....just like if I was a PD at a CHR station that had no jocks... "god I hope the labels give me a choice of music that tests high with my audience."

Top notch air talent is what keeps us tuning in between bad records and bad callers....

There one in the same....

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "Top notch air talent is what keeps us tuning in"

THAT -- and technique -- is now what distinguishes winning stations.

After years of automation/syndication/homogenization/voicetracking/ClearChannelizing...and how all-of-the-above has contributed to eroding Time Spent Listening...stations that now DO THINGS are all-the-more-conspicuous. Lately, station owners I talk to are more receptive to investing in talent. If competing stations are mailing-it-in, you get extra return on that investment.

And every extra effort contributes.
Sweating-the-small-stuff has never mattered more.
Thus the value of technique.

 

[Slant]

I agree, TSL dissapearing is a direct result of the dumbing down of radio...and that's my entire point. I'm glad we are getting back to quality, locally produced programming although I do think there are a few national shows that do it well. It will be an interesting next couple of years as more traditional talk stations pop up on the FM dial and take a more aggressive approach in imaging and presentation. What we need now is some BIG Personalities to emerge.

You know the one thing I have noticed is as national ad buyers begin to spend more money allocating budgets to the internet...they see that this cost per click model is basically a sham and realize at the same time what a GREAT DEAL buy radio is. The cost per point can not be beat by any other medium.

I believe in the next couple of years, we are going to see a resurgence in terrestial radio due to the fact that money will be flowing back into medium and why not? Quality local programming that provides a strong branding platform at a cost that can not be beat. Terrestial radio aint going anywhere. And Holland, the will need a consultant!

 

[evnlee]

Yesterday, Holland Cooke over extended his 'Hyphen' while posting on Radio-Info. Grammar specialists called in to do preliminary examinations stated he can continue to post, with or without his Hyphen.

Fear not. Holland can choose to continue to post without his Hyphen, utilizing other measures such as a comma, a colon, or a tilde.

Experts say that Holland will most likely choose to continue to use his Hyphen, as it is his 'trademark' punctuation. Repeated abuse of the Hyphen can result in ' Disabled Acute Severed Hyphenus ' , or DASH.

For more information, check out Please-read-my-online-newsletter-so-I-can-continue-to-podcast-dot-com

 

[Holland Cooke]

Who'd'a thunk it?

One day in high school, the English teacher asked everyone in the class, "What do you want to be?"
(Occupation, "when you grow up?")

WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, I said "a writer."
And she lit up like a Christmas tree.

I also remember her telling me, "When I read your work, it looks like you wrote-what-you-wrote, then took a salt shaker full of commas, and sprinkled it all over the page."

Having-gotten-the-comma-thing-under-control, we now turn-our-attention-to the trusty hyphen.

But remember:

1. Comma after "and" is optional; and
2. Period/question mark/explanation point go INSIDE close-quotes.

And for newspeople: puh-LEEZ don't forget your verbs.
"PRESIDENT BUSH CALLING ON CONGRESS TO GIVE HIS IRAQ PLAN A CHANCE" isn't a sentence.

And NEVER use a preposition to end a sentence with.

Good morning from snowy Saginaw, and the already-bustling (oops) newsroom at WNEM TV5, Mid-Michigan's News Leader (THEIR hyphen in Mid-Michigan, not mine).

This afternoon, Fargo.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com

 

[evnlee]

Re: Who'd'a thunk it?

One day in high school, the English teacher asked everyone in the class, "What do you want to be?"
(Occupation, "when you grow up?")

WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, I said "a writer."
And she lit up like a Christmas tree.

I also remember her telling me, "When I read your work, it looks like you wrote-what-you-wrote, then took a salt shaker full of commas, and sprinkled it all over the page."

Having-gotten-the-comma-thing-under-control, we now turn-our-attention-to the trusty hyphen.

But remember:

1. Comma after "and" is optional; and
2. Period/question mark/explanation point go INSIDE close-quotes.

And for newspeople: puh-LEEZ don't forget your verbs.
"PRESIDENT BUSH CALLING ON CONGRESS TO GIVE HIS IRAQ PLAN A CHANCE" isn't a sentence.

And NEVER use a preposition to end a sentence with.

Good morning from snowy Saginaw, and the already-bustling (oops) newsroom at WNEM TV5, Mid-Michigan's News Leader (THEIR hyphen in Mid-Michigan, not mine).

This afternoon, Fargo.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com

I'm just teasing ya, Holland

I actually do read your site and newsletter occasionally. I think you should keep using the 'hyphen' as it sets you apart from other bloggers, and could become your 'trademark'.

There used to be a poster here that used ALL CAPS, ALL THE TIME~and he/she/it got razzed too. NO hard feelings ;D

 

[Holland Cooke]

NEW version

That first version was the very FIRST thing I shot with a VERY cool, VERY small camera Santa brought.
I'm getting SLIGHTLY better with Microsoft MovieMaker editing software now.
Here's the NEW version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wZMUbwOrZU

 

[clubhoe4life]

Callers are idiots. They exist solely to give the hosts material to work with.

 

[Holland Cooke]

NO and YES.

Callers are idiots. They exist solely to give the hosts material to work with.

No to the former.
Yes to the latter.

Callers ARE, indeed, the material hosts are working.
Without callers, the host risks sounding like an idiot...or at least "lonely."
Lots-of-callers makes your show sound...popular, y'know?

Good evening from The Ozarks, Springfield MO, stop #3-of-4 on an epic two-week radio road trip,
HC
www.HollandCooke.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVvnUyUp1_s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Imecvi3XeE

 

[clubhoe4life]

Maybe you should listen to KFI. You know, the #1 News/Talk station in the United States. Bill Handel NEVER takes calls. John and Ken hardly ever take calls. John Ziegler might take calls for 1 hour of a 3 hour show. People tune in for the host's personality- what they have to say about stuff and their reaction to stuff. No one cares aout what Bob in Riverside has to say illegal immigration.

 

[Holland Cooke]

No one cares aout what Bob in Riverside has to say illegal immigration.

Quite a statement.
How do you know that?

Seen YouTube?
MySpace?
If KFI -- or any other station -- is smart, they're working both-of-the-above like a one-armed bandit.

How about what-we're-doing HERE?
And blogs?
"Social media," y'know?

Stick a push-pin in the timeline about a year ago, when American Idol beat The Grammy Awards in TV ratings.
Viewers chose the "real people" singers over the "professional" singers.

We-talk-you-listen radio -- of ANY format, music or non-music -- is a dinosaur in the age of iPod, Internet, wireless-phones-that-do-nine-things, etc.

cnn.com did 50 million video downloads last month.
YouTube did 100 million TODAY.

BEFORE Santa loaded up his sleigh last month, Apple had sold 70 million + iPods.
Radio's all excited that 1000 stations are broadcasting in HD Radio, right?
Can anyone say, for certain, that there are 1000 HD Radio RECEIVERS in use?

Smart radio stations hold-a-mirror-up-to listeners.
Same-old-same-old is REAL old now.

 

[smedge2006]

For once, I am forced to agree with Holland Cooke, at least in part.

I don't think call screening has become too loose. If anything, it's too tight. The inability of the crank to get through with a zinger to deflate the host's pomposity, even if it's "You Stink!" and a hangup, or the guy with the phony voice to derail the well-prepared "topic" has contributed to the cult of the all-knowing, all-seeing Ozlike fountain-of-political-truth host.

Sure callers can be dull. But some are hilarious. Some went on to be hosts (Lionel, for example). Some consultants in the past have warned against regular callers, warning that the show can sound like a private club. How is that any different from the average morning show that has the same 3-5 people on every day?
Yes to regular callers. Yes to chronic callers! Why turn away free talent? In fact, I think "Caller Radio" would be a great format for a cash-strapped station. Hire a board op to keep the obscenities off the air, but don't use his voice. Instead, have a Deus ex Machina-like "Jack" voice record a few standard liners to intro the callers on and off the air. Callers stay on until they curse, commit slander, or until someone else calls up. That someone else can "challenge" the previous caller and the two can battle together until they or the board op decides they've had enough.