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WARM--ANYONE INTERESTED IN BRINGING WARMLAND BACK????

I find it amazing that 550 WHLM has been off the air for so long already. Great dial spot .... decent signal ....

But what with WQIN Lykens, WMBT Shenandoah, WMIM Mount Carmel, WISL Shamokin, WHLM 550 and, now, probably, WPAM 1450 on the terminal list, bringing back something from the Sixties on AM would be like trying to restore a derelict 1962 Ford Galaxie or some other gas-pig and expecting it to be your faithful main transportation.

Any WARM renaissance -- if it's music oriented -- is going to mandate volunteers and automation. It will be a 'come grow with us' concept.

Remember now, when WKBW came back on as Oldies? The late Jackson Armstrong V/T a great show from his home in (iIrc) Tennessee. 'KB never even cracked a 1.0 in the book -- with a signal that reaches more beaches and states than WARM ever did. And besides, all of their listeners were grandparents.

The DMCA extortionists effectively have stomped many Internet nostlagia stations into the ground. So for the time being, a WARM web-stream site, with balloons and old surveys and pictures seems to be just as prohibitive an attempt to reach people in their 60s as running a 5000-watt directional regional is.

Being an old DXer and listener and DJ, of course I love the idea of having radio fun again. But I think you'll see the Dodgers successfully moving back to Brooklyn first.
 
I'll keep everyone posted on the progress...long shot?? sure is....expensive...I'm sure......better to try than to just say it wont work!!!

Again, thanks for everyone's input!!!

Charlie
 
Just something to consider BEFORE any investing takes place. What's to keep it from becoming stagnant? Hear me out...

Let's say that the best 15 years of WARM's lifespan was from 1958 to 1973. What made it truly exciting? I think most people would say the personalities and the music. But what made the music so exciting all those years? The simple fact that WARM was always giving you something NEW to listen to. You were hearing the lastest hits. And that playlist changed little by little week after week, and radically year after year. Imagine if you had unscoped airchecks of the station -- a couple of full hours of regular programming from each year. The 1962 tape (the Four Seasons and Elvis) would sound radically different from the 1967 tape (the Beatles and the Mamas and Papas). But that's the beauty of Top 40 radio. It was always changing.

That's not what you'd be bringing back. Let's say the stars aligned, you found the cash, Phil fixed the transmitter, and you were off and running. What's to keep the "new" WARM from just being another tired oldies outlet? 2012 -- here's "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" by the Beatles for the 3000th time. 2017 -- here's "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" by the Beatles for the 3468th time.

Plus, you're probably not only nostalgic for the tunes, but for the overall presentation as well. That includes the news and the commercials. Again, WARM comes back. Sure you might get the "warm fuzzies" digging the songs and the boss jocks again. But you'll be shocked right back into reality every time there's a commercial break. Because you WON'T be hearing spots for the Globe Store or Rocky Glenn Park. Nope. You'll be hearing ads for Re-Max, Best Buy and (heaven forbid) Wal-Mart. And what about the newscasts. Updates on the Vietnam War or Agnes Flood Recovery? Nope. How about the presidential race between Obama and Romney. Welcome back to 2012.

Just something to consider. Maybe the Shangri-La's were right when they sang "You can never go home anymore." Because it probably WON'T feel the same or be as good as you remember it. Except for a few diehard devotees, the novelty of this whole "revival" would probably wear thin after a few months -- maybe a year. I personally think oldies sound "cool" on AM radio but I could see myself turning the dial after a few weeks instead of enduring yet another spin of "Baby Love."

We can't even have a good oldies outlet on FM in this town. And by "good" I mean live jocks, a playlist with more than 1000 songs, and the acknowledgement of music pre-1963. How would you expect an AM outlet to survive?

I wish you all the best of luck. Just remember to take off those rose-colored glasses before you write a check.
 
oldies4ever said:
I'll keep everyone posted on the progress...long shot?? sure is....expensive...I'm sure......better to try than to just say it wont work!!!

Again, thanks for everyone's input!!!

Charlie
Click to expand...

OMG! Better to try it than to just say it won't work??? Hey, how can you in good conscience entice people into investing their life saving into something risky? Bet with your head, not over it.
 
Good points, mevansrock- I see what you are saying. We had a good oldies station sign on up here in NY--98.9, and check them out as they stream. No repitition. Jocks that know the music. Great library. and they are doing well. The way oldies should be done. Heck, there's a lot more music out there than the "tested" and "safe" tunes, you just need the stones to put it on the air. Thanks for your input.

Charlie ;D
 
It seems efforts to "restore" WARM are based on what a wonderful station it was in a special place and time. Great personalities, good promotions, a strong news effort and the hits of the day. It was one of those rare stations that I couldn't wait to hear when I got in signal range. Now when I am in the area I don't even put 590 or any other local AM on.

For those wishing to bring back WARM there is quite a bit more to consider than the transmitter and ground system like:

1. It is on AM. It will have an older audeice and be a hard sell. Try finding good sales people to hit the streets for a stand alone AM. Chances are you will not be getting any national or agency business. That leaves local direct mom and pops. How much money do they have to throw around in this economy?

2. Costs. Music licensing fees, payroll and land taxes, health benefits, 401 K's, paper for the copier, heat and electricity bills, legal fees, snow removal, lawn mowing and other ground maintenance, a receptionist/traffic person, a person to handle quaterly FCC reports and EEO initiatives, maintaining the public file, web site creation and maintenance, streaming and related issues, Computers (acuisition, maintaining and repairs), a traffic and billing software system, consoles and some sort of digital production and automation system, a station vehicle, tent and banners for events, a reliable generator etc.

3. Did I mention AM?

Good luck
 
Folks, an Oldies station can excell in ratings;just look to Philly and see one that just celebrated it's 25th anniversary in format and has it's highest ratings both 6+(ppm uses 6+, diary markets 12+) and in demo ever in the frequency history. But the success comes through thoughtful evolution, a committment to ever-shifting audience research, constant promotion and successful revenue delivery. Believe me or don't, I live it every day.
I also agree that AM stations can sound good. The problem is more like if you had a nice restaurant but the demographics and psycho-graphics of the neighborhood shifted and now the 'old regulars" don't feel as comfortable going there.The food is still good. You can offer more specials, market to those that are likely targets, but if they don't like driving on the street, they are WAY less likely to go there.Getting people to put AM ON is the challenge.
In this case, "the neighborhood" is the AM dial. What else is there? WILK and WEJL/WBAX offer their product on FM. They had to... to remain viable. Bad for AM but smart decisions for their operation.Music on AM? Please point us to one with a ratings or revenue story. Revenue generation, sadly, show me a success story that doesn't deliver some decent adult 25-54 numbers( again, frustrating, but true. I live it but am saddenned by it's shortsightedness.) A WARM revival that didn't (at minimum) contain a good translator covering Scranton and Wilkes-Barre would be unlikely.
But...if just covering a lease payment, power and utilities bills, basic maintainence and licensing fees are the objective, it MAY be possible to survive.
But... if making money, paying people a decent living wage, providing health insurance to staff, satisfying the bank requirements and sending enough OIBDA(operating income before depreciation and amortization) to keep "corporate" happy is the ultimate goal, then this is a long shot.

But..."Dream big Dreams"( it's actually an Obama quote).Heck...make it work, and maybe those of us that " WARMly" remember the vision you are chasing can be a part of it all some time in the future.I still hope to work in "Corporate radio" a few more years, but this seems like a cool way to keep busy when that comes to an end for me.
 
I was there, doing mid-days among other things when WARM did it's crash and burn. Our ratings were climbing when we finally went back to the music that made WARM what it was..Prior, we were playing obscure album cuts interspersed with "safe" currents and oldies. In fact, when the plug was pulled on us being a full service AM to being a joke of a talk station, (One caller on a 3 hour show does not a good talk show make) we were a close number 3 in the Arbitrends, and close enough to number two that we had a chance of knocking off Rock 107. But our problems began long before that. It was sales. We started hiring long legged mini-skirted blonde bimbos who wouldn't know AM if they tripped over it. (Once I was having a cigarette in the Foyer and one of the long legged blondes, who had been with us 6 months, asked me what room that was with the big window..I had to explain that was WARM's main studio. The push was on to try to get Magic as the dominant Susquehanna station, which wasn't happening as WARM's ratings were almost double Magic's (8.5 vs 4.5) Sales people were selling WARM clients on the "benefits" of Magic..Magic got the promotion budget, so much so, that we didn't have a budget for a 50th anniversary celebration. Not even a trade promotion. So IF WARM were to rise out of the ashes, the big problem isn't the electric bill, or ASCAP and BMI, (guaranteed to take a chunk of profits), or even pay and benefits..It's finding qualified sales people who know AM..And there aren't many left.
 
Right on Norm. But beyond the sales people available today issue there is the general problem of AM. Doing a three or five year plan - can anyone honestly believe that there will be more people listening to the AM band three years from now, let along five years from now? With the exception of certain ethinic groups that are under represented on the FM dial, or not represented at all I cannot see any hope for growth.

If the goal of the exercise to bring WARM back is to provide a hobby for a group of wealthy people who want to "play" radio fine. But as an actual business model ???
 
Dear Friends...

I just found a lovingly-restored 62 Galaxie XL for $27,500.00

WARM can be run profitably. The business model is:

  • Frugal
  • Smart
  • Family Friendly
  • Community Oriented
  • Entertaining, Evocative, Excellent PRO-gramming

I have a studio....To start, I'll volunteer to do mornings. Last time I did, I had a 13-Share.

When it's fair, pay me 25% of the gross based on 3x:60's per hour from 6-9 AM, and pick up the ISDN call costs.

See You on the Radio....

J-D

Jon-David Wells
The Wells Report
660 AM The Answer
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
 
jondavidvox said:
Dear Friends...

I just found a lovingly-restored 62 Galaxie XL for $27,500.00

WARM can be run profitably. The business model is:

  • Frugal
  • Smart
  • Family Friendly
  • Community Oriented
  • Entertaining, Evocative, Excellent PRO-gramming

I have a studio....To start, I'll volunteer to do mornings. Last time I did, I had a 13-Share.

When it's fair, pay me 25% of the gross based on 3x:60's per hour from 6-9 AM, and pick up the ISDN call costs.

See You on the Radio....

J-D

Jon-David Wells
The Wells Report
660 AM The Answer
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
Click to expand...
Great stuff. I would gladly do morning news inserts. To the community oriented point, a remote/prize van will be needed:
http://www.americandreamcars.com/1959chevyapachepaneltrk0807.htm
 
Jon David -- I think that 1280 Berwick, a few mountains north of us, sold for less than $27.000. That figure is quite an investment for a car, Meat.
(The chief vehicle here is another Ford thing .... a 1992 Topaz .... have it for four years now .... $450 at that Jonestown auction ..... just turned over 100,000 miles, lol)

The volunteer offer is as necessry as it is whimsical. I've heard two internet Oldies stations the past year which have become steady listener fare -- no more *radio* for this household until some lessons are learned by the tone-deaf schmucks who run that industry.
Point is, these internet stations seem to be staffed by retirees, and those with disabilities or outside compensation. None of the internet Oldies stations I hear plays commercials for any revenue.
That work-force .... that laid-off work force .... is likely to provide the major staffing of any WARM renaissance.

Just a few thoughts: Are their any major-sports teams in the S/WB area which are undermarketed? A station cannot get more local than that.

And is Vince Sweeney still looking for a gig? That guy's voice and name should draw in a few folks in the desired demo.
 
Charlie,

Cumulus has the same format on WEOK 1390 here in Poughkeepise. How will you run WARM from the Hudson Valley? The only way to buy WARM and bring it back would be if who ever put in money takes a air shift. You will then also still need a automation sytem so to fill the open air shifts.
 
Roger-- as far as being in NY--- i'm everywhere!! We are approaching this a step at a time; I find thats a great way to start, going by past experience. As I have said, when I get enough info I will let everyone know and see what the consensus is. After hearing 98.9 here in po-town, I'm thinking that True oldies is nothing in comparison. We'd have to decide what to use in that case, when/if we get to that point...Please keep this thread going--I'd like everyone's opinion, pro/ con!!!!

Thanks again!!
Charlie
 
Yes 98.9 here in Poughkeepise, NY is run very nice by small broadcasting company. But you have to understand people do want to work for free. You are not going to get people to pay ads on a AM station. FM killed AM. I-POD and I-Phones are killing FM and HD radio.
 
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