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WARM--ANYONE INTERESTED IN BRINGING WARMLAND BACK????
- Thread starter oldies4ever
- Start date
That's the owner that nobody wants.
And Joe Nardone and the All Stars still get together occassionally.
I don't know if they're the original members.
And Joe Nardone and the All Stars still get together occassionally.
I don't know if they're the original members.
Great idea, would love to get Joe Nardone up, I have contacted him via facebook!!! Thanks
Charlie
Charlie
trixter said:
Maybe an owner with vision could buy the station and turn it into something productive. It does not have to be a commercial operation. I realize they're smaller stations, but look at how Bob Bittner has done with WJIB Brookline (Boston) MA and WJTO Bath ME! Maybe it could become an NPR or other non-comm. operation. Has anyone looked at WGVS/WGVU out of Grands Rapids and Muskegon, Michigan? Both of those stations are owned by the Grand Valley State University and run a NON-COMMERCIAL OLDIES format!
http://www.wgvu.org/realoldies/
klutch00 said:
Sure, there are limited exceptions to every rule! But...in general, soaking money into an AM outlet is starting out at a disadvantage especially in a dominant FM market. I have 2 examples (and there are many more.) I read an article not too long ago stating that some of the car manufacturers are only going to include FM radios (along with other popular electronics) on many models produced in the next couple of years. Also, FM receivers are now inclusive on many brands of cellphones. Where's AM? Those 2 examples eliminate the listening AM audience because of the source! I know that there are owners that still operate AM radio in the black today but their revenue is down substantially from years past and always wonder if next year will be the year to make a major change.
OK, you mentioned non-commercial. The future of AM radio may depend on this scenario. If you can get organizations to subsidize the cost of operating the station, that would be very helpful. Also grants could be available as well.
In summary, NO, I would not want to invest ANY money to upstart a commercial AM radio station. You are just asking for trouble and grief "after the new wears off!"
That is precisely why I suggested it! The two stations owned by Bob Bittner hold a fundraiser (I believe) once a year. This model has been in place for both stations since about 2007.trixter said:
http://www.wjib740.com/index.html
http://www.wjto.com/
WGVU/WGVS have been 'going at it' since 2009.
trixter said:
Which is why alternative income sources need to be considered and implemented! Moreover, said operations are way, way overvalued for what they are! The asking prices are astronomical! IMNSHO the decimal point could probably be moved one spot to the left!
oldies4ever said:
This weekend is "WABC Rewound". It can be heard at this link: http://rewoundradio.com/
The first ten years it was actually carried live on WABC, but has become an internet affair, with thousands of listeners every year.
I think that if the August 10th celebration of the Best Station on the Planet were to be carried live on the internet, this year and annually, it could have similar success.
Whuddya say? Let's do it!
Driving through Clarks Summit a few months ago, listening to NEPA radio, I thought about this thread. I always liked the down-to earth-attitude of the NEPA board. Good people with a passion for radio, exemplified by this thread and bringing back what was once a great radio station.
Could a house painter and former radio dog from Buffalo add his 29 cents to the conversation?
After reading all the posts to date and considering points 'for' and 'against,' I have to say that bringing WARM back on 590 would be an uphill slog in mud. The "typewriter factory" analogy made earlier in the thread summarized the situation. It's 2013. The Class of '73 is around 58 years old. They're ingrained with hearin' the hits on FM. Same with the Class of '68. The Class of '83 thinks, "AM is that scratchy sounding radio with all the static... where the talk stations are."
Now don't get me wrong. If you're part of a small market, local, stand alone AM without an FM translator that's making money and successful, I'm not knocking your skills or success. I'm just sayin'... resurrecting the Mighty 590 wouldn't be a day at the beach, and even if it was, there's no telling when a storm would well-up and take your blanket, beer and chips out to sea. Realistically, the competition for listeners and add dollars is far more intense, with Cumulus and Entercom cutting each other's throat for the last add dollar on the table. There's no low-hanging fruit.
Cumulus isn't likely to sell the station, and if by chance it agreed to sell, you can bet the Dickey clan would want to squeeze blood from a rock and charge top dollar for it. Any bank or lender would want the buyer(s) to put up equity and at least 30% down. Add to this the reality of the the cost of bringing the 590 transmitter and towers up to spec, and the risk becomes overwhelming. The station becomes a money pit. We haven't even added the cost of good sales people, secretaries, production, news and air staff. I'm calculating a $400 hundred annual payroll, at minimum, plus health insurance and taxes. It ain't cheap... even with volunteers, who, let's be frank, would after a while, understandably tire of the radio fantasy and would want to be paid. Grits ain't groceries. You can't pay your mortgage with sunshine and smiles.
It's easier to acquire an FM. One tall stick on a patch of land. Six bays, a main and an aux, a good studio and automation system, and build out from there. Make some money, add to the staff. Make some more money, bonus the staff. Make even more money, and in ten years, retire and sell the joint at a profit.
This is what it eventually comes down to: What's your exit strategy once you actually have possession of the facility and license? You buy a once great AM, restore it, maybe make it work... and then some corporate cluster owner with a faltering FM looks at your success and says, "they're getting a 4 share, let's do what they're doing and put it on our FM." Bam! You're done like a dinner in a microwave. I've seen this happen in Buffalo. It's how KB went down the tubes in the 80s. Very sad. And we all know what happened when Entercom tried to bring KB back. At best, a 1.6 share 12+ and no salable demos. None. Even with some very recognizable names on the air. Fail.
Sorry to say, listeners are fickle. Years ago they proved this, gravitating from AM to FM; now they're moving to the Internet and iPods. So in ten years, what you'd be left with is smoke. A hulking, five thousand watt, once great AM radio station that was revived and then died a second death. What would it be worth? Half of what you paid for it? Maybe if you're lucky. There are better ways to make a living. Sorry. I know it flies in the face of some people's hopes and dreams; but it's 2013, not 1968. FM is getting beat up. AM would get slaughtered. It's an age of Smart phones, not Underwoods, Royals or Smith-Coronas.
Could a house painter and former radio dog from Buffalo add his 29 cents to the conversation?
After reading all the posts to date and considering points 'for' and 'against,' I have to say that bringing WARM back on 590 would be an uphill slog in mud. The "typewriter factory" analogy made earlier in the thread summarized the situation. It's 2013. The Class of '73 is around 58 years old. They're ingrained with hearin' the hits on FM. Same with the Class of '68. The Class of '83 thinks, "AM is that scratchy sounding radio with all the static... where the talk stations are."
Now don't get me wrong. If you're part of a small market, local, stand alone AM without an FM translator that's making money and successful, I'm not knocking your skills or success. I'm just sayin'... resurrecting the Mighty 590 wouldn't be a day at the beach, and even if it was, there's no telling when a storm would well-up and take your blanket, beer and chips out to sea. Realistically, the competition for listeners and add dollars is far more intense, with Cumulus and Entercom cutting each other's throat for the last add dollar on the table. There's no low-hanging fruit.
Cumulus isn't likely to sell the station, and if by chance it agreed to sell, you can bet the Dickey clan would want to squeeze blood from a rock and charge top dollar for it. Any bank or lender would want the buyer(s) to put up equity and at least 30% down. Add to this the reality of the the cost of bringing the 590 transmitter and towers up to spec, and the risk becomes overwhelming. The station becomes a money pit. We haven't even added the cost of good sales people, secretaries, production, news and air staff. I'm calculating a $400 hundred annual payroll, at minimum, plus health insurance and taxes. It ain't cheap... even with volunteers, who, let's be frank, would after a while, understandably tire of the radio fantasy and would want to be paid. Grits ain't groceries. You can't pay your mortgage with sunshine and smiles.
It's easier to acquire an FM. One tall stick on a patch of land. Six bays, a main and an aux, a good studio and automation system, and build out from there. Make some money, add to the staff. Make some more money, bonus the staff. Make even more money, and in ten years, retire and sell the joint at a profit.
This is what it eventually comes down to: What's your exit strategy once you actually have possession of the facility and license? You buy a once great AM, restore it, maybe make it work... and then some corporate cluster owner with a faltering FM looks at your success and says, "they're getting a 4 share, let's do what they're doing and put it on our FM." Bam! You're done like a dinner in a microwave. I've seen this happen in Buffalo. It's how KB went down the tubes in the 80s. Very sad. And we all know what happened when Entercom tried to bring KB back. At best, a 1.6 share 12+ and no salable demos. None. Even with some very recognizable names on the air. Fail.
Sorry to say, listeners are fickle. Years ago they proved this, gravitating from AM to FM; now they're moving to the Internet and iPods. So in ten years, what you'd be left with is smoke. A hulking, five thousand watt, once great AM radio station that was revived and then died a second death. What would it be worth? Half of what you paid for it? Maybe if you're lucky. There are better ways to make a living. Sorry. I know it flies in the face of some people's hopes and dreams; but it's 2013, not 1968. FM is getting beat up. AM would get slaughtered. It's an age of Smart phones, not Underwoods, Royals or Smith-Coronas.
Correction, that should read "...the competition for listeners and ad dollars..." and "...calculating a $400 thousand annual payroll..." Corrections brought to you by... memories of the clunking, clattering AP teletype machine. Another vestige of the past, not likely to return.
Elegantly stated, Radknowski. I must say.
Oh wow! We've hit 20 pages! Roger will be having fits!
Oh wow! We've hit 20 pages! Roger will be having fits!
Well well well! What have we here?
WARM: A Radio Powerhouse that was more than Music
http://www.timesleader.com/news/oth...:-A-radio-powerhouse-that-was-more-than-music
WARM: A Radio Powerhouse that was more than Music
http://www.timesleader.com/news/oth...:-A-radio-powerhouse-that-was-more-than-music
Enjoy:
WARM 590 Scranton PA 1961 George Gilbert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be04PmUOa4Y
It's WARM off the presses! ;D
WARM 590 Scranton PA 1961 George Gilbert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be04PmUOa4Y
It's WARM off the presses! ;D
Roger said:
What broad are we talking about? What does she look like? Has she got a sister?
That aircheck was AWESOME. I could just picture myself smoking a Camel while "Blue Tango" by Bill Black's Combo (that was the sax/organ instrumental right before George's show ended by the way) plays on the car radio of my brand new/used 1300 hundred dollar Cadillac! Too bad we have to keep an eye on those darn Cubans!
Sadly though, it only proves why you can NEVER bring WARM back. A couple of things I noticed. First of all, what you heard was NOT a one or two man operation. George and Harry weren't the only guys putting that show together. Even if George ran his own board, there was probably an engineer, assistant or somebody else in the room along for the ride. And I'm sure Harry wasn't alone in the newsroom. Everything had its own bed, tons of jingles and chimes and SFX. And it was friggin' tight! You can see why these jocks only did 3 or 4 hour shifts. So even though WARM's billing was probably through the roof, I could only imagine that their payroll was pretty hefty too. These guys were radio PROS, not minimum wage kiddies or interns. But back then, radio, TV and print were IT. WARM could afford to pay all those guys because a huge chunk of every business' ad dollars were going towards radio. No internet, no social media, etc. That's not the case these days. Radio gets a MUCH SMALLER slice of the pie because it's NOT the biggest game in town anymore. Volunteer jocks working for pizzas or veterans coming back for peanuts would not be able to keep up that "on air momentum" for any long period of time.
Second, the music. That air check was from January 1961. You heard what was HOT in January 1961. BUDDY KNOX, JACKIE WILSON and BILL BLACK -- three cuts that are NEVER heard on an oldies station today (they SHOULD be, they all charted, but you don't hear them). It's a time capsule. I said this in a previous post, but if you really wanted WARM to be what it was, it would have to be TOP 40 -- that's what it WAS. Oldies is a whole different monster. If you made it oldies, you'd be bouncing from ELVIS in 1960, the BEATLES in 1966, some random Motown hit from 1965, and maybe some curious one-hit wonder for "spice" from 1970. Again -- NOT THE SAME THING.
Finally, all you'd have is the jocks and the jingles, You'd lose the news and commercials from years ago. Because you wouldn't be talking about Cuba, and you wouldn't be getting ad dollars from Gennessee and Camel Cigarettes.
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but a ressurected WARM wouldn't be nearly as good as that 15 minute aircheck. Unless of course, someone has days and days worth of unscoped air-check reels with the music intact rotting away in some basement somewhere.
All that being said though, if that's how this station sounded all the time, I can see why you guys miss it. Here's a question, when did it STOP being that good? My first memories of WARM were probably circa 1976-1977 (when I was five or six).
Sadly though, it only proves why you can NEVER bring WARM back. A couple of things I noticed. First of all, what you heard was NOT a one or two man operation. George and Harry weren't the only guys putting that show together. Even if George ran his own board, there was probably an engineer, assistant or somebody else in the room along for the ride. And I'm sure Harry wasn't alone in the newsroom. Everything had its own bed, tons of jingles and chimes and SFX. And it was friggin' tight! You can see why these jocks only did 3 or 4 hour shifts. So even though WARM's billing was probably through the roof, I could only imagine that their payroll was pretty hefty too. These guys were radio PROS, not minimum wage kiddies or interns. But back then, radio, TV and print were IT. WARM could afford to pay all those guys because a huge chunk of every business' ad dollars were going towards radio. No internet, no social media, etc. That's not the case these days. Radio gets a MUCH SMALLER slice of the pie because it's NOT the biggest game in town anymore. Volunteer jocks working for pizzas or veterans coming back for peanuts would not be able to keep up that "on air momentum" for any long period of time.
Second, the music. That air check was from January 1961. You heard what was HOT in January 1961. BUDDY KNOX, JACKIE WILSON and BILL BLACK -- three cuts that are NEVER heard on an oldies station today (they SHOULD be, they all charted, but you don't hear them). It's a time capsule. I said this in a previous post, but if you really wanted WARM to be what it was, it would have to be TOP 40 -- that's what it WAS. Oldies is a whole different monster. If you made it oldies, you'd be bouncing from ELVIS in 1960, the BEATLES in 1966, some random Motown hit from 1965, and maybe some curious one-hit wonder for "spice" from 1970. Again -- NOT THE SAME THING.
Finally, all you'd have is the jocks and the jingles, You'd lose the news and commercials from years ago. Because you wouldn't be talking about Cuba, and you wouldn't be getting ad dollars from Gennessee and Camel Cigarettes.
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but a ressurected WARM wouldn't be nearly as good as that 15 minute aircheck. Unless of course, someone has days and days worth of unscoped air-check reels with the music intact rotting away in some basement somewhere.
All that being said though, if that's how this station sounded all the time, I can see why you guys miss it. Here's a question, when did it STOP being that good? My first memories of WARM were probably circa 1976-1977 (when I was five or six).
Sorry youtube decided to block the WARM aircheck in the US Japan Germany and a few other countries. I edited the Buddy Knox song and we will see if that passes the copyright cops at youtube. Here is the new link.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFJkV-Med6s
That's astonishing!
Can't have all those Buddy Knox fanz downloading a freebie from 1961!
What I remember most about 1961 was the Mad magazine cover showing that even if you turn it upside down, it was 1961.
Can't have all those Buddy Knox fanz downloading a freebie from 1961!
What I remember most about 1961 was the Mad magazine cover showing that even if you turn it upside down, it was 1961.
So, nobody even noticed that WARM was off the air?
I noticed it, but you got to post it before I could.
Saw it mentioned by Fybush. BUT! the STA only says they will "...operate WARM with parameter at variance with license and with reduced power..." not off the air?
Lightning damage.
Lightning damage.
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