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BaltimoreJack
Guest
One of the cheapest investments any tower owner can afford is to give $100 a year to a near-by farmer for a trip around the field with his tractor & bush-hog.joep said:
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Damn goats, especially pygmy goats like to stand on top of things like cars, fence posts, ATU's, etc...
I vote for sheep. Or if you need security, a herd of bison.
I vote for sheep. Or if you need security, a herd of bison.
It's probably a bit easier to clean up after the farmer and tractor than the goats,sheep and bison. Watch out fer them cow pies 'n Buffalo chips!boiseengineer said:
For years there was a fellow who came around each fall to 'harvest' birch twigs for use in making Christmas wreaths. He and his crew would lop the tops and ends off of all the small white birch trees that were growing on the 960 site. He'd always drop off a few completed wreaths in time for Christmas.
Don't know what ever happened to him, but he quit coming around. From the looks of the 960 site, he sure hasn't been there in a while.
Don't know what ever happened to him, but he quit coming around. From the looks of the 960 site, he sure hasn't been there in a while.
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BaltimoreJack
Guest
I vote for the bison!boiseengineer said:
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BaltimoreJack
Guest
With all our talk about a renewed, re-vitalized WARM, here's just another reason why any such re-try would be dangerous. Radio-Info's main page, along with Inside Radio are reporting that Nassau Broadcasting has sold it's soul to Goldman-Sachs in return for debt restructuring. Nassau gives up an 85% stake to keep the wolves from the door. This is the same scenario that Route 81 Radio ended up with when everything was said and done. It was an 80/20 split between the lenders & Lloyd Roach. Once Lloyd was pushed out, the bankers owned it all, and didn't want any of it. Now with Goldman-Sachs owning 85% of Nassau, can you imagine how hard they are going to squeeze that operation to get their money?? What does this mean in relation to a new WARM? As discussed the new owner would need serious financing. First off, there's the money for purchase. Then money to rebuild the transmitter plant, money for equipment, and a line of credit so you can operate for 12-18 months while the business is trying to build into a going concern. So how long will the lenders wait until they tell you either sorry, we're calling the loan and you have to pay up, or sorry, we need a 75-90% stake to keep you floating. And once the lenders have a controlling stake, all your good efforts won't count for zip. It's only going to be about cash.
As to the Nassau situation, that was a long time coming. However, one must wonder how much of a drain Nassau's various AM stations were on the entire operation. Would the company be in better shape now (with more cash on hand) had they not blown wads of that cash trying to get blood from the AM stone for the last decade?
Which brings us full circle to the viability question for WARM. If Citadel and their deep pockets and entrenched infrastructure deems WARM not worthy of further investment, I kind of give a fair amount of weight to that decision.
After all, they already own it. The only thing missing is investment in the plant to get it back up to 70s era speed and start selling. Yet, Citadel balks at spending the cash.
My entire point in this thread has been that Citadel is the BEST positioned of ANYONE to make something of WARM. If Citadel isn't trying, could it be...maybe...that there simply isn't anything financially viable to make?
Which brings us full circle to the viability question for WARM. If Citadel and their deep pockets and entrenched infrastructure deems WARM not worthy of further investment, I kind of give a fair amount of weight to that decision.
After all, they already own it. The only thing missing is investment in the plant to get it back up to 70s era speed and start selling. Yet, Citadel balks at spending the cash.
My entire point in this thread has been that Citadel is the BEST positioned of ANYONE to make something of WARM. If Citadel isn't trying, could it be...maybe...that there simply isn't anything financially viable to make?
jeffwoehrle said:
Jeff, you are absolutely correct that being the current licensee, Citadel is undoubtedly in the best position to do the things necessary to get WARM back up and running as a viable enterprise... assuming they had two things: any cash at all... and any brains at all.
From their perspective, it's the lack of cash. I'm guessing you are aware of their stock crash from $22.70 to $0.0l (yes, a penny) before getting delisted in March. With no investment money coming in... and big notes looming... they're scrimping for every cent--except, of course, for Farid's salary. So even though as the owner the required investment--a few hundred grand in infrastructure & a modest monthly operational budget--is small potatoes, they can't afford it.
Brains? Hey, guys, this just isn't that difficult a business. It's not like running GM or Microsoft, for cryin' out loud.
FWIW, there actually are radio companies--not necessarily well-known radio companies--that consciously chose not to participate in the stupidity that raged through these past dozen years... and as a result are flush with cash. And could easily afford to do what needs to be done to revitalize a station like WARM. Or a company like Citadel.
And when all this shakes out, perhaps one of those companies will rear its head in Scranton.
It's not impossible.
amfmxm said:
I'll bet a bag of Wise potato chips that neither Citadel nor any other operator will invest money in WARM. Citadel's financial straits are new. WARM's problems are not. Rebuilding the WARM plant to 70s style performance made no more sense for Citadel when they had access to wads of cash than it does now when they don't.
To modify the old saying, the best way to make a small fortune with WARM is to start with a large fortune.
Citadel's best hope is that somebody floats in off the street with some lottery winnings who is absolutely sure that songs by the Drifters need a few more spins on AM in NEPA. Unload that puppy and stand back! Another bag of Wise chips is riding on that operator eventually coming to their senses as the writing on the wall gains sharper focus.
I may be way off base on this, but a decade or so of WARM history and thousands of virtually insolvent AM stations make a pretty good case: Without 50 kilowatts, you are in for one hell of an uphill fight. A fight that Citadel clearly has the wisdom to avoid.
I'm still waitin' for HD Radio on 590!
Is anyone streaming their HD audio, aside from WVIA?
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BaltimoreJack
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Jeff...jeffwoehrle said:
While I tend to agree with you on this, here's a little food for thought. Citadel and the other big operators tend to make a great deal of use, and put a lot of stock into various sales, economic & programming consultants. I know most people here will howl at the use of consultants, but it's not always a bad thing. Someone taking a dispassionate look at an operation to uncover weaknesses and strengths can be a very good thing. But, one of the problems here, is that while many of today's well-respected consultants..and I'm thinking of guys like Mike Mc Vey or Guy Zapoleon here..tend to do a pretty good job with FM properties. They don't do so well with Class-A FMs or badly damaged AMs. If you take a look at what WARM has attempted over the time of Citadel's ownership, they were pretty much all on the recommendations of consultants. Almost always a consultant will suggest a plan of action, and in essence, there will be a certain amount of cost involved. Invariably, when confronted with an expense, upper management then thanks the consultant for their services, pays their bill and files the report, never to be seen again. Now while I agree with you that WARM has long gone past the point of no return, I would say that had Citadel hired a decent PD..and let him create something (whatever it might have been) on WARM several years ago, we might have seen a different outcome. I would not have spent all the money on consultants. You could have hired a decent PD and a minimal staff for what they have paid to the consultants over the years. Now they might have been able to get WARM to contribute a little money to the bottom line in this fashion. But, (an here again I agree with you) no matter what the brightest lights at Citadel could have done, there never would have been enough return to make WARM anything more than just an A-league ballplayer.
Jack,
Ah, the dreaded consultants! Consultants were born from the CYA mentality that larger radio groups tend to cultivate. "Hey, don't blame me! The consultant said it was the way to go!" You are correct that 'back in the day' a risk would have been taken and a hit or a miss duly noted. No more. Good or bad? Dunno. Maybe if it took a little more to be a consultant than a trip to the print shop for 500 business cards...
Another thing I failed to mention earlier: My opinion on the future of WARM could be entirely different if WARM were a 5kw non-directional station with a pristine technical plant. My R.I.P. pronouncements regarding WARM are based on what WARM really is...a money pit. Not only do we have a big upfront cost to fix the problems, there will always be a big recurring expense to keep the facility problem-free. In my mind, I see that big annual (and initial) expense as sufficient barrier to future viability. At some point, trips to the repair shop become absurd. WARM has reached the point of no return much like that old Taurus with 250,000 miles on the clock.
In that, WARM is not alone. Most AM stations in this country face a similar mountain of obstacles to profitability. Yet, many owners (groups and individuals) continue to press on, continue to lose money and continue to pine for the good old days.
Just saw on the news that the federal government's deficit for this year is rapidly approaching two TRILLION dollars. Borrowing will now account for nearly fifty cents of every dollar the government spends.
With mentality like this moving like a wave over America, one can understand why so many folks see nothing at all wrong with continuing to pour money on WARM like it grows on trees.
Sad. :'(
Ah, the dreaded consultants! Consultants were born from the CYA mentality that larger radio groups tend to cultivate. "Hey, don't blame me! The consultant said it was the way to go!" You are correct that 'back in the day' a risk would have been taken and a hit or a miss duly noted. No more. Good or bad? Dunno. Maybe if it took a little more to be a consultant than a trip to the print shop for 500 business cards...
Another thing I failed to mention earlier: My opinion on the future of WARM could be entirely different if WARM were a 5kw non-directional station with a pristine technical plant. My R.I.P. pronouncements regarding WARM are based on what WARM really is...a money pit. Not only do we have a big upfront cost to fix the problems, there will always be a big recurring expense to keep the facility problem-free. In my mind, I see that big annual (and initial) expense as sufficient barrier to future viability. At some point, trips to the repair shop become absurd. WARM has reached the point of no return much like that old Taurus with 250,000 miles on the clock.
In that, WARM is not alone. Most AM stations in this country face a similar mountain of obstacles to profitability. Yet, many owners (groups and individuals) continue to press on, continue to lose money and continue to pine for the good old days.
Just saw on the news that the federal government's deficit for this year is rapidly approaching two TRILLION dollars. Borrowing will now account for nearly fifty cents of every dollar the government spends.
With mentality like this moving like a wave over America, one can understand why so many folks see nothing at all wrong with continuing to pour money on WARM like it grows on trees.
Sad. :'(
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BaltimoreJack
Guest
While I don't want to divert this off into a political rant, take a look at a blog written by a guy named Jim Kunstler. I can't really give the name, only because there's a naughty word in the blog title and the automatic sensor will dump it. It's called ClusterF-_-kNation. While I don't subscribe to all of this guy's theories,
he's a well-educated man who makes some interesting points about where we are going if we don't stop spending & borrowing money now. It makes for some rather interesting reading.
he's a well-educated man who makes some interesting points about where we are going if we don't stop spending & borrowing money now. It makes for some rather interesting reading.
jeffwoehrle said:
Jeff. You're dead wrong.
I'm not going to re-hash my previous post, but if you start with a well-maintained array, the biggest operating costs are the light bill and mowing the lawn.
What big recurring expense are you anticipating? Tower bulbs? FM towers have bulbs too.
joep said:
joep,
WARM isn't well maintained. If AMs are such a piece of cake, how did it get to that point?
The reason is cost. If we are just looking on a tower-by-tower comparison, WARM's facility maintenance costs five times as much as a comparable FM. Five times. Yet this AM would do well to muster one fifth of average FM market revenue. And we all know that there is a lot more to AM than steel.
In any event, that hardware is capital. Capital costs money. Most AM stations have not been returning their cost of capital for decades. The deterioration of the economy has illuminated AM's deficiencies brightly. .
jeffwoehrle said:
Jeff.... you're my friend here, but you're missing my point. You still talk of a big recurring expense, but you haven't explained exactly what that you feel that expense IS.
Your original assertion was: "Not only do we have a big upfront cost to fix the problems, there will always be a big recurring expense to keep the facility problem-free."
While I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of your assertion, I strongly disagree with the second part. Yes, it will take a $izable capital expense to re-guy and paint all five sticks... most likely replace lighting fixtures... install new ground systems (if indeed they have deteriorated to the point where efficiency is no longer acceptable)... rebuild contactors... replace bad ATU components, replace bad sample lines, etc, etc, etc. And when it's all said and done, a partial proof will probably be required. HOWEVER, this expense will be amortized over a period of many years.
Five times the cost of an FM site? Not quite. FM sites are usually mountaintop sites, where mother nature is a lot less forgiving. Even so, maintenance of actual tower steel isn't all that expensive, nor does it need to be performed that often. There's no pressurized transmission line to worry about, and AM sticks handle lightning rather well. By far, the biggest expense at most higher power transmitter sites, FM or AM, is usually the electric bill.
My point is that once this initial work has been completed, the annual expense to maintain said facility is reasonable -- provided that the maintenance is actually performed. The biggest enemy of an array is neglect -- mother nature is usually anxious to take back a site that nobody cares about, as is the case with 590. Yes, AMs ARE a piece of cake.... but apparently Citadel doesn't like that type of cake. And to be truthful, that property had long since deteriorated when Citadel purchased it... so we can't blame them completely for the mess.
590 Scranton is no different from 980 Wilkes-Barre, 1070 Sunbury, 1390 State College, or any of the other 10KW or less directional stations that are doing modestly well AND are well maintained.
joep,
We agree that the initial expense will be high, and amortization of that cost is how I look at it. (Numbers guy in me...sorry...) I've not seen the WARM site in years, so all I know about its current state is from what I read here and have heard from others. The origins of the thread (or maybe a different thread...been too long now) were centered around the viability of WARM and other similarly situated properties. I can't justify the expense. Apparently, neither could Citadel or the previous owner(s) for that matter.
All stations, AM and FM, need a certain degree of maintenance. When all is said and done, the costs associated with keeping WARM's transmission system operating properly dwarfs (can I say 'dwarf' nowadays?) FMs with comparable coverage. For a station that would (at best) offer returns nearly comparable to a class A FM. On a good day.
My point is that the scale tips because of the cost versus anticipated (or possible) return. If this station were FM, nobody would balk about spending either A) the lesser amount of money it would take to refurbish an FM, or B) an equal amount of money to refurbish an FM that would be capable of giving a return.
The cost structure of AM facilities is out of whack with the return one can expect. Hence, the delayed (or forgotten) maintenance and throwaway formats. Not just on WARM, but on thousands of under performing AMs nationwide.
The first time I saw WARM's tower site it gave me chills. Okay, it was in February. ;D Seriously, it is impressive as hell and I was in awe. It has taken many years to pummel that wonderment out of me and make me focus on the checking account instead.
No way in hell would I pay to refurbish WARM. There may be someone out there with Route 81 mentality who is eager to give it a go. Best of luck to them. If that happens, my bet is that we will all be having this same discussion a year or three from now.
We agree that the initial expense will be high, and amortization of that cost is how I look at it. (Numbers guy in me...sorry...)
I've not seen the WARM site in years, so all I know about its current state is from what I read here and have heard from others. The origins of the thread (or maybe a different thread...been too long now) were centered around the viability of WARM and other similarly situated properties. I can't justify the expense. Apparently, neither could Citadel or the previous owner(s) for that matter.All stations, AM and FM, need a certain degree of maintenance. When all is said and done, the costs associated with keeping WARM's transmission system operating properly dwarfs (can I say 'dwarf' nowadays?) FMs with comparable coverage. For a station that would (at best) offer returns nearly comparable to a class A FM. On a good day.
My point is that the scale tips because of the cost versus anticipated (or possible) return. If this station were FM, nobody would balk about spending either A) the lesser amount of money it would take to refurbish an FM, or B) an equal amount of money to refurbish an FM that would be capable of giving a return.
The cost structure of AM facilities is out of whack with the return one can expect. Hence, the delayed (or forgotten) maintenance and throwaway formats. Not just on WARM, but on thousands of under performing AMs nationwide.
The first time I saw WARM's tower site it gave me chills. Okay, it was in February. ;D Seriously, it is impressive as hell and I was in awe. It has taken many years to pummel that wonderment out of me and make me focus on the checking account instead.
No way in hell would I pay to refurbish WARM. There may be someone out there with Route 81 mentality who is eager to give it a go. Best of luck to them. If that happens, my bet is that we will all be having this same discussion a year or three from now.
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