WARM Gone?

[plooker]

When I was a snot nosed jock working in this market in the 1980s.. Ronnie took me under his wing. Sometimes I'd tag along w/ him to various transmitter sites(to learn how everything worked in my quest to be a PD), and have personally witnessed him taking apart a toaster to fix an AM transmitter. I also used to hang out w/ Him in Dallas at the FM he put on the air up there. And your right, Tuna was his main sustenance. Any transmitter site where Rons been (Penobscott, Bald Mtn.. etc..) Follow the empty tuna cans and you'll fine Ronnie.. He was fearless. I once described him as a shorter version of Conan the Barbarian(ever see the size of that dudes arms.)
How about the time in the 1990s hes coming home at nite, hits a deer with his Harley, and bent up his front handlebars pretty badly. Ronnie picks up the bike like a toy, straightens the bars and rides home... Unbeleivable.
And yes, he is an IFR rated pilot, once owned his own plane (I'm thinking a Cherokee, but not 100% sure) Ronnie is a legend, and hands down THE most talented engineer I've ever had the pleasure to meet.. He could fix WARM in his sleep if given the money. I believe there is a major issue of the ground system there as well, and replacing all those radials would be unbelievably expensive at todays price of copper. Whatever the problem, give the station to Ronnie. He'll have it back working in a few days, guaranteed!

 

[jeffwoehrle]

I think Citadel is getting a bad rap here. Not that it isn't deserved, but not putting endless money into a losing operation is probably one of the better ways to survive...particularly during the current economic situation.

WARM's problems are beyond its frayed ground screen and toasted transmitter. The market moved on. Circumstances in some markets allow big AM stations to bill big and rate big. WARM is none of those things. The real estate has probably long been the biggest asset to WARM (assuming it's still owned). If not owned, the tower lease payments will have to reflect the market reality...a reality that a poor performing AM station cannot touch.

WARM was legendary. Sadly, that legend is long, long gone.

 

[BaltimoreJack]

I think Citadel is getting a bad rap here. Not that it isn't deserved, but not putting endless money into a losing operation is probably one of the better ways to survive...particularly during the current economic situation.

WARM's problems are beyond its frayed ground screen and toasted transmitter. The market moved on. Circumstances in some markets allow big AM stations to bill big and rate big. WARM is none of those things. The real estate has probably long been the biggest asset to WARM (assuming it's still owned). If not owned, the tower lease payments will have to reflect the market reality...a reality that a poor performing AM station cannot touch.

WARM was legendary. Sadly, that legend is long, long gone.

You're quite right. Citadel's a crappy company, but there are plenty of crappy radio companies out there who are over-leveraged and buried in debt. There are any number of scenarios that folks have put forth as to why WARM got scuttled, but I agree with you, the market moved on. Farther up Route 81 (the road) in Endicott, NY sits WENE-1430. In
the 1960's & 70's it was as strong as WARM and gave birth to some very major talents, including the infamous Greaseman. Today, the station sits in a closet at Clear Channel's Binghamton cluster, spouting syndicated sports, and barely gets enough ratings to even know it's still on. Same story for WHEN in Syracuse, WENY in Elmira and there are hundreds of stories out there of a similar nature. Their individual markets moved on. Nothing and Nobody is #1 forever. WARM was a great station and now it's gone. Sad, but it's a part of life.

 

[boiseengineer]

Gates BC-5HA audio driver + flames = pile of dead no longer available 2N40322's = OFF AIR
Anybody got some???

 

[Tom Wells]

Google turned up a little over one full page of sources who list 2N40322s.
Whether or not they have them is another question.
Even if they don't, transistor substitution is seldom impossible.
If it's an audio driver, not the audio final power amp, it should be possible to make it work somehow.
Audio power comes cheap these days. It's not like it HAS to be exactly the same audio driver or amp to modulate RF.

Last fall, shortly after a trip from Chicago to Fargo and back, I discovered the axle housing on my 1965 car was cracked clean through.
I sourced one 40 miles away and put it in within 3 days. I suppose if that weren't available, I'd have switched to a different
type of rear axle, but I wasn't about to GIVE UP! Harris and Gates are not throw-away transmitters, they keep their value,
and unless the whole thing is a crispy critter, it is repairable.
There's almost always a way to fix something, unless you're committed to throwing in the towel.

Now, if Mr Farid has abused engineers to the point where no one will work for him, he's got a different problem and he
probably is intent on killing off the station.

 

[masterg]

Note to tekkies: WARM's collapse has NOTHING to do with xmtr problems.

 

[pell guy]

I know we're talking about the demise of WARM,and getting their transmitter fixed,but I have a question about the format itself,
what was the format after the short lived 'DO-WOPING OlDIES around 2000,I believe it was talk,I was thinking about
the infamous Imus incident at the Radison hotel which was May of 2000,was this before
THE DO-WOP format?? just curious.

 

[TheBigA]

We're talking about a station that, before it signed off, was getting less than a 1 share. WABC in NYC, located an hour away, has more audience in S-WB than WARM. It's the old line about the tree falling in a forrest.

I wonder how long was it off the air before anyone noticed.

 

[BaltimoreJack]

We're talking about a station that, before it signed off, was getting less than a 1 share. WABC in NYC, located an hour away, has more audience in S-WB than WARM. It's the old line about the tree falling in a forrest.

I wonder how long was it off the air before anyone noticed.

It is highly unlikely that anyone except the local radio buffs & geeks cared, or for that matter even noticed. When WARM was doing talk, the Scott System had a really bad habit of dropping Sat cues and the thing would sit idle for hours and virtually no one would call, and nobody at Baltimore Drive ever paid any attention to it. In fact the only people now who are upset at WARM's demise is the people here on this board. Nobody else gives a wit one way or another. Like it or not WARM hasn't been a part of NEPA peoples lives for years now. Again, it's sorry and sad, but it's the truth. WARM's been a critical patient in the radio ICU for a very long time. She finally died from her injuries. Time to let it go.

 

[deepstblu]

It would be interesting to know what might have changed. Farid was dead-set solid that WARM's sales price even in it's miserable condition was to be 3.5 mil. So if the repair costs are what you say (.5 mil) then you are talking 4 million dollars before a single song or spot is played. That's a lot of hay to bale. Route 81 (or whatever they call themselves today) is only asking 2.5 mil for 94.3, WNAK & WCDL. Throw away the 2 AMs and you've got an FM for a little more than half of what the possible cost for WARM is.

Nobody's looked at the real estate angle yet. Is the tower site owned or leased? If owned, is it included in that $3.5mil price? Is it in a location suitable for development (at least once the economy gets better)? I don't know the area, but five towers have to take up a bunch of space...is this simply a case where (sadly) the station is worth more dead than alive?

 

[BaltimoreJack]

It would be interesting to know what might have changed. Farid was dead-set solid that WARM's sales price even in it's miserable condition was to be 3.5 mil. So if the repair costs are what you say (.5 mil) then you are talking 4 million dollars before a single song or spot is played. That's a lot of hay to bale. Route 81 (or whatever they call themselves today) is only asking 2.5 mil for 94.3, WNAK & WCDL. Throw away the 2 AMs and you've got an FM for a little more than half of what the possible cost for WARM is.

Nobody's looked at the real estate angle yet. Is the tower site owned or leased? If owned, is it included in that $3.5mil price? Is it in a location suitable for development (at least once the economy gets better)? I don't know the area, but five towers have to take up a bunch of space...is this simply a case where (sadly) the station is worth more dead than alive?

While I am not certain, I believe that Citadel does own the tower real estate, and your idea is probably correct that the station is worth more cash to Citadel dead than alive looking from the real estate angle.

 

[jeffwoehrle]

It would be interesting to know what might have changed. Farid was dead-set solid that WARM's sales price even in it's miserable condition was to be 3.5 mil. So if the repair costs are what you say (.5 mil) then you are talking 4 million dollars before a single song or spot is played. That's a lot of hay to bale. Route 81 (or whatever they call themselves today) is only asking 2.5 mil for 94.3, WNAK & WCDL. Throw away the 2 AMs and you've got an FM for a little more than half of what the possible cost for WARM is.

Nobody's looked at the real estate angle yet. Is the tower site owned or leased? If owned, is it included in that $3.5mil price? Is it in a location suitable for development (at least once the economy gets better)? I don't know the area, but five towers have to take up a bunch of space...is this simply a case where (sadly) the station is worth more dead than alive?

For three and a half million, it better be included. And the transmitter shack better have a toilet.

Had a discussion with a friend last night about similar tower situations. Citadel would be foolish to own real estate. Radio is a cash-flow business that doesn't have the same constrictions and goals that (for example) a person has in owning your own home. A perpetual business model will always have expenses related to the land no matter if it's owned or not. Better to extract the value of owned land by selling it off to a tower company and leasing back the towers. You don't need towers, you need a signal. Let someone else worry about the tower site and you concentrate on making and selling radio.

That said, the tower lease payment for a five-tower array at over 500 feet is substantial in any environment. To meet that payment, you need either healthy sales or deep pockets. The wisdom of draining the deep pockets (assuming you have) to support an operation generating unhealthy sales is not wisdom at all.

I agree with a post above about a failed transmitter not being the root cause of WARM's departure. WARM's performance (or lack of it) is the reason.

To keep shoveling money into an operation with no chance of return is crazy. (Although not unprecedented...look at General Motors.)

I think Citadel made the right call. I'd have less respect for a company that would keep burning through its cash for pointless reasons in times like these. If shutting down WARM allows Citadel to keep even one person employed, I'd say it's worth it.

 

[K6JHU]

So does this mean that other 590 stations (e.g. WROW in Alabany) might have an opening to change their directional pattern? Or is this a topic for a different board.

 

[Tom Wells]

If I recall my "laws" class from wayback, the station will have to be silent for at least a year before any operating changes can be applied for by others on the frequency. This may have changed, but the idea was that the FCC doesn't consider the license dead yet, as
many stations go silent during moves or unexpected problems. Then too, if someone buys WARM, they'll have that time to get it back on the air. So Scranton still has a license for a station on 590, whether of not it's on the air.

 

[BaltimoreJack]

^^^
Yes, that's correct. As long as the FCC has full notification, the license is preserved for 1 year. However, if after 30 days Citadel does not formally inform the FCC that the station is dark, they are in violation, and the commission could fine Citadel and delete the license without the year long hold. When Route 81 bought 1440AM from Citadel, the station was dark for over a year while a new ground system & transmitter was installed up on Salem Mountain. While it's a debateable subject, it is likely that in it's current state 1440 probably has the newest overall AM components in the area.

 

[BaltimoreJack]

It would be interesting to know what might have changed. Farid was dead-set solid that WARM's sales price even in it's miserable condition was to be 3.5 mil. So if the repair costs are what you say (.5 mil) then you are talking 4 million dollars before a single song or spot is played. That's a lot of hay to bale. Route 81 (or whatever they call themselves today) is only asking 2.5 mil for 94.3, WNAK & WCDL. Throw away the 2 AMs and you've got an FM for a little more than half of what the possible cost for WARM is.

Nobody's looked at the real estate angle yet. Is the tower site owned or leased? If owned, is it included in that $3.5mil price? Is it in a location suitable for development (at least once the economy gets better)? I don't know the area, but five towers have to take up a bunch of space...is this simply a case where (sadly) the station is worth more dead than alive?

For three and a half million, it better be included. And the transmitter shack better have a toilet.

Had a discussion with a friend last night about similar tower situations. Citadel would be foolish to own real estate. Radio is a cash-flow business that doesn't have the same constrictions and goals that (for example) a person has in owning your own home. A perpetual business model will always have expenses related to the land no matter if it's owned or not. Better to extract the value of owned land by selling it off to a tower company and leasing back the towers. You don't need towers, you need a signal. Let someone else worry about the tower site and you concentrate on making and selling radio.

That said, the tower lease payment for a five-tower array at over 500 feet is substantial in any environment. To meet that payment, you need either healthy sales or deep pockets. The wisdom of draining the deep pockets (assuming you have) to support an operation generating unhealthy sales is not wisdom at all.

I agree with a post above about a failed transmitter not being the root cause of WARM's departure. WARM's performance (or lack of it) is the reason.

To keep shoveling money into an operation with no chance of return is crazy. (Although not unprecedented...look at General Motors.)

I think Citadel made the right call. I'd have less respect for a company that would keep burning through its cash for pointless reasons in times like these. If shutting down WARM allows Citadel to keep even one person employed, I'd say it's worth it.

I don't know if anyone knows about this..Scott Fybush probably does...but when a station shuts down an AM tower & transmitter facility like WARM's and for example wants to sell the land for development, do they have any responsibility under the HazMat rules & regs due to copper radials being buried underground, and for things like PCB's in old transmitter coils?

 

[jeffwoehrle]

It would be interesting to know what might have changed. Farid was dead-set solid that WARM's sales price even in it's miserable condition was to be 3.5 mil. So if the repair costs are what you say (.5 mil) then you are talking 4 million dollars before a single song or spot is played. That's a lot of hay to bale. Route 81 (or whatever they call themselves today) is only asking 2.5 mil for 94.3, WNAK & WCDL. Throw away the 2 AMs and you've got an FM for a little more than half of what the possible cost for WARM is.

Nobody's looked at the real estate angle yet. Is the tower site owned or leased? If owned, is it included in that $3.5mil price? Is it in a location suitable for development (at least once the economy gets better)? I don't know the area, but five towers have to take up a bunch of space...is this simply a case where (sadly) the station is worth more dead than alive?

For three and a half million, it better be included. And the transmitter shack better have a toilet.

Had a discussion with a friend last night about similar tower situations. Citadel would be foolish to own real estate. Radio is a cash-flow business that doesn't have the same constrictions and goals that (for example) a person has in owning your own home. A perpetual business model will always have expenses related to the land no matter if it's owned or not. Better to extract the value of owned land by selling it off to a tower company and leasing back the towers. You don't need towers, you need a signal. Let someone else worry about the tower site and you concentrate on making and selling radio.

That said, the tower lease payment for a five-tower array at over 500 feet is substantial in any environment. To meet that payment, you need either healthy sales or deep pockets. The wisdom of draining the deep pockets (assuming you have) to support an operation generating unhealthy sales is not wisdom at all.

I agree with a post above about a failed transmitter not being the root cause of WARM's departure. WARM's performance (or lack of it) is the reason.

To keep shoveling money into an operation with no chance of return is crazy. (Although not unprecedented...look at General Motors.)

I think Citadel made the right call. I'd have less respect for a company that would keep burning through its cash for pointless reasons in times like these. If shutting down WARM allows Citadel to keep even one person employed, I'd say it's worth it.

I don't know if anyone knows about this..Scott Fybush probably does...but when a station shuts down an AM tower & transmitter facility like WARM's and for example wants to sell the land for development, do they have any responsibility under the HazMat rules & regs due to copper radials being buried underground, and for things like PCB's in old transmitter coils?

I would think any buyer would have due diligence to make sure Jimmy Hoffa is not interred at the site, as well as copper/PCBs. If Citadel is leasing (my bet is they are) then they can (perhaps) get out of the lease. Upon which I would assume the tower company would dismantle the towers/ground screen/shacks and put the land up for sale. My vote is construct a new juvenile facility on the plot. I hear there's some money in that...

Anyway, leasing has another benefit to the radio company in that such things are no longer their responsibility. Citadel may just be able to walk away from the lease at this point. Perhaps the back story is that the lease is up for renewal and Citadel isn't too keen on re-upping.

If I had to take a stab, I'd think that lease payments for this would range from five to ten grand a month...depending upon how long ago the lease was signed. That's one hell of a nut...for Citadel or a new buyer.

 

[exmagic]

WVIA is presenting its WARMland remembered tonight.

 

[MarcB]

I don't know if anyone knows about this..Scott Fybush probably does...but when a station shuts down an AM tower & transmitter facility like WARM's and for example wants to sell the land for development, do they have any responsibility under the HazMat rules & regs due to copper radials being buried underground, and for things like PCB's in old transmitter coils?

I would say yes. IIRC 990 THE WALE in Providence (Greenville), Rhode Island was sold at auction to an outfit called Cumbre Communications. Part of the deal was that the previous owner was supposed to clean up the PCBs, etc and the didn't and the town slapped WALE with a fine that the new owner Cumbre Communications had to pay and they had to pay for the clean-up, which resulted in Cumbre Communications filing for bankruptcy. Today the station is still owned by Cumbre, but spends more time off the air than on. They're a technical nightmare, operating with no-where near the 50KW they're supposed to be running during the day. And most of the 50KW singal goes out to the fishies in the Atlantic Ocean. Right now if they're even on the air they're running a Spanish Romantica format.

 

[crmc]

WARM is on leased land in Falls. It's a long-term lease done in the 50s with several renewal options at the station's choosing. It is a relatively small amount of moneyby today's standards.. The ground system was troublesome back in the 90s, so it probably is worse now.