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WARM VS THE ROSE

I believe it was Dan Steele who said the Rose has been trending down since Tom Shannon Left. I just looked at the 25-54 demo and OH CONT RARE!! The Rose has been going Up Up and Up since Shannon's demise. Congrats to my friends at the Rose! You are certainly sneaking up on LAN and IOV.
 
It's time to re-tool the WARM staff starting with upper management. ??????



Uh......didn't WARM just do this in the past 6 months? PD Dave Russell---------Bang-----------gone
Kelly West & Bobby Quinn--------Bang-------Gone


Seems the "re-tooling" has only made matters a WHOLE LOT worse. Unless, of course, for all the $$$$$$$$ that was saved to the budget.
If that's how WARM is to be measured, by how much money it can save, then it is a BIG SUCCESS!!

It really is time for a format change for WARM. CHR, Country, or Talk on FM. The station is sinking in York and totally dead in the water in Lancaster. There will never be a Lancaster recovery. Rose, LAN, and IOV have all the adult females wrapped up. PLus whatever SOX pulls.
 
Note to Lew Dickey......you have achieved your cost cutting goal for WARM 103.3. Now it's time to put it out of it's misery and shake up the York and Lancaster markets like never before. Granted....every format that can generate revenue is already being done, but there has to be SOMETHING that can bring you better resuts as well as a market shake up that could end the logjam. Your research people should be figuring this out OR you could read this board and let Seltzer, Me, and a few others to help you out. We're not high paid consultants.....just a few people who can provide some common sense...if there's any of that left in this business. Let's kick this around and have some fun. What should 103.3 become in 2010.
 
Put WSBA on a full satellite format like most of the other AM's around and put the AM talk lineup on the FM. That would shake the area up. Of course that includes dumping the morning crew and getting some other nationally known morning show to fit in with Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity and the rest.
 
After pouring over the latest numbers, I've noticed a few things. If WARM were to look for a change there are a few options that have been hashed out on this sight before. Let's look at Country. All three markets have a market leading Country station. Is there room for another? There's plenty of listenership to go around in this format. In some other markets, the amount of Country shares actually increased when a new station came on board. There are plenty of out of market Country stations that show up. Check the York numbers. There are still some shares ripe for the taking. With CHR, Lancaster and Harrisburg have established leaders. FM-97 in Lancaster, and KISS and HOT in Harrisburg. York still has a bit of a hole...but probably not a very big one. Hot AC? I think a hole might exist in York and Lancaster....but it will need to be highly researched and targeted. I do notice that WHP is the only AM to score decent numbers in Lancaster and York as well as "monster" numbers in Harrisburg. WSBA's numbers in York are decent. I agree with many of the posters that FM talk could be a ratings leader in both York and Lancaster. For the sake of economy.....put WSBA on 103.3 and run as a simulcast with 910. When the Orioles are on....run the games on 910 only. Maybe run a slightly different line up on 910 at times, including infomercials to help with the overall revenue. Talk can be a winner....but it has to be on a signal that can be heard. One additional observation. I was trying to pick up an ESPN affiliate early last evening to hear some scores. Nothing was coming in clearly......but that's a subject for another post.
 
This market used to have 4 huge FM signals doing Country. When Citadel acquired WIOV, they flipped 106.7 to another format.

So yes, there is room for another major country station.

But perhaps the best idea is to move WSBA to 103.3 and put it on the dial where the desirable demos are. Run local shows in AM & PM drive.
In the fall, run the Ravens game on the FM.

If that happens, the next smart move would be to take ESPN programming off the weaker 1440 and put it on 910 with O's.

Perhaps. make 1440 a Progressive talk format but keep the Phillies there. It covers York City and that's where all the libs reside.
 
...WOW!...I would have loved to be in the same room when Bossjock was... "pouring over the numbers"

SERIOUSLY!...Can't you and Seltzer just exchange personal e-mails???

LOL!!!!....
 
I don't think Radio Babe is confused at all. She seems to have alot of knowledge. She's just probably tired of some of us trying to find ways to end the stagnation in this market. Things haven't changed in 3....maybe 4 years. Even in this tough economy the radio landscape in other markets is changing. Under performing stations are finding new directions. Granted, we only see the 12 plus numbers.....but how can a station with a 3 or 4 share expect to get agency buys? We also like to have fun and keep this board active!
 
Yes, last time I checked this was a board designed for discussion about radio. If anyone is bored with the postings, then I would suggest you don't bother visiting.

Boss Jock is right. This market has been stagnant for a number of years. There are some stations, and, frankly perhaps a cluster like Cumulus York, that seriously needs to take a real long hard look at what they're doing. Because, clearly, for whatever reason, it's not working. Doesn't mean with some thought and management changes, things couldn't get better.

And, just maybe, behind the scenes those discussions are going on right now. One can hope.

Some great ideas have been outlined here. But we'll all sit back and see what you come up with.
 
I think the Rose is OK because their variety is pretty decent and their music seems to have a good focus on "brighter" songs, even though I don't like all of their music. If the Rose could throw in a bit more "softer" songs into their playlist, I think WARM would become obsolete and therefore would be ready for a much needed format change.

Regarding WARM, I wish they would bring back the old WARM 103, from back when they used to play the "Best VARIETY of Soft Rock". Chicago, America, Hall & Oates, Fleetwood Mac, Santana, James Taylor, Neil Diamond, Carpenters, Stephen Bishop, along with a good mix of oldies AND current soft rock. There is a HUGE hole in the entire region as far as this type of music is concerned, and I don't think anyone can say that this type of music is completely dead yet. I don't think it will be for another 10+ years at least. And let's face it, no matter how much they try to get away from it, this type of music is what the WARM name is associated with. The WARM name will always have a "sissy" or "campy" connotation attached to it in the York market. So they might as well stop trying to be cool and go back to what they did best, because they were MUCH MORE POPULAR back then...to prove my point:

from the York Daily Record
October 31, 2000


'DR. LAURA' A TOUGH SELL FOR WHTM
TUNED IN column by Dan Fink
--snips--

Warm 103 tops again: WARM-FM (103.3) won another ratings book, according to figures from the Arbitron Company.

For the period between June and September, Warm 103's adult contemporary format averaged an 8.1 rating throughout the day, up from 7.8 a year ago. WRKZ-FM (106.7), Cat Country 107, finished with the fifth-highest rating (6.0) and forced WYCR-FM (98.5), 98 YCR, down to sixth.

WQXA-FM (105.7), WGTY-FM (107.7), and WSOX-FM (96.1) filled out the rest of the top five.

link: http://www.animaux.net/stern/york.html

As it is now, except for a few songs, I have to say that what WARM plays today is pretty crappy, not to mention that it noticeably clashes with what you hear on the Rose. And I am 27 years old.
 
vinyltapecd said:
I think the Rose is OK because their variety is pretty decent and their music seems to have a good focus on "brighter" songs, even though I don't like all of their music. If the Rose could throw in a bit more "softer" songs into their playlist, I think WARM would become obsolete and therefore would be ready for a much needed format change.

I agree. The Rose is very close to totally knocking WARM out of the format. It should happen before the year is out. Why? The reasons have been well documented and there's no need to rehash. I'll just say Bobby D and leave it at that.

Regarding WARM, I wish they would bring back the old WARM 103, from back when they used to play the "Best VARIETY of Soft Rock". Chicago, America, Hall & Oates, Fleetwood Mac, Santana, James Taylor, Neil Diamond, Carpenters, Stephen Bishop, along with a good mix of oldies AND current soft rock. There is a HUGE hole in the entire region as far as this type of music is concerned and I don't think anyone can say that this type of music is completely dead yet. I don't think it will be for another 10+ years at least. And let's face it, no matter how much they try to get away from it, this type of music is what the WARM name is associated with. The WARM name will always have a "sissy" or "campy" connotation attached to it in the York market.

The artists you mentioned minus the Carpenters, Stephen Bishop is what WSOX is about these days. It would make no sense for WARM to bring back those artists and songs.

The other question that should be raised: Is it a GOOD thing to have a station name that is considered "sissy or campy'? Food for thought.

And quoting 10 year old ratings is not smart. In 2000, there wasn't a Peak on the air and the Rose was still very sleepy. Plus WSOX was still playing the 50s and 60s. Those three stations and VERY BAD DECISIONS by management in 2009, some due to budget issues, are why WARM is where it is today.

It is time for a TOTAL MAKEOVER. New format, station name, new PD, new Morning Show (AGAIN) CHR or Country are the logical choices. Rose is now York's At Work station with WSOX also making moves in that direction.
Click to expand...
 
Seltzer said:
The artists you mentioned minus the Carpenters, Stephen Bishop is what WSOX is about these days. It would make no sense for WARM to bring back those artists and songs.

The other question that should be raised: Is it a GOOD thing to have a station name that is considered "sissy or campy'? Food for thought.

And quoting 10 year old ratings is not smart. In 2000, there wasn't a Peak on the air and the Rose was still very sleepy. Plus WSOX was still playing the 50s and 60s. Those three stations and VERY BAD DECISIONS by management in 2009, some due to budget issues, are why WARM is where it is today.

It is time for a TOTAL MAKEOVER. New format, station name, new PD, new Morning Show (AGAIN) CHR or Country are the logical choices. Rose is now York's At Work station with WSOX also making moves in that direction.
Click to expand...

First of all, let me justify my original point, which I stand by: WARM should return to their previous format (soft rock from 60s-70s with modern songs mixed in) because it is the only music that is literally MISSING in the entire York/Harrisburg/Lancaster/Gettysburg market (WSOX, PEAK, and MIX play maybe 1-2 “soft” songs per hour at most). Like I said, don’t forget that WARM held the NUMBER ONE spot in ratings when they used to play this kind of music (http://www.animaux.net/stern/york.html). And don’t try to tell me that WARM wasn’t considered “sissy” and “campy” back when they repeatedly stole the top spot in ratings…of course they were. Back in the early 2000s, I remember how I wouldn’t dare to tell any of my friends that I listen to WARM, even though I secretly liked their music. But it didn’t matter that they were the campiest station in the area, they were irrefutably the most popular one as well. I think the only reason WARM decided to change formats in the first place is that they just wanted to be cool and get rid of their campy image, NOT because their ratings suddenly plummeted or anything like that. For instance, read about WDUV in Tampa…they play exactly what WARM used to play, and they are the #1 rated station in the entire Tampa Bay area as of TODAY…look them up on Wikipedia right now if you don’t believe me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDUV. The problem I’ve noticed is that most people seem to be so closed minded that they shiver in fright the moment Stephen Bishop or the Carpenters are mentioned. Since I’m anonymous on this message board, I will confess this: I am a 27 year old male, and “It Might Be You” by Stephen Bishop and “Solitaire” by the Carpenters are two of my all time favorite songs, period. I think they are better than 95% of the music made today…they are examples of REAL music.

Finally, let me address one thing…I think CHR and Country are rather poor choices for a new format on WARM, just because they would be COMPLETELY redundant. As far as CHR, we have 96.9, along with 99.3, 104.1, and 92.1, all of which have pretty decent reception in the York area. That makes FOUR CHR stations, so why the heck would we need any more??? Unless our goal is to achieve radio homogeneity, of course. If WARM is thinking of becoming the 5th CHR station, then I will say they are much better off sticking with the crap they play now. And looking at Country stations, we have 107.7 (which sounds very good in York as far as reception) and 94.9 in Harrisburg, which isn’t bad. I think two Country stations is a good amount…adding a third one would not make much sense.
 
Glad we've got this great discussion going

1. WDUV is as successful as it is because of the demographic makeup of its market. Retirees, etc. It makes perfectly sense there that a station like that would do well. A station like this in Central PA would not succeed because the stations demos would be too old for advertisers. The A/C format continues to evolve as younger listeners grow into the demo that these advertisers want. I also can say that I doubt WDUV is playing the current stuff; Daughtry, Taylor Swift, etc. In fact, I've listened to WDUV on line and can tell you that is not the case. THere's a station in this area called MIX 1067, who tried doing what you described (minus current songs) when they came on and it failed miserably. They have evolved into a Classic Hits station.

2 WSOX, which is co-owned by Cumulus who also owns WARM, is probably the most "A/C sounding" Classic Hits station out there. One can question whether or not the station should be positioned that way, but it is. And listen to SOX vs say the Peak, and you'll hear the difference. SOX is very "whimpy" or "campy" for a Classic Hits station. Again, right or not, it seems like a decision was made by management to make sure WARM and WSOX hardly play any of the same music. So the WARM you want will never return, at least in that building.

3. 10 years ago, there were no Classic Hits stations. The market has changed. THere are alot more stations that now share a great portion of the audience WARM used to have. And Rose and 98.5 have gotten better and SMARTER. In fact, one can say from top to bottom, the strongest programming staff and air staff in Lancaster & York is 101 the Rose. Why? Well, for starters, they haven't been "Budget cutting" talent to shreds over the past couple of years. And is there a smarter promotions director than Ronnie Ramone? I think not. There is always something going on with the Rose.

4. CHR----For starters, 104.1 is NOT a CHR station. It was a Hot A/C at one time but is softening its sound as well. The other three statiions you mentioned are not licensed to York. They are Lancaster and Harrisburg stations. York has not had its own CHR station since 98.5 WYCR became the Peak. York's own CHR station could do very great, if programmed well. Years ago, York has 2 CHR stations in Q 106 (now the X) and YCR.

5. Country----At one time, this market had 4 big time country signals and all made a good living. The continued ratings success of WGTY in York, sittiing on top book after book, and WIOV in Lancaster's success says there is room for another big stick country station. And, interestingly enough, between York and Harrisburg, Cumulus does not own a country station.
 
Tampa is a vastly different market than central pennsylvania demographically. WARM going country could be the cause of death to WGTY. Overall the market is very different than it was 10 years ago.
 
I don't think Cumulus is concerned with causing the death of WGTY or anybody else. I think they are more concerned about preventing their OWN death. A switch to Country would cause some damage at 'GTY and 'IOV.....but would they have to spend a ton of money to do it. Same situation Citadel has with MIX. Ratings have tanked somewhat....but do you blow it up and do something else just to fail again....or do you bide your time 'til things start getting better in the advertising market and during that time try to figure out what WILL work? I think this is what's REALLY happening right now.
 
If you wait for the economy, you may be waiting for a long time.

But, in the mean time, time marches on. Other stations appear to be getting stronger. How can you sit back & do NOTHING when what's being done isn't working? If I'm an advertiser, I'd want the radio stations I'm doing business with to be taking measures to get better and bring in new customers...ala listeners...in to hear my advertising message. Or I'm just throwing my money away.
 
True! If you look at what's going on in other markets, there are alot of changes going on. In some markets....multiple changes. I think that in some cases, the economy is used as an excuse. Maybe the real reason that nothing is happening in Central PA is not knowing what to do. All major formats are already being done. There's less risk in waiting to see if things improve with the current format. Maybe stations like WARM and MIX feel that their ratings will improve. In the case of MIX, Citadel has two winners with WIOV and WQXA. RED holds it's own. MIX has a killer signal and should be getting better numbers. Country has been successful on 106.7. That's not going to happen again as long as WIOV is around. I don't think they know what else to do with MIX and it doesn't cost that much to operate. With WARM....I think Cumulus honestly thinks the new line-up will improve ratings and I think they want to see if they can save WARM before plunging into something new.....but time is running out.
 
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