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Warm's PD chair vacant again?

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bobdavcav said:
Show me where to get it then.
Click to expand...

It's kinda like going to Neiman Marcus...if you have to ask about 'em, you can't afford 'em! :rolleyes:

Seriously, Nielson is protective of their data. I worked at a country station in a rural market of VA with maybe 60,000 people (including 4,000 prisoners and 6,000 college students) in our 60 dBu coverage area. Our salesmen never got the rural Arbitrons; just like most rural stations, sales were based on personal relationships and legit salesman tactics. Then one day one of the salesmen from an Arbitron subscribing full-service AC station in town jumped ship to us. He showed us the Arbitron for our county...adults 18-49 we had a 20 share, which is normally something to pop bottles about. However, our full-service competitor pulled a 55 share(!) between the FM and the mostly simulcasted daytime-only AM...they also had something like 80% of the women 18-49. The AOR in town got something like a 10 share and the remainder of listening was to ranked metro stations 50-60 miles away.

Fact is, our salesmen couldn't do diddly squat with these numbers in public since we didn't subscribe. Arbitron would eat us for breakfast!

There are certain things non subscribers can use (primarily rankings without the ratings included). Our salesmen could have said "We are #2 18-49" or "More men listen to us than any other station" and be OK from what I remember. Saying anything that can construe a ratings number "1 out of 5 adults 18-49 listen to us" can get you in hot water unless you subscribe.

I have seen demo-specific numbers posted on this site (and others) before. That being said, I don't think it's allowed...either by Frank/mods or Nielsen!

What this means is unless any of us are working or are good buddies with someone at a commercial media outlet or a major advertiser, we will not get to see demo-specific ratings. It'll only be combined 6+ for us non-com radio lackeys, armchair PD's, and employees of cheapskate ranked market station owners! This is why we stick out like sore thumbs when we quote 6+ data. Yes, it's more scientific and precise than just polling your co-workers or shop owners on what stations they listen to, but not by much!

If anybody does have a free online source of demo specific ratings that I'm not aware of, feel free to PM or reply. Something tells me that'll be tough to find...

Radio-X
 
Radio-X said:
It's kinda like going to Neiman Marcus...if you have to ask about 'em, you can't afford 'em! :rolleyes:

Seriously, Nielson is protective of their data. I worked at a country station in a rural market of VA with maybe 60,000 people (including 4,000 prisoners and 6,000 college students) in our 60 dBu coverage area. Our salesmen never got the rural Arbitrons; just like most rural stations, sales were based on personal relationships and legit salesman tactics. Then one day one of the salesmen from an Arbitron subscribing full-service AC station in town jumped ship to us. He showed us the Arbitron for our county...adults 18-49 we had a 20 share, which is normally something to pop bottles about. However, our full-service competitor pulled a 55 share(!) between the FM and the mostly simulcasted daytime-only AM...they also had something like 80% of the women 18-49. The AOR in town got something like a 10 share and the remainder of listening was to ranked metro stations 50-60 miles away.

Fact is, our salesmen couldn't do diddly squat with these numbers in public since we didn't subscribe. Arbitron would eat us for breakfast!

There are certain things non subscribers can use (primarily rankings without the ratings included). Our salesmen could have said "We are #2 18-49" or "More men listen to us than any other station" and be OK from what I remember. Saying anything that can construe a ratings number "1 out of 5 adults 18-49 listen to us" can get you in hot water unless you subscribe.

I have seen demo-specific numbers posted on this site (and others) before. That being said, I don't think it's allowed...either by Frank/mods or Nielsen!

What this means is unless any of us are working or are good buddies with someone at a commercial media outlet or a major advertiser, we will not get to see demo-specific ratings. It'll only be combined 6+ for us non-com radio lackeys, armchair PD's, and employees of cheapskate ranked market station owners! This is why we stick out like sore thumbs when we quote 6+ data. Yes, it's more scientific and precise than just polling your co-workers or shop owners on what stations they listen to, but not by much!

If anybody does have a free online source of demo specific ratings that I'm not aware of, feel free to PM or reply. Something tells me that'll be tough to find...

Radio-X
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Excellent explanation.

I don't understand why the 6+ numbers get posted in the first place. It's easy for a hobbyist to find these numbers online and assume that they are seeing an accurate picture of the market.
 
fordranger797 said:
I don't understand why the 6+ numbers get posted in the first place.
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Depends on what your purpose is for seeing the numbers. If you are just interested in the horse race, you don't need to know what that horse ate or what his heritage is. You just care about who won. That's what the 6+ numbers are. If you want to know who's making money, then you probably can afford to pay for more detail. Professional gamblers vs. the amateurs who just play the office pool. That's the difference.

Moral: If you're trying to draw conclusions in a professional way, you shouldn't attempt to do it using amateur information.
 
fordranger797 said:
Excellent explanation.

I don't understand why the 6+ numbers get posted in the first place. It's easy for a hobbyist to find these numbers online and assume that they are seeing an accurate picture of the market.
Click to expand...

The 6+ is an accurate picture of the market as far as it goes.

In some senses, it is like the Hot 100 chart in Billboard. That chart is made up of the sales of urban, hip-hop, country, AC, CHR and all the other sounds that in radio represent separate formats. Yet if you have to stock music for, let's say, WalMart, you know that each store has different sales characteristics based on location: some sell more country, others more Black or Hispanic product. But for most, the national chart is good enough. That is because most people are not wholesale music buyers for a retailer.

Nielsen gives away the 6+ or 12+ data because there is always interest in lists and because it enhances the Nielsen name. Another poster mentioned that this is important when they try to recruit folks to be on their panel or take diaries. But they do not give away the deeper data that helps advertisers pick stations.

A key reason why the data is protected is that stations pay for it to help them sell. Stations that don't pay should not get the benefit of what others paid for. Otherwise, why pay. As Radio-X very nicely described, you can't use what you did not pay for to sell.

However, there is limited use such as "KZXY was 22nd in 25-54, even though it was 9th in 12+". But you can't do a whole demo-specific ranker with shares for specific demos.
 
This is all very well said. I think I knew most of that already. It was clear to me that someone had access to the numbers, and if the others on this board really wanted to defend my claim, they would have needed to provide those numbers for me because I don't have access. David, am I correct in what I said about Warm's increases year over year? Isn't it logical that there would be decreases in the demos as well if the 6+ number is way down?
 
Certainly things aren't all hunky dory and everyone is riding high on success because they blew out another PD who lasted as long as a Kardashian wedding. They jumped to Xmas music trying to milk the last two weeks of a non Xmas book in hopes of gaining a lift and make that last book have / mean something. The musical air chair game that has been going on since 2012. The flip flopping of music - my gosh are we playing 80s aren't we? Are we hot AC or not are we this or that shows a lack of vision and purpose. All of these things along with a deeper dive into the station and numbers would reveal that the health of this property is not good or at least where it needs to be to keep a PD or talent employed. Seriously you don't make moves like this if everything is great.
 
CarAgencyGuy said:
its unclear from this thread exactly what numbers are begin sought to prove the point that WARM is having problems...
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Here's what's going on, someone said that Warm is having problems at Christmas time, likely like me only having access to the 6+ numbers. I said that, as was pointed out earlier, that KRWM did in fact improve this year but took a hit last December as compared to the December before. To top it off, the person who posted the demo breakdown from last year to this either hasn't returned to this thread or refuses to get involved any further, and people are demanding the data from a broke college student who doesn't have access to it. Ok I could probably afford the data, but I've got better things to spend my money on. If I actually had a job at the moment I just might subscribe to such a website, but that's not a guarantee.
 
Mainstream AC ratings can by cyclical, just like Top40. I think AC is in a down period right now music-wise, and even the Christmas programming can't rescue it. There are exceptions, but in general, mainstream AC has been losing audience the past 24 months. Just speculation, but my thought is the format has lost direction, with some trying to go too young, and some sticking with aging demos. The result is a lack of direction overall. Answer? Not sure.
 
Let's set the record straight on getting access to Nielsen demo data:

The only way - ONLY WAY - to get access to the data is to be an employee of a radio station that subscribes to receive it OR a client who is pitched to buy advertising where the salesperson from a subscribing station quotes the Nielsen data.

PERIOD.

There's no website that an individual can sign up for.
 
seatownmedia said:
Mainstream AC ratings can by cyclical, just like Top40. I think AC is in a down period right now music-wise, and even the Christmas programming can't rescue it. There are exceptions, but in general, mainstream AC has been losing audience the past 24 months. Just speculation, but my thought is the format has lost direction, with some trying to go too young, and some sticking with aging demos. The result is a lack of direction overall. Answer? Not sure.
Click to expand...
Aren't most ACs still aiming squarely at 39 and a half year olds?
 
bobdavcav said:
Here's what's going on, someone said that Warm is having problems at Christmas time, likely like me only having access to the 6+ numbers. I said that, as was pointed out earlier, that KRWM did in fact improve this year but took a hit last December as compared to the December before. To top it off, the person who posted the demo breakdown from last year to this either hasn't returned to this thread or refuses to get involved any further, and people are demanding the data from a broke college student who doesn't have access to it. Ok I could probably afford the data, but I've got better things to spend my money on. If I actually had a job at the moment I just might subscribe to such a website, but that's not a guarantee.
Click to expand...

No need to play victim; people are trying to get you to understand two very elementary things. The first being you cannot make intelligent assessments of radio stations based on 6+ numbers. Second, the person who talked about the numbers before did it by listing the ranks and the percentage differences, thus without breaking legally protected information.

Just because said person isn't responding to your requests for numbers doesn't mean they hate you. It's probably the fact that not everyone has time to come here to post every day.
 
Two opinions that I have personally heard:
"I like Warm 106-9, but I wish they would play more new music. I don't like those old songs very much."
"I like Warm 106-9, but I like the 80's and 90's songs the best. I don't like the newer songs as much."
 
And don't forget my favorite listener quote: "I wish Warm 106-9 would play Kokomo." Carries about the same level of credibility.
 
Kelly A said:
And don't forget my favorite listener quote: "I wish Warm 106-9 would play Kokomo." Carries about the same level of credibility.
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Good point, but you can see why those comments might be given. I can see why it might be confusing to hear Jason Derulo right after "Girls Just Want to Have Fun".
 
Dude, I've been in this business since the 70's and one thing hasn't changed: Everyone has an opinion whether asked, or they just volunteer (usually negative) about any radio station that they frequently listen to. This is especially true if they know you work in the business, or for a particular station. For whatever reason, people believe it's somehow their duty to tell you what they don't like about the way a particular radio or TV station is programmed. Human nature.

If you're serious about working in this business, you can't let it get under your skin.
 
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fordranger797 said:
Good point, but you can see why those comments might be given. I can see why it might be confusing to hear Jason Derulo right after "Girls Just Want to Have Fun".
Click to expand...

What's wrong with hearing those songs consecutively?
 
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