Was there a planned AM shuffle?

[collegeDJ86]

I remember reading on this board somewhere about some type of AM signal swapping, but I do not remember all the parties involved. I remember that one of the signals involved was the 910 signal, currently broadcasting "Praise 910, WAVL," the sole CCM outlet in Pittsburgh (save for the music on WORD weekends). As a refresher, who are the parties involved? Also, where does WAVL go if it to leave 910?

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> I remember reading on this board somewhere about some type
> of AM signal swapping, but I do not remember all the parties
> involved. I remember that one of the signals involved was
> the 910 signal, currently broadcasting "Praise 910, WAVL,"
> the sole CCM outlet in Pittsburgh (save for the music on
> WORD weekends). As a refresher, who are the parties
> involved? Also, where does WAVL go if it to leave 910?
>

There's FCC construction apps for 910 and 1360 with Renda Broadcasting and whoever owns WAVL. They were filed during the AM major CA window in early 2004. There's a competing app for 910 (I think) and an adjacent channel app for 1360.

The story in so far as Pittsburgh is concerned:

Renda moves 910's COL to Mt. Lebanon; tower array in North Fayette Twp. at 10kw; daytime only (at first--after the major CA is completed, getting nighttime coverage is a minor app which can be done w/o a window). Calls will be WPTT, and assume the format would remain news/talk.

WAVL gets the anemic 1360 signal--fulltime, but with a crappy directional at night. 5kw days/1kw nights currently licensed to McKeesport. Word is the Apollo COL would work, but a competing app has called that into question. Also, predictions are for a new tower site in Armstrong County (they'd need one for the directional). Assume format would stay the same. (Also, don't quote me here, but I seem to remember some rumor that WAVL was eyeing up an FM app. Not sure where it would work.)

Again, some competing apps could change these plans. I don't have the details of those off the top of my head.

Hope this helps.

 

[KeyTimes]

Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

> > I remember reading on this board somewhere about some type
>
> > of AM signal swapping, but I do not remember all the
> parties
> > involved. I remember that one of the signals involved was
>
> > the 910 signal, currently broadcasting "Praise 910, WAVL,"
>
> > the sole CCM outlet in Pittsburgh (save for the music on
> > WORD weekends). As a refresher, who are the parties
> > involved? Also, where does WAVL go if it to leave 910?
> >
>
> There's FCC construction apps for 910 and 1360 with Renda
> Broadcasting and whoever owns WAVL. They were filed during
> the AM major CA window in early 2004. There's a competing
> app for 910 (I think) and an adjacent channel app for 1360.

(1) Evangel Heights Assembly of God in Sarver, Butler County, would move to 1360 ... presuming that it can protect WTYM-AM 1380 in Ford City-Kittanning, whose tower is 12 miles from WAVL's present Apollo site (where 1360 would be located according to the present plan).

(2) There's no challenger, to my knowledge, for 910 in either Apollo or Union Twp. (Washington County) where Renda will move 910 (with new city of license in Mt. Lebanon). However, there is a competing application for 1350 in Geistown, near Johnstown, that would be affected by an Apollo 1360. (The proponent there is owned by the gentleman selling WZUM-AM 1590 to Starboard Media Foundation.)

>
> The story in so far as Pittsburgh is concerned:
>
> Renda moves 910's COL to Mt. Lebanon; tower array in North
> Fayette Twp. at 10kw; daytime only (at first--after the
> major CA is completed, getting nighttime coverage is a minor
> app which can be done w/o a window). Calls will be WPTT,
> and assume the format would remain news/talk.

(3) Correct, again, except for the tower site (south of Mt. Lebanon, not north) and WPTT to all information would remain news/talk.

>
> WAVL gets the anemic 1360 signal--fulltime, but with a
> crappy directional at night. 5kw days/1kw nights currently
> licensed to McKeesport. Word is the Apollo COL would work,
> but a competing app has called that into question. Also,
> predictions are for a new tower site in Armstrong County
> (they'd need one for the directional). Assume format would
> stay the same. (Also, don't quote me here, but I seem to
> remember some rumor that WAVL was eyeing up an FM app. Not
> sure where it would work.)

(4) No word on an FM for WAVL. Interestingly enough, WAVL needs to clear its use of a syndicated Contemporary Christian format, WAY-FM, with a low-power FM in Indiana.

Hope this helps, too.

 

[collegeDJ86]

Re: Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

Thanks for those updates.

Man I think it would be great if WAVL could get an FM. Maybe one of the Froggy signals would be willing to sell. I find it ridiculous how many signals they have that are at least listenable in Pittsburgh. But, if they can't get one of those, what about licensing a non-comm? I don't know too much about what reaches Pittsburgh proper, as I am sometimes located in the far north part of the market, but I didn't think there were too many non-comms on the air. Way-FM is a non-commercial format.

Does Renda have to ensure that WAVL will have the 1360 available to use before they move to 910? I'm sure the WAVL owners would not be happy to make a trade, only to find that they couldn't get a license for 1360...

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

> Thanks for those updates.
>
> Man I think it would be great if WAVL could get an FM.
> Maybe one of the Froggy signals would be willing to sell. I
> find it ridiculous how many signals they have that are at
> least listenable in Pittsburgh. But, if they can't get one
> of those, what about licensing a non-comm? I don't know too
> much about what reaches Pittsburgh proper, as I am sometimes
> located in the far north part of the market, but I didn't
> think there were too many non-comms on the air. Way-FM is a
> non-commercial format.

Ahhh...Pittsburgh non-comm saturation, a favorite and expert topic of mine.

Pittsburgh doesn't have that many non-comms, but what it does have garner great protection..

WRCT is at 88.3 with a low-towered 3kw.
WPTS is at 92.1 with 13w (yes, you read that right) and NO PROTECTION.
WYEP is at 91.3 with a Cathedral of Learning-towered 18kw.
WDUQ is at 90.3 with a Mt Washington-towered 25kw.
WQED is at 89.3 with an Oakland-towered 43kw.

When I was at WXJX (Washington, PA) in 1999, we commissioned Carl Smith to do a study of available non-comm openings in the Pittsburgh market at the most power available. The only one, then, was 91.7 at 1.9kw ERP. In fact, if I remember right, Carl Smith didn't even offer us any other options, even at lower power. Even then, we had to engineer and direct AWAY from WYEP--despite the fact it was 25 miles away.

So, WAVL may try to find a non-comm FM allocation, but it will lose alot of coverage in Pittsburgh because of the protections of existing stations.

Also bear in mind that Apollo is close to Johnstown; therefore, Apollo needs to protect not only Pittsburgh, but also Johnstown. Oh, and let's not forget Indiana, PA and its non-comms that need protecting.

So, it appears a non-comm allocation in the FM band is pretty much scrapped, unfortunately. Pittsburgh is filled up.


> Does Renda have to ensure that WAVL will have the 1360
> available to use before they move to 910? I'm sure the WAVL
> owners would not be happy to make a trade, only to find that
> they couldn't get a license for 1360...
>

I'm sure the whole thing hinges on an equal allocation--that is, Renda gets a signal and WAVL gets a signal. I think you'd have Renda buying the 910 license and WAVL buying the 1360 license. Otherwise, you'd have Renda moving to the already occupied 910 space, etc. Should either move fail to meet FCC specs, I'm sure the purchase agreement states that the non-happening of that condition voids the contract and no one is required to perform anything.

 

[Lex]

Re: Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

So you're the expert? Then I have a question. First I'm gonna ask the question, then guess at the answer, then you can confirm or deny.

I'd like to know why WYEP's txmtr a/o stick is on top of the Cathedral, and WPTS (does that stand for Pitt's Towerless Signal) uses the raingutters on the William Pitt Union for a dipole. Why isn't Pitt Radio on top of the Cathedral instead. Could it be... the only thing you can buy Pitt's pride with... money?


PS I already know the heartwarming story of how Pitt Radio was started by Alec Stewart and Bree on a coathanger hanging out of a dorm window, I would like to know why it's STILL there.


> Ahhh...Pittsburgh non-comm saturation, a favorite and expert
> topic of mine.
>
> WRCT is at 88.3 with a low-towered 3kw.
> WPTS is at 92.1 with 13w (yes, you read that right) and NO
> PROTECTION.
> WYEP is at 91.3 with a Cathedral of Learning-towered 18kw.
> WDUQ is at 90.3 with a Mt Washington-towered 25kw.
> WQED is at 89.3 with an Oakland-towered 43kw.
>

 

[Mrmusic]

Re: Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

> So you're the expert? Then I have a question. First I'm
> gonna ask the question, then guess at the answer, then you
> can confirm or deny.
>
> I'd like to know why WYEP's txmtr a/o stick is on top of the
> Cathedral, and WPTS (does that stand for Pitt's Towerless
> Signal) uses the raingutters on the William Pitt Union for a
> dipole. Why isn't Pitt Radio on top of the Cathedral
> instead. Could it be... the only thing you can buy Pitt's
> pride with... money?
>
>
> PS I already know the heartwarming story of how Pitt Radio
> was started by Alec Stewart and Bree on a coathanger hanging
> out of a dorm window, I would like to know why it's STILL
> there.



Bree was about 10 years after the start of Pitt Radio. True Pioneers date back to the Mike Green and Tom Walsh era.

Mr. Music

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

> So you're the expert? Then I have a question. First I'm
> gonna ask the question, then guess at the answer, then you
> can confirm or deny.

Not an expert on towers--only the effects of non-comm saturation. Nonetheles, I can answer your question, as we had a similar (hell, damn near identical) situation at WXJX...

> I'd like to know why WYEP's txmtr a/o stick is on top of the
> Cathedral, and WPTS (does that stand for Pitt's Towerless
> Signal) uses the raingutters on the William Pitt Union for a
> dipole. Why isn't Pitt Radio on top of the Cathedral
> instead. Could it be... the only thing you can buy Pitt's
> pride with... money?

Pitt's Towerless Signal is nice!

WPTS is a non-comm situated in the commercial band at 92.1 MHz, with approx. 13 watts of power (give or take).

As such, it is not protected in that position, that is, if another commercial operator wanted the 92.1 position, WPTS would be kicked out--and NOT guaranteed a spot in the dial, either non-comm or comm. My suspicion is that WPTS is an old Class D non-comm that wouldn't increase its power in the late 70s/early 80s.

Then-WJCR at Washington & Jefferson College encountered the same thing: we had a Class D (no more than 10 watts ERP) at 88.3; the Trustees refused to authorize the $8,000 for a 100 watt transmitter to stay in the non-comm band (1979). As a result of the FCC decision to get rid of Class D's (both comm and non-comm), WJCR was forced to move to 92.1, in the comm band without protection.
We stayed there, as WJCR and WXJX, until 2003, when we got the 91.7 slot with 1.9 kw ERP--after I planned the move, and helped get financing, etc. In the ultimate ignomony, they finalized the deal after I left W&J. Oh well.

Anyway, as you know, when you increase height, you normally have to lower power to maintain the same ERP and contour coverage. With around 10 watts of power, at say 60 meters (as the WXJX antenna was) you get full power. But go up to the Cathedral height, can you imagine what power you'd have? That height, you'd be lucky to get a deciwatt. And no transmitter goes that low. Also, I believe the FCC has mandated that these Class Ds keep their assigned antenna height (I'm not sure though).

So, that's the deal: because WPTS (and good ol' WXJX) were such rarities, the FCC was superstrict, and thus, were left with the stuff they had.

Oh, and being totally truthful--I'm sure money has something to do with the sorry state of WPTS.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Re: Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

> WYEP is at 91.3 with a Cathedral of Learning-towered 18kw.

When I lived there, I thought that WYEP moved out to the
Y-97 site not too far from WIXZ day location (on the
east side of the Squirrel Hill tunnels from WJAS). FWIW,
Radio Locator shows 96.9 and WYEP with the same coordinates.

I seem to recall that when WYEP first came on (with much lower
power than it has today), it was on the COL but the increase
to 18 KW led to the shared stick with Y.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

> > WYEP is at 91.3 with a Cathedral of Learning-towered 18kw.
>
>
> When I lived there, I thought that WYEP moved out to the
> Y-97 site not too far from WIXZ day location (on the
> east side of the Squirrel Hill tunnels from WJAS). FWIW,
> Radio Locator shows 96.9 and WYEP with the same coordinates.
>
>
> I seem to recall that when WYEP first came on (with much
> lower
> power than it has today), it was on the COL but the increase
>
> to 18 KW led to the shared stick with Y.
>

You may very well be correct. I just remember that the Cathedral was their site. The distance from the Cathedral to the Channel 97 tower (no more than 2 miles) isn't enough to change the point of my post, and not enough to significantly impact the contour thrown over the area by WYEP. I still think a non-comm for Apollo (NE of the city) anywhere up or down three channels +/- from 91.3 is dead on arrival in regards to what coverage said non-comm could get in Pittsburgh (and really, anywhere to the west or south).

 

[Part-timer]

Re: Yes, there is a planned AM shuffle

> I'd like to know why WYEP's txmtr a/o stick is on top of the
> Cathedral, and WPTS (does that stand for Pitt's Towerless
> Signal) uses the raingutters on the William Pitt Union for a
> dipole. Why isn't Pitt Radio on top of the Cathedral
> instead. Could it be... the only thing you can buy Pitt's
> pride with... money?

It is on the Cathedral. And there's never been much financial support for the operation. Politics.

>
>
> PS I already know the heartwarming story of how Pitt Radio
> was started by Alec Stewart and Bree on a coathanger hanging
> out of a dorm window, I would like to know why it's STILL
> there.
>

Actually that was our crew in the 70's that hung the antenna out the window.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>