Wasted 50 kw AM signals

[vibe]

I drive a lot at night and there are still a lot of cars on the road. I imagine that some of them are boomers and seniors who were weaned on AM and like to listen to out of market stations. I sure do and I know I'm not alone. It's a good way to keep up with what's going on in many areas; maybe catch a late night ball game with a different announcing crew than at home.
I mix that in with FM and CD's mainly to keep awake.

 

[DG02816]

Speaking of driving, and tying this to a station a few pages back, WPGC is now Inspirational talk and has some Gospel music as well. I hear them during critical hours in the evening driving home up I-476 from WVCH's Brookhaven studios. They still use the Heaven 1580 liners they had as a full time Gospel outlet. And in reference to the two 990 signals, I worked at the 990 in Providence whern it was WEAN, doing MOYL.At that time(late '80's)the station was 50 kW-D, and 500 watts-N. Same pattern but with a 20 dB(I think)power drop from day to night. It's now back on the air , but with no remote control to the transmitter, and the audio is horribly distorted. Here in Philly, Salem's WNTP 990 is 50 kW-D, 10 kW-N, a true DA-2 with very different patterns day and night. It was recently able to let out the day pattern somewhat to cover the NW suburbs of Philly. Chief engineer Rene Tetro posts here from time to time, and could fill in anything I've missed...

 

[johnnyu]

I am interested in your nominations for wasted 50 kw signals on AM for anywhere in the USA.........................

I'll start with two...........WCBM Baltimore and WWKB Buffalo.................

 

[Wthom100]

WWJ 950 AM Detroit - most of the night-time signal is beamed to the northeast into the un-populated wilds of northern Michigan and northern Ontario Canada. I hear the moose and beavers like to hear traffic and weather on the 8's!!

 

[Wthom100]

Another one out of the Detroit market - WJR (the "50,000 blow-torch") - the station is basically a huge repeater station that radiates out syndicated programming that most other markets can get from other stations (in this case the "trucker network) - a. la. sort of like any 50,000 watt station that broadcasts the "coast-to-coast" program.

WJR is a poster child of what was once a great heritage station that now is basically nothing - like many other once great stations across the country.

 

[ponderosaAZ]

KAAY in Little Rock, and KDWN in Las Vegas.

you know it's funny, this great topic is on so many message boards right now! why do you think KAAY 1090 and KDWN 720 are wasted? Is it KAAY's unusual shoestring pattern, perhaps? KDWN covers 13 states at night and CA,UT,AZ during the day, why do you count this as a waste?

my submission is (sorry if Clendening is reading this!) Salem's KKOL-AM 1300 in Seattle (4 towers), where Tom serves (or served) as PD. Unfotunately, the towers were too close to the Port of Tacoma, and the last I understood, the feds mandated the power go down to 25kW (although this doesn't show up on the FCC web site).

Plus, the towers are in the worst possible place for Seattle, as the signal has to climb Indian Hill just to make it into Seattle/Bellevue/Kent. It probably doesn't even make it at 5mV/m to north of Seattle (Everett/Edmonds). A better place for the towers could be the Kent Valley near Kent, Renton, or even Auburn, but the ground conductivity is horrible everywhere there.

 

[ponderosaAZ]

"660 KTNN in Window Rock, Arizona, is an interesting station broadcasting from (and to) the Navajo reservation. It seems like a big signal for a pretty narrow segment of our population, but it's interesting to listen to for a while with its mix of traditional Navajo chant and classic country -- and serves a population that is spread over a pretty wide area of the southwest. I'll give them a pass, and say I am glad they are on the air."



660 is a tremendous station, covering several states at night, and carrying the Midnight Truckers Network 7 days a week 10P-3A MST. In some areas of Arizona and the S.W., it's the only "listenable" nightime talk radio show other than C2C or NPR. Recently, the show format seems to have changed with more discussions of Oil, Energy, Politics, and History. Gary McNamara is a very authoritative speaker and the show is worth a listen even if you're not a trucker. Eric Harley has a very mellow voice that balances Gary's very nicely. Eric does remotes sometimes

As for the reservations, they need 50kW to cover everywhere. A 5kW wouldn't do it. 660 is directional at night, only.

 

[ponderosaAZ]

KPTK-AM 1090 Seattle. Once the mighty KING-AM (top-40, then full service gold -A/C, then local talk, then classic country). These legendary calls have been reduced to a shadow of their former self by becoming the local outlet for Air America. Not ONE local person appears at anytime on this signal save for the Metro Traffic reporter. Nice job, CBS!

yes KING/KINK/KPTK/1090 was at its best under Brian Jennings with live and local talk. Perhaps CBS doesn't give them the money to hire local hosts.
Seems that this is a perpetual problem, perhaps from the corporate lvl, among most of these liberal stations with jones/air america. They would get higher ratings if they had a mix of liberals, conservatives, independents, like KGO and the old KIRO. You can't preach to the choir all the time when most listeners to AM talk are conservative.
1090 does have a CP to expand coverage east and south of seattle into the suburbs, we'll watch Big Eddie and Thom Hartmann cannibalize KIRO even further middays in an ultraliberal market.
and, seattle talk radio has been dead ever since Tom Clendening was released of his duties at KIRO and Bonneville took over. Tom Clendening is the best PD in the US and had a great lineup, with Prell, Jeffers, Webb, Erin HArt, Lou Pete, Bryan Styble, N.Y.Vinnie, Ron/Don, Ross, Monson, etc. The new Bonneville KIRO only features about 4 or 5 local hosts, the rest is syndicated stuff like bill handel.

 

[ponderosaAZ]

KPTK-AM 1090 Seattle. Once the mighty KING-AM (top-40, then full service gold -A/C, then local talk, then classic country). These legendary calls have been reduced to a shadow of their former self by becoming the local outlet for Air America. Not ONE local person appears at anytime on this signal save for the Metro Traffic reporter. Nice job, CBS!


Air America wont last long on that station. It doesnt last long anywhere. ;D

their 25-54 look great and seattle is one of about 7 of the best markets for liberal talk in the US based on 12+ data, which may be relevant now when looking at N/T numbers, considering that Phil Boyce at a recent convention suggested that boomers are now aging, and that the 35-64 demo is worth looking at for N/T...he did a study of Sean Hannity in this regards on WABC...(markets: Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Albuquerque, Santa Fe, NM, Denver, Los Angeles, Miami)

1090 has also been able to take advantage of the KIRO weaknesses i.e. when KIRO's Mike Webb left due to likely false allegations of insurance fraud, Mike Malloy was actually beating KIRO substitute hosts in the old Mike Webb time slot (!)

 

[ponderosaAZ]

So Stephanie Miller doesn't even do well in Portland. My mistatement. What does KPOJ do to be successful anyway? How do they get drooling political illiterates to pay attention to somebody else's narcissism or even tune an AM radio?

the entire pacific n.w. is ultraliberal that's why portland and seattle air america/jones stations do so well

KPOJ PD Mike Dirkx and chief engineer Chris Weiss have been dedicated to the station's success since day 1 along with support from clear channel, jones, and air america

the signal is huge, covering all of western OR and southwest WA - on AM 620, its 25kW day, 10kW night (DA-2)

as you know, clear channel doesn't allocate funds equally to all of its liberal stations. KPOJ gets money from CC. I could elaborate w/ details about others, but that would violate confidentiality. Obviously when you see KLSD 1360 in San Diego dissapear, the company wasn't committed to their success. Stacy Taylor and Ed Schultz had the highest ratings on KLSD. Stacy is now on "San Diego 1700" with Mark Larson as PD/morning host.

other than KGO, KPOJ has the highest 12+ numbers for a progressive talk station in the US, followed by in descending order, Albuquerque, Seattle, Denver, L.A., and Miami and probably one or two others are in there somewhere.

 

[ponderosaAZ]

KXL now broadcasts with 20kw nighttime and is one of two traditionally successful Portland AMs.

three, also KPOJ-AM 620 HA HA HA HA HA 8)

Weiss gets some credit for his OTHER two towers operating at 25kW!

 

[davideduardo]

...their 25-54 look great and seattle is one of about 7 of the best markets for liberal talk in the US based on 12+ data,

KPTK is 27th in 25-54 in Seattle. That's just awful. KIRO is, by contrast, top 10.

 

[davideduardo]

as you know, clear channel doesn't allocate funds equally to all of its liberal stations. KPOJ gets money from CC. I could elaborate w/ details about others, but that would violate confidentiality. Obviously when you see KLSD 1360 in San Diego dissapear, the company wasn't committed to their success. Stacy Taylor and Ed Schultz had the highest ratings on KLSD. Stacy is now on "San Diego 1700" with Mark Larson as PD/morning host.

Clear Channel does not "allocate" funds to any station. Nor does any radio company except groups of non-cpmmercial stations.

Stations and clusters have budgets which, generally, assume the cluster will make money based on a combination of revenue goals and budget-controlled expenses.

Comparing a station like 620 in Portland, which has a 10 mv/m over the entire market, with KLSD, which barely coveres half the market by day and maybe a third at night, is absurd.

In Portland, you have, in the former KGW, a great signal in a well-defined liberal market. In San diego, you have California´s largest conservative market, and one which is highly ethnic, served by a signal that has coverage that ranges from bad to dismal, depending if one thinks about the day or th enight contours.

 

[davideduardo]

KDWN covers 13 states at night and CA,UT,AZ during the day, why do you count this as a waste?

KDWN serves a tiny piece of Utah, one barely larger in mostly unpopulated parts of AZ, and SW vevada plus a ton of CA desert at night. In CA, it only covers some wilderness and areas like the Antilope Valley and the Victor Valley decently. Elsewhere, signals like 710 in LA make it unusable in the populated areas.

Anything more is DX quality, unreliable and erratic.

 

[qtpieislit]

and a daytimer in the deep south does not sign on as late as or sign off as early as a northern daytimer.

I'm not sure I get that. Isn't sunrise power-up, and sundown, power down/sign off the same everywhere? (except 1530/Cincinatti) Sunrise in a particular time zone is the same in the north and the deep south. Yes? No?

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Isn't sunrise power-up, and sundown, power down/sign off the same everywhere?...... Sunrise in a particular time zone is the same in the north and the deep south. Yes? No?

No.

You have to factor in latitude, longitude, and a "paper exercise"
of the GMT offset--that is, whether or not the location is on DST.

The further north you are (latitude), the days are longer in summer
and shorter in winter, as compared to a more southern latitude.

How far you are east or west of the center meridian of your time zone
(longitude) will skew the clock times for monthly sunrise/sunset, whether
on standard time or DST.

In the FCC AM Query, each station has a page showing the monthly
sign-on/off (power up/down) times. SEA is different from RNO which
is different from LAX--and that's just in the Pacific zone. This works
the same way in the other time zones.

 

[CW]

KOOL-FM played "Brown Eyed Girl" how many times last week? Sheesh!

Maybe that's the reason she is brown eyed

 

[ponderosaAZ]

...their 25-54 look great and seattle is one of about 7 of the best markets for liberal talk in the US based on 12+ data,

KPTK is 27th in 25-54 in Seattle. That's just awful. KIRO is, by contrast, top 10.

I was referring to the top 7 liberal stations for 12+ , not 25-54. And, I was reffering to KPTK 25-54 6A-7P M-F, not weekends or overnights.

as with KLSD (as you also mentioned), KPTK has signal problems, until their daytime CP is going, they will continue to have inadequate coverage. the night pattern can't be changed due to 1090 in Little rock and XX Sports 1090

 

[ponderosaAZ]

as you know, clear channel doesn't allocate funds equally to all of its liberal stations. KPOJ gets money from CC. I could elaborate w/ details about others, but that would violate confidentiality. Obviously when you see KLSD 1360 in San Diego dissapear, the company wasn't committed to their success. Stacy Taylor and Ed Schultz had the highest ratings on KLSD. Stacy is now on "San Diego 1700" with Mark Larson as PD/morning host.

"Clear Channel does not "allocate" funds to any station."



Yes, they do give some of their air america/jones/nova-m outlets more promotional budges and more money to hire local hosts. If this was not the case, I would have never posted it! I don't come to these boards to lie and spread mistruth and slander. I have firsthand knowledge of this and that's why I posted it.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes, they do give some of their air america/jones/nova-m outlets more promotional budges and more money to hire local hosts. If this was not the case, I would have never posted it! I don't come to these boards to lie and spread mistruth and slander. I have firsthand knowledge of this and that's why I posted it.

You are using non-standard terms in a non-standard way.

Each cluster budgets for each year, and the budget includes all expenses and all revenues. The corporate office does not assign promotional budgets, although they approve them... just as happens in every commercial radio company.

The Portland station would find a higher promotional budget for an Air America station acceptable, while San Diego would not because of revenue potential based on format acceptance and signal coverage.