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Wasted 50KW AM Signals
- Thread starter MediaBoy4Radio
- Start date
How About a National Topic on the Coast-to-Coast Board?
Ken, the WWKB topic has been beaten to death repeatedly on the Buffalo/Niagara Falls board. Resurrecting it serves no purpose, and it's a local topic for Buffalo/Niagara Falls, not a national topic.
If you want to talk about other wasted 50KW signals, then I suggest that you add your observations to this post instead of going to the Buffalo/Niagara Falls board. In truth, the real topic might be whether 50KW AM signals need to exist anymore, or if they have become an anachronism now that there has been a significant expansion of FM in rural areas, and there are other alternatives (like the Internet) for news and information. Do we really need clear channels anymore?
Ken, the WWKB topic has been beaten to death repeatedly on the Buffalo/Niagara Falls board. Resurrecting it serves no purpose, and it's a local topic for Buffalo/Niagara Falls, not a national topic.
If you want to talk about other wasted 50KW signals, then I suggest that you add your observations to this post instead of going to the Buffalo/Niagara Falls board. In truth, the real topic might be whether 50KW AM signals need to exist anymore, or if they have become an anachronism now that there has been a significant expansion of FM in rural areas, and there are other alternatives (like the Internet) for news and information. Do we really need clear channels anymore?
I'm a weather nut. I hate reading about folks who have lost their lives due to bad weather. A lot of people are aware of the tornado season in KS,OK, TX,NE etc that starts in April. There's a secondary an more deadly tornado season in the winter that hits MS, AL, GA, FL but most of the tornados are at night.
It seems like there should be at least 1 (maybe 2 50 kw stations) in these underserved states. It would be (possibly) 1 more way to warn folks to get out of harm's way if they can.
In any event the days of NYC, Chi etc needing multiple 50kw stations is long gone. IF we are going to have 50kw stations, put them where they are needed.
It seems like there should be at least 1 (maybe 2 50 kw stations) in these underserved states. It would be (possibly) 1 more way to warn folks to get out of harm's way if they can.
In any event the days of NYC, Chi etc needing multiple 50kw stations is long gone. IF we are going to have 50kw stations, put them where they are needed.
H
Horns
Guest
vibe,
As a meteorologist, I agree with you. Here's an example of a 50kw station NOT serving the public when it was needed most. When thousands evacuated New Orleans in advance of Hurricane Katrina, these folks drove northward, many at night. The powerful signal of KWKH in Shreveport wasn't used to help provide needed emergency traffic and weather information to people on the highway. (I know how strong that signal is, I used to live in Central Texas and they blasted into the area at night.) KWKH kept on their computer automation system on that Sunday night and provided no critical news and information for North Louisiana and East Texas. Sad.
As a meteorologist, I agree with you. Here's an example of a 50kw station NOT serving the public when it was needed most. When thousands evacuated New Orleans in advance of Hurricane Katrina, these folks drove northward, many at night. The powerful signal of KWKH in Shreveport wasn't used to help provide needed emergency traffic and weather information to people on the highway. (I know how strong that signal is, I used to live in Central Texas and they blasted into the area at night.) KWKH kept on their computer automation system on that Sunday night and provided no critical news and information for North Louisiana and East Texas. Sad.
You just cited the ultimate waste of a 50kw signal. I get and listen to KWKH at night when I'm in FLA (about 1 hr N of Tampa). It's too bad they weren't able to step up to the plate in a crisis, particularly a slow moving one.
The secondary tornado season (jan-mar) in the South will be with us shortly and a lot of these tornados hit late at night....
The secondary tornado season (jan-mar) in the South will be with us shortly and a lot of these tornados hit late at night....
T
Those RRRRs
Guest
The biggest waste of a 50,000 Watter has to be CBS owned 1210 WPHT in Philly. This clear channel signal doesn't normally travel more than 50 miles in any direction, day or night.
Most believe that the ground system has eroded into extinction.
Most believe that the ground system has eroded into extinction.
50 kw and 50 miles? Sheesh.. The old 250 w RCA on 1080 in Valparaiso, IN used to put a fine signal here in Chicago, 50 miles away.
Maybe all the people in the near field have put up reasonant circuits and powering up stuff with it?
What could be the problem with even a new, junk-wire soldered together radial system laying on the ground?
How much could it cost on the super cheap? Cripes, I might even donate a spool of something conductive if they're that hard up.
I do believe there is much usefulness for 50 kw signals and clears. As someone who travels, I really prefer to keep in touch within the daytime 250-300 mile radius of 50kw non-directionals. I wouldn't expect a cellular data service to provide radio in so many places.
I'm using one now, which works fine in Chicago, but when I'm in Sleepy Eye, MN, I am real, real happy that 50kw stations exist.
I feel that any station having 50kw and not distinguishing itself in some way from sounding like "all the others" is a waste.
Maybe all the people in the near field have put up reasonant circuits and powering up stuff with it?
What could be the problem with even a new, junk-wire soldered together radial system laying on the ground?
How much could it cost on the super cheap? Cripes, I might even donate a spool of something conductive if they're that hard up.
I do believe there is much usefulness for 50 kw signals and clears. As someone who travels, I really prefer to keep in touch within the daytime 250-300 mile radius of 50kw non-directionals. I wouldn't expect a cellular data service to provide radio in so many places.
I'm using one now, which works fine in Chicago, but when I'm in Sleepy Eye, MN, I am real, real happy that 50kw stations exist.
I feel that any station having 50kw and not distinguishing itself in some way from sounding like "all the others" is a waste.
I've received a fine daytime signal near Old Saybrook Ct on 1210 Philly for their ball games. Maybe some ocean effect but the signal is listenable about 10-15 mi inland. A very clear station at night here near Worc, MA and down much of the east coast into SC. Makes frequent appearances in Englewood Fl at night
which is about 1000 mi OTA from Philly although it gets eaten up by the Carribean AM's.
which is about 1000 mi OTA from Philly although it gets eaten up by the Carribean AM's.
A
ABQTom
Guest
Radio Disney Phoenix 1580 KMIK is a wasted 50,000 frequency .... class B directional at night w/ 6 towers ....
Those RRRRs said:
i pick up wpht loud and clear at night here in boston.
ABQTom said:
Wasted? The signal was never competitive. 50 kw on 1580 in the desert covers very little. In fact, it does not put a full usable signal over all the Phoenix metro daytime, and at night misses about two-thirds of the market due to directionality. It's OK but not greast for a niche format like Disney, but has no hopes (and never did) of competing any other way.
Remember, given the same tower efficiency, same conductivity, 1 kw on 540 will cover as much as 50 kw on 1600.
Put in Phoenix terms, KFYI will cover more than double the area of KMIK daytime with 5 kw on 550. (double the coverage takes 4 times the power).
Those RRRRs said:
Let's not sound parochial by confusing WPHT's groundwave issues (which are very real) and their skywave pattern. The station's groundwave signal is awful. It can't seem to get out of its own way. I know their towers are just across the river in New Jersey, but they even come in crappy in the suburbs directly north of Philly (i.e. Willow Grove) and have a truly lousy signal in the market's wealthiest area (the Main Line in Montgomery and Chester counties). WPHT is gone by the time you get up to Newark, NJ - so there's not much of a signal premium on the east side of the river either. Meanwhile, New York signals are listenable day and night throughout the Philly market. Even WBBR at 1130.
But, ironically, I could WPHT louder at night in New Hampshire than I can in their own service area (Malvern). And, I've picked them up at night as far west as central Iowa - with a decent signal.
Furthermore, they have local talk in the evenings and provide news updates all night. The programming is fine. So, it's hardly a "wasted" signal - unlike some of the other examples provided here.
To me, a truly "wasted" 50 kw signal is WDCD 1540 Albany, NY. A 50 kw signal (mostly aimed northeastward) that provides nothing but automated bible thumping all day and all night. The Albany/Schenectady/Troy market is truly underserved by this signal which undoubtedly had far more listeners with its previous oldies format before Kimtron bought it and took it pentecostal.
Please excuse the long response delay... I just got here.
WDCD IS no doubt the worst offender in the region. I can only ditto the remarks. Truly a sad waste of propagation. I'll give WWZN 1510 Boston a second place finish in a photo. Another sad waste of power. Fox Sports got nuthin on ESPN in BeanTown. Its so bad that 'Brother Stairs' (aka Brother Scare) gets a time slot.
Well, for third place in a 2 horse race I'd have to go with WTIC in Hartford. Clear channel (frequency, not ownership) at its finest... NOT. With a State-wide contour, the LAST thing I want to hear is opinion radio. The last thing I want to hear is cookie-cutter AM/PM drives. Do us CT residents a full-service job and get off the networks. Remove the IBOC at night. The highway system in CT is FUBAR, local news is WAY underserved, and music of any type beyond bumpers is notoriously absent. Any 50kW staion that runs C2C overnite has problems of this type. Just tune up and down the band in CT, and tell me how many C2C stations you can receive WITHOUT WTIC. Quite appalling.
WDCD IS no doubt the worst offender in the region. I can only ditto the remarks. Truly a sad waste of propagation. I'll give WWZN 1510 Boston a second place finish in a photo. Another sad waste of power. Fox Sports got nuthin on ESPN in BeanTown. Its so bad that 'Brother Stairs' (aka Brother Scare) gets a time slot.
Well, for third place in a 2 horse race I'd have to go with WTIC in Hartford. Clear channel (frequency, not ownership) at its finest... NOT. With a State-wide contour, the LAST thing I want to hear is opinion radio. The last thing I want to hear is cookie-cutter AM/PM drives. Do us CT residents a full-service job and get off the networks. Remove the IBOC at night. The highway system in CT is FUBAR, local news is WAY underserved, and music of any type beyond bumpers is notoriously absent. Any 50kW staion that runs C2C overnite has problems of this type. Just tune up and down the band in CT, and tell me how many C2C stations you can receive WITHOUT WTIC. Quite appalling.
G5-G6 said:
Also very sad that these were both at one time legendary stations...WPTR-1540 and WMEX-1510....
Pat Cook said:ANY station running Radio Disney is a wasted station REGARDLESS of the power level. If someone can point out a successful Radio Disney affiliate, I've got a bridge to sell 'em.*heheh* *LOL!*
I believe Disney considers them all to be successful.
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