Wasted signals

[davideduardo]

People who post about repetition in oldies and classic rock do not tend to be typical listeners and represent a rather extreme fringe that can't be pleased anyway.

Yet another attempt at maligning and marginalizing us.

No, just putting chartists and fanatics in perspective. It's a very small group who want to hear lots of songs that the average person does not want to hear. And broadcasting is about averages as it can not cater to unique and individual tastes.

When you have a group of 100 of your listeners and potential listeners assembled to listen and score songs, and 99 of them hate a song and one person likes it, you don't play it no matter how much that single person likes the song.

Anyone here who has ever been "tested," raise your hand. (I didn't think so.)

The time-frame probability of being selected to be in the Arbitron sample in a diary market is about once in every 80 to 90 years, provided you don't change name or move or, today, change your cellular provider or move to newly built housing.

Like the ratings and polls, it does not take a huge sample to get highly reliable, usable results.

 

[davideduardo]

WSM... So they were never wall-to-wall country anyway. And they only went full-time country sometime in the last 20-30 years. They were actually AC (at least in the daytime) back in the '70s.

And prior to it's AC period, WSM was a fairly conventional network affiliate until Television took away the audience for the old-line networks.

The Opry was an important additional feature, and made very successful weekend use of the night time strips where the big network shows ran Monday to Friday.

The biggest change in the usage of clear channel stations came when 6 AM to 7 PM became radio's prime time, and nights became throw-away time with little use of radio. The clears had their biggest advantage in the night skywave coverage when radio was a night-time medium, and that era ended about 60 years ago when the FCC lifted the TV freeze.

 

[spunker88]

WWKBW 1520 in Buffalo might qualify for the list.   

But it seems that time has passed them by,  too.    It might've happened as far back as thirty years.   Yet that huge signal remains.    In winter months they often BOOM into NE PA here before the sun is set,   louder than any of our county's AM stations.

I forget the exact wording of their cheery,  60's promotional phrase.   It went something like they were 'heard in 58 states and 16 provinces ' .....
No doubt they were!    Lore has it that they'd show up in ratings books all over the place,    particularly at night.

That signal is still covering all that real estate.   
But for whom ?

At nights here,   WWKBW is there with Alan Colmes and Phil Hendrie for the occasional talk-show fare.
Yawn.   Colmes is a sometimes-funny motormouth,   glib and chipmunkish.    Hendrie and his 'sidekicks' is a bore.    To me,  this is not nighttime radio.     Play some music,  guys.    Do some Joey Reynolds.

Oh,  wait.   WWKBW tried Oldies about a decade ago.    Even with Jackson Armstrong doing his 200-MPH thing at night,    this once classic signal got like a 0.6.

               

Seems like Entercom could put something better on 1520's signal. 1520 is Entercom's lowest rated station in Buffalo struggling to get an Arbitron 1.0. Entercom's WWWS 1400, a 745 watt urban/rythmic oldies station is beating WWKB by a bit. Why doesn't Entercom switch these two stations? The better signal would probably improve the ratings for WWWS and WWKB can't really do much worse. Plus the format change would give us some music to listen to over skywave.

But, they are the best skywave signal that carries Syracuse Orange sports, thats about the only time I'll ever listen to them.

 

[fybush]

With its tower near the NY 33/NY 198 interchange, 1400 is almost perfectly located to serve the in-city audience the format is targeting. 1520 actually delivers a much lower signal level to that area, despite the higher power. It's one of those "ya gotta be there to understand" situations.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

WKBW used to have a "coverage map" of sorts that showed that people were listening in Europe. Anyone have a link to that? It was online somewhere. I guess if you used the 50 uV/m 1% skywave, it might reach Europe.

 

[radioman148]

WKBW used to have a "coverage map" of sorts that showed that people were listening in Europe. Anyone have a link to that? It was online somewhere. I guess if you used the 50 uV/m 1% skywave, it might reach Europe.

"KB" still reaches Europe as I've heard it on a couple of Global Tuner nodes in the UK the last few winters.

 

[gar hi]

The old 'KB Radio 15' was the station that got me interested in DXing when I was growing up.

At night, they sounded almost like a local in New Jersey. Many an afternoon in winter, I'd listen for them to start coming in and many a morning, I'd listen to them fade away.

I can sometimes hear WWKB here in Tampa at night but the signal is weak and short lasting when it comes in.

Here's and old coverage map of WKBW that shows daytime and nighttime.

http://wkbwradio.com/coverage.htm

Being the direction they put out their signal, you wouldn't expect to hear it at all in Florida or the Midwest but some here from the Midwest say they can hear it too.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbe2c7XysnU

This video pans the "coverage map" of WKBW showing Europe from 0:59 to 1:15 in the "Rats In My Room" video. "Rats In My Room" was released as the B side of "The Joey Reynolds Theme" by The Four Seasons.

 

[radioman148]

The old 'KB Radio 15' was the station that got me interested in DXing when I was growing up.

At night, they sounded almost like a local in New Jersey. Many an afternoon in winter, I'd listen for them to start coming in and many a morning, I'd listen to them fade away.

I can sometimes hear WWKB here in Tampa at night but the signal is weak and short lasting when it comes in.

Here's and old coverage map of WKBW that shows daytime and nighttime.

http://wkbwradio.com/coverage.htm

Being the direction they put out their signal, you wouldn't expect to hear it at all in Florida or the Midwest but some here from the Midwest say they can hear it too.

At my location in the Chicago area WKBW was always weak when I could hear it. KOMA usually was well on top.

 

[firepoint525]

People who post about repetition in oldies and classic rock do not tend to be typical listeners and represent a rather extreme fringe that can't be pleased anyway. Yet another attempt at maligning and marginalizing us.

No, just putting chartists and fanatics in perspective. It's a very small group who want to hear lots of songs that the average person does not want to hear. And broadcasting is about averages as it can not cater to unique and individual tastes.
When you have a group of 100 of your listeners and potential listeners assembled to listen and score songs, and 99 of them hate a song and one person likes it, you don't play it no matter how much that single person likes the song.

Anyone here who has ever been "tested," raise your hand. (I didn't think so.)

The time-frame probability of being selected to be in the Arbitron sample in a diary market is about once in every 80 to 90 years, provided you don't change name or move or, today, change your cellular provider or move to newly built housing.
Like the ratings and polls, it does not take a huge sample to get highly reliable, usable results.

I wish that the stations would also test ALL elements of their broadcast programming, and not JUST the music. They might find out that there is very little demand for those stupid morning shows (like Bob & Tom, John Boy & Billy, etc.) that they force upon us. : If just one bad song is a tuneout, then what about four or five hours of lame, NON-musical programming every morning? :

 

[w9wi]

WSM... So they were never wall-to-wall country anyway. And they only went full-time country sometime in the last 20-30 years. They were actually AC (at least in the daytime) back in the '70s.

And prior to it's AC period, WSM was a fairly conventional network affiliate until Television took away the audience for the old-line networks.

The Opry was an important additional feature, and made very successful weekend use of the night time strips where the big network shows ran Monday to Friday.

The biggest change in the usage of clear channel stations came when 6 AM to 7 PM became radio's prime time, and nights became throw-away time with little use of radio. The clears had their biggest advantage in the night skywave coverage when radio was a night-time medium, and that era ended about 60 years ago when the FCC lifted the TV freeze.

I wonder if WSM's slow move out of the country music format might actually lead to the demise of the Opry? (at least as a radio program, I suspect it would survive as a weekly live show & webcast even if not broadcast on WSM)

Eventually, the country format is not going to be commercially sustainable.

- If WSM had flipped to news/talk early, the Opry would have been sustainable as a weekend night specialty program. There's little listenership to news/talk in those time slots & the Opry would probably be more profitable than sticking with the format. But WSM didn't flip to news/talk. Today, we have two powerful news/talk outlets in Nashville, one on FM. One belongs to Cumulus, the other to Clear Channel. WSM would find it difficult to impossible to compete.

- If WSM had flipped to sports, the Opry probably would have been sustainable but later at night. Too many sporting events would have run into the show's existing time slot. In any case, WSM didn't flip -- and today, we have two powerful all-sports stations in Nashville, both on FM. (three, if you count an FM translator) WSM would find it impossible to compete today.

Eventually, WSM is going to find it impossible to continue as-is. But what are the station's options?

- Try to compete with a Clear Channel talker & a Cumulus talker, with all the big names tied up.
- Try to compete with two FM sports stations. (WSM's signal may go out forever but the FMs, especially 104.5, have a far better signal indoors in Nashville and the suburbs)
- Flip to ??? Probably religion. Maybe Hispanic? (there is no Hispanic FM station in Nashville)
- Some have speculated the Country Music Hall of Fame (basically, the music industry) would take it over & operate it as a kind of "community" station, expecting it only to break even.

Here's my speculation: Sell it to Clear Channel, who moves WLAC from 1510 to 650 & then sells 1510 to one of the smaller AM operators in the market.

I'm 54 and strongly suspect I'll live to see the day when we no longer hear country music on 650.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

At my location in the Chicago area WKBW was always weak when I could hear it. KOMA usually was well on top.

KOMA is now KOKC. And a good nominee for wasted signal. KOMA was a great oldies station in the 00's. Then it went to low IQ talk.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I wish that the stations would also test ALL elements of their broadcast programming, and not JUST the music. They might find out that there is very little demand for those stupid morning shows (like Bob & Tom, John Boy & Billy, etc.) that they force upon us. : If just one bad song is a tuneout, then what about four or five hours of lame, NON-musical programming every morning? :

FINALLY somebody said it! Those inane morning shows - I tune them all out. I want MUSIC not some slob with an IQ of 40 talking about whatever comes to their mind - which isn't much.

 

[radioman148]

At my location in the Chicago area WKBW was always weak when I could hear it. KOMA usually was well on top.

KOMA is now KOKC. And a good nominee for wasted signal. KOMA was a great oldies station in the 00's. Then it went to low IQ talk.

Right, I'm talking back to the 60s & 70s. When I used to tune in 1520 back then it was usually KOMA dominating at night in the Chicago area.

 

[gar hi]

I wish that the stations would also test ALL elements of their broadcast programming, and not JUST the music. They might find out that there is very little demand for those stupid morning shows (like Bob & Tom, John Boy & Billy, etc.) that they force upon us. Roll Eyes If just one bad song is a tuneout, then what about four or five hours of lame, NON-musical programming every morning? Roll Eyes

I hear that.

No matter what city it is, those morning shows all sound exactly the same.

"Be caller #10 and you win a boob job! Ha ha."

Radio is so cookie cutter these days and that's what 'the people want'? I don't t think so.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I wish that the stations would also test ALL elements of their broadcast programming, and not JUST the music. They might find out that there is very little demand for those stupid morning shows (like Bob & Tom, John Boy & Billy, etc.) that they force upon us. Roll Eyes If just one bad song is a tuneout, then what about four or five hours of lame, NON-musical programming every morning? Roll Eyes

I hear that.

No matter what city it is, those morning shows all sound exactly the same.

"Be caller #10 and you win a boob job! Ha ha."

Radio is so cookie cutter these days and that's what 'the people want'? I don't t think so.

The way I judge a morning show - start with an IQ of 120. Subtract 10 points for each of the following:

- mention of the word "boob" - except when talking about an ignorant individual
- mention of anybody named "Kardashian"
- mention of farts
- mention of any right wing / left wing opinion
- mention of any sports story
- mention of Lindsey Lohan, Amanda Bynes, or any other troubled celebrity

When you get below 70, tune out and find a station playing music.

 

[gar hi]

When Howard Stern was on WNBC afternoons way back in the 80s, he was hilarious.

He was an original and none of that stuff had ever been done.

Seems a lot (but certainly not all) of the morning shows even now are trying to take after him.


Speaking of original, another was Dr. Don Rose mornings at WFIL in the early 70s. Then he left and a couple years later the first time I visited my brother in California, there he was on KFRC where he was even funnier.

I would listen to him every morning all the times I visited out there. He had such a unique sense of humor. A real good guy too.

Probably every major city had a morning guy back then who did his own thing and was an original.

Those days seem to be long gone.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

One of the earlier posters (about eight pages ago) partly gave the definition of a wasted signal as being in the ear of the beholder.

But Firepoint pulls another earsore in the door by its ear -- programming elements.
You could say that any station on Thursdays and Fridays who take those heavy commercial loads .... and puts them all in a blender to spew at 15 elements per break .... have wasted that signal, right?
Stern and Imus were the worst at this tuneout cue because they were the least disciplined and would let things back up. I'm not a fan of the morning-zoo stuff, either, but I idly tuned in Imus one morning on WFAN. It was, iIrc, about 9:42.
Gawd's truf, reverend: There ensued a solid eighteen minutes of commercials to the top of the hour and the WFAN sportscast.
I've heard Stern was even worse at times, with a few spots actually repeated in one of these bulldozed situations.

In the major markets, those times when a station would try to program far enough into a 'bonus' quarter hour to get credit for it are like today's version of the trolleycar. You can't fool the PPMs.
Hence, it has to be technically easier than ever for a cluster company to adjust the program logs at each of their stations to play both to the benefit of the company's secondary station plus play the music and entertainment when the competitor's 12-minute auctions are going off. You can have (for example) your top-rated A/C station cut for commercials in morning drive or midday at the same time your CHR is going into music, when the less wild stuff is apt to clash more safely.

So, that nightmarish cacophany of a massive commercial marathon, while being a waste of a signal, can be regarded as a minimal risk. The second car button might be a Classic Hits station, so they get clicked. The 'wasted' signal can benefit a sister station. And vice-versa.

In other words, the spot clutter problem isn't going away.

Neither is the lemminglike/copycat morning show stuff like Bob & Bob, Scott & Scott, Mike, Mike & Mike, et al. If there is nothing much else on, the least-mediocre of the indifferent lot often will get to boast about #1 ratings.

 

[firepoint525]

- Flip to ??? Probably religion. Maybe Hispanic? (there is no Hispanic FM station in Nashville)

We indirectly have one, part-time, via translator: WAMB (simulcast on 99.3) is Hispanic during overnight hours. I always figured that this was how we would get our first Hispanic station on FM.

I'm 54 and strongly suspect I'll live to see the day when we no longer hear country music on 650.

I will hit the big 5-0 my next birthday, and I believe as you do.

 

[firepoint525]

I wish that the stations would also test ALL elements of their broadcast programming, and not JUST the music. They might find out that there is very little demand for those stupid morning shows (like Bob & Tom, John Boy & Billy, etc.) that they force upon us. : If just one bad song is a tuneout, then what about four or five hours of lame, NON-musical programming every morning? :

FINALLY somebody said it! Those inane morning shows - I tune them all out. I want MUSIC not some slob with an IQ of 40 talking about whatever comes to their mind - which isn't much.

Thanks, Bruce. I have been saying that for years! Including here. But it often gets buried among a page of replies and is never noticed.

To your 10-point scale, I would also add a deduction of 10 points for laughing at lame jokes, 20 points if laughing at one's own jokes! :