Wasted signals

[pianoplayer88key]

so for a "decade"-'s song....

For example,
if the artist wrote it on November 24, 1989,
recorded it in multiple sessions from December 29, 1989, to January 3, 1990,
and released it on the radio (as a single) or in stores (on an album) on February 7, 1990,

Is it an 80s song, or a 90s song?



As for my ideas of wasted signals...

These include directional AM stations near the coasts that send huge lobes out to sea. Saltwater conductivity is high enough already - you don't need 500kW ERP on a site a few miles inland to put a 5 uV/m groundwave signal a couple miles offshore, where nobody would likely be listening anyway. Exceptions of course would be places where there's a saltwater path between two places on land, like San Diego to Santa Barbara, or New York to Cape Cod.

Also I'd include stations licensed to a smaller city, but targetting a nearby larger city, doing comparatively nothing for their COL (except mentioning them in the buried legal ID at TOH). I kinda wish this practice would stop. Either get licensed to the larger city, or target your own smaller COL.

In one type of case, if a station's licensed to a smaller COL and doesn't re-license to the larger city, I think they should...
put no more than a 1 mV/m signal (or whatever would be an easily listenable signal to a DXer with little to moderate noise on a portable, assuming a not-too-noisy location in a house) to any spot within the larger city's limits (exceptions of course allowed where the COL borders the larger city, as you legally have to have 5 mV/m covering the COL and can't have a "step" down in field strength at a particular spot - I guess the closest you could come is build a directional array right on the border),
have no more than 50 uV/m signal (or whatever would be faint on a portable, but still barely copyable for a DXer if he concentrates on it in his headphones, in an outdoor park away from noise sources) in the downtown / prime target area of the larger city, and,
have less than 2 uV/m signal (or whatever results in a barely-detectable carrier using a beverage antenna and communications receiver, in an area with virtually no manmade noise present) over at least 12.5% of the large city.

In the other type of case, if a company owned a small station licensed to a small city, but they desire targetting a large city, they should have to change their COL (or stop targetting), AND sacrifice one of their big stations. For example, this might include something like the following (assuming the same company owned both stations - in the example below I don't believe so)
Re-license something like KMZT-AM or KROQ-FM (whichever bills less and/or has the smaller geographic signal footprint) to Los Angeles
Donate a station like KFI-AM or KIIS-FM (whichever bills more and/or has the larger geographical footprint) to a non-profit entity - for example a church whose membership is the size mentioned in Matthew 18:20 ("For where two or three are gathered together in My name," - Jesus speaking, btw - "there am I in the midst of them.") and whose pastoral staff is "not greedy for money" (ref. 1 Timothy 3:3&8 and Titus 1:7, NKJV) and follows the apostle Paul's example mentioned in 2 Corinthians 2:17.

As for wasted signals based on various formats, that's up to the ear of the beholder. I happen to enjoy traditional (non-rock) Christian music / classic worship music, lighter/slower 50s oldies and a quite a few Radio Disney songs, as well as some classical music (especially if piano is featured prominently), formats which not many people in general population seem to enjoy.

 

[charlestondxman]

Getting back to the topic of the thread: There's some markets where companies waste stations and put satellite formats on them that sound like they're coming from a broom closet. Think of your average market (even a top 100 market like where I live)

On AM you have a news-talk station with Rush, Hannity, local stuff during one or both drive-times, and a group of shows to fill the rest of the day (in a lot of places its moved to FM). You have a sports station from ESPN or CBS that is all satellite except for local games and one or two local shows. There's another one or two talk stations that pick up the scraps left by You have a couple religious/gospel stations. You have one or two other sports stations that pick up the smaller networks. There's usually at least a couple Spanish signals. You may have a niche format like oldies, classic country or standards. Larger markets have Radio Disney.

On FM, you have your urban signal, usually at least one (and depending on where you are, many more). You have at least two country stations, owned by competing companies (my market has 3 100kw country stations). You have a CHR controlled by a national company. There's a variety hits "Jack" signal. There's classic rock with those tightly focused playlists. An AC signal or two. There's several Hispanic formats in any larger market. If AM is bad in a market, the top news-talk signal is on FM. In the South, there's a sports station on FM in most markets. Contemporary christian is popular (WayFM, K-Love or one of the other networks). There's several signals that run some other form of rock.

For non-commercial stations, you have your NPR signal running jazz, classical or talk, often controlled by a university or a state network. You have your religious FMs from Family, BBN, or locally owned signals. The local university might own a station and run a free-form format.

This is what it is like in a good portion of markets across America. There are very few niche formats on FM radio in the top 100 markets. AM is where the listeners go for niche formats.

 

[firepoint525]

My guess is that the single was released at the end of 1979 and the album released in 1980.

I remember very well when Heart of Glass was a big single. It was released in the early part of 1979, peaked as high as it would get in the spring, and was well gone off the charts by the end of the year.
The album it's from was released in the fall of 1978.
Doesn't belong at all in the category of 80s.

Right, and by the end of 1979, they had also had "One Way or Another," and "Dreaming," both of which had also peaked by 1980. "Heart of Glass" was #1 for the week of April 28, 1979, near the tail end of my freshman year of high school.

I get the feeling that '80s stations would rather play something like "Heart of Glass," and try to pass it off as being from the '80s, rather than play a modest hit from, say, 1982. Again, it is okay to play from outside of one's own decade; just don't try to pass it off as being from that decade. Our '80s station (when we had one) was "best '80s and more," so I suppose that the late '70s and early '90s was part of the "more."

At any rate, go with the copyright on the record if you want to know what year something was released. In the case (especially) of second, third, and fourth singles, it may become a hit in the following year, but it was still released in the year in which it was copyrighted.

 

[vibe]

After reading all the posts, I kinda want to chime in. To me a wasted signal is one that I won't listen to, clear and simple. That includes FM's that play the same tired old crappe from Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac. WhWhen they play Hendrix it;s the same 2-3 songs. When's the last time you heard "are you experienced?"
Also includes stations that are doing infomercials and preaching (short definition-religious fundraising) and talk stations that have their own adjenda.
So I don't listen much anymore unless I want some sports talk or some music from a non repeative playlist that includes virtually ALL formats.

 

[crainbebo]

Hotel California, Lyin' Eyes, One of these Nights, Heartache Tonight, Life in the Fast Lane - Eagles songs that are played to DEATH!

-crainbebo

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I guess most of the New York City AMs are wasted then? There are only four that are nondirectional in the daytime, and just three at night. Since Long Island has very poor conductivity, blasting the signal over it is about the only way to have the signal heard. There are many places, in apartments and other buildings, where 100 mV/m outside is barely enough to be heard. I hardly think such a signal is wasted, especially if there are millions of people between the array and the coast or shoreline. I did a study for one station that had an NIF of 30 mV/m and poor ground conductivity, there was just three or four miles between the array and the lake shoreline, and there was no good reason to try to improve the signal from the existing location. There was no area on the other side that would benefit. The best they could do was to move further away with more power and take in more people at night. That's what you have to look at. How far inland could you go and benefit, but still eventually go out into the ocean? But if there are no people, there is no point. And with a really high NIF, you still can't go very far.

 

[gar hi]

After reading all the posts, I kinda want to chime in. To me a wasted signal is one that I won't listen to, clear and simple. That includes FM's that play the same tired old crappe from Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac. WhWhen they play Hendrix it;s the same 2-3 songs. When's the last time you heard "are you experienced?"

I think the most over played song on classic rock stations is Ramble On by Led Zeppelin. How many times do we have to hear that? What about Whole Lotta Love which was the song that put them on the map.

 

[cyberdad]

These include directional AM stations near the coasts that send huge lobes out to sea. Saltwater conductivity is high enough already - you don't need 500kW ERP on a site a few miles inland to put a 5 uV/m groundwave signal a couple miles offshore, where nobody would likely be listening anyway.

During my year in high school in Honolulu, an engineer told me KCBQ in San Diego did this when they went up to 50kw to impress (or should I say fool) buyers at ad agencies who had never heard of DAs, much less know any better. ......And it worked!

 

[Time Traveler]

I guess most of the New York City AMs are wasted then? There are only four that are nondirectional in the daytime, and just three at night.

That logic would apply to Boston as well...Except for WBZ-1030.....At least at night....these 50 kw signals also blast across Boston only....and out to sea....
680
850
1510

 

[gar hi]

I guess most of the New York City AMs are wasted then?

Radio listeners in Bermuda might disagree. That includes day as well as night listening. ;D

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

A buddy* of mine jocked at WGLI 1290 on Long Island. He says that they had regular listeners in Bermuda in the day.
That's back when they would have been pretty-next-to ZBM1 on 1235 on the Pembroke Bermuda dial.

WGLI's 5000 daytime watts had to protect WAVZ New Haven, and WADO 1280 in NYC. They really shoehorned in that station to get it full-time. They could send nothing west or north. They could only go east and/or south. And that's certainly where they sent it.

At night, on both sides of their nulls, you could see their three blinking towers but not hear much of anything but splash from WADO. It all was sent SE from the site NW of Babylon, through the COL, and then on out to sea. Engineers here might be able to approximate the power along that SE beam. It had to be effectively a lot more than 5000 watts. Bermuda just happened to be in the way.

* I had no idea I was calling up a jock one day who would later become my closest radio buddy. He was doing a swap-shop program. Using a passably thick Slavic accent, I phoned in a goof call from Wantagh (that's pronounced WONN-taww, btw) and what I had to sell were seventy cartons of Marlboro cigarettes in my trunk from a trip to North Carolina.

 

[davideduardo]

During my year in high school in Honolulu, an engineer told me KCBQ in San Diego did this when they went up to 50kw to impress (or should I say fool) buyers at ad agencies who had never heard of DAs, much less know any better. ......And it worked!

While power and out-of-market coverage was important to advertisers up into the early 50's, by the time KCBQ went from 5 kw d / 1 kw n to 50 kw d / 5 kw n in the late 50's, there was little interest by time buyers in out of market coverage and most time buying was based on local market radio ratings.

While saying you had 50,000 watts might have been an added plus to a pitch, the reality was that San Diego was growing rapidly in population and geography in that time period and the power was needed to cover the market.

Like so many coastal AMs, pumping power over the population and out to sea was a great way to get a clear usable signal over the population.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

A buddy* of mine jocked at WGLI 1290 on Long Island. He says that they had regular listeners in Bermuda in the day.
That's back when they would have been pretty-next-to ZBM1 on 1235 on the Pembroke Bermuda dial.

WGLI's 5000 daytime watts had to protect WAVZ New Haven, and WADO 1280 in NYC. They really shoehorned in that station to get it full-time. They could send nothing west or north. They could only go east and/or south. And that's certainly where they sent it.

At night, on both sides of their nulls, you could see their three blinking towers but not hear much of anything but splash from WADO. It all was sent SE from the site NW of Babylon, through the COL, and then on out to sea. Engineers here might be able to approximate the power along that SE beam. It had to be effectively a lot more than 5000 watts. Bermuda just happened to be in the way.

* I had no idea I was calling up a jock one day who would later become my closest radio buddy. He was doing a swap-shop program. Using a passably thick Slavic accent, I phoned in a goof call from Wantagh (that's pronounced WONN-taww, btw) and what I had to sell were seventy cartons of Marlboro cigarettes in my trunk from a trip to North Carolina.

I knew Bill Lee and his son Dave from Beck Ross Communications back in the day. Dave always talked about WGLI/WBLI. Many people would have not adjusted to moving to WKMF/WGMZ in Flint. They jumped right in and made Flint a better place for their presence, along with Bill's wife, Evelyn Newman Lee. It was a great place to live back then. Lees eventually bought the stations themsleves from Beck Ross, now WFNT and WCRZ Cars 108. The Cars 108 name was reportedly Dave's idea. Later, Joel Fairman, another Long Islander, bought the stations, which are now owned by Townsquare.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

A typical 3 tower array with quarter wave spacing and height with two nulls perpendicular to the towers and two off the back has a maximum of about five times the input power based on minimum Class B efficiency. A 5000 watt station would typically have a maximum equivalent to about 25000 watts, which would drop down to a 5000 equivalent at 60 degrees to the maximum. Off the back, you typically get 250 watt to 1000 watt equivalent minor lobes, depending on exact design.

 

[cyberdad]

During my year in high school in Honolulu, an engineer told me KCBQ in San Diego did this when they went up to 50kw to impress (or should I say fool) buyers at ad agencies who had never heard of DAs, much less know any better. ......And it worked!

While power and out-of-market coverage was important to advertisers up into the early 50's, by the time KCBQ went from 5 kw d / 1 kw n to 50 kw d / 5 kw n in the late 50's, there was little interest by time buyers in out of market coverage and most time buying was based on local market radio ratings.
While saying you had 50,000 watts might have been an added plus to a pitch, the reality was that San Diego was growing rapidly in population and geography in that time period and the power was needed to cover the market.

Like so many coastal AMs, pumping power over the population and out to sea was a great way to get a clear usable signal over the population.

I can only go by what the guy told me. IICRC this was an engineer at KTRG Radio and TV (990 and Ch 13), where I was part of a Junior Achievement program.

So, just out of curiosity, I went to your excellent site and the 1960 Broadcasting Yearbook and did a quick count of ads from (or about) radio stations from two states I picked at random....Florida and Georgia. By my quick run-through I counted 18 such ads....7 of which mentioned station power. An eighth ad (from WSUN) had a coverage map depicting most of the west coast of the Florida peninsula. I then scrolled through a few more states, and noticed that the ads from the 50,000 watt stations all made mention of that power.

In other words, from what I could see when it came to power....those that had it flaunted it!

So not to contradict your point, it may be that media buyers had gotten past using station power as a metric by the late 50s, but the broadcasters (perhaps behind the curve) still weren't shy in talking about it. And going back to that engineer telling me that KCBQ's power increase "worked" with buyers, my guess is that at minimum it probably helped as a door-opener. I certainly agree that sending a directional signal over a populated area and then out to sea is an effective way to obtain optimal coverage.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Probably the reason power isn't advertised or talked about anymore is the public aversion to anything truly technical. Even computer jargon has been replaced by meaningless nontechnical terms.

There were plenty of AM stations talking about their power in the 1960s and 1970s. 5000 watts on AM still meant something.

 

[davideduardo]

So not to contradict your point, it may be that media buyers had gotten past using station power as a metric by the late 50s, but the broadcasters (perhaps behind the curve) still weren't shy in talking about it. And going back to that engineer telling me that KCBQ's power increase "worked" with buyers, my guess is that at minimum it probably helped as a door-opener.

I think you are absolutely right about stations wanting to brag about something that buyers, at some point, cared little about.

Coverage maps, once a vital part of any sales kit and presentation, are significantly less used. And when they are presented, they tend to be "artsy" renderings with beaches or mountains or oil wells or whatever landmarks are prevalent in the community.

While saying "we increased out power tenfold" may have worked for a while for KCBQ, it still came down to ratings in those rated markets. But, of course, the feeling must have been, "if you've got it, flaunt it".

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Footnote to the WGLI saga, and its southeast megaphone signal

This highly directional 1290 station was bought out by WADO 1280 around 1989, so WADO could better reach the growing Hispanic populations of places such as Bay Shore and Brentwood. Bay Shore was one community in the WGLI signal day and night.
WADO just shut them off after buying them.

But WADO 's intention to service those places wound up running head-first into the home office of that signal-smothering ground conductivity part of southeast Nassau County.

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WADO&service=AM&status=L&hours=D

That is not a purposeful null toward Freeport on the map. That's just where every NYC station on AM winds up getting plunged.

WGLI's three sticks were just under the 'r' in Brentwood.
And that area between WADO's red contour and the purple contour that way was, really, WGLI's actual coverage area to the southeast. In effect, WADO 1280 gave a lot of money to the WGLI ownership in return for the rights to boom into a space they couldn't reach anyway !

(I mischievously credit/blame that poor ground conductivity to the thousands of cement clabs that were sunken in when they built the original Levittown and, later, neighboring East Meadow at that spot)

The estimate here is that WGLI served (daytime) about fifty actual square miles out of Long Island's 1200 square miles of land, and perhaps pre-heated seafood in 20,000 square miles miles of salt water.

Along with Bermuda.

 

[davideduardo]

This highly directional 1290 station was bought out by WADO 1280 around 1989, so WADO could better reach the growing Hispanic populations of places such as Bay Shore and Brentwood.

That's a pretty common version of the WADO / WGLI story. But the real reason for the silencing of WGLI was so WADO could improve its signal over Manhattan and the Boroughs, where the 5 kw signal high on the dial was not penetrating well.

One of the effects of increasing power where it was wanted would have been prohibited overlap with WGLI. So the solution to the problem was to buy and silence the adjacent channel station.

The sad part of the WADO upgrade was the elimination of one of the few remaining Blaw Knox diamond shaped towers such as those at WLW and WSM.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Looking at some measured radials on line, it may well be that if Long Island's 0.5 mmhos/m conductivity, if based on measured and not estimated conductivity based on soil type, may indeed be due to the development. The Lees from Beck Ross copied an old map from 1952 for me which showed a sizable "dent" in the major lobe of WKMF. That dent became deeper by 1959, when the day power was increased to 5000 watts and the pattern swept back to keep the minor lobes about the same size as they were with 1000 watts. Jeremy Ruck did another such contour measurement circa 2000 for WKMF/WFNT which showed an even deeper dent in the major lobe. And no, there was no "null" in the pattern there, it is in the maximum direction, which was over the heaviest developed areas.

There is also a measured contour in the WCCW 1310 application for 50000 watts daytime for WOOD 1300, which showed a radial which was 1 mmhos/m in an area which shows 8 mmhos/m on the M-3 Map. This was across a developed area, but also followed a lead of poor conductivity sand and gravel soil shown on a Quaternary Geological Survey Map of Michigan.

I was once told that Long Island was basically a big rock, and that was why the conductivity was 0.5 mmhos/m.