1
12-31-72
Guest
Anyone use Waves plugs?
If so, what do you use the S-1 for? I've read the manual and it's still Greek to me.
If so, what do you use the S-1 for? I've read the manual and it's still Greek to me.
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Which S-1? Shuffler, Matrix or Imager?
I have no use whatsoever for the Matrix...I find that the shuffler is nice to make music a little louder without increasing the amplitude. Just a little widening will make it appear louder....Especially when combined with a hard limiter (L1, L2 or L3).
> Anyone use Waves plugs?
>
> If so, what do you use the S-1 for? I've read the manual
> and it's still Greek to me.
>
I have no use whatsoever for the Matrix...I find that the shuffler is nice to make music a little louder without increasing the amplitude. Just a little widening will make it appear louder....Especially when combined with a hard limiter (L1, L2 or L3).
> Anyone use Waves plugs?
>
> If so, what do you use the S-1 for? I've read the manual
> and it's still Greek to me.
>
1
12-31-72
Guest
Yeah, I mean the Shuffler.
So I guess all it does is "widen" the sound?
> Which S-1? Shuffler, Matrix or Imager?
>
> I have no use whatsoever for the Matrix...I find that the
> shuffler is nice to make music a little louder without
> increasing the amplitude. Just a little widening will make
> it appear louder....Especially when combined with a hard
> limiter (L1, L2 or L3).
>
>
>
>
> > Anyone use Waves plugs?
> >
> > If so, what do you use the S-1 for? I've read the manual
> > and it's still Greek to me.
> >
>
So I guess all it does is "widen" the sound?
> Which S-1? Shuffler, Matrix or Imager?
>
> I have no use whatsoever for the Matrix...I find that the
> shuffler is nice to make music a little louder without
> increasing the amplitude. Just a little widening will make
> it appear louder....Especially when combined with a hard
> limiter (L1, L2 or L3).
>
>
>
>
> > Anyone use Waves plugs?
> >
> > If so, what do you use the S-1 for? I've read the manual
> > and it's still Greek to me.
> >
>
> Yeah, I mean the Shuffler.
> So I guess all it does is "widen" the sound?
>
It does a little more than that. I don't completely understand the science of shuffling, but it can make a file sound more separated without actually widening the stereo image. It can do standard stereo widening as well...And you can also skew the image right or left, which can be valuable. That feature can be very helpful if you want to pan one voice left and one voice right. When you use standard pan, you lose mono compatibility (to some extent). By changing the symmetry within the S-1, you can make it sound like it's panning, while retaining very good mono compatibility.
> So I guess all it does is "widen" the sound?
>
It does a little more than that. I don't completely understand the science of shuffling, but it can make a file sound more separated without actually widening the stereo image. It can do standard stereo widening as well...And you can also skew the image right or left, which can be valuable. That feature can be very helpful if you want to pan one voice left and one voice right. When you use standard pan, you lose mono compatibility (to some extent). By changing the symmetry within the S-1, you can make it sound like it's panning, while retaining very good mono compatibility.
1
12-31-72
Guest
> > Yeah, I mean the Shuffler.
> > So I guess all it does is "widen" the sound?
> >
>
> It does a little more than that. I don't completely
> understand the science of shuffling, but it can make a file
> sound more separated without actually widening the stereo
> image. It can do standard stereo widening as well...And you
> can also skew the image right or left, which can be
> valuable. That feature can be very helpful if you want to
> pan one voice left and one voice right. When you use
> standard pan, you lose mono compatibility (to some extent).
> By changing the symmetry within the S-1, you can make it
> sound like it's panning, while retaining very good mono
> compatibility.
>
Now that makes sense! I was wondering, Why can't I just pan the audio? It does the same thing as the S-1!
On that note, how do you make sure your audio is "Mono" compatable? just watch it through a phase analyser? What do I need to look for?
Thanks for your help
> > So I guess all it does is "widen" the sound?
> >
>
> It does a little more than that. I don't completely
> understand the science of shuffling, but it can make a file
> sound more separated without actually widening the stereo
> image. It can do standard stereo widening as well...And you
> can also skew the image right or left, which can be
> valuable. That feature can be very helpful if you want to
> pan one voice left and one voice right. When you use
> standard pan, you lose mono compatibility (to some extent).
> By changing the symmetry within the S-1, you can make it
> sound like it's panning, while retaining very good mono
> compatibility.
>
Now that makes sense! I was wondering, Why can't I just pan the audio? It does the same thing as the S-1!
On that note, how do you make sure your audio is "Mono" compatable? just watch it through a phase analyser? What do I need to look for?
Thanks for your help
> Now that makes sense! I was wondering, Why can't I just pan
> the audio? It does the same thing as the S-1!
>
> On that note, how do you make sure your audio is "Mono"
> compatable? just watch it through a phase analyser? What
> do I need to look for?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
A phase analyzer is a pretty tough tool to use unless you REALLY know what you're doing. On my board, I've got a mono button, a "left only" button and a "right only" button. Most of the time, it isn't important to check for mono compatability. But, if I suspect there could be a problem, I check.
If you use Audition or Soundforge, you can convert the file to mono and then just undo the operation after you've checked. I'm sure you can pan L/R on your board to check each channel individually.
Unless you're using a lot of stereo effects or mixing music, mono compatability shouldn't be an issue.
> the audio? It does the same thing as the S-1!
>
> On that note, how do you make sure your audio is "Mono"
> compatable? just watch it through a phase analyser? What
> do I need to look for?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
A phase analyzer is a pretty tough tool to use unless you REALLY know what you're doing. On my board, I've got a mono button, a "left only" button and a "right only" button. Most of the time, it isn't important to check for mono compatability. But, if I suspect there could be a problem, I check.
If you use Audition or Soundforge, you can convert the file to mono and then just undo the operation after you've checked. I'm sure you can pan L/R on your board to check each channel individually.
Unless you're using a lot of stereo effects or mixing music, mono compatability shouldn't be an issue.
> If you use Audition or Soundforge, you can convert the file
> to mono and then just undo the operation after you've
> checked. I'm sure you can pan L/R on your board to check
> each channel individually.
>
> Unless you're using a lot of stereo effects or mixing music,
> mono compatability shouldn't be an issue.
Checking left and right separately does nothing to determine if you are having a phase issue.
The problem arises with some cheap stereos, and clock radios, that run mono as a sum of left and right channels. That is when you will really hear that a production dept. is having phasing problems. A lot of car stereos also do this if station reception is poor or you're on the edge of a signal map. In audition, Cool Edit or Soundforge convert the file to mono sum by using 50% Left and 50% Right and that will be Mono sum and will definately show you how the signal is perceived by a clock radio etc. Another way to do this mechanically is to take 2 stereo channels on your Mackie / Behringer / Whatever
Plug the Left channel of your Computer DAW into the left channel on stereo channel 1 and turn the pan knob hard left. Now plug the right channel of your computer DAW into the right channel of stereo channel 2 and pan hard right. Now your DAW's Left and right signal is coming across in stereo across 2 channels. Now play a piece of imaging or spot and turn each of the pan knobs to the center position... If you are having a problem with phasing on a VO you'll notice that it will disappear or greatly reduce in gain.
The S1 will supposedly widen the stereo image without creating phasing problems. I use it quite a bit and it's kind of a crap shoot. Some times it does, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it only mildly affects phase, enough that you can still hear the program material properly. The S1 Matrix is a mono only solution for creating perceived stereo effects within a mono sample. Sort of fake stereo on a mono file. It's big in the UK. People who put out dance records often use it because most big clubs run a mono sum PA (Mix of Left and RIght) and wild stereo effects are just lost in the mix. Take a mono mix of a spot and run it through the Matrix and listen. I'm kind of like you guys, although I know what it's supposed to do, I haven't found a use for it yet either.
Hope this helps...
Carson
> to mono and then just undo the operation after you've
> checked. I'm sure you can pan L/R on your board to check
> each channel individually.
>
> Unless you're using a lot of stereo effects or mixing music,
> mono compatability shouldn't be an issue.
Checking left and right separately does nothing to determine if you are having a phase issue.
The problem arises with some cheap stereos, and clock radios, that run mono as a sum of left and right channels. That is when you will really hear that a production dept. is having phasing problems. A lot of car stereos also do this if station reception is poor or you're on the edge of a signal map. In audition, Cool Edit or Soundforge convert the file to mono sum by using 50% Left and 50% Right and that will be Mono sum and will definately show you how the signal is perceived by a clock radio etc. Another way to do this mechanically is to take 2 stereo channels on your Mackie / Behringer / Whatever
Plug the Left channel of your Computer DAW into the left channel on stereo channel 1 and turn the pan knob hard left. Now plug the right channel of your computer DAW into the right channel of stereo channel 2 and pan hard right. Now your DAW's Left and right signal is coming across in stereo across 2 channels. Now play a piece of imaging or spot and turn each of the pan knobs to the center position... If you are having a problem with phasing on a VO you'll notice that it will disappear or greatly reduce in gain.
The S1 will supposedly widen the stereo image without creating phasing problems. I use it quite a bit and it's kind of a crap shoot. Some times it does, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it only mildly affects phase, enough that you can still hear the program material properly. The S1 Matrix is a mono only solution for creating perceived stereo effects within a mono sample. Sort of fake stereo on a mono file. It's big in the UK. People who put out dance records often use it because most big clubs run a mono sum PA (Mix of Left and RIght) and wild stereo effects are just lost in the mix. Take a mono mix of a spot and run it through the Matrix and listen. I'm kind of like you guys, although I know what it's supposed to do, I haven't found a use for it yet either.
Hope this helps...
Carson
"Checking left and right separately does nothing to determine if you are having a phase issue."
No...But, if you're using pan (i.e. one characters voice panned 35 left and another's panned 35 right), you'll have a problem. Most mono recievers capture one channel (usually left), rather than creating a 50/50 sum.
By using the asymmetry function in the S1, you can shift the phase energy of one character toward the left and the other toward the right, without creating major level discrepancies in either channel. You can simulate the sound of hard left or right panning, while only causing about 3dB of level change. Therefore, listening in stereo, it sounds like the characters are panned to their own side. Listening in a mono sum will sound fine, as will single channel L or R...You won't have one character dropping by 15dB and getting lost in the mix.
You can also accomplish a similar effect by using delay. You can make one channel take priority over another, even though the levels are equal. This is fine for CD, but combined with the stereo widening used in on-air processing, it starts to sound really bad.
No...But, if you're using pan (i.e. one characters voice panned 35 left and another's panned 35 right), you'll have a problem. Most mono recievers capture one channel (usually left), rather than creating a 50/50 sum.
By using the asymmetry function in the S1, you can shift the phase energy of one character toward the left and the other toward the right, without creating major level discrepancies in either channel. You can simulate the sound of hard left or right panning, while only causing about 3dB of level change. Therefore, listening in stereo, it sounds like the characters are panned to their own side. Listening in a mono sum will sound fine, as will single channel L or R...You won't have one character dropping by 15dB and getting lost in the mix.
You can also accomplish a similar effect by using delay. You can make one channel take priority over another, even though the levels are equal. This is fine for CD, but combined with the stereo widening used in on-air processing, it starts to sound really bad.
> You can also accomplish a similar effect by using delay.
> You can make one channel take priority over another, even
> though the levels are equal. This is fine for CD, but
> combined with the stereo widening used in on-air processing,
> it starts to sound really bad.
Yeah you've really got to be careful with short delays, or just like Emmett says a whole lotta material within a piece can disappear.
> You can make one channel take priority over another, even
> though the levels are equal. This is fine for CD, but
> combined with the stereo widening used in on-air processing,
> it starts to sound really bad.
Yeah you've really got to be careful with short delays, or just like Emmett says a whole lotta material within a piece can disappear.
1
12-31-72
Guest
> > You can also accomplish a similar effect by using delay.
> > You can make one channel take priority over another, even
> > though the levels are equal. This is fine for CD, but
> > combined with the stereo widening used in on-air
> processing,
> > it starts to sound really bad.
>
> Yeah you've really got to be careful with short delays, or
> just like Emmett says a whole lotta material within a piece
> can disappear.
>
I appreciate all you guys had to say. Funny that it's a little more complicated than just turning your pans left or right...
On that note, any ideas what MS is all about? As I understand it, it's a form of broadcasting a stereo signal to Middle and Side instead of L and R?
Am I correct in assuming the middle is a pure mono signal with the Side is a mix sum of L and R?
Let me know if I'm making any sense....
Thanks!
> > You can make one channel take priority over another, even
> > though the levels are equal. This is fine for CD, but
> > combined with the stereo widening used in on-air
> processing,
> > it starts to sound really bad.
>
> Yeah you've really got to be careful with short delays, or
> just like Emmett says a whole lotta material within a piece
> can disappear.
>
I appreciate all you guys had to say. Funny that it's a little more complicated than just turning your pans left or right...
On that note, any ideas what MS is all about? As I understand it, it's a form of broadcasting a stereo signal to Middle and Side instead of L and R?
Am I correct in assuming the middle is a pure mono signal with the Side is a mix sum of L and R?
Let me know if I'm making any sense....
Thanks!
It's not so much for broadcast, as it is for group or area recording. You use two mics...One placed for center, one for side. Sometimes in a "T" shape.
When decoding, you pan the mid stright up the center...With the side, you convert to dual mono and invert one channel. Then layer the two. BAM! Instant stereo with perfect mono compatibility...I think there are other ways MS can be used (including broadcast).
> On that note, any ideas what MS is all about? As I
> understand it, it's a form of broadcasting a stereo signal
> to Middle and Side instead of L and R?
> Am I correct in assuming the middle is a pure mono signal
> with the Side is a mix sum of L and R?
>
> Let me know if I'm making any sense....
>
> Thanks!
>
When decoding, you pan the mid stright up the center...With the side, you convert to dual mono and invert one channel. Then layer the two. BAM! Instant stereo with perfect mono compatibility...I think there are other ways MS can be used (including broadcast).
> On that note, any ideas what MS is all about? As I
> understand it, it's a form of broadcasting a stereo signal
> to Middle and Side instead of L and R?
> Am I correct in assuming the middle is a pure mono signal
> with the Side is a mix sum of L and R?
>
> Let me know if I'm making any sense....
>
> Thanks!
>
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