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WAVO asks for donations to maintain radio format

. I merely asked how we can tell that WAVO is, as you said the lowest rated station in town?

I merely asked what's wrong with customers paying for what they enjoy? Times change. People don't buy music anymore either. Newspapers are struggling too. The old model doesn't work any more. All forms of media are having a tough time because the pool of places to advertise has exploded, driving prices down.

It doesn't matter if they're the lowest rated station. The fact is they're not among the highest. That is something we know. We know their costs have risen. We know that AM radio is in big trouble. We know that formats that target audiences over the age of 55 have trouble attracting advertising. These are all documented facts. For some reason, you don't want to believe the GM. That's fine. Don't believe him. But don't be surprised if the service you enjoy goes away some day.
 
I merely asked how we can tell that WAVO is, as you said the lowest rated station in town? It's an honest question because no, I don't have all the answers.

43 of the 69 listed stations in the Charlotte MSA (not including LPFM and translators) did not show in an average of the April, May and June books.

Some may not show because, even though it is free, they have not put in a PPM encoder.

Others, like WAVO, occasionally show so they are encoded but just not very well liked; WAVO showed enough in the April to May period last year to get a 0.1 share.

But, overall, WAVO is like 2/3 of the stations in the market in not having enough listeners to make the book. This likely explains its difficulty in raising funds, too.
 
Good list David but this station is part of a small cluster and there are some shared expenses. Tower painting and lighting is not a factor if the tower is less than 200 feet and not near an airport. With today's overnight delivery many small stations carry few if any spare parts mostly relying on a backup transmitter. Contract engineers often take care of the transmitter janitorial services and an office person usually does it for the sales office and studio if there is one. There are other places where costs can be and have been cut.

However, unless leased there is transmitter site maintenance. If the tower does not need painting and lighting, the building does. And add in intrusion alarms, maintenance of tower and property fencing, provision for copper theft, grounds upkeep / mowing / cutting and there are still site expenses.

And parts, whether stocked or ordered overnight, cost money.

Janitorial, whether outsourced, has costs such as cleaning supplies, touch-up painting, trash bags and haulage of trash and such. And then there are occasional items like the rooter service when the plumbing gets stopped up or relocking when someone who is let go makes threats... in other words, lots of little things that vary from station to station but which are definite and significant expenses in their totality.

What I wanted to do was show that jock salaries are not the biggest expense item for most stations. Few realize that sales commissions are usually at the top of the list of single items.

(Of course, the manager's trades may be the real biggest item at smaller stations or single proprietorships) :eek:
 

Janitorial, whether outsourced, has costs such as cleaning supplies, touch-up painting, trash bags and haulage of trash and such.
I ought to remember the name of the company, but they do have a commercial which mentions that a local radio station is client.

Something tells me they neither pay for the commercial nor get paid for their work.
 
I ought to remember the name of the company, but they do have a commercial which mentions that a local radio station is client.

Something tells me they neither pay for the commercial nor get paid for their work.

Trade is a common practice in radio stations. This is where a station gets goods or services and pays with ads.

Larger companies tend to restrict or even prohibit trade because it tends to lowball prices. For example, the classic "car trade for the manager" often ends up with a $40,000 car being paid with $120,000 worth of ads.
 
You have all made some good points, some I had not considered and some I know about. I heard about GM's trades many years ago. Back when there were station news cars, most were purchased by trades with a local car dealer. One GM used to trade out personal gifts, etc.

I don't know about people not buying music. Music buying is down but not gone. I know that current music is often shared and streamed but I'm still buying. I can't be the only one.

I wish WAVO well, I would just like more for my money. It doesn't seem like a very good business model.
 
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It doesn't seem like a very good business model.

Of course...it's based on users like you paying for the service you want. Unless they can threaten you with cancelation for non-payment, you'll continue to use their service without paying. Until they run out of money and they go out of business, and you're left wondering what happened. But that's why AM radio is in trouble, and why older people are having trouble finding radio programming they like.
 
Can a profit-making radio station ask for donations? I'm sure that in some cases, a station with a small but enthusiastic following, playing music no one else airs, could get enough donations to make it worthwhile. But obviously your donors will not get tax benefits.
 
I heard about GM's trades many years ago. Back when there were station news cars, most were purchased by trades with a local car dealer. One GM used to trade out personal gifts, etc..

A station can trade for anything it wants, of course.

A favorite in smaller markets and, particularly with owner-operator stations, is restaurant trade. Because the restaurant category is not particularly lucrative (excluding chains and fast foods) owners love to trade with nicer places locally so they can take clients or family for a meal. Most of us don't consider that as lost cash revenue as independent restaurants often fall into the late pay / slow pay / no pay category.

Trades for roofing, building maintenance and bottled water are quite common, but things like home and office furnishings and hardware are also quite usual. I even once had a trade with an electronics supply house that sold me parts and components because they also sold consumer audio; we kept the deal in effect for nearly a decade.
 
At this time last year there was an encouraging update. I didn't hear anything last year except the standard message. But the interference was pretty bad at the time and it might have had more.
 
At this time last year there was an encouraging update. I didn't hear anything last year except the standard message. But the interference was pretty bad at the time and it might have had more.

I would think that the second time you ask for donations (and by the way the site clearly says donation not membership) you're not going to get as much as the first time without a lot more effort. As for interference, the AM band as a whole continues to suffer a little more each day.

I'll get bombed for this but it wouldn't hurt to have a well known personality or two who are really into the format on the air to promote the music and the station (not a lot of talk, just someone to make it interesting). Make the appeal for support a personal one. Even if they are voice tracked. Throw them a restaurant trade or something in exchange for their services. Then it will sound more like a radio station rather than a computer in a closet. I know, too radical.
 
Then it will sound more like a radio station rather than a computer in a closet. I know, too radical.

You still don't believe that they're in trouble financially, do you? Perhaps all they can afford is a computer in a closet.

You want a hand-written personal invitation, but they really can't afford it. If they could, they wouldn't be begging.
 
I have been in the trenches trying to sell stations like this. Let me educate you a bit: every ad agency, even where the buyer is a close friend, have zero dollars. That means every business with any significant ad budget is run through an agency. Agencies say no. That's true when you are seemingly a perfect match. The small mom and pop businesses will buy. The trouble is they can only spend about $200 a month, maybe $300 and they do not renew. If you are lucky, maybe 1 in 10 or 20 will stay on. It still takes the 5 to 8 visits to sell them, easily getting down to minimum wage or less and your car mileage is a tax write off.

Why? Mom and Pop businesses tend to be single location businesses meaning all their customers come from their trade area which is usually a few miles from their door. When you have so few listeners that you cannot make an impact in their primary trade area, they don't buy again. Remember the advertised product might not be needed that day, week or month. You don't call that plumber advertising on the station today because you heard their spot but rather when you need a plumber. So, the reach might be a hundred or so, maybe a few hundred, but how many need the advertised product at that very moment?

I can see you thinking what about the products that cater to older demographics? They go to TV and maybe print because they have a guaranteed reach. With poor, if any ratings, you are not an efficient buy. So, sell more Moms and Pops, right? You can, if you can survive on so little money, not to mention the copy writing, production and logging of spots. We used a telemarketer to find them. I put a 1,000 miles a week on my car. All said and done, I spent more than my commission getting the sale. Luckily I had a base salary that covered my living expenses and then some.

Running a radio station has tons of hidden costs. Most populated areas sell land by the square foot. We have about 10 acres, over a million bucks in land alone. Property taxes are about 3% a year. The FCC makes us have a second employee. Electric runs up to $5,000 a month. Add the lease for the office. Add matching social security and workman's comp even though we never had a claim. Add taxes out the wazoo on things like a sign saying what you are outside your door. Then music licensing fees (SESAC's low end for our market is $300 a month and we don't play any SESAC songs but it is easier to pay than be challenged and have to defend ourselves...and they're the cheapest of the three). Did I mention the annual spectrum fee you pay the FCC? How about the contract engineer that wants $2,000 a month to come out if you go off? Sure you share him with several stations, but you need a way to stay legal and get back on the air by tomorrow if something happens. And when lightning hits your station, you had better have the reserve on hand. Don't count on insurance.

And if you think the owner of such a station is rich, you're right. You have to be rich to be able to handle the investment. You can bet they have other businesses, at least one, that gives them an income while they lose or barely scrape by with the station. Why do they do it? In theory, a radio station, even on AM and even a daytime only, has value that far exceeds its potential because there are only a limited number of stations on the dial. Before the crash in 2008, we had offers up to 7 million for a station billing $35,000 a month and just scraping by. It was at the same time another local owner billing about $40,000 a month sold his AM with flea powered nighttime for $8 million. Sadly the same station might sell at 2 million today if you are really lucky.

So, you might gripe about them asking listeners for money but let me ask you what you would do? Sell more spots or ask for some cash from listeners? It costs very few dollars to compose and produce that spot and the full time in the office employee can collect the checks and visit the bank. Do you hire new salespeople, pay them a salary and hope you can beat reality? Oh, you say, just give them commission? Let me ask you how many jobs you have accepted that give you no salary. Ever had any friends sell those multi-level products and quit because the money for the time spent was just not worth it? Selling radio is just like that. Your miles on your car and the other associated expenses come out of your commission Most commission only salespeople don't last a week. So, if there's a new person each week, how do you build relationships with business owners? Let's turn that around: If you had a new financial planner for your retirement every week, would you stick with that firm? And by the way, when they don't get paid except when they sell and collect the check, they are not going to feel guilty stealing something from the station to pawn in order to eat. When you're so close to living under a bridge, you'd be amazed at what you'll do to stay afloat. That brings up another interesting point: the person that applies for the commission only sales job is typically a person that cannot get hired elsewhere because of a criminal record, very fringe lifestyle or substance abuse issue. A good salesperson is already successful elsewhere and making plenty of money so they'd laugh at your offer of commission only.

Finally some real numbers: When I arrived at the station we were billing $6,000 and expenses were $15,000 a month. Selling more spots got us to $15,000 monthly a year later and a monthly expense of $22,500. I changed the format after a year. We were scraping the bottom and I even explored trying to join with a local want ad paper to run a Tradio format full-time where you got an ad in print and on our station for a fee each week. We looked in to a 976 number where listeners could record on an answering machine what they had for sale. I even explored the shopping format done in Maine and Jacksonville at the time where you sold product on the air at a discount and that business got ads for product to sell in lieu of cash. I figured there were enough people that were the garage sale/2nd hand/bargain seeking shoppers and we'd benefit from a known print publication promoting us to save on promoting the station. So, you might say we were willing to try anything to get the billing we needed. And yes, my boss had money. He had to to cover the losses.

Well said!
 
They seem to be able to do it. My last post on this worn out subject.

They're "doing it" pretty much the same way. Only one live host, the rest of the day computerized. No stream. On the cheap. All the things you're complaining about with WAVO.

No one's forcing you to donate. No one's forcing you to listen. You want what you want, and you want it for free. There will be fewer and fewer stations that will be willing to support what you want.
 
Still trying. And now they have a golden opportunity, with Salisbury's Memories 1280 now oldies. That makes this the only station doing this kind of music. Although the other station's morning show may still be playing the good music, while WAVO still has talk until 9.

I wonder if they would consider having WTIX siumulcast once again under the circumstances. Would there really be a disadvantage since they're just simulcasting WHVN now?
 
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