WBAI Local Programming Ceases

[davideduardo]

Meanwhile, this very lengthy article was posted today, claiming the real goal of Pacifica (without any evidence) is to sell the station to help KPFA in Berkeley. That makes absolutely no sense, but here it is:

https://mailchi.mp/stevebrownonboar...inst-illegal-shutdown-of-station?e=3d993f42ec

The fact is that if Pacifica wanted to sell WBAI, they could just sell it. No need to explain why.

The singularly ill-informed and un-aware nature of the rebel WBAI staff can be seen in the belief that WBAI might be worth as much as $100,000,000 today.

The truth is that, lacking any motivated buyers and the fact that the only two big operators in NYC are both capped out, the value of the station hovers around the low $30 million range. From that figure, the ESB debt and the debt to Pacifica corporate have to be deducted or factored in.

There is no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. The staff, which we already know to be dysfunctional and singularly unaware of how radio is used today, is abysmally delusional about the other realities of radio today. Since their programming barely attracts one tenth of a percent of all radio listening in the market, it should be obvious that the programming they are defending and demanding to have returned is of interest to, essentially, nobody.

 

[Tibbs4]

I don't have false teeth, yet, David. But, if I did, they would have flown across the room after reading your comments. Great work, humourous because well, you called em for what they completely are.

So, I attempted to read "their" official local stand from above and the Rec site. They claim national came in and stopped them right as they were starting fund raising. That would have raised an amazing $400,000, muh huh. Let me get this, uh, right. These local clowns have to basically come up with the money to pay themselves and have not been able to do that, SO national has been sending them money to cover the checks the locals could not cover? Translation: They have been screwing up and knew their daddy would bail em out and suddenly the financial pipeline has been shutoff? Who has been screwing who?

Seriously, so if I understand this, the By-Laws DO indeed state the GM and staff have to be paid by...the GM and staff on a local only basis? So, who does the GM Einstein get to pay his own paycheck, if the folks that were covering his dumb@$$ ain't covering his unpaid dumb@$$? And if he bounces his own paycheck, he is in violation of his own job and thusly, has to fire hisself and then is in trouble with the labor union?

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

I don't have false teeth, yet, David. But, if I did, they would have flown across the room after reading your comments. Great work, humourous because well, you called em for what they completely are.

So, I attempted to read "their" official local stand from above and the Rec site. They claim national came in and stopped them right as they were starting fund raising. That would have raised an amazing $400,000, muh huh. Let me get this, uh, right. These local clowns have to basically come up with the money to pay themselves and have not been able to do that, SO national has been sending them money to cover the checks the locals could not cover? Translation: They have been screwing up and knew their daddy would bail em out and suddenly the financial pipeline has been shutoff? Who has been screwing who?

Seriously, so if I understand this, the By-Laws DO indeed state the GM and staff have to be paid by...the GM and staff on a local only basis? So, who does the GM Einstein get to pay his own paycheck, if the folks that were covering his dumb@$$ ain't covering his unpaid dumb@$$? And if he bounces his own paycheck, he is in violation of his own job and thusly, has to fire hisself and then is in trouble with the labor union?

The Oldest running drama. But isn't Democracy Now the only show at Pacifica O&O's that gets an audience. I remember in past disputes Pacifica owned affiliates owed Amy Goodman and the Democracy now staff royalties over the radio and podcast distribution of that show though.

 

[Tibbs4]

Someone just forwarded me a blog called pacificaradiowatch.home.blog (.bs??)

Of course, there is no mention of who writes all the various blogs, but the new iED John Vernile (aka Satan) is castrated accordingly. It is interesting to see the videos and read all the accounts of how this capitalist has ruined their lives at WBAI. Perhaps it is worth enjoying the light reading as you doze off to sleep tonight.

"Devil" Vernile was interviewed by All Access in 2014.

A bonus question asked:

AA: "Last non-industry job?"
JV: "Working as a house parent with juvenile delinquents for the NY State Division for Youth. Perfect training for working in the record business."

Little did he know what 4Q 2019 would bring and it was about to top the charts in fun and entertainment.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

The singularly ill-informed and un-aware nature of the rebel WBAI staff can be seen in the belief that WBAI might be worth as much as $100,000,000 today.

The truth is that, lacking any motivated buyers and the fact that the only two big operators in NYC are both capped out, the value of the station hovers around the low $30 million range. From that figure, the ESB debt and the debt to Pacifica corporate have to be deducted or factored in.

There is no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. The staff, which we already know to be dysfunctional and singularly unaware of how radio is used today, is abysmally delusional about the other realities of radio today. Since their programming barely attracts one tenth of a percent of all radio listening in the market, it should be obvious that the programming they are defending and demanding to have returned is of interest to, essentially, nobody.

WFME, now WNSH, was sold back in 2012 for $40 million and a FM in Westchester. WBAI might be a better signal, and probably could move back to ESB, but $50 to 100 million? There's no way a rational person or company would pay that today.

 

[TheBigA]

Of course, there is no mention of who writes all the various blogs, but the new iED John Vernile (aka Satan) is castrated accordingly. It is interesting to see the videos and read all the accounts of how this capitalist has ruined their lives at WBAI. Perhaps it is worth enjoying the light reading as you doze off to sleep tonight.

I found that allaccess profile. Anybody who knows anything about WYSO knows this guy is anything but a capitalist. Antioch College is one of the hotbeds of leftist thought in this country. His non-com background is strong. I can see why Pacifica wanted him to run the place. He knows the organization has amazing assets in NY, LA, SF, DC, and Houston. If they could just get their act together a little bit, they might be able to have an impact. He knows, as we all do, that the only way to get your message across is to be independent financially. That's what Democracy Today has been able to do. So many brilliant non-com broadcasters have come from Pacifica, but they've all moved on to have their own success. The people left behind are those who weren't talented enough to make it on their own. So it's time to clean house and start over. That's what this guy wants to do.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Someone just forwarded me a blog called pacificaradiowatch.home.blog (.bs??)

Of course, there is no mention of who writes all the various blogs, but the new iED John Vernile (aka Satan) is castrated accordingly. It is interesting to see the videos and read all the accounts of how this capitalist has ruined their lives at WBAI. Perhaps it is worth enjoying the light reading as you doze off to sleep tonight.

"Devil" Vernile was interviewed by All Access in 2014.

A bonus question asked:

AA: "Last non-industry job?"
JV: "Working as a house parent with juvenile delinquents for the NY State Division for Youth. Perfect training for working in the record business."

Little did he know what 4Q 2019 would bring and it was about to top the charts in fun and entertainment.

Wow its crazy how Pacifica insiders call John Vernile satan but thats given how Pacifica has been for decades.

 

[davideduardo]

WFME, now WNSH, was sold back in 2012 for $40 million and a FM in Westchester. WBAI might be a better signal, and probably could move back to ESB, but $50 to 100 million? There's no way a rational person or company would pay that today.

Back in around 2012 (a “title before) GRC bought an FM in LA for over $80 million. They just sold it for just over $30 million. And that price was possible due to a well financed and highly motivated buyer.

And LA is a considerably larger radio revenue market than NYC.

WNSH was sold to a similarly motivated buyer, Cumulus. But they could not build a viable cluster, and withdrew.

Unless the well to do buyer of WABC also wants an FM, there is no obvious buyer for WBAI. So the price is going to be “buyer’s market” situation.

Who would have thought that a Class B in NYC would be a sort of white elephant!

 

[Barry]

As Entercom is maxed out in the number of stations they can own in this market, could they still rebroadcast WINS or WCBS on 99.5 if Pacifica retained ownership of WBAI, but leased all the air time to them?

 

[davideduardo]

As Entercom is maxed out in the number of stations they can own in this market, could they still rebroadcast WINS or WCBS on 99.5 if Pacifica retained ownership of WBAI, but leased all the air time to them?

What you describe is an LMA, which counts against the market cap. So the answer is "no".

And to do that WBAI would have to be reclassified as a commercial station, which seems to have all kinds of legal issues for Pacifica, which is a non-profit and would remain as the licensee.

 

[Tibbs4]

Couple of questions here. First, anyone have any footage or info on the actual hearing and how many "supporters" showed up at the courthouse?

Second, so the only thing the terminated paid staff and management "won" was the right to continue to be paid? Is that really a win? If Pacifica appeals that, could it delay paychecks for a long time? These folks probably cannot go long without finding another job, etc.

Finally, let's seriously discuss what the true 2020 value of this station really is. So, let's say a smaller radio company did decide to buy the single station and go for it. How could a stand alone company pay rent, tower leases, salaries, electricity, insurance and even survive and sell enough to "win?" Seems to me that even a $20M price tag would be a hard road. What would this station, as a commercial station, remotely bill, profit and be worth given the hardships of the market today?

 

[TheBigA]

What would this station, as a commercial station, remotely bill, profit and be worth given the hardships of the market today?

Before you jump to that question, you need a willing buyer and a willing seller, and I believe there are neither right now.

I am convinced, based on what I'm reading that this new ED wants to fix the problem at WBAI, clean house, and try to rebuild it into the station it once was. I think that's what the foundation wants, and if they can do that, it's worth more to the mission they have than whatever money they'd make from selling it. If they simply need to sell an asset, they have one in Houston that is expendable if they can get NY out of the hole it's in.

 

[TheBigA]

Couple of questions here. First, anyone have any footage or info on the actual hearing and how many "supporters" showed up at the courthouse?

I've seen pictures from inside the court house, but no pictures from outside, leading me to believe there wasn't much of a demonstration. I linked an article earlier in this thread that contained information from what happened inside the hearing.

EDIT: I just found a photo of WBAI staffers who showed up for today's hearing:

https://twitter.com/coreykilgannon/status/1182337351852400641/photo/1

 

[Tibbs4]

Before you jump to that question, you need a willing buyer and a willing seller, and I believe there are neither right now.

I believe there is always a buyer. I don't think there is a seller. At least for now. For sure.

I agree that this is a smart move for Pacifica to make the station changes. It had to "really" finally happen. I think we will find that the board was very specific that the iED could only become the long term real ED if he was proactive and swift. He has only been around a few months. He also grew up with WBAI and lived in NY, so he get's what it once was and what it perhaps could be. My previous tongue in cheek comment on him being a lowly capitalist is actually partially true. He has seen the world enough to know you have to have money first to create anything else. My guess is he will encounter a few legal issues that will slow the transition down, but in the long run, it will work out for the year or two that he stays. Then the board will eat him alive and he will go on to the next chapter. It is amazing that this position carries such drama and weight. I hope he can right the radio Titanic, but whether it can sail again.... No matter what, they gotta get some paying passengers. That's gonna prove tough.

Still, regardless of whether WBAI ever gets sold, I would like to still hear what people think it's worth in today's radio environment. I think it speaks to the bigger picture of radio itself.

 

[TheBigA]

Still, regardless of whether WBAI ever gets sold, I would like to still hear what people think it's worth in today's radio environment. I think it speaks to the bigger picture of radio itself.

There's been a very long discussion of this on the NY Radio board, and you'll see this post from a familiar name:

Posted by David Eduardo on October 09, 2019 at 16:41:25:

The 99.5 frequency likely is worth north of $30 million, while it is doubtful that 105.9 is worth even a quarter of that in today's market.

 

[Tibbs4]

Oh yes, I saw what David said, BigA. I was just looking for more thoughts and info. I find this situation to be extremely interesting. So I just want to get your or others well-thought out estimates, values, etc.

Who would ever believed that you could literally have a full-throttled FM radion station in the #1 market not be worth the cost to get in! Just shows you how quickly the transition from single owners in the 80's has come. Lot's to ponder!

 

[TheBigA]

Who would ever believed that you could literally have a full-throttled FM radion station in the #1 market not be worth the cost to get in! Just shows you how quickly the transition from single owners in the 80's has come. Lot's to ponder!

Keep in mind we're not talking about a top quality signal here. And as we've seen with Cumulus, a small cluster in NYC won't be as valuable as a full sized cluster, and in New York, size matters. As others have pointed out, Pacifica allowed the quality of this signal to be degraded, and didn't do the kinds of things that would have made it more valuable.

 

[tomservo]

The staff, which we already know to be dysfunctional and singularly unaware of how radio is used today, is abysmally delusional about the other realities of radio today. Since their programming barely attracts one tenth of a percent of all radio listening in the market, it should be obvious that the programming they are defending and demanding to have returned is of interest to, essentially, nobody.

If it was a decade ago, I could forgive hardcore radio people for not being woke to alternative media methods like podcasting, livestreaming on YouTube and things like that. But to be ignorant of these alternatives in this day and age is really mind boggling.

For the audience numbers that WBAI seems to attract, they could actually be sustainable as a podcast, or maybe on a rimshot low powered noncomm (if such a thing existed). But on a full class B with the power bill and tower rent that I can't even image what it costs? That is the definition of madness thinking that their brand of programming should be sustainable on that kind of a signal.

On the other hand, if Pacifica were willing to sell, it'd be pretty fascinating to see someone swoop in and buy it and WABC and have assembled an AM/FM combo in market #1 right out of the blue./

 

[TheBigA]

On the other hand, if Pacifica were willing to sell, it'd be pretty fascinating to see someone swoop in and buy it and WABC and have assembled an AM/FM combo in market #1 right out of the blue./

Not sure what you're suggesting. The current owner of WABC is a far right conservative. Never in a million years would the Pacifica board in Berkeley approve such a sale. They'd rather donate the signal to Democracy Now. In fact that would be a great solution.

To your other point, many of the shows that air on WBAI are also offered as podcasts and YouTube, and the producers have made mention of that via social media. Regular listeners are not missing their favorite shows.

 

[FreddyE1977]

Keep in mind we're not talking about a top quality signal here. And as we've seen with Cumulus, a small cluster in NYC won't be as valuable as a full sized cluster, and in New York, size matters. As others have pointed out, Pacifica allowed the quality of this signal to be degraded, and didn't do the kinds of things that would have made it more valuable.

Well their basic life philosophy is not capitalism. So this was not their priority.