WBAP on 96.7 is a Smart Move

[davideduardo]

So the question is, will this move maybe add a share to WBAP's numbers? Is that enough to make it worth their while. I'm sure it is. Half that might make it worth their while.

If the growth is a share, and it is all in 25-54, that would move WBAP into the top 10 in the sales demos.

Ron Chapman is quoted in the Star Telegram today as saying Platinum did make money, but not enough money, for Citadel. That's probably true. This move isn't so much about making a bigger profit as it is about cutting costs.

I doubt the station was profitable this year or last.

I guess one question I have is whether or not some of the AM's see their younger demos increase on just the AM side after starting a simulcast on FM. Do some of those young listeners decide to try the AM signal occasionally?

Nearly all AMs that have begun FM simulcasts have had huge rank ganes in 25-54. The way the numbers are reported for simulcasts does not allow breaking the AM fro the FM, but the assumption is that people under 55 listen or listen more when the format is on FM. In the case of NewsTalk, "young" is 35-54, not 18-34.

 

[MikeShannon914]

Platinum made money but not enough. Citadel thinks having WBAP on FM will make MORE money than Platinum made.

Maybe, in a convoluted way...it won't make more money, but will cost MUCH less to run--so the profit margin will be dramatically better. Or is that what you meant?

Bottom line here is that simulcasts are cop-outs, and that's one reason the FCC once had rules in place that prohibited more than 50% duplication in programming across sister stations.

Or I have an idea that will make it REAL cheap for Citadel! Turn in the license for 96.7, and let someone else try their hand at managing and programming a radio station instead. While you're at it, give the COL back to Sherman-Denison so they can have their own FM again.

*UPDATE*...I just read the Startlegram piece on the change. Best part: "(Tyler) Cox said the simulcast is not a cost-cutting move." Your employer's in bankruptcy, Tyler, and is sitting on a whole bunch of devalued properties, and ad agencies don't even like radio these days, and the concept of terrestrial radio is slowly spiraling down the drain...etc, etc, etc. Now say that again with a straight face?

 

[longtimelistener]

Platinum made money but not enough. Citadel thinks having WBAP on FM will make MORE money than Platinum made.

Maybe, in a convoluted way...it won't make more money, but will cost MUCH less to run--so the profit margin will be dramatically better. Or is that what you meant?

Killing Platinum if it was making money can't be called cost-cutting. That's cutting costs AND profits.

 

[Tyler Cox]

Mike Shannon writes: "Now say that again with a straight face?"

Mike, more than happy to do just that. This had nothing to do with cost cutting, and all to do with helping a heritage AM radio station continue to grow it's audience and it's revenue. It's too bad that most of the speculation on this and other posts by many, including you, are so frequently off the mark in terms of reality.

Simple fact: AM news/talk stations with FM simulcasts see significant growth in audience share. And that, Mike, translates to REAL revenue growth, not cost cutting.

The on-air team at Platinum did an outstanding job. They are to be commended for presenting the music of Platinum in an entertaining and professional manner.

 

[Tyler Cox]

I might be able to say it with a straight face...but apparently not with correct grammar. Should have read "grow its audience and its revenue." My high school English teacher is probably groaning right now!!

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Simple fact: AM news/talk stations with FM simulcasts see significant growth in audience share.

Mark Davis announced that he was going on vacation at the end of his Friday show. Is there any chance he's changing those plans for the launch of the simulcast this Monday? Or is this going to be a ``soft launch''?

 

[Tyler Cox]

Mark is still on vacation this coming week...and it's killing him! As he likes to point out...all the big stuff happens when he's away! But we'll hear from him time to time during the week.

 

[MikeShannon914]

It's too bad that most of the speculation on this and other posts by many, including you, are so frequently off the mark in terms of reality.

Simple fact: AM news/talk stations with FM simulcasts see significant growth in audience share. And that, Mike, translates to REAL revenue growth, not cost cutting.

And indeed that's what it is, speculation. I'm not one to take any canned explanation and not ponder what the "big picture" might be, whether it's this, or politics, or anything else. You know that you and I don't see eye to eye on broadcast operations, but I defer to you based on your experience and a long history of successes. I'll miss Platinum, but for a station that I gave six years of devotion to, no matter my own political beliefs, I hope it works out for WBAP. Whatever the reasons, I do think it's a smart business move. And when that "real revenue growth" does come in, there's a competent traffic service who'd surely love to have your business back!

 

[oldiesfan6479]

But Tyler--

Now Larry Dixon can no longer say "9:14 with the Four Tops..."
OK, so he couldn't anyway since the show ended at 9. But still...

And no more Debi (babe!) Diaz. :'(

 

[billyg]

No, it is 2nd adjacent to KSCS and KEGL. 2nd and 3rd adjacent full Cs have to be separated by a minimum of 64 miles...thus why 93.7, 94.5, 96.7, 98.3, 99.1, 100.7, 101.7, 103.3, 105.7, 106.7 are all rimshots from 64-65 miles away in Wise County or Grayson County since they are all 2nd or 3rd adjacent to existing Cedar Hill facilities.
[/quote]

I wonder if 96.7 (like 100.3 and 100.7 did) could be moved to that big tower east of Gainesville? That would be an slight improvement.
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KWRD&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

2nd and 3rd adjacent full Cs have to be separated by a minimum of 64 miles...thus why 93.7, 94.5, 96.7, 98.3, 99.1, 100.7, 101.7, 103.3, 105.7, 106.7 are all rimshots from 64-65 miles away in Wise County or Grayson County since they are all 2nd or 3rd adjacent to existing Cedar Hill facilities.

As was done with television some time ago (ATSC and NTSC), adjacents are allowed if they transmit from within a few miles of each other. Thus we have channels 40, 41, 42 and 43 from Cedar Hill (and plenty of others like that).

Presuming there's not a co-channel conflict, what technical reasons are there for not doing something similar with FM? Are consumer television tuners more selective than FM tuners?

 

[OHTBGH]

Its ok Tyler,

I can barely type since the stroke but I luv ya anyway!

He is right though. Many are simulcasting or even moving to the HD 2 as well.

Thanks for the comments and best of luck!

-BGH

 

[MarkDavis]

This seems like as good a time as any for one of my roughly biennial appearances in here.

Friday inside the building was energizing and poignant. Energizing because we are all obviously stoked at occupying a spot on the FM dial, in order to put our product in the ears of the growing number of people who are scarcely aware that AM stations exist. Sure, we have enjoyed the rare privilege of market domination with just that 50-thousand watt AM stick, but when you look at the possible landscape of new listeners that an FM perch provides, it is a genius move.

It was a poignant day because as exciting as this development is, it involved by necessity the end of another radio station. From the Memories days to the Twister days to the Platinum days, various co-workers of ours have brought their talents into our halls and onto that frequency. They have all been consummate professionals, and in this last incarnation, the Platinum people have every reason to be very proud of the great work they did. While all of us in the WBAP family are thrilled at what lies ahead, it is not without a certain tempering measure of sensitivity that accompanies any loss of radio jobs, especially when it involves people who were our friends and colleagues.

So to the inside baseball: at noon Friday I came down to the 3rd floor to the Platinum studios where Tyler was backtiming to the last Platinum record, fittingly "Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye." The plan had been to kick in with the "Reagan Radio" weekend at that time, but a one-hour mini-stunt proved irresistible. The old "Twister" elements were dropped in amid an hour of country music. With the Platinum studios disabled, the action moved upstairs to the 4th floor to engineering, where as the seconds ticked down to 1 PM, various buttons were hit to fire off the "Reagan Radio" produced elements and initiate the stream of Reagan speeches, which will run commercial free until 5 AM Monday. From that moment forward, all of us on BAP will be on two frequencies, hoping to spread the gospel of quality news and talk programming to as many people as we can.

And, of course, I will be on vacation. The running narrative of big things happening while I am away (dating back to, oh, what was it? That's right: 9/11) adds a new chapter. I hope Laura Ingraham (heard in my slot) and Mark Steyn (filing in for Rush) realize the history they are making.

Meanwhile, I'll be back on Monday the 22nd with enough material to fill two radio stations. And, if my past pattern maintains, back in here to weigh in on something in mid-2012. Best wishes to all. MD

 

[txchipk]

No, it is 2nd adjacent to KSCS and KEGL. 2nd and 3rd adjacent full Cs have to be separated by a minimum of 64 miles...thus why 93.7, 94.5, 96.7, 98.3, 99.1, 100.7, 101.7, 103.3, 105.7, 106.7 are all rimshots from 64-65 miles away in Wise County or Grayson County since they are all 2nd or 3rd adjacent to existing Cedar Hill facilities.

I wonder if 96.7 (like 100.3 and 100.7 did) could be moved to that big tower east of Gainesville? That would be an slight improvement.
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KWRD&service=FM&status=L&hours=U
[/quote]

Other spacing problems prevent the moves of 93.7/96.7/98.3/99.1/101.7/106.7 to the 94.5/100.7/103.3 facilities. For example, KTCY 101.7 (class C) is first adjacent to KBUS 101.9 Paris (class C2). The 94.5/100.7/103.3 tower is 152 km from KBUS' tower. The FCC spacing rules (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/spacing/index.html) require first adjacents (C to C2) be 188 km apart.

 

[txchipk]

2nd and 3rd adjacent full Cs have to be separated by a minimum of 64 miles...thus why 93.7, 94.5, 96.7, 98.3, 99.1, 100.7, 101.7, 103.3, 105.7, 106.7 are all rimshots from 64-65 miles away in Wise County or Grayson County since they are all 2nd or 3rd adjacent to existing Cedar Hill facilities.

As was done with television some time ago (ATSC and NTSC), adjacents are allowed if they transmit from within a few miles of each other. Thus we have channels 40, 41, 42 and 43 from Cedar Hill (and plenty of others like that).

Presuming there's not a co-channel conflict, what technical reasons are there for not doing something similar with FM? Are consumer television tuners more selective than FM tuners?

Whatever the reason, they are what they are right now:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/spacing/index.html

 

[lomax]

96.7 is marginal south of 635...In my late model vehicle with a window antenna, there's considerable interference and splatter along Stemmons freeway, Uptown Dallas..along the I-30/I-20 corridor, SW Fort Worth and downtown within proximity to tall buildings. Perhaps the hopes are with conservative leaning listeners N. of 635 toward Oklahoma. It would greatly irrtate me..driving into downtown Fort Worth on I-35w...listening to a favorite song on 96.7 with another station trying to cut in. While younger listeners may skew toward the fm band, there's little tolerance or patience with these younger demos with a signal that is less than perfect anywhere they are.

 

[schmave]

Don't underestimate us under-30s. I NEVER listened to news/talk here in SLC until KSL went to 102.7. Now, I probably TSL 15-40 minutes in the car each day. There really is something about my demo and the "AM" band. We just refuse to listen to it. But make it an FM present, and WHAMMO! I'll punch in all the time.

A true story (and I realize an anecdote does not confirm a trend).

I was driving to a remote at Red Bird Mall (that'll give you an idea of how long ago it was) with a media buyer (in her late 20's I surmise). On the way out Highway 67 (Marvin D. Love, right Mike?), we saw a bunch of smoke to the west and we were both curious about it. I mentioned that I could switch over to all-news KRLD and they'd probably have a report about it.

``Eeeeewwwww...but that's an AM station'', she said. In spite of the fact that AM 1080 would have been the best source for breaking news at the time, her attitude was that anything on AM was just plain rotten.

And I think that stations such as KSL, WWL, WTOP, KCBS, KTAR and others are accepting that reality, unfortunate as it may be for those of us in the older demos that still like AM.

I didn't read all six pages, but that's damn scary if a media buyer, someone who you'd think should know the business, is that incredibly ignorant.

 

[arnoldevns]

So the question is, will this move maybe add a share to WBAP's numbers? Is that enough to make it worth their while. I'm sure it is. Half that might make it worth their while.

Ron Chapman is quoted in the Star Telegram today as saying Platinum did make money, but not enough money, for Citadel. That's probably true. This move isn't so much about making a bigger profit as it is about cutting costs.

I guess one question I have is whether or not some of the AM's see their younger demos increase on just the AM side after starting a simulcast on FM. Do some of those young listeners decide to try the AM signal occasionally?

You contradicted Chapman and yourself. Platinum made money but not enough. Citadel thinks having WBAP on FM will make MORE money than Platinum made.

Far from it. I'm questioning whether this move will actually do what they hope it will. It might, but I don't know the economics involed in all of this. It just seems to me that this is much more about cutting costs than increasing profits. There will also be a loss of revenue from the ads sold just on Platinum. Will it be overcome by an increase in revenue at WBAP? I am not sure. Obviously they hope it will be more profitable, but if not, the drop in cost will be okay with them.

 

[Jay Walker]

I don't have a horse in this race but IMO the simulcasting of a Class A AM to a northern FM rim shot makes perfect sense especially in the DFW area. Here's my reasoning...

The northern rim shot FM's are uniquely positioned to cover the upper income northern suburbs, Frisco, McKinney, Plano and soon to be others as the population growth continues to explode in the area between I-35 and U.S. 75. I refer to these areas as upper income suburbs as the usual home prices in these growing areas typically reflect an upper middle class income at a minimum. However because these areas are north of the LBJ corridor there are homes, offices and high rise buildings in Plano/Frisco etc. where it is difficult to receive a Class A AM signal with adequate quieting for an enjoyable listening experience. Which brings me to my next point.

Technically the addition of an FM signal to an existing AM also proves beneficial as the man made noise on the 550-1700 band has grown exponentially over the years caused by consumer items such as computers, CAT5 network cable, light dimmers, and CFL lighting to name a few. Another positive for AM/FM simulcasts is the building penetration of the FM signal in most cases is superior to stations located on the AM broadcast spectrum. When you take into account the previous thoughts and add the 25-54 demographic bump it makes sense to me.
But like I said at the beginning I don't have a horse in this race.

Jay Walker

 

[little1]

Far from it. I'm questioning whether this move will actually do what they hope it will. It might, but I don't know the economics involed in all of this. It just seems to me that this is much more about cutting costs than increasing profits. There will also be a loss of revenue from the ads sold just on Platinum. Will it be overcome by an increase in revenue at WBAP? I am not sure. Obviously they hope it will be more profitable, but if not, the drop in cost will be okay with them.

WBAP's "problem" is that while they do well in 6+ ratings, their 25-54 numbers don't measure up as well. If they can migrate to FM, draw some listeners who wouldn't otherwise listen to AM (i.e 25-34's or 35-44's) even if their overall 6+ numbers don't traned up, if their 25-54 numbers rise, they can translate that into more sales.

There's a method to figure out what a ratings point is worth...So for example, if you've got a 3 share, you should get 3% of the total market billing. With every 10th of a ratings point potentially being 100's of thousands of dollars, ANY gain in that 25-54 demo will help WBAP.