WBFO has its new news director

[PTBoardOp94]

Radio is an older medium and is great at reaching 50 plus. This is where the money is. Forget what you have been taught that in radio the money demo is 25-54. It's not!! Try to find one person who is 25 years old that listens to radio exclusively You wont.

I'm afraid you're right. If you're not right today, you will be in 5 years or so.

It only gets easier to ignore radio. It's been said that the average age of a car is 11 or 12 years. Well, Bluetooth features have been common in cars for 6 years now, or more in certain makes. So that turnover is going to be complete soon.
The "whole house speaker" is only just taking off, and none of them include a broadcast tuner.

 

[tbolt909]

Buddy uses "Nielson". Everybody else uses Nielsen (Formerly Arbitron) for ratings. But wait, Buddy doesn't believe ratings (if they're bad) and only buys certain books(which he doesn't read). He learned a lot from the
"Fact Free" WBEN spin factory.

Since this thread was about WBFO, let's return to 2018. That's the current year there. That doesn't seem to be the case for other Buffalo stations...

 

[davideduardo]

Buddy uses "Nielson". Everybody else uses Nielsen (Formerly Arbitron) for ratings. But wait, Buddy doesn't believe ratings (if they're bad) and only buys certain books(which he doesn't read). He learned a lot from the
"Fact Free" WBEN spin factory.

So the best you can do is play Spelling Police?

Buddy has explained why he buys just the two main books; if you buy all four you also buy the 8 trend reports, too. It gets expensive, particularly for a stand-alone. And the two books are likely enough... and more... for local selling and local agency presentations.

 

[SirRoxalot]

All Bluetooth speakers have a broadcast tuner if your station has enabled the "skill" and streams on-line. If your station hasn't, then it likely will go the way of the dinosaurs. The delivery system is less important that providing compelling content that's not available elsewhere. Stations who know and serve their local audiences, and who can strike a balance between that content and the commercial load, will be fine. The on-line only "free" delivery of interactive content is still not making money. Adding on-line delivery of curated, targeted content via smart phone app, smart speakers, or whatever technology is available DOES make money. Concentrate on the product, and make it available on as many platforms as possible. The model still works.

 

[TheBigA]

Adding on-line delivery of curated, targeted content via smart phone app, smart speakers, or whatever technology is available DOES make money. Concentrate on the product, and make it available on as many platforms as possible. The model still works.

You may want to show how, since most radio stations will tell you online delivery (because of high music royalty costs and low advertising rates) doesn't make money.

 

[Element9]

Stop the guessing folks. I subscribe to Neilson (sic). I have every number for every day part. WBEN is strongest 35-64. They are strong 35-45, 45-55, and 55-65. Get over it. WBEN is consistently strong in every book. The older demo is the only demo radio should pursue. Radio is an older medium and is great at reaching 50 plus. This is where the money is. Forget what you have been taught that in radio the money demo is 25-54. It's not!! Try to find one person who is 25 years old that listens to radio exclusively You wont.

and of those demographic sub-sets, WBEN's strongest performance is...

 

[SirRoxalot]

With Nielsen combining all delivery platforms for audience estimates, and with the growing use of smart speakers, the growth of digital revenue generated by digital delivery of programming is what a lot of broadcasters are counting on to replace OTA revenue that has been going to other digital platforms. Radio stations don't pay the same royalty rates at pure-play online services. They will have to push rates up without cannibalizing their OTA revenue at some point. The money will follow the listeners. Radio still has some built-in advantages because they have more sales people on the ground and a chance to differentiate their content for local and regional audiences.

 

[TheBigA]

The money will follow the listeners.

That may be long term strategy. The marketplace sets the rates. The reality is the online rate will likely never equal or surpass what they're making now on air.

You made it sound like streaming radio stations are making money now. I don't think that's true.

 

[davideduardo]

With Nielsen combining all delivery platforms for audience estimates,

While it will likely grow, the use of the cross-platfom measurements has barely impacted radio at the local level.

and with the growing use of smart speakers, the growth of digital revenue generated by digital delivery of programming is what a lot of broadcasters are counting on to replace OTA revenue that has been going to other digital platforms.

It's not as much that the revenue is "going" to other platforms as it is about lack of growth.

None of the streaming platforms is profitable; their costs are not scalable. My own opinion is that the only company that can really make money off streaming is Apple, as they tie their streaming into an ecosystem that includes hardware where the money is there to be made.

Radio stations don't pay the same royalty rates at pure-play online services.

But the digital royalties are significant; you really can't compare the fees for on demand with those paid by an ad-supported medium.

They will have to push rates up without cannibalizing their OTA revenue at some point. The money will follow the listeners. Radio still has some built-in advantages because they have more sales people on the ground and a chance to differentiate their content for local and regional audiences.

If you check, Pandora has large sales staffs in many markets. OTA radio has the advantage of being more convenient for many users during certain times of the day and, of course, the on demand services don't have sellers at all.

 

[davideduardo]

and of those demographic sub-sets, WBEN's strongest performance is...

... 45-64. And that is a viable demo for local sales.

Note that the list of the Top 10 billing stations just released by BIA includes 5 AM stations that are predominantly 45+ in audience composition.

 

[SirRoxalot]

When we're talking about digital, we are talking about the future, right? iHeart's entire approach has been about a digital future for local radio. The fight over the car dashboard is all about the prominence of different delivery systems for content. Local broadcasters will only survive if they embrace the digital future and do a better job of monetizing the delivery of unique content than other program sources. There is a continuing shift toward streaming on a variety of devices, from smart speakers and smart phones to smart car dashboards. Smart broadcasters need to be in that marketplace now, and react to the way audiences are shifting their listening habits. The value of local broadcasting is in the content, not in the towers and transmitters.

 

[CTListener]

At some point, though, the money advertisers are willing to pay for advertising in "new media" like streaming has to equal or at least approach what they're willing to pay for "old media" like radio, right? One of the many problems that newspapers are having in the digital age is the wide gap in what they can charge for print ads vs. ads on the websites. Even though website visitors now greatly outnumber buyers of the physical newspaper, the print ads still bring in more money. This wasn't how the shift to digital was supposed to work.

Radio may be in an even more of a can't-win situation, since print doesn't have anything like the recording industry cartel and its bought-and-paid-for lapdog, the Copyright Royalty Board, to deal with. Users of streaming media that program music face the ugly reality of the royalty squeeze getting tighter every year, wiping out any inroads they may have made with advertisers.

 

[TheBigA]

When we're talking about digital, we are talking about the future, right?

I'm not questioning that. I'm questioning that it's making money. I asked you to show how. So far you haven't.

Yes of course the smart broadcasters need to be in that marketplace. It's an investment in the future. But TTBOMK it's not making money. It is so difficult that we see some small market local broadcasters putting their online signal behind a paywall in order to meet the cost. Some are geo-fencing so the signal is only available in the local market. The problem is monetizing content, and there are only so many ways to do that without charging a subscription fee.

 

[Element9]

... 45-64. And that is a viable demo for local sales.

Note that the list of the Top 10 billing stations just released by BIA includes 5 AM stations that are predominantly 45+ in audience composition.

combined 45-54 + 55-64... in which demographic subset does WBEN perform better, 45-54, or 55-64? My conservative speculation is 55-64. And as it relates to Persons 12+ which we most often see and debate here, my conservative speculation is WBEN maintains a rather hefty 65+, which naturally contributes to its position Persons 12+

 

[SirRoxalot]

With Nielsen combining OTA and on-line listening into one number, that's what will count with advertisers. Ultimately, radio stations will have to have the same content and advertising on all their delivery systems. Perhaps geo-fencing will resolve the issues with union voices on national commercials, and reduce the costs of streamed music. Once the numbers are combined, however, there won't be a price differential based on delivery system.

 

[davideduardo]

With Nielsen combining OTA and on-line listening into one number, that's what will count with advertisers. Ultimately, radio stations will have to have the same content and advertising on all their delivery systems. Perhaps geo-fencing will resolve the issues with union voices on national commercials, and reduce the costs of streamed music. Once the numbers are combined, however, there won't be a price differential based on delivery system.

The issue is not AFTRA, it is music rights. There is no economy of scale, as the more listening you get, the more you pay.

Local market reports do not have combined data at present, and we are looking a far piece down the road for that to happen with one factor being the added expense.

As I opined previously, I believe that the winner in the long term in this area will be Apple. They can afford to be unprofitable on the content distribution, as they make it on the hardware.

There is no currently visible way for Pandora and Spotify to be broadly profitable. There has to be an evolution in the business model, and it will likely be more expensive for the consumer.

 

[TheBigA]

Ultimately, radio stations will have to have the same content and advertising on all their delivery systems.

I'm not aware of stations that sell on-air and online together. They are sold as separate packages, separate sales teams, based on different metrics. The CPM is different. So it's not as easy as you describe. The online portion is growing, which is why it gets more attention in trade reporting.

The other thing that we're seeing is that users don't want the same content on all platforms. Streaming the air signal is not viewed as a digital strategy. The online content that gains the most attention is material that is unique to that platform. That's why TuneIn, for example, is investing so much money in their own in-house programming. That's why companies are investing in unique podcasts that are not simply repackaged content from on-air.

 

[SirRoxalot]

It's a new word with smart speakers, and the car dash will likely follow. Nielsen is the one headed toward not differentiating between OTA and digital delivery, so there will be a desire to deliver the same content no matter what the platform, and sell it as one service. Podcasts and other content targeted at other demos or audiences will be rated separately, and sold separately. We're already seeing plenty of content that's not controlled by the FCC, or by RF allocations. The problem is monetizing it. My point is that the delivery system for content that is earning money currently is likely to shift beyond OTA.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Apple is almost certainly profitable on their Apple Music service. Beyond a 30 day trial, there is no free ad-supported version. $10/mo. will cover about 4000 songs worth of music royalties.
Amazon is also able to write off Amazon Prime Music as part of its Prime membership fee - and probably it's a major selling point for their Alexa speakers.

I'm not sure it matters if Pandora or Spotify exist in 3 years or 5 years. Services will exist from conglomerates in their absence.

 

[frankberry]

Let's stay on subject, please.
Thanks.