WBLM vs Frank

[radiopirate]

> > Dude, in case no one told you...your shiftlock key is on.
>
> > You don't need to shout.
>
> SORRY...BUT I'VE NEVER BOUGHT INTO THE ARGUMENT ABOUT
> SHOUTING. I USE CAPS MERELY TO DISTINGUISH MY COMMENTS FROM
> YOURS. [WHOEVER CAME UP WITH THAT "SHOUTING RULE" WAS
> PROBABLY A 'COMPUTER CONTROL FREAK?']
> >
> > You're right...most people neither know nor care about
> > Arbitron. The whole idea of getting your calls/handle out
>
> > there between every song is all about awareness. Just
> like
> > a good commercial gets the business' name out there, a
> good
> > station wants everyone to know who they're listening to.
> If
> > you'd actually been in this biz as long as you claim to
> > have, you'd know that many/most listeners have no clue who
>
> > they're listening to. I BEGAN IN 1969...TOOK A FEW BREAKS
> ON OCCASION...BUT MY OVERALL TALLY IN RADIO & TV IS MORE
> THAN 30 YEARS. I'VE WORKED ALL FORMATS (WITH THE EXCEPTION
> OF RAP AND HIP-HOP)!
>
>
> A LOT OF LISTENERS ONLY WANT THE TUNES...NOT THE CLUTTER
> FROM SOMEBODY SCREAMING ONE-LINERS IN THEIR FACES. AND IF
> YOU THINK I'M 'SCREAMING AT YOU' HERE...LISTEN TO SOME OF
> THE TERRIBLE 'SCREAMERS' WHO ARE ON THE AIR RIGHT NOW!
>
> Back in my jock days there were
> > countless times someone would call the hitline and request
>
> > some song that wasn't even in our format. When I'd say we
>
> > didn't play that one, they'd INSIST they'd heard us play
> it
> > a few hours ago, since we were "the only station they
> listen
> > to". Obviously, they'd been listening to a competitor and
>
> > thought it was us.
>
> I'M SURPRISED YOU DIDN'T GIVE 'EM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT?
> ALL YOU NEEDED TO DO WAS TELL THE THE CALLER "BECAUSE WXYZ
> PLAYS SO MUCH MUSIC, THE JOCKS AREN'T PERMITTED TO REPEAT
> SONGS UNLESS 6 HOURS OR MORE ELAPSE BETWEEN THE LAST TIME
> THE SONG WAS PLAYED!"
>
>
> > It makes no sense to change format for the book
> > (ie-hammering calls in the spring & fall, then doing lots
> of
> > cold segues during the winter & summer). Consistency is a
>
> > good thing.
>
> UNTIL IT MAKES SOME LISTENERS MAD ENOUGH TO TURN YOUR RADIO
> STATION OFF AND SWITCH TO CD'S OR SOME OTHER SOURCE? AND
> WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE YOUR ADVERTISERS WHO THINK THERE ARE
> PEOPLE OUT THERE LISTENING TO THEIR SPOTS???
>
> argytunes
>
Argy I mean no disrespect, but your concept of how radio works certainly doesn't fit todays model. It's nice to think back to a simpler time, but the world of corporate radio works differently. And since it's not going away anytime soon, you can either get on board and play the game or eat dust, ie: find another job outside the biz.

 

[spoogie]

> > > > > > > Let's do a little comparison.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WBLM: Full fledged morning show that's fun to
> > listen
> > >
> > > > to.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Frank: More Music Morning show? Roughly
> > translated
> > > > that
> > > > >
> > > > > > > means "we've run out of ideas" or "we've run out
>
> > of
> > > > > > money".
> > > > > > > Not to mention the media fanfare for Mark
> Persky,
> > > when
> > > >
> > > > > two
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > weeks after he was suddenly gone. Embarassing.
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Full fledged morning show? Cap'n and Celust?
> > You're
> > > > > > joking, right?
> > > > > > Try an actual morning show in Portland-
> > > > > > 1. WMGX
> > > > > > 2. WPOR
> > > > > > 3. WJBQ
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mark Persky wasn't the only embarrassing thing
> about
> >
> > > > that
> > > > > > whole deal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Spoogie, for the record, EXACTLY where is it I can
> > hear
> > > > YOU
> > > > > on the air each morning? Or have you EVER worked on
> > the
> > > > air,
> > > > > let alone done a Morning Show? How many years were
> you
> >
> > > in
> > > > > the business of preparing and executing a morning
> > SHOW?
> > > > > I only ask because you seem like you have an opinion
>
> > on
> > > > > everything on this board, so it stands to reason a
> man
> >
> > > of
> > > > > your caliber MUST BE highly sought after. I'll now
> > pause
> > >
> > > > to
> > > > > remove the tongue from my cheek, and patiently wait
> > your
> > >
> > > > > witty retort. No doubt it will take some time since
> > you
> > > > are
> > > > > undoubtedly writing material and preparing
> tomorrow's
> > > show
> > > >
> > > > > with your partners for your SHOW.
> > > > >
> > > > Got more time on the mic and in this market than you
> do,
> >
> > > > jackball.
> > > >
> > > > And what are your qualifications, Doctor Radio?
> > > >
> > > Well then please, by all means, share your resume oh
> > > illustrious one. We're all waiting to be dazzled by your
>
> > > brilliance. Yet you post nothing but drivle and the same
>
> > old
> > > tired cliche's.
> > >
> > > I'm still waiting to listen to YOUR show, or look at
> your
> > > resume, and ratings history.
> > >
> > > Truth be told your're nothing more than a two-bit hack
> > that
> > > never had a job outside this market. You've been fired
> by
> > > every company in town and now can't get a radio job. So
> > you
> > > work at some dead-end job that you used to turn your
> nose
> > up
> > > at when you were getting free drinks as a
> semi-celebrity.
> > > You're bitter about days gone by and these young punks
> > that
> > > have taken over your beloved radio and turned it into a
> > > business instead of some way to hack free concert
> tickets
> > > and pick up chicks that were never quite as hot as you
> > liked
> > > to believe they were. You're the kind of guy that has a
> > few
> > > too many, goes home and listens to his old airchecks,
> > > telling yourself that you're better than anyone onthe
> air
> > > today...and you could prove it if they'd just give you a
>
> > > chance.
> > >
> > > I pity you.
> > >
> >
> > Thanks for your pity--boy, you nailed me right on the
> head.
> > It'a almost as if you were looking in the mirror when you
> > wrote your lil' diatribe. (BTW, it's spelled "drivel.")
> > Now, please, enthrall me (and the rest of us waiting with
> > baited breath) with YOUR radio acumen, hot stuff. Or are
> > YOU the lonely board op listening to some nationally
> > syndicated show waiting for YOUR chance to show 'em how it
>
> > oughtta be done?
> >
>
> Obviously by your response I'm not too far off track! My
> comments hit pretty close to home Spoogie?
>
> Anyone that will sit and nitpick the slip of a finger and
> point out an insignificant misspell is someone that needs to
> boost their own ego.
>
> I could sit and think of clever things to say, but my mom
> taught me a valuable lesson a long time ago, and it's
> certainly helped me over the years: you can't win an
> argument with an idiot. And as far as I can tell you are the
> biggest idiot I've run across on this board.
>
> So until next time, open another can of beer, and keep
> telling yourself "I was somebody. I was good. I'd still be
> on the air if those damned kids in corporate radio hadn't
> run me off." Close your eyes and dream about "the good old
> days."
>
And be sure to tell mom I said hello! Or, I'll just tell her later myself. And, by the way, we STILL don't know what "corporate radio kid" qualifications you possess, sweetie!

Love,

Spoogie

 

[spoogie]

> > > Dude, in case no one told you...your shiftlock key is
> on.
> >
> > > You don't need to shout.
> >
> > SORRY...BUT I'VE NEVER BOUGHT INTO THE ARGUMENT ABOUT
> > SHOUTING. I USE CAPS MERELY TO DISTINGUISH MY COMMENTS
> FROM
> > YOURS. [WHOEVER CAME UP WITH THAT "SHOUTING RULE" WAS
> > PROBABLY A 'COMPUTER CONTROL FREAK?']
> > >
> > > You're right...most people neither know nor care about
> > > Arbitron. The whole idea of getting your calls/handle
> out
> >
> > > there between every song is all about awareness. Just
> > like
> > > a good commercial gets the business' name out there, a
> > good
> > > station wants everyone to know who they're listening to.
>
> > If
> > > you'd actually been in this biz as long as you claim to
> > > have, you'd know that many/most listeners have no clue
> who
> >
> > > they're listening to. I BEGAN IN 1969...TOOK A FEW
> BREAKS
> > ON OCCASION...BUT MY OVERALL TALLY IN RADIO & TV IS MORE
> > THAN 30 YEARS. I'VE WORKED ALL FORMATS (WITH THE EXCEPTION
>
> > OF RAP AND HIP-HOP)!
> >
> >
> > A LOT OF LISTENERS ONLY WANT THE TUNES...NOT THE CLUTTER
> > FROM SOMEBODY SCREAMING ONE-LINERS IN THEIR FACES. AND IF
>
> > YOU THINK I'M 'SCREAMING AT YOU' HERE...LISTEN TO SOME OF
> > THE TERRIBLE 'SCREAMERS' WHO ARE ON THE AIR RIGHT NOW!
> >
> > Back in my jock days there were
> > > countless times someone would call the hitline and
> request
> >
> > > some song that wasn't even in our format. When I'd say
> we
> >
> > > didn't play that one, they'd INSIST they'd heard us play
>
> > it
> > > a few hours ago, since we were "the only station they
> > listen
> > > to". Obviously, they'd been listening to a competitor
> and
> >
> > > thought it was us.
> >
> > I'M SURPRISED YOU DIDN'T GIVE 'EM THE BENEFIT OF THE
> DOUBT?
> > ALL YOU NEEDED TO DO WAS TELL THE THE CALLER "BECAUSE WXYZ
>
> > PLAYS SO MUCH MUSIC, THE JOCKS AREN'T PERMITTED TO REPEAT
> > SONGS UNLESS 6 HOURS OR MORE ELAPSE BETWEEN THE LAST TIME
> > THE SONG WAS PLAYED!"
> >
> >
> > > It makes no sense to change format for the book
> > > (ie-hammering calls in the spring & fall, then doing
> lots
> > of
> > > cold segues during the winter & summer). Consistency is
> a
> >
> > > good thing.
> >
> > UNTIL IT MAKES SOME LISTENERS MAD ENOUGH TO TURN YOUR
> RADIO
> > STATION OFF AND SWITCH TO CD'S OR SOME OTHER SOURCE? AND
>
> > WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE YOUR ADVERTISERS WHO THINK THERE ARE
>
> > PEOPLE OUT THERE LISTENING TO THEIR SPOTS???
> >
> > argytunes
> >
> Argy I mean no disrespect, but your concept of how radio
> works certainly doesn't fit todays model. It's nice to think
> back to a simpler time, but the world of corporate radio
> works differently. And since it's not going away anytime
> soon, you can either get on board and play the game or eat
> dust, ie: find another job outside the biz.

Hey Vic,

Thanks again for filling us with your sage words. Now, off to bed you go. Gotta go get ready for that big shift of voice-tracking 12-in-a-row, hmmmm? Play the game!
>

 

[ThreeFer]

> > Let's do a little comparison.
>
> >
> > WBLM: Full fledged morning show that's fun to listen to.
> > Frank: More Music Morning show? Roughly translated that
> > means "we've run out of ideas" or "we've run out of
> money".
> > Not to mention the media fanfare for Mark Persky, when two
>
> > weeks after he was suddenly gone. Embarassing.
>
> Full fledged morning show? Cap'n and Celust? You're
> joking, right?

Say what you will, but Captain and "Celust" have great chemistry, and, let's face it, having Celeste on the morning show a) grabs more female listeners and b) let's not kid ourselves, Celeste brings a certain sex appeal if you will for the male listenership.

What does Frank's AM show bring? Hmm. Slogans, the same old 150 songs, and a different co-host/format each month.

> Try an actual morning show in Portland-
> 1. WMGX
> 2. WPOR
> 3. WJBQ
>
> Mark Persky wasn't the only embarrassing thing about that
> whole deal.

Yes, that Kelly was quite the piece of work, wasn't she. Painful to listen to, and on more than one occasion I heard her say Maine women dress like their husbands and only dress in flannel. Real good way to endear yourself to an audience. Moot point I suppose what with her being fired.

I think the Chevy Chase Show on FOX may have had a longer run than "The Big Show."

If Frank has another slide in the ratings, perhaps they should switch back to being jockless. People seemed to like it better that way.

 

[argytunes]

>> Argy I mean no disrespect, but your concept of how radio
> works certainly doesn't fit todays model. It's nice to think
> back to a simpler time, but the world of corporate radio
> works differently. And since it's not going away anytime
> soon, you can either get on board and play the game or eat
> dust, ie: find another job outside the biz.

BUT KNOWING HOW SUCCESSFUL "TODAY'S MODEL" IS...AND THAT ANYBODY WITH MONEY CAN PURCHASE A RADIO STATION IN THE MORNING AND SELL IT BY LATE AFTERNOON...IS THE CORPORATE RADIO PHILOSOPHY THAT MUCH BETTER?

ANSWER ME ONE QUESTION...IF YOU DON'T MIND????

IF CORPORATE RADIO IS NOW 'THE STANDARD BY WHICH ALL RADIO STATIONS ARE BASED', WHY ARE THERE FEWER LISTENERS ALONG WITH A RELUCTANCE FOR ADVERTISERS TO BUY ON-AIR TIME? DOESN'T "GANG-BANGING" A 4 or 5 MINUTE STOP-SET DEFEAT THE PURPOSE OF COMMUNICATING ONE-TO-ONE WITH A LISTENER?

CONTRARY TO YOUR OPINION...SIMPLER ISN'T NECESSARILY BAD....IF IT PRODUCES MORE LISTENERS AND MORE ADVERTISERS.

IF ANY BUSINESS HAS THE MINDSET: "WE ONLY WANT A CERTAIN AGE DEMOGRAPHIC (25-49) AND WE'LL STRICTLY CATER TO ONLY THAT GROUP"----HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THEY'LL STAY IN BUSINESS? PARTICULARLY WHEN A 49-YEAR OLD CAN TURN 50 WITHIN THE COURSE OF A YEAR???

argytunes

 

[tommydcat]

> If Frank has another slide in the ratings, perhaps they
> should switch back to being jockless. People seemed to like
> it better that way.


let's not forget they were also COMMERCIAL free not just jock free ... i don't think frank's inoffensive jocks cause many people to tune out.

 

[Bangorfan]

> > Try an actual morning show in Portland-
> > 1. WMGX
> > 2. WPOR
> > 3. WJBQ

Wow! I'm surprised that WMGX's morning show was put in the mix with WPOR and WJBQ! Did they change staff?

And as far as Frank goes, it starts at the top. Not Nassau corporate...but local. Maybe it's the local GM or Ops manager that's at fault here for not creating the chemsitry needed for a successful radio station. I - for one - am completely unbiased towards Portland radio, but Frank gets NO time in my car when I drive through, but WBLM is high on the list. It's just good radio.

BF

 

[radiopirate]

> > > > > > > > Let's do a little comparison.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > WBLM: Full fledged morning show that's fun to
> > > listen
> > > >
> > > > > to.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Frank: More Music Morning show? Roughly
> > > translated
> > > > > that
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > means "we've run out of ideas" or "we've run
> out
> >
> > > of
> > > > > > > money".
> > > > > > > > Not to mention the media fanfare for Mark
> > Persky,
> > > > when
> > > > >
> > > > > > two
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > weeks after he was suddenly gone.
> Embarassing.
> >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Full fledged morning show? Cap'n and Celust?
> > > You're
> > > > > > > joking, right?
> > > > > > > Try an actual morning show in Portland-
> > > > > > > 1. WMGX
> > > > > > > 2. WPOR
> > > > > > > 3. WJBQ
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mark Persky wasn't the only embarrassing thing
> > about
> > >
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > whole deal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spoogie, for the record, EXACTLY where is it I can
>
> > > hear
> > > > > YOU
> > > > > > on the air each morning? Or have you EVER worked
> on
> > > the
> > > > > air,
> > > > > > let alone done a Morning Show? How many years were
>
> > you
> > >
> > > > in
> > > > > > the business of preparing and executing a morning
> > > SHOW?
> > > > > > I only ask because you seem like you have an
> opinion
> >
> > > on
> > > > > > everything on this board, so it stands to reason a
>
> > man
> > >
> > > > of
> > > > > > your caliber MUST BE highly sought after. I'll now
>
> > > pause
> > > >
> > > > > to
> > > > > > remove the tongue from my cheek, and patiently
> wait
> > > your
> > > >
> > > > > > witty retort. No doubt it will take some time
> since
> > > you
> > > > > are
> > > > > > undoubtedly writing material and preparing
> > tomorrow's
> > > > show
> > > > >
> > > > > > with your partners for your SHOW.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Got more time on the mic and in this market than you
>
> > do,
> > >
> > > > > jackball.
> > > > >
> > > > > And what are your qualifications, Doctor Radio?
> > > > >
> > > > Well then please, by all means, share your resume oh
> > > > illustrious one. We're all waiting to be dazzled by
> your
> >
> > > > brilliance. Yet you post nothing but drivle and the
> same
> >
> > > old
> > > > tired cliche's.
> > > >
> > > > I'm still waiting to listen to YOUR show, or look at
> > your
> > > > resume, and ratings history.
> > > >
> > > > Truth be told your're nothing more than a two-bit hack
>
> > > that
> > > > never had a job outside this market. You've been fired
>
> > by
> > > > every company in town and now can't get a radio job.
> So
> > > you
> > > > work at some dead-end job that you used to turn your
> > nose
> > > up
> > > > at when you were getting free drinks as a
> > semi-celebrity.
> > > > You're bitter about days gone by and these young punks
>
> > > that
> > > > have taken over your beloved radio and turned it into
> a
> > > > business instead of some way to hack free concert
> > tickets
> > > > and pick up chicks that were never quite as hot as you
>
> > > liked
> > > > to believe they were. You're the kind of guy that has
> a
> > > few
> > > > too many, goes home and listens to his old airchecks,
> > > > telling yourself that you're better than anyone onthe
> > air
> > > > today...and you could prove it if they'd just give you
> a
> >
> > > > chance.
> > > >
> > > > I pity you.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for your pity--boy, you nailed me right on the
> > head.
> > > It'a almost as if you were looking in the mirror when
> you
> > > wrote your lil' diatribe. (BTW, it's spelled "drivel.")
>
> > > Now, please, enthrall me (and the rest of us waiting
> with
> > > baited breath) with YOUR radio acumen, hot stuff. Or
> are
> > > YOU the lonely board op listening to some nationally
> > > syndicated show waiting for YOUR chance to show 'em how
> it
> >
> > > oughtta be done?
> > >
> >
> > Obviously by your response I'm not too far off track! My
> > comments hit pretty close to home Spoogie?
> >
> > Anyone that will sit and nitpick the slip of a finger and
> > point out an insignificant misspell is someone that needs
> to
> > boost their own ego.
> >
> > I could sit and think of clever things to say, but my mom
> > taught me a valuable lesson a long time ago, and it's
> > certainly helped me over the years: you can't win an
> > argument with an idiot. And as far as I can tell you are
> the
> > biggest idiot I've run across on this board.
> >
> > So until next time, open another can of beer, and keep
> > telling yourself "I was somebody. I was good. I'd still be
>
> > on the air if those damned kids in corporate radio hadn't
> > run me off." Close your eyes and dream about "the good old
>
> > days."
> >
> And be sure to tell mom I said hello! Or, I'll just tell
> her later myself. And, by the way, we STILL don't know what
> "corporate radio kid" qualifications you possess, sweetie!
>
> Love,
>
> Spoogie
>
Once again youprove my point for me. Resorting to may inuendo about someones mom? Clever! Very mature too. You're more pitiful than I originally thought. I can now see why you couldn't get a job on the mic at Burger King.

 

[radiopirate]

> >> Argy I mean no disrespect, but your concept of how radio
> > works certainly doesn't fit todays model. It's nice to
> think
> > back to a simpler time, but the world of corporate radio
> > works differently. And since it's not going away anytime
> > soon, you can either get on board and play the game or eat
>
> > dust, ie: find another job outside the biz.
>
> BUT KNOWING HOW SUCCESSFUL "TODAY'S MODEL" IS...AND THAT
> ANYBODY WITH MONEY CAN PURCHASE A RADIO STATION IN THE
> MORNING AND SELL IT BY LATE AFTERNOON...IS THE CORPORATE
> RADIO PHILOSOPHY THAT MUCH BETTER?
>
> ANSWER ME ONE QUESTION...IF YOU DON'T MIND????
>
> IF CORPORATE RADIO IS NOW 'THE STANDARD BY WHICH ALL RADIO
> STATIONS ARE BASED', WHY ARE THERE FEWER LISTENERS ALONG
> WITH A RELUCTANCE FOR ADVERTISERS TO BUY ON-AIR TIME?
> DOESN'T "GANG-BANGING" A 4 or 5 MINUTE STOP-SET DEFEAT THE
> PURPOSE OF COMMUNICATING ONE-TO-ONE WITH A LISTENER?
>
> CONTRARY TO YOUR OPINION...SIMPLER ISN'T NECESSARILY
> BAD....IF IT PRODUCES MORE LISTENERS AND MORE ADVERTISERS.
>
>
> IF ANY BUSINESS HAS THE MINDSET: "WE ONLY WANT A CERTAIN AGE
> DEMOGRAPHIC (25-49) AND WE'LL STRICTLY CATER TO ONLY THAT
> GROUP"----HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THEY'LL STAY IN BUSINESS?
> PARTICULARLY WHEN A 49-YEAR OLD CAN TURN 50 WITHIN THE
> COURSE OF A YEAR???
>
> argytunes
>
First of all, I never said or tried to imply it was "better." It is just the current state of the business. There are fewer listners because there are many more ways now for them to gather infomation and hear the music that they're interested in. We're no longer the only game in town as we were for years and years.

Again, I never said or implied that simpler is bad. However, it doesn't necessarily produce more listeners and advertisers. I said that the way things used to be done doesn't work in todays world. The listener is much more sophisticated and wants more.

If you want to discuss niche marketing for demographics that's another discussion altogether. You can't program for the masses and expect to win. You have to choose a demo and go for it. Then superserve the hell out of it in order to win. To think that you can program a station that will appeal to all people from 12-54 is ridiculous.

 

[argytunes]

> > >> Argy I mean no disrespect, but your concept of how
> radio
> > > works certainly doesn't fit todays model. It's nice to
> > think
> > > back to a simpler time, but the world of corporate radio
>
> > > works differently. And since it's not going away anytime
>
> > > soon, you can either get on board and play the game or
> eat
> >
> > > dust, ie: find another job outside the biz.
> >
> > BUT KNOWING HOW SUCCESSFUL "TODAY'S MODEL" IS...AND THAT
> > ANYBODY WITH MONEY CAN PURCHASE A RADIO STATION IN THE
> > MORNING AND SELL IT BY LATE AFTERNOON...IS THE CORPORATE
> > RADIO PHILOSOPHY THAT MUCH BETTER?
> >
> > ANSWER ME ONE QUESTION...IF YOU DON'T MIND????
> >
> > IF CORPORATE RADIO IS NOW 'THE STANDARD BY WHICH ALL RADIO
>
> > STATIONS ARE BASED', WHY ARE THERE FEWER LISTENERS ALONG
> > WITH A RELUCTANCE FOR ADVERTISERS TO BUY ON-AIR TIME?
> > DOESN'T "GANG-BANGING" A 4 or 5 MINUTE STOP-SET DEFEAT THE
>
> > PURPOSE OF COMMUNICATING ONE-TO-ONE WITH A LISTENER?
> >
> > CONTRARY TO YOUR OPINION...SIMPLER ISN'T NECESSARILY
> > BAD....IF IT PRODUCES MORE LISTENERS AND MORE ADVERTISERS.
>
> >
> >
> > IF ANY BUSINESS HAS THE MINDSET: "WE ONLY WANT A CERTAIN
> AGE
> > DEMOGRAPHIC (25-49) AND WE'LL STRICTLY CATER TO ONLY THAT
> > GROUP"----HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THEY'LL STAY IN BUSINESS?
>
> > PARTICULARLY WHEN A 49-YEAR OLD CAN TURN 50 WITHIN THE
> > COURSE OF A YEAR???
> >
> > argytunes
> >
> First of all, I never said or tried to imply it was
> "better." It is just the current state of the business.
> There are fewer listners because there are many more ways
> now for them to gather infomation and hear the music that
> they're interested in. We're no longer the only game in town
> as we were for years and years.

EXACTLY! BUT DOESN'T IT MAKE MORE SENSE FOR A RADIO STATION TO OFFER A "UNIQUE PRODUCT" THAT SERVES ITS AUDIENCE AND ITS ADVERTISERS...INSTEAD OF TURNING TO A CORPORATE CONCEPTION OF "HOW RADIO SHOULD SOUND?" IS IT MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE OWNER TO MAKE MONEY BY SACRIFICING ONE-TO-ONE COMMUNICATION? RUN UP AND DOWN THE AM/FM DIAL AND LISTEN TO THE ANNOUNCERS WHO ACTUALLY "COMMUNICATE" WITH YOU AS OPPOSED TO THE ONES THAT YELL AT YOU! [AND I'M TALKING EVERY ANNOUNCER FROM AN AIR PERSONALITY TO A COMMERCIAL SPOKESPERSON].
>
> Again, I never said or implied that simpler is bad. However,
> it doesn't necessarily produce more listeners and
> advertisers. I said that the way things used to be done
> doesn't work in todays world. DID YOUR MOM TELL YOU THIS? OR AN EMPLOYER WHO IS PROBABLY WORRIED THAT HIS POSITION MIGHT BE EXCISED BECAUSE OF A "CORPORATE BOTTOM LINE FINANCE SHEET?"

The listener is much more
> sophisticated and wants more. BUT IS HE OR SHE ACTUALLY GETTING MORE??? ONCE AGAIN...SCAN THE RADIO DIAL AND LISTEN TO WHAT'S COMING OUT OF THE SPEAKERS?
>
> If you want to discuss niche marketing for demographics
> that's another discussion altogether. You can't program for
> the masses and expect to win. You have to choose a demo and
> go for it. Then superserve the hell out of it in order to
> win. To think that you can program a station that will
> appeal to all people from 12-54 is ridiculous.

I DON'T THINK I INDICATED THAT ANY RADIO STATION SHOULD "PROGRAM FOR THE MASSES", BUT THAT SOME STATIONS AUTOMATICALLY DISMISS A CERTAIN AGE FACTOR BASED ON THE SALE OF CONSUMER PRODUCTS! I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S A "ONE SIZE FITS ALL FORMAT" ANYWHERE?

WHAT RADIO PERSONNEL STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT ALL AGE GROUPS HAVE MONEY...AND IF AN ADVERTISER WANTS A PIECE OF THE ACTION...YELLING AND SCREAMING ISN'T NECESSARILY THE BEST OPTION TO MAKE HIS (OR HER) POINT IN ORDER TO MAKE A PROFIT FROM A LISTENER! [TO USE AN EXAMPLE, MANY OF THE LOCAL CAR DEALERSHIPS WHO BUY RADIO OR TV TIME WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THE "LESS SCREAMING, LESS OBNOXIOUS" CONCEPT EITHER].

I GUESS IT'S EASIER FOR A RADIO GROUP TO BLAME ECONOMICS OR AN INCOMPETENT PERSON---THAN LOOK AT THE REAL PROBLEM WITH RADIO---WHICH IS "MORE CORPORATE COMFORMITY!" WITH THIS MINDSET, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT MOST LISTENERS ONLY STICK WITH A STATION FOR 15 OR 20 MINUTES AT A TIME?

argytunes

 

[Oldbones]

> EXACTLY! BUT DOESN'T IT MAKE MORE SENSE FOR A RADIO STATION
> TO OFFER A "UNIQUE PRODUCT" THAT SERVES ITS AUDIENCE AND ITS
> ADVERTISERS...INSTEAD OF TURNING TO A CORPORATE CONCEPTION
> OF "HOW RADIO SHOULD SOUND?" IS IT MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE
> OWNER TO MAKE MONEY BY SACRIFICING ONE-TO-ONE COMMUNICATION?
> RUN UP AND DOWN THE AM/FM DIAL AND LISTEN TO THE ANNOUNCERS
> WHO ACTUALLY "COMMUNICATE" WITH YOU AS OPPOSED TO THE ONES
> THAT YELL AT YOU! [AND I'M TALKING EVERY ANNOUNCER FROM AN
> AIR PERSONALITY TO A COMMERCIAL SPOKESPERSON].

I've worked in the biz off & on since 1972, and I don't remember a whole lot of "one-to-one communicators" even back then. Yeah there were a few but just like today they were vastly outnumbered by liner-card/time & temp jocks or the "ones that yell at you". Even the laid-back album radio jocks were as much of an act as the Top 40 screamers.

> > it doesn't necessarily produce more listeners and
> > advertisers. I said that the way things used to be done
> > doesn't work in todays world. DID YOUR MOM TELL YOU THIS?
> OR AN EMPLOYER WHO IS PROBABLY WORRIED THAT HIS POSITION
> MIGHT BE EXCISED BECAUSE OF A "CORPORATE BOTTOM LINE FINANCE
> SHEET?"

Uh, name me one business that the way things used to be done still works today? It's not 1972 anymore, why do you think bringing back 1972 radio will work?

>
> WHAT RADIO PERSONNEL STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT ALL AGE
> GROUPS HAVE MONEY...AND IF AN ADVERTISER WANTS A PIECE OF
> THE ACTION...YELLING AND SCREAMING ISN'T NECESSARILY THE
> BEST OPTION TO MAKE HIS (OR HER) POINT IN ORDER TO MAKE A
> PROFIT FROM A LISTENER! [TO USE AN EXAMPLE, MANY OF THE
> LOCAL CAR DEALERSHIPS WHO BUY RADIO OR TV TIME WILL NEVER
> UNDERSTAND THE "LESS SCREAMING, LESS OBNOXIOUS" CONCEPT
> EITHER].

You hit the nail on the head right there. If you don't deliver what your advertisers want, they'll find someone who will. As long as car dealers think screaming fast-talking commercials work...that's what we'll get. If the advertising community doesn't care about reaching a 55+ demographic, then stations that program to that group won't get many advertisers.

>
> I GUESS IT'S EASIER FOR A RADIO GROUP TO BLAME ECONOMICS OR
> AN INCOMPETENT PERSON---THAN LOOK AT THE REAL PROBLEM WITH
> RADIO---WHICH IS "MORE CORPORATE COMFORMITY!" WITH THIS
> MINDSET, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT MOST LISTENERS ONLY STICK
> WITH A STATION FOR 15 OR 20 MINUTES AT A TIME?
>

And I guess it's equally easy to blame everything on the "corporate bean counters" than to admit that the world (and this biz) has changed over the years. You don't have to like it, just realize it.

 

[argytunes]

> > EXACTLY! BUT DOESN'T IT MAKE MORE SENSE FOR A RADIO
> STATION
> > TO OFFER A "UNIQUE PRODUCT" THAT SERVES ITS AUDIENCE AND
> ITS
> > ADVERTISERS...INSTEAD OF TURNING TO A CORPORATE CONCEPTION
>
> > OF "HOW RADIO SHOULD SOUND?" IS IT MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE
>
> > OWNER TO MAKE MONEY BY SACRIFICING ONE-TO-ONE
> COMMUNICATION?
> > RUN UP AND DOWN THE AM/FM DIAL AND LISTEN TO THE
> ANNOUNCERS
> > WHO ACTUALLY "COMMUNICATE" WITH YOU AS OPPOSED TO THE ONES
>
> > THAT YELL AT YOU! [AND I'M TALKING EVERY ANNOUNCER FROM
> AN
> > AIR PERSONALITY TO A COMMERCIAL SPOKESPERSON].
>
> I've worked in the biz off & on since 1972, and I don't
> remember a whole lot of "one-to-one communicators" even back
> then. Yeah there were a few but just like today they were
> vastly outnumbered by liner-card/time & temp jocks or the
> "ones that yell at you". Even the laid-back album radio
> jocks were as much of an act as the Top 40 screamers.

WELL, I GUESS IF YOU'RE SO BIG ON "REALIZING HOW RADIO HAS CHANGED"---PERHAPS IT'S DUE FOR A LITTLE MORE THAN JUST A FEW LINERS VOICED BY A "HYPER-ACTIVE ON-AIR PERSONALITY?"

Uh, name me one business that the way things used to be done
> still works today? It's not 1972 anymore, why do you think
> bringing back 1972 radio will work?
I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT "BRINGING BACK 1972 RADIO"---I THINK MY REFERENCE POINT WAS TRYING TO CONVINCE THE 'VOICE TRACKERS' TO SOUND A LITTLE LESS "CANNED?" SINCE NAME DROPPING IS TACKY...I GUESS YOU'LL HAVE TO SCAN THE DIAL ONE MORE TIME? IT'S PRETTY EASY TO TELL WHICH ANNOUNCERS ARE 'VOICE TRACKING' BASED ON THE TONES OF THEIR VOICES.

>
> >
> > WHAT RADIO PERSONNEL STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT ALL
> AGE
> > GROUPS HAVE MONEY...AND IF AN ADVERTISER WANTS A PIECE OF
> > THE ACTION...YELLING AND SCREAMING ISN'T NECESSARILY THE
> > BEST OPTION TO MAKE HIS (OR HER) POINT IN ORDER TO MAKE A
> > PROFIT FROM A LISTENER! [TO USE AN EXAMPLE, MANY OF THE
> > LOCAL CAR DEALERSHIPS WHO BUY RADIO OR TV TIME WILL NEVER
> > UNDERSTAND THE "LESS SCREAMING, LESS OBNOXIOUS" CONCEPT
> > EITHER].
>
> You hit the nail on the head right there. If you don't
> deliver what your advertisers want, they'll find someone who
> will. As long as car dealers think screaming fast-talking
> commercials work...that's what we'll get. If the
> advertising community doesn't care about reaching a 55+
> demographic, then stations that program to that group won't
> get many advertisers.

I'M GLAD WE AGREE ON SOMETHING????
>
> >
> > I GUESS IT'S EASIER FOR A RADIO GROUP TO BLAME ECONOMICS
> OR
> > AN INCOMPETENT PERSON---THAN LOOK AT THE REAL PROBLEM WITH
>
> > RADIO---WHICH IS "MORE CORPORATE COMFORMITY!" WITH THIS
> > MINDSET, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT MOST LISTENERS ONLY STICK
> > WITH A STATION FOR 15 OR 20 MINUTES AT A TIME?
> >
>
> And I guess it's equally easy to blame everything on the
> "corporate bean counters" than to admit that the world (and
> this biz) has changed over the years. You don't have to
> like it, just realize it.

'REALIZING' IS ONE THING....'SUPPORTING IT' IS SOMETHING ELSE??? CAN YOU HONESTLY SAY THAT THE STATION YOU'RE CONNECTED WITH (OR ANY OTHER FOR THAT MATTER) HAS THE SAME AMOUNT OF "LISTENER LOYALTY & SUPPORT" THAT WAS PRESENT EVEN 5 YEARS AGO? I'LL BET IT DOESN'T??? [

MAYBE MY CRITICISM OF RADIO COMES A LITTLE EASIER SINCE (UNLIKE OTHERS WHO HAVE READ THIS THREAD ALL THE WAY THROUGH), I'M NOT DEPENDING UPON A WEEKLY PAY CHECK FROM A PARTICULAR RADIO GROUP OR RADIO STATION? SOMETIMES...IT'S EASIER TO TAKE AN HONEST LOOK AT ANY BUSINESS WHEN YOU'RE NOT AFFLIATED WITH IT IN SOME WAY?

argytunes
>

 

[CharlieInMaine]

> > WBLM: Deep playlist and jocks that aren't afraid to throw
> on a deep cut.
> > Frank: Same 150 songs, can't decide if it's a classic rock
> or oldies station.
>
> The format is "classic hits". It's neither classic rock or
> oldies. It's a hybrid of parts of both of those formats,
> limited to rock and pop/rock hits of the classic rock era
> without dipping into album cuts.
>
> "Classic hits" is for listeners who want to hear the same
> short playlist of familiar tried and true hits over and over
> again and are turned off when they hear any "deep cuts" that
> they may not know, rather than classic rock listeners who
> may be somewhat more adventurous.
>

As the PD for 2 Classis Hits stations, I could not disagree more.

Charlie

 

[radiopirate]

> > > >> Argy I mean no disrespect, but your concept of how
> > radio
> > > > works certainly doesn't fit todays model. It's nice to
>
> > > think
> > > > back to a simpler time, but the world of corporate
> radio
> >
> > > > works differently. And since it's not going away
> anytime
> >
> > > > soon, you can either get on board and play the game or
>
> > eat
> > >
> > > > dust, ie: find another job outside the biz.
> > >
> > > BUT KNOWING HOW SUCCESSFUL "TODAY'S MODEL" IS...AND THAT
>
> > > ANYBODY WITH MONEY CAN PURCHASE A RADIO STATION IN THE
> > > MORNING AND SELL IT BY LATE AFTERNOON...IS THE CORPORATE
>
> > > RADIO PHILOSOPHY THAT MUCH BETTER?
> > >
> > > ANSWER ME ONE QUESTION...IF YOU DON'T MIND????
> > >
> > > IF CORPORATE RADIO IS NOW 'THE STANDARD BY WHICH ALL
> RADIO
> >
> > > STATIONS ARE BASED', WHY ARE THERE FEWER LISTENERS ALONG
>
> > > WITH A RELUCTANCE FOR ADVERTISERS TO BUY ON-AIR TIME?
> > > DOESN'T "GANG-BANGING" A 4 or 5 MINUTE STOP-SET DEFEAT
> THE
> >
> > > PURPOSE OF COMMUNICATING ONE-TO-ONE WITH A LISTENER?
> > >
> > > CONTRARY TO YOUR OPINION...SIMPLER ISN'T NECESSARILY
> > > BAD....IF IT PRODUCES MORE LISTENERS AND MORE
> ADVERTISERS.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > IF ANY BUSINESS HAS THE MINDSET: "WE ONLY WANT A CERTAIN
>
> > AGE
> > > DEMOGRAPHIC (25-49) AND WE'LL STRICTLY CATER TO ONLY
> THAT
> > > GROUP"----HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THEY'LL STAY IN
> BUSINESS?
> >
> > > PARTICULARLY WHEN A 49-YEAR OLD CAN TURN 50 WITHIN THE
> > > COURSE OF A YEAR???
> > >
> > > argytunes
> > >
> > First of all, I never said or tried to imply it was
> > "better." It is just the current state of the business.
> > There are fewer listners because there are many more ways
> > now for them to gather infomation and hear the music that
> > they're interested in. We're no longer the only game in
> town
> > as we were for years and years.
>
> EXACTLY! BUT DOESN'T IT MAKE MORE SENSE FOR A RADIO STATION
> TO OFFER A "UNIQUE PRODUCT" THAT SERVES ITS AUDIENCE AND ITS
> ADVERTISERS...INSTEAD OF TURNING TO A CORPORATE CONCEPTION
> OF "HOW RADIO SHOULD SOUND?" IS IT MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE
> OWNER TO MAKE MONEY BY SACRIFICING ONE-TO-ONE COMMUNICATION?
> RUN UP AND DOWN THE AM/FM DIAL AND LISTEN TO THE ANNOUNCERS
> WHO ACTUALLY "COMMUNICATE" WITH YOU AS OPPOSED TO THE ONES
> THAT YELL AT YOU! [AND I'M TALKING EVERY ANNOUNCER FROM AN
> AIR PERSONALITY TO A COMMERCIAL SPOKESPERSON].
> >
> > Again, I never said or implied that simpler is bad.
> However,
> > it doesn't necessarily produce more listeners and
> > advertisers. I said that the way things used to be done
> > doesn't work in todays world. DID YOUR MOM TELL YOU THIS?
> OR AN EMPLOYER WHO IS PROBABLY WORRIED THAT HIS POSITION
> MIGHT BE EXCISED BECAUSE OF A "CORPORATE BOTTOM LINE FINANCE
> SHEET?"
>
> The listener is much more
> > sophisticated and wants more. BUT IS HE OR SHE ACTUALLY
> GETTING MORE??? ONCE AGAIN...SCAN THE RADIO DIAL AND LISTEN
> TO WHAT'S COMING OUT OF THE SPEAKERS?
> >
> > If you want to discuss niche marketing for demographics
> > that's another discussion altogether. You can't program
> for
> > the masses and expect to win. You have to choose a demo
> and
> > go for it. Then superserve the hell out of it in order to
> > win. To think that you can program a station that will
> > appeal to all people from 12-54 is ridiculous.
>
> I DON'T THINK I INDICATED THAT ANY RADIO STATION SHOULD
> "PROGRAM FOR THE MASSES", BUT THAT SOME STATIONS
> AUTOMATICALLY DISMISS A CERTAIN AGE FACTOR BASED ON THE SALE
> OF CONSUMER PRODUCTS! I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S A "ONE SIZE
> FITS ALL FORMAT" ANYWHERE?
>
> WHAT RADIO PERSONNEL STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT ALL AGE
> GROUPS HAVE MONEY...AND IF AN ADVERTISER WANTS A PIECE OF
> THE ACTION...YELLING AND SCREAMING ISN'T NECESSARILY THE
> BEST OPTION TO MAKE HIS (OR HER) POINT IN ORDER TO MAKE A
> PROFIT FROM A LISTENER! [TO USE AN EXAMPLE, MANY OF THE
> LOCAL CAR DEALERSHIPS WHO BUY RADIO OR TV TIME WILL NEVER
> UNDERSTAND THE "LESS SCREAMING, LESS OBNOXIOUS" CONCEPT
> EITHER].
>
> I GUESS IT'S EASIER FOR A RADIO GROUP TO BLAME ECONOMICS OR
> AN INCOMPETENT PERSON---THAN LOOK AT THE REAL PROBLEM WITH
> RADIO---WHICH IS "MORE CORPORATE COMFORMITY!" WITH THIS
> MINDSET, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT MOST LISTENERS ONLY STICK
> WITH A STATION FOR 15 OR 20 MINUTES AT A TIME?
>
> argytunes
>
Argy in today's radio world what is a "unique product"? If you're going to put a format on the air, then you need to research the market place and find out what "hole" exists. Then you research that format which is missing and you put it on the air. You don't just throw something on the air because you think it will work ro because it's different and you think because you like it others will too.

We're talking about millions of $$$$ being invested. Nobody is going to take a chance on what they think might work. They want to have the numbers and the specifics to back it up. What some of you keep forgetting or ignoring is this is a business designed to make money for people that want a return on their investment. This aint mom n pop radio. Corporate conformity isn't always bad. I guarantee when you're winning and your check clears on payday, a little corporate conformity sounds like a good thing.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

> > The format is "classic hits". It's neither classic rock or
> > oldies. It's a hybrid of parts of both of those formats,
> > limited to rock and pop/rock hits of the classic rock era
> > without dipping into album cuts.
> >
> > "Classic hits" is for listeners who want to hear the same
> > short playlist of familiar tried and true hits over and over
> > again and are turned off when they hear any "deep cuts" that
> > they may not know, rather than classic rock listeners who
> > may be somewhat more adventurous.
> >
>
> As the PD for 2 Classis Hits stations, I could not disagree more.

In what way? You're in a position to elaborate, so I'd be interested to hear your definition.

I know that here in Boston, WROR was "Classic Hits" with a short, narrow, repetitive playlist. A few years ago they tried adding some "deep" cuts from Classic Rock albums of the late 60's/70's AOR era to their mix. I enjoyed it, but the experiment tanked their ratings. They went back to the narrow, repetitive "Classic Hits" playlist, and their ratings shot back up.

 

[sleepingtree]

Argy-
It's not radio people that need to be convinced that there is money in different demos. It's not even our bosses or our A/Es--it's the people who are buying ads that need to be convinced. See the discussion about WLAM above-this was a station, that got ratings (even if they were small) but it couldn't pull in the ad revenue. That's not because of bad salesmanship--it's because the advertisers just weren't interested in the demo WLAM served.

Like it or not, this commercial radio. Formats are driven in part by what the advertisers want. Example: If "radio people" got to call the shots, there would be no more voicers from car delaerships. Annoying, ineffective and stale are all ways to describe these ads--yet you keep hearing them. Why? Because it's what the advertisers want. Another example outside of broadcasting is newspapers. Newspaper readership isn't down, but ad sales are...why? Because advertisers, regardless of the facts-are certain that no one they want to target reads the paper anymore.

I don't think any of us disagree with what you're saying-but you don't get it-we make a product-and our client has to want to buy it. LEGO didn't want to make Star Wars and other commercial type sets-but they had too because it was what the consumers wanted. This is a business.

I'm not saying I don't hope more broadcasters take risks-but let's not put the blame on "radio people." I've met some very creative types who make some very big programming decisions-and I'm sure if they thought it could be sold, they would make some very big changes...


> > > >> Argy I mean no disrespect, but your concept of how
> > radio
> > > > works certainly doesn't fit todays model. It's nice to
>
> > > think
> > > > back to a simpler time, but the world of corporate
> radio
> >
> > > > works differently. And since it's not going away
> anytime
> >
> > > > soon, you can either get on board and play the game or
>
> > eat
> > >
> > > > dust, ie: find another job outside the biz.
> > >
> > > BUT KNOWING HOW SUCCESSFUL "TODAY'S MODEL" IS...AND THAT
>
> > > ANYBODY WITH MONEY CAN PURCHASE A RADIO STATION IN THE
> > > MORNING AND SELL IT BY LATE AFTERNOON...IS THE CORPORATE
>
> > > RADIO PHILOSOPHY THAT MUCH BETTER?
> > >
> > > ANSWER ME ONE QUESTION...IF YOU DON'T MIND????
> > >
> > > IF CORPORATE RADIO IS NOW 'THE STANDARD BY WHICH ALL
> RADIO
> >
> > > STATIONS ARE BASED', WHY ARE THERE FEWER LISTENERS ALONG
>
> > > WITH A RELUCTANCE FOR ADVERTISERS TO BUY ON-AIR TIME?
> > > DOESN'T "GANG-BANGING" A 4 or 5 MINUTE STOP-SET DEFEAT
> THE
> >
> > > PURPOSE OF COMMUNICATING ONE-TO-ONE WITH A LISTENER?
> > >
> > > CONTRARY TO YOUR OPINION...SIMPLER ISN'T NECESSARILY
> > > BAD....IF IT PRODUCES MORE LISTENERS AND MORE
> ADVERTISERS.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > IF ANY BUSINESS HAS THE MINDSET: "WE ONLY WANT A CERTAIN
>
> > AGE
> > > DEMOGRAPHIC (25-49) AND WE'LL STRICTLY CATER TO ONLY
> THAT
> > > GROUP"----HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THEY'LL STAY IN
> BUSINESS?
> >
> > > PARTICULARLY WHEN A 49-YEAR OLD CAN TURN 50 WITHIN THE
> > > COURSE OF A YEAR???
> > >
> > > argytunes
> > >
> > First of all, I never said or tried to imply it was
> > "better." It is just the current state of the business.
> > There are fewer listners because there are many more ways
> > now for them to gather infomation and hear the music that
> > they're interested in. We're no longer the only game in
> town
> > as we were for years and years.
>
> EXACTLY! BUT DOESN'T IT MAKE MORE SENSE FOR A RADIO STATION
> TO OFFER A "UNIQUE PRODUCT" THAT SERVES ITS AUDIENCE AND ITS
> ADVERTISERS...INSTEAD OF TURNING TO A CORPORATE CONCEPTION
> OF "HOW RADIO SHOULD SOUND?" IS IT MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE
> OWNER TO MAKE MONEY BY SACRIFICING ONE-TO-ONE COMMUNICATION?
> RUN UP AND DOWN THE AM/FM DIAL AND LISTEN TO THE ANNOUNCERS
> WHO ACTUALLY "COMMUNICATE" WITH YOU AS OPPOSED TO THE ONES
> THAT YELL AT YOU! [AND I'M TALKING EVERY ANNOUNCER FROM AN
> AIR PERSONALITY TO A COMMERCIAL SPOKESPERSON].
> >
> > Again, I never said or implied that simpler is bad.
> However,
> > it doesn't necessarily produce more listeners and
> > advertisers. I said that the way things used to be done
> > doesn't work in todays world. DID YOUR MOM TELL YOU THIS?
> OR AN EMPLOYER WHO IS PROBABLY WORRIED THAT HIS POSITION
> MIGHT BE EXCISED BECAUSE OF A "CORPORATE BOTTOM LINE FINANCE
> SHEET?"
>
> The listener is much more
> > sophisticated and wants more. BUT IS HE OR SHE ACTUALLY
> GETTING MORE??? ONCE AGAIN...SCAN THE RADIO DIAL AND LISTEN
> TO WHAT'S COMING OUT OF THE SPEAKERS?
> >
> > If you want to discuss niche marketing for demographics
> > that's another discussion altogether. You can't program
> for
> > the masses and expect to win. You have to choose a demo
> and
> > go for it. Then superserve the hell out of it in order to
> > win. To think that you can program a station that will
> > appeal to all people from 12-54 is ridiculous.
>
> I DON'T THINK I INDICATED THAT ANY RADIO STATION SHOULD
> "PROGRAM FOR THE MASSES", BUT THAT SOME STATIONS
> AUTOMATICALLY DISMISS A CERTAIN AGE FACTOR BASED ON THE SALE
> OF CONSUMER PRODUCTS! I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S A "ONE SIZE
> FITS ALL FORMAT" ANYWHERE?
>
> WHAT RADIO PERSONNEL STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT ALL AGE
> GROUPS HAVE MONEY...AND IF AN ADVERTISER WANTS A PIECE OF
> THE ACTION...YELLING AND SCREAMING ISN'T NECESSARILY THE
> BEST OPTION TO MAKE HIS (OR HER) POINT IN ORDER TO MAKE A
> PROFIT FROM A LISTENER! [TO USE AN EXAMPLE, MANY OF THE
> LOCAL CAR DEALERSHIPS WHO BUY RADIO OR TV TIME WILL NEVER
> UNDERSTAND THE "LESS SCREAMING, LESS OBNOXIOUS" CONCEPT
> EITHER].
>
> I GUESS IT'S EASIER FOR A RADIO GROUP TO BLAME ECONOMICS OR
> AN INCOMPETENT PERSON---THAN LOOK AT THE REAL PROBLEM WITH
> RADIO---WHICH IS "MORE CORPORATE COMFORMITY!" WITH THIS
> MINDSET, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT MOST LISTENERS ONLY STICK
> WITH A STATION FOR 15 OR 20 MINUTES AT A TIME?
>
> argytunes
>

 

[sleepingtree]

I'd be curious to see which stations you think are voice tracked...

 

[ThreeFer]

> > If Frank has another slide in the ratings, perhaps they
> > should switch back to being jockless. People seemed to
> like
> > it better that way.
>
>
> let's not forget they were also COMMERCIAL free not just
> jock free ... i don't think frank's inoffensive jocks cause
> many people to tune out.
>

I love your word choice. "Inoffensive." This is merely another way of saying "bland," "samey" and "liner-card readers." Did you mean one of these, or were you suggesting that the FCC would never be beating down their door?

Bottom line, all the jocks do are repeat the same "9 noon and 5" crap that the imaging already establishes. Can you honestly remember ANYTHING significant Mr Fox or Mr Erickson or whoever said in their shows, uhh, sorry, AIRSHIFTS (there's a difference) this week that didn't have to do with music marathons?

I will say Frank has a better website than WBLM. But you don't put URL's on an arbitron diary, now do you.

 

[CharlieInMaine]

> > > The format is "classic hits". It's neither classic rock
> or
> > > oldies. It's a hybrid of parts of both of those formats,
>
> > > limited to rock and pop/rock hits of the classic rock
> era
> > > without dipping into album cuts.
> > >
> > > "Classic hits" is for listeners who want to hear the
> same
> > > short playlist of familiar tried and true hits over and
> over
> > > again and are turned off when they hear any "deep cuts"
> that
> > > they may not know, rather than classic rock listeners
> who
> > > may be somewhat more adventurous.
> > >
> >
> > As the PD for 2 Classis Hits stations, I could not
> disagree more.
>
> In what way? You're in a position to elaborate, so I'd be
> interested to hear your definition.
>
> I know that here in Boston, WROR was "Classic Hits" with a
> short, narrow, repetitive playlist. A few years ago they
> tried adding some "deep" cuts from Classic Rock albums of
> the late 60's/70's AOR era to their mix. I enjoyed it, but
> the experiment tanked their ratings. They went back to the
> narrow, repetitive "Classic Hits" playlist, and their
> ratings shot back up.
>

I certainly would not argue that with you. I suppose in a large market where people had a lot of choices that they would be more likely to push the button when they heard something that was not familiar or a song that they did not care for.

I am working in a smaller market where there are not a lot of stations to choose from so people tend to listen longer. For a lot of people the radio comes on in the morning and is on all day - especially at work. I see that time and time again.

Right now our playlist is over 3000 songs. We have almost 3800 songs in our "digital library" from the 60's, 70's, and early 80's.

If we hammer away at those top songs, the ones that are known to everyone, over and over again we would eventually fail due to boring our listeners to death.

I get a lot of listener feedback and a couple of things come to mind here...

As we do play deep cuts - take any artist as an example, say that artist had 12 Top-40 hits ... a lot of stations are going to play those top 5 songs or whatever. The rest are shuffled off to the side. Or, forget hits, songs like (Eagles) Tequila Sunrise and Desperado, (Bob Seger) Her Strut, (Led Zeppelin) Stariway To Heaven, were not hits. That list goes on and on and on.... I have a lot of folks say to me, "I've never heard that song but I like it" in relation to a song that is played.

I figure it is better to discover a good song by a classic artist that you did not know, than to hear Another One Bites The Dust or Hotel California yet again.

Also, as far as the deeper classic rock cuts that you mention.... I get a lot of heat from "guys" that want to hear a harder edged rock sound, and just the opposite from a lot of women. We control the rotation of course so we can keep certain songs playing in the right daypart.

My girlfriend HATES Dr. Hook. Hearing Dr. Hook nearly drives her into a rage. Recently we were driving down the road and Dr. Hook came on so she reached down and snapped the radio off automatically and started ranting "I don't know why you play that #$%@."

We went into a store and the radio was on in there and the song was still playing. A lady that works there commented to me that she "loves Dr. Hook ... they are my favorite."

I've listened to other Classic Hits radio stations and what they are doing is far more predictable and far tighter than what we are doing.

What you are saying is probably right for a large market. I know that here in a small area that we have to stretch it out and mix it up a bit to keep it fresh enough for people to be able to listen all day and not hear the same stuff over and over and over.

Charlie

 

[Eli Polonsky]

> Right now our playlist is over 3000 songs. We have almost
> 3800 songs in our "digital library" from the 60's, 70's, and
> early 80's.

That's excellent that you're making that work there!

I would like to be able to hear the station. Unless you're streaming, I'll have to take a ride up sometime and check it out (though I'm not sure which one it is).

> If we hammer away at those top songs, the ones that are
> known to everyone, over and over again we would eventually
> fail due to boring our listeners to death.

Sounds like, in general, a larger percentage listeners may want more variety in that smaller market area than here in the big city. There are certainly people who want to hear deeper tracks here (myself included), but they are a "vocal minority" here in the city.

Whenever the stations here respond too much to that "vocal minority" with too many "deep cuts" or lesser hits, they start to lose the "silent majority" of the urban corporate workplace who just want familiar stuff for the background of their stressful workday and commute in traffic, etc... those are the ones who don't call radio stations, but if they're not served with their favorites, they turn the dial and the ratings decline.

> I get a lot of listener feedback and a couple of things come
> to mind here...
>
> As we do play deep cuts - take any artist as an example, say
> that artist had 12 Top-40 hits ... a lot of stations are
> going to play those top 5 songs or whatever. The rest are
> shuffled off to the side. Or, forget hits, songs like
> (Eagles) Tequila Sunrise and Desperado, (Bob Seger) Her
> Strut, (Led Zeppelin) Stariway To Heaven, were not hits.
> That list goes on and on and on.... I have a lot of folks
> say to me, "I've never heard that song but I like it" in
> relation to a song that is played.

Unfortunately, only a small minority here in the city seem to have the patience to absorb something they don't already know, especially during the hectic daytime.

It sounds like in a smaller market, you can judge a lot more by audience reaction and feedback. I like that. In the city, the active feedback comes from such a "vocal minority" that it's sometimes the opposite of what the "silent majority" seems to want as reflected in the ratings.

> I figure it is better to discover a good song by a classic
> artist that you did not know, than to hear Another One Bites
> The Dust or Hotel California yet again.

I certainly agree with that. I wish more of the audience here did.

I did a show on a non-comm college station in Boston for many years that focused on "deeper cuts" of the 60's and 70's, and it was one of the most popular programs on the station, always one of their top draw shows at pledge time.

However, I knew that my audience was only a small "cult following" in the city, barely a grain of sand compared to major market commercial audiences. It was the "vocal minority" who were turned off by the repetition up the dial, though much of the material I played was tracks by major artists that had previously been played on the commercial rock stations in past years, but were dropped as they tightened up to maintain their ratings among the "silent majority".

> Also, as far as the deeper classic rock cuts that you
> mention.... I get a lot of heat from "guys" that want to
> hear a harder edged rock sound, and just the opposite from a
> lot of women. We control the rotation of course so we can
> keep certain songs playing in the right daypart.

Here in Boston the "classic rock" station WZLX generally skews a bit more male, and the "classic hits" station WROR generally skews a bit more female. However, in the past year or so, WROR has overtaken WZLX a bit in the overall ratings, after many years the other way around.

The "deeper" AOR show I did on the non-comm station definitely went more male, but I got a good response from a number of female fans as well.

> I've listened to other Classic Hits radio stations and what
> they are doing is far more predictable and far tighter than
> what we are doing.
>
> What you are saying is probably right for a large market. I
> know that here in a small area that we have to stretch it
> out and mix it up a bit to keep it fresh enough for people
> to be able to listen all day and not hear the same stuff
> over and over and over.

Well, though most of my experience is non-comm (both college and professional public radio) it sounds like I'll have to try coming up there with a demo and resume one of these days. I like your programming philosophy, and it sounds like your listenership responds well. I've always wanted to get out of the stress of the city someday anyway!