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WBLS Top Amoung 35-64 Demos in May Arbitron

K

kevinsealy

Dave Hinckley's column in today's Daily News reports that WBLS finished with an 8.3 share, followed by WCBS-FM 8.2 and WLTW 7.9.

With WBLS's looking good, how will Madison Avenue ignore these numbers, even though it's not the 25-54 target demos?



Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy
 
The over 50 crowd is growing, but does that make them any easier to sell to? The resistance of agencies to the older demos is and has always been that the older a consumer gets, the more costly it becomes to influence their purchasing decisions. It's not that they can't be influenced, it's that it becomes so expensive to attempt to do so that it's not worth it.

Has that changed?
 
reelyreal said:
The over 50 crowd is growing, but does that make them any easier to sell to? The resistance of agencies to the older demos is and has always been that the older a consumer gets, the more costly it becomes to influence their purchasing decisions. It's not that they can't be influenced, it's that it becomes so expensive to attempt to do so that it's not worth it.

Has that changed?
Click to expand...

No, that has not changed. And there is somewhat of a trend towards looking at 18-49 more than 25-54 as the overall "catch-all" demo.

In TV, 18-49 is the sales demo and the one that pretty much determines whether shows get renewed or not. While CBS has been campaigning at the agency and client level to also recognize 35-64 and the value that 55-64 brings to advertisers, there does not seem to be much sign that the needle has moved... despite encouraging editorials and articles everywhere from Ad Age to the online journals.

Of course, the decisions on targeting are mostly coming from the client, not the agency. The agency just does what it is told, or it gets whacked.
 
Kevin L. Sealy said:
With WBLS's looking good, how will Madison Avenue ignore these numbers, even though it's not the 25-54 target demos?
Click to expand...

WBLS is also 3rd in 25-54, right behind Lite and Z-100.

Because of the change in competition where the major, head-on competitor was eliminated, and the change in ownership, where bankruptcy no longer zooms on the horizon, WBLS is going to bill a lot more this year. It's already happening... they get better rates and get on more buys. But it's mostly due to the really strong 25-54, not the 35-64 which most agency buys don't consider.
 
All I have to say is kudos to WBLS for making the station #1 since it beat WLTW's "Lite-FM" out of the top spot, and WBLS is now the #1 station playing urban AC music. Remember last year, when WRKS "Kiss-FM" ended its urban format after 31 years on 98.7? They brought big numbers after "Kiss-FM's" demise. They brought some of the former "Kiss-FM" people to WBLS including Sheila, Lenny Green and a few others. This would put the station on top after leaving "Kiss-FM" last year when they flipped to "ESPN Radio" on FM. Great job, WBLS!
 
I do not understand the impasse.
Not with all the documentation and profiling done the past few decades. That second-rate citizen status is the obstacle in the way of the 'undesirable' 50+ demo being acknowledged -- while the candle is roaring away at the younger end with every passing music download.

With first Bill Drake and then Lee Abrams been famously known to have put two distinct graduating classes of Boomers under a demo microscope (in a way that publicly never happened before), one would figure that their findings at the time would mandate usage by subsequent programmers and salespeople, no? A thumbnail flip of the calculator turns up that Drake's target audience now would be ages 60-70, and that of Abrams would be approximately 55-64.

There has to be some useful sales and demo theories and wisdom about Boomers then, amid those truckloads of memos, which might apply now. And those fellows were operating in huge markets that would be prime PPM territory today. * Some * of their research about the behaviour, psychographics and buying habits of those kids of the late 60's and mid 70's would be of some use for those who wish to pursue mining the population and age shift.

Has anyone done this ? Publicly ?
 
WBLS sounds a hot mess most of the time. They are stuck in the 1970s. Many of my friends and relatives listen to the station because there no place else to turn.

Enough Bill Withers and early 1970s Jackson 5 already.
 
I enjoy WBLS when they play classic Hip Hop and R&B from the 80s... especially when its the early electro kind like IOU by Freeez. :)
 
reelyreal said:
The over 50 crowd is growing, but does that make them any easier to sell to? The resistance of agencies to the older demos is and has always been that the older a consumer gets, the more costly it becomes to influence their purchasing decisions. It's not that they can't be influenced, it's that it becomes so expensive to attempt to do so that it's not worth it.

Has that changed?
Click to expand...
IMHO it has. Being a person of a certain age I can attest to the fact that I started spending money on things I never had. Since I crossed over into the dreaded 55-to-death demo, I bought two new cars (a brand I had never owned before), a living room and family room full of furniture, two TV's, a Blu-Ray player, a Wii, a houseful of carpet, a new roof, and have a kitchen remodel on the drawing board. If you don't want my money, don't advertise to me. Someone else will and will end up getting my business.
 
That there is only one 25+ Urban station in New York (15 years after there was only one hugely successful -25 Urban station in New York) is complete madness.

Yeah, parents with kids are more likely to spend their money on fast food and soda than on nighclubs and beer.

There has to be some ground there, somewhere between when Power and, to some extent, Hot leave off and where WBLS picks up; how would you program an urban station targeting 25-45?

IMO the answer is classic hip-hop.

In any case, the numbers are too good to ignore...way better than any country or alternative or dance or whatever is the flavor of the month on this board.
 
Yeah, it's crazy. Philadelphia,Washington,DC,Norfolk and Atlanta are all working with 2 over 25 Urban ACs. Skip Dillard is going after the over 50 crowd with heavy emphasis on mid to late 1970s R&B. WBLS is a crusty old mess.
 
it is shocking. For New York not to have a least 4 urban stations is odd especially given the 25 plus numbers WBLS pulls in.
I don't see any possible openings however accept for WFAS but since it's owned by Cumulus they're not too strong with urban radio.
I see them most likely going alternative.
 
I dont see WFAS going Urban AC. Cumulus owns a boatload of Urbans in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida.

WLXC-FM-Columbia,SC...Urban AC
WWWZ-FM-Charleston,SC....Urban
WMGL-FM-Charleston,SC....Urban AC
WQVE-FM-Columbus,Ga...Urban AC
KQXL-Baton Rouge,La-Urban AC
WEMX-Baton Rouge,La-Urban
KVMA-Shreveport,La-Urban AC
KMJJ-Shreveport,La-Urban AC
 
JerseyDude said:
Skip Dillard is going after the over 50 crowd with heavy emphasis on mid to late 1970s R&B. WBLS is a crusty old mess.
Click to expand...

Not that it makes all that much a difference, but the heavy emphasis is mid-70s to mid-80s R&B.  I kind of like the funky paradise garage sound, actually. 

But that is neither here nor there, the real point is that there is this volume of music from '87 to '07 being only lightly touched.  Wasn't the 90's when Rap and R&B sold records?
 
@BrooklynDon.....I think we are listening to two different stations. Im not hearing the 1980s Paradise Garage sound that WBLS and Kiss used to play in regular rotation back in the day. Im hearing 1970s Al Green and Bill Withers. Skip Dillard has the station sounding very Lafayette,Louisiana.
 
JerseyDude said:
I dont see WFAS going Urban AC. Cumulus owns a boatload of Urbans in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida.

WLXC-FM-Columbia,SC...Urban AC
WWWZ-FM-Charleston,SC....Urban
WMGL-FM-Charleston,SC....Urban AC
WQVE-FM-Columbus,Ga...Urban AC
KQXL-Baton Rouge,La-Urban AC
WEMX-Baton Rouge,La-Urban
KVMA-Shreveport,La-Urban AC
KMJJ-Shreveport,La-Urban AC
Click to expand...


I didn't say they didn't own any stations that had an urban format. I said it wasn't their strong point. You just listed a slew of sleepy urban AC stations in smaller markets. I'm talking about something to go up against WBLS in NYC. It's doubtful Cumulus would take something like that on.
 
WBLS is a weak Urban AC. WBLS isnt what you think it is. Listeners are not loyal to this Earth, Wind and Fire/Bill Withers/1970s Jackson 5 17,500 times a day radio station.

A station that sounds just slighty more New York than WBLS would crush them. Dont let the call letters and the station's history fool you. The current WBLS is more Memphis,TN than NYC.
 
JerseyDude said:
WBLS is a weak Urban AC. WBLS isnt what you think it is. Listeners are not loyal to this Earth, Wind and Fire/Bill Withers/1970s Jackson 5 17,500 times a day radio station.

A station that sounds just slighty more New York than WBLS would crush them. Dont let the call letters and the station's history fool you. The current WBLS is more Memphis,TN than NYC.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. WBLS isn't the power house it was and was certainly better when Inner City owned although weak even back then. It does have a Memphis, TN vibe as opposed to New York City but I still think Cumulus would have no idea how to go up against it and that was my initial point.
I'm afraid we're stuck with the crap we have on the dial in NYC for the foreseeable future unless Pacifica sells WBAI.
 
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