WBNX To Convert To ATSC 3.0 On April 30

[Theater of My Mind]

So why the rush? Who will benefit? Is it the ability to encode and charge per program that they are lusting after?

Yes.

They also want to be able to prevent people from recording, an industry dream that goes all the way back to Betamax days. ATSC 3.0 provides the opportunity for them to circumvent the Supreme Court's decision in Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. which affirmed the consumer's right to record, but did not address anything about broadcasters encrypting their signals, even if that would make recording them impossible.

Finally, if all of this ends up pushing OTA viewers to other platforms such as cable or OTT providers that pay carriage fees, or DTC streaming platforms that rake in direct subscription fees, then the broadcasters and studios would gladly celebrate that. The ulterior motive seems to be making free OTA TV as unattractive as possible for that reason, and paywalling content for anyone left.

 

[Rusty Muck]

TV 5 will piggyback on 55's new 3.0 signal, so you can bet WEWS will throw open a 1.0 subchannel or 2 for WBNX in return

It's not like WEWS will have a lack of space once they finally get WVPX-WDLI into the fold (it being a post-Zimmer Radio transaction).

 

[Rusty Muck]

Yes.

They also want to be able to prevent people from recording, an industry dream that goes all the way back to Betamax days. ATSC 3.0 provides the opportunity for them to circumvent the Supreme Court's decision in Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. which affirmed the consumer's right to record, but did not address anything about broadcasters encrypting their signals, even if that would make recording them impossible.

Finally, if all of this ends up pushing OTA viewers to other platforms such as cable or OTT providers that pay carriage fees, or DTC streaming platforms that rake in direct subscription fees, then the broadcasters and studios would gladly celebrate that. The ulterior motive seems to be making free OTA TV as unattractive as possible for that reason, and paywalling content for anyone left.

There's a fundamental flaw in their plans: the lack of a hard conversion date. And even if Carr and Trusty were able to get a deadline enacted (which is a rather questionable prospect tbh), the demand for 3.0 flat-out doesn't exist to begin with. Trying to have it both ways with the 1.0 lighthouse setup is exactly the same problem radio had with HD Radio: no one is really that interested in the "channels between the channels" or other opaque gimmickry, and especially when the industry is already in a substantial decline.

What makes the technology "better" besides broadcasters becoming datacasters?

 

[Mediafrog+]

What makes the technology "better" besides broadcasters becoming datacasters?

ATSC 3.0 is a more robust digital format which is supposed to mitigate issues with dropouts and multipath. It also has more bandwidth available. But yes, there is really no demand from the public as any improvement isn’t readily apparent to most people, unlike the transition to ATSC 1.0 and high definition television.

As for datacasting, I suspect a huge percentage of the avalanche of LPTV applications we’ve seen recently are intended for some sort of data delivery, rather than “regular “ TV.

 

[KeithE4]

ATSC 3.0 is a more robust digital format which is supposed to mitigate issues with dropouts and multipath. It also has more bandwidth available. But yes, there is really no demand from the public as any improvement isn’t readily apparent to most people, unlike the transition to ATSC 1.0 and high definition television.

Is there any real data that compares the two standards for multipath? I don't have an ATSC 3.0 decoder, but my location would be a good place to compare them. I'm 25 miles ENE of South Mountain, 135 feet above an airport (Falcon Field, Mesa AZ) runway two miles away. Planes fly in and out close to 24 hours a day, and these are anywhere from single-engine private planes to LearJets. No commercial airlines here, but there is the occasional WW2-era B-17 flying around that is part of a museum located there. Any time a plane is within eyesight, ATSC 1.0 TV signals go away, both full-power and LPTV.

 

[spunker88]

Is there any real data that compares the two standards for multipath? I don't have an ATSC 3.0 decoder, but my location would be a good place to compare them. I'm 25 miles ENE of South Mountain, 135 feet above an airport (Falcon Field, Mesa AZ) runway two miles away. Planes fly in and out close to 24 hours a day, and these are anywhere from single-engine private planes to LearJets. No commercial airlines here, but there is the occasional WW2-era B-17 flying around that is part of a museum located there. Any time a plane is within eyesight, ATSC 1.0 TV signals go away, both full-power and LPTV.

Antenna Man on Youtube did a demo of ATSC 1.0 vs 3.0 reception in Pittsburgh while driving in a car, which has a similar effect as multipath. ATSC 1.0 drops out most of the time while driving, while ATSC 3.0 was stable even at highway speeds.

 

[nitroengine]

ATSC 3.0 should be a clear winner simply due to its superior multipath rejection, but they are currently impeding it with encryption and the slow rollout of including decoders in average and lower cost TV sets and set top boxes. It wouldn't take much to sell viewers on the standard if you could gurentee a reduction or elimination of dropouts each time the wind blows or a large truck drives by. That is the biggest complaint I've heard from antenna TV viewers after the transition to DTV.

I had to constantly go up to my elderly aunt and uncle's place to move and adjust their antenna and swap out DTV boxes with those of other brands in effort to combat dropouts due to multipath. They lived maybe 5 miles away from the tower farm that most of the signals transmit from, yet, each time a train would go down the tracks that was up the road from them, or strong winds would whip the trees around, they'd have problems. Back in the analog days, this would appear as ghosting of the image.

Unless there is a government mandate to force a transition to ATSC 3.0, most of the major networks will likely remain available on ATSC 1.0 for many years to come. Although, I could see them eventually be packed into a single ATSC 1.0 signal, maybe at 480i, or perhaps using MPEG4. MPEG4 which many older TV sets and DTV converter boxes cannot decode.

 

[radiofan2023]

Is there any real data that compares the two standards for multipath? I don't have an ATSC 3.0 decoder, but my location would be a good place to compare them. I'm 25 miles ENE of South Mountain, 135 feet above an airport (Falcon Field, Mesa AZ) runway two miles away. Planes fly in and out close to 24 hours a day, and these are anywhere from single-engine private planes to LearJets. No commercial airlines here, but there is the occasional WW2-era B-17 flying around that is part of a museum located there. Any time a plane is within eyesight, ATSC 1.0 TV signals go away, both full-power and LPTV.

How high up are the planes? I’ve lived in flightpath areas and never had problems with signal reception when planes flew over.

 

[KeithE4]

How high up are the planes? I’ve lived in flightpath areas and never had problems with signal reception when planes flew over.

100 to 500 feet, depending on the aircraft.

Per FAA regs and City of Mesa ordinances, all structures are limited to 20 feet above ground, although some trees are a bit higher. Not only am I restricted as a ham operator, but cell service is spotty in some parts of this neighborhood.

 

[snowdog88]

We now have more details about WBNX's transition to ATSC 3.0 and which stations are going to host their ATSC 1.0 subchannels.

WKYC, WEWS, WJW & WOIO are all going to have an ATSC 3.0 simulcast on WBNX. So that's NBC, ABC, FOX & CBS. And of course, The CW.

As for ATSC 1.0 hosts for WBNX, WJW will host 55.1 (The CW), WVPX will host 55.2 (Buzzr), WEWS will host 55.3 (Rewind TV) & 55.4 (H&I), and WKYC will host 55.5 (Start TV). In order to make them all fit, WKYC is replacing the already vacant 3.8 (Nosey) with 55.5. WEWS and WVPX will be converting their HSN and QVC subs to MPEG-4 encoding, with WVPX dropping Game Show Central to make additional room.

Sources (FCC):
WBNX multicast host exhibit (MS Word Document)
WOIO's channel plan exhibit (PDF)

 

[skiwest]

WVPX can be iffy in the Cleveland area. But if they are only hosting Buzzr, Ii's no big deal for me as I don't watch it.

 

[snowdog88]

WVPX can be iffy in the Cleveland area. But if they are only hosting Buzzr, Ii's no big deal for me as I don't watch it.

Buzzr can be seen on multiple streaming platforms, and I rather watch it there as their OTA distribution is garbage. (Stuttering screen tearing video on many programs).

At least it wasn't H&I, Start or Rewind TV that ended up on WVPX, though WVPX likely wouldn't have been an option if WBNX dropped Buzzr or H&I at the end of last year and deactivated a sub.

 

[Santa fe]

It has been posted that a new crawl on 55-1 says the changeover is now set for May 25th.

 

[bigdonho]

Sort of feels like these TV stations are making the same mistake that FM operators made with HD. "Oh boy, HD will give us more channels" just as radio was being hit with a decline in listenership and advertising revenue because there were more media going after the same advertising revenue pie. Let's face it, most people can't tell if they are listening to the analog signal or the HD signal. If the average viewer perceives no value in ATSC 3, will it really take off? It seems to be a case of "Why does a dog lick himself there?...Because he can."

 

[Santa fe]

As expressed earlier in this thread by another poster, it seems to be about DRM, digital rights management, the ability on 3.0 to encrypt programs to prevent home recording and put content behind pay walls and eliminate free over the air TV, further eroding the 1934 concept that the airwaves belong to the public.

 

[nitroengine]

We're also less than 20 years since the forced switchover from analog to DTV that required viewers to get a new TV or converter box. "Really!? We're doing this again?" The government subsidized the purchase of those conveter boxes by offering $40 coupons to households. I don't see that happening with ATSC 3.0.

I've been seeing the Nextgen commercials on TV. They are pushing 4k, better sound quality and ***free sports!***. When they should be focusing on improved multipath and less dropouts. The very dropout prone performance of ATSC 1.0 has been a thorn in the side for antenna TV viewers since its rollout. If they start selling ASTC 3.0 as the solution for all those annoying glitches and "no signal" messages, I could see people seeking out ATSC 3.0 TVs and boxes. Drop the emphasis on 4k, most channels are not going to be broadcasting in 4k anytime soon, if ever. Many ATSC 1.0 stations are currently using 720p on their main program.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

I've been seeing the Nextgen commercials on TV. They are pushing 4k, better sound quality and ***free sports!***.

What free sports, lol? Anything worth watching OTA is already on ATSC 1.0. Besides, sports will be the first thing to get DRM'ed and locked behind ATSC 3.0 paywalls.

 

[IM42A]

We're also less than 20 years since the forced switchover from analog to DTV that required viewers to get a new TV or converter box. "Really!? We're doing this again?" The government subsidized the purchase of those conveter boxes by offering $40 coupons to households. I don't see that happening with ATSC 3.0.

I've been seeing the Nextgen commercials on TV. They are pushing 4k, better sound quality and ***free sports!***. When they should be focusing on improved multipath and less dropouts. The very dropout prone performance of ATSC 1.0 has been a thorn in the side for antenna TV viewers since its rollout. If they start selling ASTC 3.0 as the solution for all those annoying glitches and "no signal" messages, I could see people seeking out ATSC 3.0 TVs and boxes. Drop the emphasis on 4k, most channels are not going to be broadcasting in 4k anytime soon, if ever. Many ATSC 1.0 stations are currently using 720p on their main program.

One thing to consider, too, is that the ATSC 1.0 boxes converted digital to analog, and many (probably most) CRT TVs could not accommodate a 16:9 picture, so you ended up with an analog signal (albeit a very clear one) with either letterboxing, zooming, stretching, or squeezing (the latter two looked awful). Viewers wouldn't work at that kind of disadvantage this time around.

Don't know how much of an issue this would be in general, but when 1.0 came out, I enjoyed watching TV on a small portable while a passenger. I immediately noticed "hey, this doesn't work", with analog, the picture might be choppy now and then, but it was generally watchable. You had to be in a very, very strong signal issue to be able to watch anything on 1.0 while moving. Shortly after the 2009 transition, I was riding in a car on I-77 at Fancy Gap VA, which has probably a 30-40 mile view to the east, and WFMY Greensboro was coming in totally unbroken. That was one strong signal. Supposedly 3.0 doesn't present this problem, at least not as much as 1.0 does.