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WBT's signal

M

Mike Walker

Guest
Has anybody noticed that WBT's signal is a shadow of what it was twenty to thirty years ago? I'm talking about their daytime signal.

Back in the mid 70s, it was a STRONG signal on the car radio here in Wilkes County. Today it's still audible, but FAR weaker...not something most would listen to.

And before you start blaming my equipment, I'm talking about a Drake SW-8 communications receiver with 200' long wire, a C Crane CC Radio with Terk "AM Advantage" antenna, and a new Eton E5. All of the above can pick it up with relative ease, but move to something like a clock radio, or an old Zenith I've had since I was a kid (re-tubed and tweaked), and WBT is just, well LAME.

680, WPTF in Raleigh, which should be a MUCH harder catch (and used to be) here in Wilkes, is as strong as ever (as are other "big signal" stations. I can still get 1170 WRVA in Richmond...a tough daytime catch, but no tougher than in, say, 1975. Man am I ever dating myself!

So the question is, WHAT HAPPENED? Any theories on why WBT's signal is so wimpy? It really doesn't sound substantially stronger here than the AM gospel on 930 that once upon a time was WSOC AM (or 610, once "61 Big WAYS")

Mike Walker
(The Old Timer)
 
Could be the gradual decline in the ground screen. I have seen this with many AMs. Could be things were never quite right after the hurricane damage. I even suspect some things not being as they once were with the band itself. I have noticed this with the ham bands. Nothing with the 11 year cycle, just things are different overall.
 
The fact that they use a Kahn Power-Side, which effectively kills one sideband on their signal, may have something to do with it. Those units are touted as being great for putting a solid signal within the groundwave coverage area of a station, but I have not seen any data on what effect, if any, they have on skywave coverage.

Another possibility has to do with the physics of the ground-plane antenna such as WBT uses (with the buried radials and such). There is a point at a predictable distance from the transmission point where ground wave and sky wave cancel each other out. Perhaps the post-Hugo repairs to the WBT antenna system moved that cancellation point closer to you.

I don't know if either would actually be your situation, but perhaps others might be able to help you understand it more.

Later....
Matt Smith
WGSR-TV
 
Mike,

You are right about the perceived decline in WBT's coverage. I'm a big talk radio fan, so I listen to WBT regularly. The signal seems to have dropped dramatically in the Salisbury area in the past several years alone. I DO notice an increase in local noise, tho, as it masks some of the weaker stations in the mornings. I'd be surprised if the ground system is in disrepair at the station. A more likely suspect is reradiation from a cell tower, new power line, or some other structure they aren't aware of. WBT was Jefferson Pilot's flagship, and one of their most productive cash cows. Whatever WBT wanted, they got. It will be interesting to see if Lincoln Financial continues in that tradition...
 
Matt...

Just spoke with one of the engineers at WBT...He confirmed what I thought...All of the Kahn gear has long been taken out of service.

t123
 
test123 said:
Matt...

Just spoke with one of the engineers at WBT...He confirmed what I thought...All of the Kahn gear has long been taken out of service.

t123
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that even the best of AM receivers today aren't as good as those commonly found in cars back in the early 1970s. Those receivers were more broadbanded and would make a less than primary AM signal sound better. You have many more power lines today than you did just 10 years ago in the fast growing areas of North Carolina. The load on the existing power lines is much heavier.

Also, there is a natural decline in ground conductivity. The water table drops and with it conductivity not to mention a lot of top soil has been removed on construction projects and it's felt that top soil is a better conductor of AM signals. Also, I believe that lower conductivity has more of an impact on higher frequencies than lower frequencies such as 930 and 610. Makes sense. The lower channels don't have as long a wavelength to go in the ground and be shorted by bad soil as the higher frequencies do. It's my understanding the higher channels dig deeper in the ground since the wave is longer and thus gets affected more so than the shorter low frequencies.
 
Art,

The lower frequency signals are longer in terms of wavelength, higher frequencies are shorter. That's why a low end channel usually dictates a much taller tower than a higher frequency channel (for a quarter wave radiator). Ground conductivity as you know also varies dramatically with season. Fall- winter- early spring are highest conductivity, while late spring- summer- early fall are much lower. WBT's signal is beginning to improve some up my way due to increasing conductivity, but it's nowhere near what it was several years ago, using the same reference receiver here at home.
 
Art, I'm well aware of the decline in the quality of MOST AM radios today. Which is why I went to some length to point out that I am not using "typical" equipment...a 1950s Zenith in mint condition (new tubes, tweaked) that I LISTENED TO in decades past to make the comparison. Also table radios dating back to the 70s and 80s which in those days pulled in WBT like gangbusters at my house, and now on the same table, in the same location can barely get it. I also mentioned three recent AM radios fully competitive with anything from "back in the day"...the CC Radio Plus, with Terk AM Advantage loop, a Drake SW-8 with 200 foot outdoor longwire, and an Eton E5 (naked and unashamed...it's a hot rod as it sits).

Again, I'm comparing WBT to other distant AM stations which came in clearly at my location in decades past, and still do. WBT has definitely declined in comparison. Again, I was careful to point out that I am comparing apples to apples, NOT just cruddy modern radios with great ones from the past.

And by the way...I'll put a Drake SW-8 with a 200 foot longwire through my electrically quiet back yard up against any car radio I've ever heard, including the old tube radio in my grandfather's '62 Ford Galaxie!

Peace!
 
I lived for many years about 65 miles SE of Charlotte. Back in the 70s, 61 Big Ways came in down there for all purposes like a local in the daytime and WBT had a very listenable signal as well, though not quite as strong as Big WAYS. Fast forward to the late 80s, and both stations had all but disappeared down there. WBT flat did not have a listenable signal daytimes and at night had completely disappeared--I mean complete silence on 1110 other than the usual AM electrical interference. For a few months after Hurricane Hugo that changed. WBT was again clearly recievable, day and night. But after transmitter repairs were complete there was again silence on 1110. Now I live 17 miles south of uptown Charlotte, in one of the fastest growing areas in the region, and there is really only one listenable AM signal---WBT. 610 and 930 are full of hiss, hums and pops. I'll add thats with several pretty good radios, including the GE Superadio and the Bose Wave.
 
This is my first post in your forum. Let me congratulate and show my appreciation for your civility, experience, and professionalism (check out Indy and Cincy and you WON’T find the same). Having spent a wonderful year in Charlotte (back in ’99-’00) in MCSE school (adoring the former “Magic 96”), and traveling frequently to and thru your area (I love to canoe the French Broad and listen to 680AM) – your “local radio” has always captivated my attention and complete respect. In fact, as the commentary swirls on “local broadcasting” (or a neglect in such) – YOUR AREA, in part BECAUSE of the likes of extemporary operators such as Mr. Sutton has become a “dependable post to hang one’s hat upon” in an industry that seems to be “losing historical values”.

On to WBT (and AM “reception”) - I have noticed the same – in fact, I’ve observed it in other areas of the country as well – this ISN’T just a WBT problem. I’ve been into AM DX (day and night) for many years, and have seen a steady decline – could it be the RF version of “Global Warming” – LOL... Or “construction and earth moving” in close proximity to their TX sites? Behemoths such as WSM, WGN, and WLW; along with even old C-3’s such as WNDE 1260 Indianapolis, WHIO 1290 Dayton, and WSAI 1360 Cincinnati suffer from the effects you mention. All are subject to “urban sprawl” – as is WBT’s site off Nation’s Ford & I-77.

My parents have retired and built a home on Fripp Island in S.C. I have traveled down I-26 frequently in my (now auxiliary 1992 GMC Jimmy) with its narrowband – but sensitive Delco receiver. Over those years, I have noticed a decline in what was once a “brute force” WBT signal from Asheville to Columbia. At night, WBT is no longer a dependable service on the lower S.C. coast... But I have noticed the same with many other “once-dominate” AM signals.

Any folks out there with a technical tilt want to help us poor little “listener types” out on this? THANKS!

LOCAL RADIO LIVES! :)
 
deleted...sorry for the goof!... READ ON :)
 
OH... The WBT TX is off ARROWOOD (not Nations Ford--same area)... I got lost there once back in the fall of '99 and found that three-tower DA... I always got mixed up--as I did most streets in "Charlotte's Web"... LOL! One more question? What has become of that "funky" little 1kw AM Oldies station up near Lake Norman on 1350? I heard some wonderful "non-corporate-compliant" offerings from the past on that little station. Is it still there?
 
Re: WBT-FM 99.3

Julius May said:
Has anyone tried listening to WBT-FM 99.3 if you can't get 1110 A<: http://www.wbt.com/programming/993fm.cfm . I would contact WBT about this: http://www.wbt.com/programming/contact.cfm
Click to expand...

Since I used to own a station on 99.3, I seem to tune that freq whenever I’m in a “new” area. I found WBT-FM there in ’99, but at Tyvola & I-77 – it was hardly a “stop on scan” signal – nor was it “clock radio” in Uptown. I often travel along I-26, and “it’s there – but not clearly” around Clinton and Newberry, SC. WBT has a very nasty null at night to the west/southwest going way back to when they “sold off” night coverage (in part to allow KFAB - 1110 in Omaha to have service after sunset). J-P bought and simulcast the low-power Class A Chester FM to the southwest to merely augment their diminished night service in the Charlotte TSA in that direction only. It can’t be counted on to extend WBT’s AM coverage in every direction around the Queen City.
 
Re: WBT-FM 99.3

hipporadio said:
Julius May said:
Has anyone tried listening to WBT-FM 99.3 if you can't get 1110 A<: http://www.wbt.com/programming/993fm.cfm . I would contact WBT about this: http://www.wbt.com/programming/contact.cfm
Click to expand...

Since I used to own a station on 99.3, I seem to tune that freq whenever I’m in a “new” area. I found WBT-FM there in ’99, but at Tyvola & I-77 – it was hardly a “stop on scan” signal – nor was it “clock radio” in Uptown. I often travel along I-26, and “it’s there – but not clearly” around Clinton and Newberry, SC. WBT has a very nasty null at night to the west/southwest going way back to when they “sold off” night coverage (in part to allow KFAB - 1110 in Omaha to have service after sunset). J-P bought and simulcast the low-power Class A Chester FM to the southwest to merely augment their diminished night service in the Charlotte TSA in that direction only. It can’t be counted on to extend WBT’s AM coverage in every direction around the Queen City.
Click to expand...

Before the FCC shuffle of AM frequencies in 1941, WBT operated on 1080. I'm not aware of them selling off their nighttime. They were a Class B Clear Channel station which meant, unlike the A's, there was another 50KW nighttime AM on their channel and they had to be directional. I never understood why they built a site south of Charlotte. You would have thought they would have built west of Charlotte so the main lobe was over the city. I think KFAB was also on 1080 so they still had the same null to the west.

The only Class B Clear Channel I am aware which did not have to be directional is WGY in New York on 810. In our part of the world, WSB, WSM, WHAS, KMOX...they were Class A Clear Channels which meant they were omni directional and the only station on the air at night in the continental US.Now their .5 mvm skywave signal must be protected.

WWL and WBZ were Class A Clears which chose to be directional to avoid sending half their signal over the ocean.

WPTF in Raleigh is 50KW at night but they were not a Class B or A clear channel like the 680 station on the west coast in San Francisco. It is a Class A on 680 but is so far away that WPTF could get 50KW with just two towers. So, unlike the Class B Clears like WBT and the Class A clears like WSB, WPTF's skywave contour is not protected but instead their nighttime groundwave interference free is protected. It's pretty low like 2 mvm so it's tough for any other station to send much power toward WPTF without raising their nighttime limit. For instance, our 680 in Sylva, NC has a nighttime interference free contour of almost 30 mvm and we can only send about 15 watts toward WPTF. We have 250 watts with two towers and the most severe null toward Raleigh. The signal doesn't go clearly half a mile toward WPTF.

Most AMs, except the old class 4s have interference free contours of any where from 8 to 15 mvm so 30 is really high and 2 mvm is really low. The old class 4s usually have a IF contour of about 25 to 40 mvm at night.
 
Thanks, Art, for your interesting and informative explaination. What I don't understand is why WBT-AM nulls its signal to the east, day and night. I would not be surprised if the 1110 signal doesn't encounter some serious difficulty over fast growing Union Co,--if not now, in the future. Is there any reason why WBT-AM never built their transmitter (at least the nightime TX) further to the west, say west of Gastonia, and then threw the full 50kw to the east? Wouldn't that provide a strong signal to Mecklenburg and Union, as well as most of Gaston which is one of the most populated counties in the metro? Several of the 50kw AMs in New York and Chicago have their TX out further than that from the center cities, so it seems doable.
 
Art, nice to see an owner who knows their stuff. Thanks for the info.

Fort Mill, I don't know any reason why WBT would have a null to the east. The signal in Monroe sounds strong to me. At night there is a point where the skywave and ground wave cancel each other.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it so I guess I will. For a time WBT had a night time site in Shelby where they operated a 1kw synchronous transmitteron 1110. The timing was critical and I don't know how much it helped. I heard they turned it off one day and didn't receive any calls. I belive this was done a long time ago.

In South Florida this same thing was done with a station on 1230 and it seemed to work very well except for a small area between the two transmitter sites where the two signals overlapped.
 
Re: the reason WBT built south instead of west...

After crowding around it's downton location, a decision was made that the new transmitting site should be out in the boonies where the cheap land is. At that point, the center of Charlotte was more or less somewhat east of what would be considered the population center today. Through the years, JP patted themselves for the forward thinking as white collar population grew to the south while Gastonia remained a lower income blue collar town.

As times changed, development grew up all around the Pineville site, and through the 90's there were many times I would get a call when I was on board that some felon was on the run and climbing oour tower as a way to get away from the cops. Not your super smart Ocean's 11 type of criminals. The standard procedure for a man on the tower was supposed to be to lower the power. The CE at the time always said not to that.
 
I have had trouble with WBT at night for years, though things improved somewhat in recent years. I haven't actually listened to AM after dark since I discovered this site, but I should try it.

I used to pick up what was WWWE and KMOX St. Louis better than WBT.

Responding to the comments about WPTF: I have picked up that station in Lake Junaluska at night, and that's not too far from Sylva.
 
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