WBZ's Signal towards the East...

[DrSquelchcrash]

According to this nifty chart, down the webpage towards the right, WBZ's signal seems really attenuated towards the east.
http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine...abSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=10513&sHours=U

I know BZ has nulled the east for years, but according to the above website, the null seems really quite deep towards the east.

My question for the engineers here is: What is the actual ERP towards the eastern direction from WBZ? Is it really really low, or just low, or not really low at all? (I'm not an engineer)

One time, when I was passing through Hull, I remember listening to WBZ while heading North into town, and at the easternmost null, I remember hearing the signal going through that phasing shifting pattern at the due east position of the WBZ tower. It was quite noticeable. That signal dip can be heard if you're at the Nantasket Samoset split in Hull:
http://local.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&q=hull,+mA&ll=42.278785,-70.870571&spn=0.004826,0.016651&t=h

Thanks for any info. This was just something I have always wondered about.

73
DrSquelchcrash







<P ID="signature">______________
All day, All Night, No Reason!</P>

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Not an engineer and don't know any numbers, but WBZ is listenable, though weak, out on Cape Cod. They don't need to send any more signal due east into the ocean than that.


> According to this nifty chart, down the webpage towards the
> right, WBZ's signal seems really attenuated towards the
> east.
http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurr> entService=AM&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=10513&sHours=U
>
>
> I know BZ has nulled the east for years, but according to
> the above website, the null seems really quite deep towards
> the east.
>
> My question for the engineers here is: What is the actual
> ERP towards the eastern direction from WBZ? Is it really
> really low, or just low, or not really low at all? (I'm not
> an engineer)
>
> One time, when I was passing through Hull, I remember
> listening to WBZ while heading North into town, and at the
> easternmost null, I remember hearing the signal going
> through that phasing shifting pattern at the due east
> position of the WBZ tower. It was quite noticeable. That
> signal dip can be heard if you're at the Nantasket Samoset
> split in Hull:
http://local.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&> q=hull,+mA&ll=42.278785,-70.870571&spn=0.004826,0.016651&t=h
>
>
> Thanks for any info. This was just something I have always
> wondered about.
>
> 73
> DrSquelchcrash
>

 

[DanStrassberg]

> I know BZ has nulled the east for years, but according to
> the above website, the null seems really quite deep towards
> the east.
>
> My question for the engineers here is: What is the actual
> ERP towards the eastern direction from WBZ? Is it really
> really low, or just low, or not really low at all? (I'm not
> an engineer)
>
WBZ has had essentially the same pattern since it moved to Hull in 1939. The tower spacing was designed for the frequency on which WBZ operated at the time: 990. In March 1941, NARBA (the North American Regional Broadcast Agreement) rejuggled the AM frequency assignments throughout the continent. Like most AMs above 720 kc (kc would not be renaned kHz for another 25 years), WBZ had to move up in frequency; it was assigned to 1030. The slight frequency change necessitated a slight adjustment of the pattern. On 990, WBZ had a theoretically perfect minimum to the east. And since nobody but fish lives due east of the Hull site, there was no need to adjust the pattern to provide null fill-in, which is the way that stations reduce the phasing that you referred to in your post. The standard pattern on 1030 shows a deep minimum to the east, but, even theoretically, it is not a perfect null; it's the equivalent of about 730W given the high efficiency of WBZ's better-than-half-wave towers. With 1/4-wavelength towers, the same field strength would be equivalent to a little more than 1 kW.

Under current rules, WBZ can't increase its signal to the south by a whole lot. There is a 1030 station in Puerto Rico and WBZ--even though it was on 1030 first--would not be allowed to increase radiation very much in the direction of that station.

 

[Mickey37]

Dan, thank you for the info. I did not know much of the detail.
I travel to the Cape each weekend, and as soon as I cross either of the bridges, WBZ's signal plummets. It's distressing, but there's a silver lining: WINS and WCBS come in quite strong, practically like local stations.

> Not an engineer and don't know any numbers, but WBZ is
> listenable, though weak, out on Cape Cod. They don't need to
> send any more signal due east into the ocean than that.
>
>
> > According to this nifty chart, down the webpage towards
> the
> > right, WBZ's signal seems really attenuated towards the
> > east.
> http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurr>
> entService=AM&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=10513&sHours=U
>
> >
> >
> > I know BZ has nulled the east for years, but according to
> > the above website, the null seems really quite deep
> towards
> > the east.
> >
> > My question for the engineers here is: What is the actual
> > ERP towards the eastern direction from WBZ? Is it really
> > really low, or just low, or not really low at all? (I'm
> not
> > an engineer)
> >
> > One time, when I was passing through Hull, I remember
> > listening to WBZ while heading North into town, and at the
>
> > easternmost null, I remember hearing the signal going
> > through that phasing shifting pattern at the due east
> > position of the WBZ tower. It was quite noticeable. That
> > signal dip can be heard if you're at the Nantasket Samoset
>
> > split in Hull:
> http://local.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&>
> q=hull,+mA&ll=42.278785,-70.870571&spn=0.004826,0.016651&t=h
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks for any info. This was just something I have always
>
> > wondered about.
> >
> > 73
> > DrSquelchcrash
> >
>

 

[webcastboy]

> Dan, thank you for the info. I did not know much of the
> detail.
> I travel to the Cape each weekend, and as soon as I cross
> either of the bridges, WBZ's signal plummets. It's
> distressing, but there's a silver lining: WINS and WCBS
> come in quite strong, practically like local stations.
>

The magic of saltwater's high electrical conductivity and the nature of groundwave propagation! My uncle told me he used to listen to WBZ while vacationing in Bermuda.

Similarly, I personally have listened to WBUR's 1240AM signal during the day while out on my dad's sailboat off the coast of Mystic, CT. It's weak but hear-able. The signal disappears the moment you start going up Mystic River, though, and you can't really get it on land unless you're parked on Ender's Island/pennisula.

Dan, you mentioned WBZ doesn't put out much to the south...but does it really *need* to? Due south of Hull is just the south shore and next stop Venezuela, eh?

 

[DanStrassberg]

>
> Dan, you mentioned WBZ doesn't put out much to the
> south...but does it really *need* to? Due south of Hull is
> just the south shore and next stop Venezuela, eh?
>
>
No, that's not what I said. I said that WBZ could not increase its signal to the south very much because of a co-channel station in Puerto Rico. Under the FCC rules now in effect, an increase in signal that would increase interference to that station would not be permitted.

WBZ's signal on the South Shore is not as great as I imagine the station might like it, but indeed there is nothing to the south of the South Shore for thousands of miles.

The pattern is very close to an ideal cardioid. With two towers a tad more than 1/4 wave apart and very nearly equal powers in the two towers that's what you get. Adjusting the power ratio and the phase difference between the towers could somewhat alter the shape of the pattern but not a whole lot, and it seems unlikely that any change would be an improvement.

 

[webcastboy]

> >
> > Dan, you mentioned WBZ doesn't put out much to the
> > south...but does it really *need* to? Due south of Hull
> is
> > just the south shore and next stop Venezuela, eh?
> >
> >
> No, that's not what I said. I said that WBZ could not
> increase its signal to the south very much because of a
> co-channel station in Puerto Rico. Under the FCC rules now
> in effect, an increase in signal that would increase
> interference to that station would not be permitted.
>

Whoops - Mea culpa! I checked and realized that I totally mis-read what you said.

Methinks with all the fiddling with IBOC these days that WBZ has bigger fish to fry than trying to get a small improvement on their pattern via a huge fight with the Hull zoning board, eh?

FWIW, I remember driving down to NYC last winter, right after Brudnoy passed away, and trying to listen to the rememberance on WBZ but the signal I was getting south of Hartford was garbage. Maybe I was in a null and didn't realize it?

 

[Eli Polonsky]

> FWIW, I remember driving down to NYC last winter, right
> after Brudnoy passed away, and trying to listen to the
> rememberance on WBZ but the signal I was getting south of
> Hartford was garbage. Maybe I was in a null and didn't
> realize it?

Probably just poor weather conditions, and I don't know if 1010 or 1050 from NYC were/are broadcasting in IBOC, but that could also affect it.

 

[HHH]

> > FWIW, I remember driving down to NYC last winter, right
> > after Brudnoy passed away, and trying to listen to the
> > rememberance on WBZ but the signal I was getting south of
> > Hartford was garbage. Maybe I was in a null and didn't
> > realize it?
>
> Probably just poor weather conditions, and I don't know if
> 1010 or 1050 from NYC were/are broadcasting in IBOC, but
> that could also affect it.
>


I am not really sure how the 'BZ signal fares over Cape Cod these days. I recall that areas were spotty, but listenable. The biggest challenge I seem to remember was from mid-cape to Chatham. They seemed to pick up as you drove up the arm to Provincetown (even though it is in the null, it is 100% salt water straight shot to Hull). Plus, I don't know how reception is out on the Vinyard and way out on Nantucket (Nantucket, by virtue of its location in terms of distance and the relationship to the directional pattern, would seem to be WBZ's most challenging spot). Any readers on Nantucket, or who visit down there?

 

[BRNout]

> Dan, you mentioned WBZ doesn't put out much to the
> south...but does it really *need* to? Due south of Hull is
> just the south shore and next stop Venezuela, eh?
>
>
A little geography lesson from a guy who is currently sitting in Venezuela waiting for the flight (due north) to Boston. There's one big piece of land between here and Boston and it's called Puerto Rico. It's also due south of Boston (and where I must change planes)!

As the MW station in San Juan on 1030 was mentioned above and below, I felt that this needed to be pointed out. If I'm not mistaken, I think that this is the English speaking station on the island....