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WCBS-FM has Problems with their Music Format Playlist
- Thread starter xmradiopro
- Start date
When will I hear Debbie Boone - You Light Up My Life? Hopefully the answer to that question is....NEVER!!
T
Those RRRRs
Guest
The original poster mentioned Paul Anka's 1973 hit called "Having My Baby." Most people don't realize or remember the political ramifications of that song.
It was released right after abortion was legalized, and Paul is basically saying that he wouldn't ask any woman to go through the hell of bringing a child into this terrible world and that because childbirth is so painful that it somehow is anti-feminism.
What a whacko.
PAUL: Didn't have to keep it
Wouldn't put ya through it
You could have swept it from you life
But you wouldn't do it, no, you wouldn't do it
It was released right after abortion was legalized, and Paul is basically saying that he wouldn't ask any woman to go through the hell of bringing a child into this terrible world and that because childbirth is so painful that it somehow is anti-feminism.
What a whacko.
PAUL: Didn't have to keep it
Wouldn't put ya through it
You could have swept it from you life
But you wouldn't do it, no, you wouldn't do it
There is only one way to really have "oldies" "classic hits" "true oldies" "station is to take the WABC survey from the 60's and 70's and play their top 40 from week to week. That was a survey from New Yorkers and should be played back to New Yorkers today. WCBS play a classic hits station which is different than this survey good for them. Their are people that want to listen to this but this playlist has it's own edge to it.
WPLJ should switch to this format of top 40 WABC 60's and 70's Of course it should be call WABC-FM . Their is room for this station in New York.
WPLJ should switch to this format of top 40 WABC 60's and 70's Of course it should be call WABC-FM . Their is room for this station in New York.
DavidEduardo said:MusicRadioUSA said:Ok here we go....
Songs that are popular hits from the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s not heard on WCBS-FM...For example.....
Blondie- Dreaming 1980
Barbra Streisand- Guilty 1980
Comin' In and out of your Life- 1981
Cliff Richard- A Little in Love - 1981
Dreaming 1980
Herman's Hermits Listen People 1966
5th Dimension Never My love 1971
If I can reach you 1972
George Harrison Crackenbox Palace 1977
Give Me Love 1973
:
I can guarantee you that none of those songs tests today. "Tests" in this context means that a panel of CBS-FM listeners, upon hearing those songs, said that they would not like or would tune out when those songs were played. In other words, they are not hits today.
Question for David E:
I had a discussion with a PD where I used to work about song that "test" well vs. programming sense. Here is my question to you:
IF:
1. The prime goal of a radio station (as a business) is to make money by providing advertisers with an audience that has and will spend a good amount of disposable income...
2. ...and the idea is to program to that large group of listeners who work and make that spending money...
3... and these "tests" take a certain amount of hours out of a day from people who are somehow not busy enought to take part in a long survey -- deducing that these people likely are not working or they don't have salaried-enough work that needs them to the point where they couldn't participate in such a long session...
4. ...thereby leading a thinking PD to believe that this "group" that determines what "tests well" is not a very likely sample of the demographics, psychographics AND invome levels they are looking for...
They WHY should these same people be relied uipon to determine the playlists of radio stations?
The "lowest common denominator" mihgt work well when selling minor products like Budweiser, but the advertisers who want a higher-income level of loyal listener may learn that this kind of program dictation would be irrelevant for the most part.
Case in point: A big company-owned radio station plays an AC format, yet has "Wonderful World" by Louie Armstrong in its regular rotation -- because it "tests well." (It does, however, sound funny when coming after Kelly Clarkson).
Just a question. You seem like the guy to ask, David.
Thanks
B
BACKnUSSR
Guest
adma said:
That too would be bad for ratings.
See any Communist talk shows at #1 ??
B
BACKnUSSR
Guest
Those RRRRs said:
There was that, but the REAL objection from feminist groups at the time was the phrase "Having MY Baby".
Anka has said many times that he was criticized for not saying "our" or "her" but that "my" was word that sounded best on that note.
Lando Griffin said:
Ratings driven advertising buys are primarily based on a couple of factors which are age and gender (based on a product's highest usage groups) and station rank and cost of delivering each listener (CPP, CPM, etc). Since the US has very few people who are not consumers of most of the things advertised on radio, income data is really a secondary concern as nearly every station delivers some upper income listeners.
Very few stations design formats to specifically appeal to upper income households or persons. We design stations to get as high in rank in sales demographics as possible.
Including driving to and from, most take about 3 hours total. For this, participants, depending on where they are, may get as much as $150. That is a nice extra spiff that many will see as, "now I can replace the broken blender" or " I can take the family to dinner this weekend" or somesuch use.
Almost all music tests are done in the evening, after most conventional workdays have ended. Or they are done on weekends. They fit into most people's schedules quite easily, and, as I said, provide excellent compensation. Sessions usually include snacks or a buffet, too.
A recruit for a music test for an existing station is almost always based on a cross section of users, mostly P1 and P2, who listen enough hours to know the music well. If there is a direct or flanking competitor, some of those listners may come in. Recruiting achieves a balance in gender and age that reflect the composition of the core audience for the station.
Things like income, if the recruit is random, will be self-balancing. You will usually get a cross section that represents the community.
Properly recruited, a music test will very closely parallel Arbitron respondents.
I do about 100 tests a year, and overall I have found that unemployed seldom get recruited. First, the US is near an historical low in unemployment, so there are not many. Second, we find when we do background data questions, that most work, and those that do not are women who by choice work at home taking care of a family or they are students. It pretty much matches the composition of the workforce, too, on white and blue collar jobs.
Almost every listener has three or so favorite staitons they use regularly by personal choice (not ones they have to listen to at work, for example). So there will be songs that will test that don't belong on your station... most of us know not to test songs we would never play based on stationality. Some PDs are not that bright, or think this sort of idiocy adds variety. It's not good programming, in my opinion.
Those are great questions and observations. Thanks for making the post.
I'm no expert on what tests well, but I do think WCBS-FM already plays a number of songs that are too slow.
That said, I am still very satisfied with the music mix and overall sound of WCBS-FM. They continually cycle songs in and out which helps to keep things fresh, and every once in a while they will throw in an "oh wow" song. Easily the best station in NYC.
That said, I am still very satisfied with the music mix and overall sound of WCBS-FM. They continually cycle songs in and out which helps to keep things fresh, and every once in a while they will throw in an "oh wow" song. Easily the best station in NYC.
CBS-FM sounds pretty good to me? A lot of the songs suggested on this thread are incredibly cheesy....Can't believe they are even being mentioned?
There's a station out of San Antonio that not only has a "fantastic" (relatively cheese-less) playlist, but is at or near the top ratings wise. Take a look at their website...they publish their playlist and they stream.....CBS-FM could take a few clues!
KONO1011.com.
There's a station out of San Antonio that not only has a "fantastic" (relatively cheese-less) playlist, but is at or near the top ratings wise. Take a look at their website...they publish their playlist and they stream.....CBS-FM could take a few clues!
KONO1011.com.
A
adma
Guest
BACKnUSSR said:
By commercial talk radio standards, anything from the Upper West Side to the Lower East Side is "Communist".
In which case, re "Ever think you might be the ONLY person on your block that wants to hear them?", maybe let's suppose you live on a UWS/LES block, so I can reverse the question and ask you, yourself: "ever think you might be the ONLY person on your block that's still an avid follower and enthusiast and defender of terrestrial radio, to the point of sneering at 13th Floor Elevators fans as being akin to weirdo Communists?" You just might find yourself as incongruous as a suburban McMansion on a street full of brownstones and gentrified ex-tenements...
G
Groove1670
Guest
This is an interesting post. Most of the songs listed are ones that will trigger the push button on several radios YIKES!!!
Paul Anka, Hazy shade of winter, Wany Ads, will do it (push the buttons).
Were an American Band, Call On Me...will not.
I think as radio and music people, we tend to get caught up in our tastes and what we remember. Not what the listener goes for. Several of the songs listed are "yeah I remember that one" But there is not a memorable or "feel good connection"
I heard on Station in my listening area play "My Hometown" "Brand New Key" "Sunday Bloody Sunday" "I wish It Would rain down' 'Runaway' and other forgettable songs. I was with a group of people who made the comment this is a really bad station. When I switched over to the station I am going to describe bellow the mood changed, everyone sang, and people talked about the songs and artists.
I know a certain big group of "Classic hits, Better Variety" stations that has about 435 songs in rotation. They specialize in 70's and 80's. I think the "Burn out factor has set in and now place in the rotation you will hear "Respect" "Pretty Woman" and certain songs from the sixties. One of the more unusual choices is Get the party started by Pink ( I Guess it tested well), and you hear three country songs 'This Kiss" "Man I Feel Like A woman" , "Live like you were Dying" They overdue the core artists a bit "bee Gees Chicago, etc. But, It is a very enjoyable station.
In a nutshell...Testing works
Paul Anka, Hazy shade of winter, Wany Ads, will do it (push the buttons).
Were an American Band, Call On Me...will not.
I think as radio and music people, we tend to get caught up in our tastes and what we remember. Not what the listener goes for. Several of the songs listed are "yeah I remember that one" But there is not a memorable or "feel good connection"
I heard on Station in my listening area play "My Hometown" "Brand New Key" "Sunday Bloody Sunday" "I wish It Would rain down' 'Runaway' and other forgettable songs. I was with a group of people who made the comment this is a really bad station. When I switched over to the station I am going to describe bellow the mood changed, everyone sang, and people talked about the songs and artists.
I know a certain big group of "Classic hits, Better Variety" stations that has about 435 songs in rotation. They specialize in 70's and 80's. I think the "Burn out factor has set in and now place in the rotation you will hear "Respect" "Pretty Woman" and certain songs from the sixties. One of the more unusual choices is Get the party started by Pink ( I Guess it tested well), and you hear three country songs 'This Kiss" "Man I Feel Like A woman" , "Live like you were Dying" They overdue the core artists a bit "bee Gees Chicago, etc. But, It is a very enjoyable station.
In a nutshell...Testing works
I guess I'd have to say to one poster that: you don't "change the method" of testing. If you were to take a class in statistical analysis, you'd learn, you could test 100 people...or 10,000. And, if the test were done correctly, your results would be, approximately, the same. "Changing the method" would likely skew your results and give you a bad (incorrect) test.
As to the idea of "playing back the old WABC lists", you're forgetting one thing: what percentage of the population of The New York Metro are "transient" or "relocated" residents? (i.e.: people who didn't grow up there, or are there for a few years and leave.) None of those people ever listened to "Musicradio 77" (unless it was by skip) and probably don't care. (Those who are old enough and grew up elsewhere had their own "hometown" WABC, and that's the station they remember most fondly.) You'd please some lifelong locals doing this, but, very possibly, you'd be programming to the minority, not the majority.
'PLJ as WABC-FM? It might have worked...years ago. But, the powers-that-be at ABC Radio kept that from happening, which is sad. The cost of that mistake by ABC brass could well be incalculable.
As to the idea of "playing back the old WABC lists", you're forgetting one thing: what percentage of the population of The New York Metro are "transient" or "relocated" residents? (i.e.: people who didn't grow up there, or are there for a few years and leave.) None of those people ever listened to "Musicradio 77" (unless it was by skip) and probably don't care. (Those who are old enough and grew up elsewhere had their own "hometown" WABC, and that's the station they remember most fondly.) You'd please some lifelong locals doing this, but, very possibly, you'd be programming to the minority, not the majority.
'PLJ as WABC-FM? It might have worked...years ago. But, the powers-that-be at ABC Radio kept that from happening, which is sad. The cost of that mistake by ABC brass could well be incalculable.
A
adma
Guest
musiconradio.com said:
Sang and talked about the songs and artists? That sounds like a pretty insipid group of people you were with...
A
adma
Guest
Jason Roberts said:
But 'PLJ as WABC-FM might still be in the works--that is, as a talk simulcast...
F
Froggy
Guest
The Format is too expensive-they won't do it.They could do any number of Music Formats...move away from the AC into an ADULT/POP CHR or they could go Country or Jazz...If they wanted to concentrate on serving an underserved audience they could go Urban/Oldies in a 60's & 70's Version or a 70's/80's or 80's/90's version.Or even have Scott Shannon put together a Custom Version of TRUE OLDIES & Brand It Oldies95 WABC.(include me with the group that doesn't consider CLASSIC HITS to be OLDIES.adma said:
A
adma
Guest
Froggy said:
How is simulcasting the AM signal "more expensive"?
Or are you suggesting they'd sooner scrap the AM talker than the FM music signal? For all of Citadel's woes, or the AM band's woes, and despite all the infomercials, I've heard less about WABC being at a formattic crossroads than WPLJ...
me said:
Yeesh! Perhaps I should have used the sarcasm tags [sarcasm]***[/sarcasm] in my original post, regarding altering testing parameters,etc. Clearly, the songs mentioned weren't major hits, didn't test well or were special edits. As such I didn't expect them to make the cut in music tests and didn't expect them to be in regular, moderate or even lunar rotation on CBS-FM or any successful classic hits station.
Nonetheless, thanks to SuperRadioFan who recognized The Ones "You Haven't Seen My Love" which featured a lead vocal by a kid who was 17 at the time.
-9-
B
BACKnUSSR
Guest
musiconradio.com said:This is an interesting post. Most of the songs listed are ones that will trigger the push button on several radios YIKES!!!
Paul Anka, Hazy shade of winter, Wany Ads, will do it (push the buttons).
Were an American Band, Call On Me...will not.
I think as radio and music people, we tend to get caught up in our tastes and what we remember. Not what the listener goes for. Several of the songs listed are "yeah I remember that one" But there is not a memorable or "feel good connection"
I heard on Station in my listening area play "My Hometown" "Brand New Key" "Sunday Bloody Sunday" "I wish It Would rain down' 'Runaway' and other forgettable songs. I was with a group of people who made the comment this is a really bad station. When I switched over to the station I am going to describe bellow the mood changed, everyone sang, and people talked about the songs and artists.
I know a certain big group of "Classic hits, Better Variety" stations that has about 435 songs in rotation. They specialize in 70's and 80's. I think the "Burn out factor has set in and now place in the rotation you will hear "Respect" "Pretty Woman" and certain songs from the sixties. One of the more unusual choices is Get the party started by Pink ( I Guess it tested well), and you hear three country songs 'This Kiss" "Man I Feel Like A woman" , "Live like you were Dying" They overdue the core artists a bit "bee Gees Chicago, etc. But, It is a very enjoyable station.
In a nutshell...Testing works
The second station sounds a lot more all over the road that the first one!!
Pink....? Really? I haven't seen it test well anywhere in over a year.
And that's a lot of country for NYC.....very unfamiliar (although yes they were huge national hits).
- Status