WCBS-FM has Problems with their Music Format Playlist

[adma]

Simulcasting the AM signal would certainly be cheap, but is it really going to bring in much more revenue? It seems like it would be a huge waste of a frequency when there are so many things that a station could put on 95.5 and make some money with.

Doesn't matter. As long as they save money. And remember that it addresses two concerns out there:

(a) that AM radio's days are numbered (i.e. simulcasting as preparation for a wholesale shift to FM),

(b) that commercial-format music radio is on a quicker road to obsolescence than news/talk/sports, thanks to changes in technology and consumption and cultural habits.

So, all things considered, no waste of frequency. Remember: this is 2008, not 1978 or 1988.

 

[Froggy]

'PLJ as WABC-FM? It might have worked...years ago. But, the powers-that-be at ABC Radio kept that from happening, which is sad. The cost of that mistake by ABC brass could well be incalculable.

But 'PLJ as WABC-FM might still be in the works--that is, as a talk simulcast...

The Format is too expensive-they won't do it.They could do any number of Music Formats...move away from the AC into an ADULT/POP CHR or they could go Country or Jazz...If they wanted to concentrate on serving an underserved audience they could go Urban/Oldies in a 60's & 70's Version or a 70's/80's or 80's/90's version.Or even have Scott Shannon put together a Custom Version of TRUE OLDIES & Brand It Oldies95 WABC.(include me with the group that doesn't consider CLASSIC HITS to be OLDIES.

How is simulcasting the AM signal "more expensive"?

Or are you suggesting they'd sooner scrap the AM talker than the FM music signal? For all of Citadel's woes, or the AM band's woes, and despite all the infomercials, I've heard less about WABC being at a formattic crossroads than WPLJ...

First off you have several "issues" with simulcasting the AM.....#1 You're throwing away a perfectly good FM with a very good signal and the potential revenue.

#2.Program Clearance.OK...WABC is a 50,000 watt blowtorch but Citadel would have to get consent from all the other affiliates who carry the same Network Programming WABC carries(AM & FM) within WPLJ's Coverage Area in order to air it on FM.

#3.FM is not AM...Simply airing WABC on FM isn't the answer because the FM TALK Audience isn't the same as the AM TALK Audience.

#4.FM Talk has been tried twice & flopped.

#5.Therefore my conclusion that it's TOO EXPENSIVE.Citadel isn't looking to SPEND MONEY...their looking to SAVE....A Real FM Talker will require a Full Staffing of at least 7 Hosts(assuming AM Drive is Satellite) then add a morning team of three or four....The Only Area they would save is having AM news People on FM Too.Then figure playing some kind of Music Format on Weekends anyways.

In Reality...They'll put a 24 Hour Music Format in Place with a PD/MD who is on the air PM Drive plus a Morning Team and Middays,Evenings,Late Nights & Overnights will be Voice Tracked.Two or Three Bodies vs...Ten or Eleven.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

First off you have several "issues" with simulcasting the AM.....#1 You're throwing away a perfectly good FM with a very good signal and the potential revenue.

Throwing it away? How? There are many people who never listen to AM that might be perfectly happy with WABC's programming if they actually heard it. "Potential" revenue is nice. "Actual" revenue is more important.

#2.Program Clearance.OK...WABC is a 50,000 watt blowtorch but Citadel would have to get consent from all the other affiliates who carry the same Network Programming WABC carries(AM & FM) within WPLJ's Coverage Area in order to air it on FM.

No they wouldn't. ALL of WPLJ's coverage area falls within WABC's, so technically, WABC is the only station that would need to consent. And, (in the case of news and features) WPLJ is already an ABC Radio Network affiliate anyway.

#3.FM is not AM...Simply airing WABC on FM isn't the answer because the FM TALK Audience isn't the same as the AM TALK Audience.

Nope..it isnt the same. If it were, you'd be right about throwing away a perfectly good signal. You'd attract new and different listeners on FM....just as Howard Stern did when he went from WNBC to WXRK.

#4.FM Talk has been tried twice & flopped.

It wasn't because it was FM. It was because it was talk that wouldve flopped on AM too.
Hey Top 40 didnt go too well in the early days of FM, and people thought at the time, it was because AM was the place for
pop music.

#5.Therefore my conclusion that it's TOO EXPENSIVE.Citadel isn't looking to SPEND MONEY...their looking to SAVE....A Real FM Talker will require a Full Staffing of at least 7 Hosts(assuming AM Drive is Satellite) then add a morning team of three or four....The Only Area they would save is having AM news People on FM Too.Then figure playing some kind of Music Format on Weekends anyways.

Bad conclusion. A simulcast of a successful talk format, which hasn't been done in NYC in many years would SAVE money.
You wouldn't hire new staffs, and you could combine marketing budgets as well. It is a very BIG cost cutting move.
The only question is would the savings and combined revenue yield the same profit margin that two formats and two billing streams create now.

In Reality...They'll put a 24 Hour Music Format in Place with a PD/MD who is on the air PM Drive plus a Morning Team and Middays,Evenings,Late Nights & Overnights will be Voice Tracked.Two or Three Bodies vs...Ten or Eleven.

Most likely, they will not consider this a programming issue and will leave the formats alone. On air PD/MD isn't going to happen.And voice tracking all day? Wouldn't save enough....and would be too much of a strategic disadvantage against the other stations in the market. Nice try.

 

[adma]

Most likely, they will not consider this a programming issue and will leave the formats alone. On air PD/MD isn't going to happen.And voice tracking all day? Wouldn't save enough....and would be too much of a strategic disadvantage against the other stations in the market. Nice try.

But "leaving the formats alone" might not adequately address problems (including declining billing) specific to PLJ--and by and large, this may depend on how the future of music radio is judged.

And back to WCBS playlist discussions--we must remember: in an age of downloads, we are our own best "music testers". That's why these arguments over what belongs and what doesn't belong seem like rather backward thinking, even among those who are defending "testing" logic--I remember my observation on the dentist's "ideal" WCBS playlist, that while it might have made sense a decade ago, today it just looks like a dentist's blah iPod, who cares.

So, "mass appeal" radio is really the remnant of an older definition of mass appeal, increasingly the domain of laggarts and the otherwise impoverished. And when "testing" serves nothing more than "ad billing", you've got what's basically a demo equivalent to popup/spam/punch-the-monkey-and-win pigeons.

In the old days, it was a matter of rejecting "You Light Up My Life" as crap that doesn't test well anymore. Now, it'd be a matter of "You Light Up My Life" on a list of 70s oldies downloads, and it's up to you, the downloader, to decide whether it's too crappy...

 

[davideduardo]

In the old days, it was a matter of rejecting "You Light Up My Life" as crap that doesn't test well anymore. Now, it'd be a matter of "You Light Up My Life" on a list of 70s oldies downloads, and it's up to you, the downloader, to decide whether it's too crappy...

Nothing, in fact, changes. Testing determines what your core listeners want to hear on the radio today (in fact, many moderators of tests explain it this way) and not in iPods or in a playlist someone built for their spouse's birthday.

Irrespective of downloads, radio stations have to have a high appeal with all songs to the listener base. And in PPM, we see that marginal or poor testing songs work even worse. You did know we can see listening down to the song level, right?

 

[xmradiopro]

In that case, this would explain why WCBS-FM does not add new music to their playlist. I think this is a mistake.

In the old days, it was a matter of rejecting "You Light Up My Life" as crap that doesn't test well anymore. Now, it'd be a matter of "You Light Up My Life" on a list of 70s oldies downloads, and it's up to you, the downloader, to decide whether it's too crappy...

Nothing, in fact, changes. Testing determines what your core listeners want to hear on the radio today (in fact, many moderators of tests explain it this way) and not in iPods or in a playlist someone built for their spouse's birthday.

Irrespective of downloads, radio stations have to have a high appeal with all songs to the listener base. And in PPM, we see that marginal or poor testing songs work even worse. You did know we can see listening down to the song level, right?

 

[Those RRRRs]

I'll take this topic a step further. I think it has very little to do with testing. At my job I see sheeple whistling and singing the most mindless oldies and classic chicken rock all day.

If the powers-that-be supply the sheeple with only a handful of tunes that are easy to remember and memorize, they can keep their minds occupied with frivilous material while they continue to exploit them for their money and control the gov't, press, media, and universities.

It's a disgrace.

 

[davideduardo]

In that case, this would explain why WCBS-FM does not add new music to their playlist. I think this is a mistake.

By "new music" I presume you mean adding "oldies" that they don't currently play at any point in time. On that point, they do. You can, in fact, tell from BDS or MediaBase when they have tested, as some songs go away and others are added to rotation at different levels.

 

[davideduardo]

I'll take this topic a step further. I think it has very little to do with testing. At my job I see sheeple whistling and singing the most mindless oldies and classic chicken rock all day.

If the powers-that-be supply the sheeple with only a handful of tunes that are easy to remember and memorize, they can keep their minds occupied with frivilous material while they continue to exploit them for their money and control the gov't, press, media, and universities.

It's a disgrace.

Was your great great grandfather Marx or Engel? Maybe just Eugene Debs.

 

[flashback]

I'll take this topic a step further. I think it has very little to do with testing. At my job I see sheeple whistling and singing the most mindless oldies and classic chicken rock all day.

If the powers-that-be supply the sheeple with only a handful of tunes that are easy to remember and memorize, they can keep their minds occupied with frivilous material while they continue to exploit them for their money and control the gov't, press, media, and universities.

It's a disgrace.

Was your great great grandfather Marx or Engel? Maybe just Eugene Debs.

while I don`t believe the political conclusion , I still believe that the majority of listeners of radio are like sheep who don`t want to expand their musical horizons and just want to listen to the same few songs over and over.until that changes . radio won`t reach heights musically that it should.

when I am lucky enough to listen to a station that is diverse in its musical selection I don`t change the station when I hear a song I don`t like. I leave it there waiting for the next one.

I never worked in radio but I have loved to listen to it since I was a kid in jr high and I don`t want to have to listen to satalite radio to get good music.

 

[adma]

I'll take this topic a step further. I think it has very little to do with testing. At my job I see sheeple whistling and singing the most mindless oldies and classic chicken rock all day.

If the powers-that-be supply the sheeple with only a handful of tunes that are easy to remember and memorize, they can keep their minds occupied with frivilous material while they continue to exploit them for their money and control the gov't, press, media, and universities.

It's a disgrace.

Was your great great grandfather Marx or Engel? Maybe just Eugene Debs.

Sayeth one whose listener ideal is Elian Gonzalez's American relatives and hangers-on...

 

[MarcR]

I'll take this topic a step further. I think it has very little to do with testing. At my job I see sheeple whistling and singing the most mindless oldies and classic chicken rock all day.

If the powers-that-be supply the sheeple with only a handful of tunes that are easy to remember and memorize, they can keep their minds occupied with frivilous material while they continue to exploit them for their money and control the gov't, press, media, and universities.

It's a disgrace.

Was your great great grandfather Marx or Engel? Maybe just Eugene Debs.

Actually, I think he comes across more like the character of "Hyde" from That '70's Show than Marx or Engels. ;D

 

[davideduardo]

Sayeth one whose listener ideal is Elian Gonzalez's American relatives and hangers-on...

That is amont the more senseless remarks I have ever heard.

 

[LIradiofan226]

The argument that CBS doesn't play slow songs has merit except when you peruse the playlist to see some of the songs they do play.

7:03PM last night- It's too late ( Carole King)
9:16PM- Piano Man ( Billy Joel)
9:31PM- You Make Me Feel Brand New ( The Stylistics)
10:09PM- I Keep Forgettin ( Michael Macdonald)
10:14PM- Emotion ( Samantha Sang)
11:28PM- When Will I See You Again? ( Three Degrees)


3:45am- Sittin On the Dock of the Bay ( Otis Redding)
3:56am- Ain No Mountain High Enough ( Diana Ross)
4:00am- I'm Not in Love ( 10 CC)
5:38am- These Dreams ( Heart)

6am- My Cherie Amour ( Stevie Wonder)
6:47am- Dreams ( Fleetwood Mac)
8:27am- Superstar ( Carpenters)
8:58am- When a Man Loves a Woman ( Percy Sledge)
10:15am- Lets Stay Together ( Al Green)

 

[xmradiopro]

The problem is actually not their playlist, the problem is that they replay their songs over and over again. The problem is they won't play songs outside their playlist who wants to hear the same songs over and over again ?

The argument that CBS doesn't play slow songs has merit except when you peruse the playlist to see some of the songs they do play.

7:03PM last night- It's too late ( Carole King)
9:16PM- Piano Man ( Billy Joel)
9:31PM- You Make Me Feel Brand New ( The Stylistics)
10:09PM- I Keep Forgettin ( Michael Macdonald)
10:14PM- Emotion ( Samantha Sang)
11:28PM- When Will I See You Again? ( Three Degrees)


3:45am- Sittin On the Dock of the Bay ( Otis Redding)
3:56am- Ain No Mountain High Enough ( Diana Ross)
4:00am- I'm Not in Love ( 10 CC)
5:38am- These Dreams ( Heart)

6am- My Cherie Amour ( Stevie Wonder)
6:47am- Dreams ( Fleetwood Mac)
8:27am- Superstar ( Carpenters)
8:58am- When a Man Loves a Woman ( Percy Sledge)
10:15am- Lets Stay Together ( Al Green)

 

[davideduardo]

The problem is actually not their playlist, the problem is that they replay their songs over and over again.

All stations replay the same songs. In fact, so do people with iPods or CD collections.

The problem is they won't play songs outside their playlist who wants to hear the same songs over and over again ?

99% of listeners seek familiar favorite songs. They are not music historians and to not have a copy of a Whitburn book with them at all times. The songs not played are in two categories: 1) songs that listeners do not expect to hear on a staiton (too hard, too soft, tooo old, too new, etc.) or songs that the majority of listeners have indicated they do not want to hear.

 

[xmradiopro]

I understand this to be true...my argument is that they should not follow that rule instead play new music that was popular especially if listeners would welcome the new sound.

The problem is actually not their playlist, the problem is that they replay their songs over and over again.

All stations replay the same songs. In fact, so do people with iPods or CD collections.

The problem is they won't play songs outside their playlist who wants to hear the same songs over and over again ?

99% of listeners seek familiar favorite songs. They are not music historians and to not have a copy of a Whitburn book with them at all times. The songs not played are in two categories: 1) songs that listeners do not expect to hear on a staiton (too hard, too soft, tooo old, too new, etc.) or songs that the majority of listeners have indicated they do not want to hear.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

I understand this to be true...my argument is that they should not follow that rule instead play new music that was popular especially if listeners would welcome the new sound.

So, in essence, you're suggesting they change format. Maybe to Hot AC?

 

[xmradiopro]

Actaully I would like to see WCBS-FM turn to music that the old WYNY 97.1 Player in the early 1980s as well as the very old WKTU 92.3 played in 1976-1977.

I understand this to be true...my argument is that they should not follow that rule instead play new music that was popular especially if listeners would welcome the new sound.

So, in essence, you're suggesting they change format. Maybe to Hot AC?

 

[scooty430]

For a station to be truly great, it has to have some kind of heart beyond research.

Unless you have that, you might get ratings and earn a buck, but you'll be McRadio.

And the coprorate guys reading this will say, "Right, so what's your point?"

Years ago, you'd see radio station's call letters scrawled onto bathroom walls, on people's cars, and on people's t-shirts.

Would anyone even think of doing that today? Maybe only as an ironic joke.

Research = Vanilla.