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WCBS-FM might flip to the simulcast WCBS-AM all-news 880

Believe me, I don't disagree that putting two news stations on FM in the NYC Metro area wouldn't be the most favorable use of spectrum, but it doesn't seem like they're helping their own self by doing things like cutting staff. There are some changes that are needed with the CBS Radio NYC cluster and it's pretty obvious that they're trying to soften the financial blow by ditching people from the entire radio division. The only thing I have to say is too bad the higher-ups don't take ownership of the missteps and do something about it.


Bill
CapitalRadio.us
 
neo11 said:
What a monumental waste of two full-power FM signals. AM is perfectly fine for news and talk, and between the two stations' coverage patterns, the entire metro area is covered and usually overlapped except where one station has a null.

And what would they do with the two AM's? Two oldies stations? Why would they compete against themselves like that and fracture that audience more than it needs to? But if they only put on one oldies station, what would the other AM air? And don't you think that, when it all comes down to it, billing will decrease? Music on AM, even oldies, isn't going to be a money-maker in a market like NYC, plain and simple. CBS Radio will make more money having the three lowest-ranked full-power FM's in NYC, than it would with putting news on FM (which would actually *decrease* the coverage area as stations like WCBS can be heard hundreds of miles away), and putting on two (sadly) dying formats on the AM. This is a business, after all. One can argue (and quite successfully) that what CBS Radio has done with its FM's is dumb, but this move would be even worse.
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How would billing decrease if you put news/talk on FM? Just wondering.
 
Billing for the overall cluster would decrease. It's not like the news stations are having any trouble pulling in lots of money on the AM side, but most music formats, if put on AM, would be hard-pressed to make much money, especially in NYC. Even a low-rated music FM, however, would probably bill more than music on AM, especially a format like oldies (like it or not, it's true). So, overall, the CBS Radio cluster would stand to lose in a situation like that.
 
Faraway said:
The KSL and KTAR examples don't necessarily apply here because the simulcasts are going on stations that are essentuially sticks with minimal billing. 880 is a revenue monster. CBS-FM may not bill anywhere near what it did a few years back but I'm betting it's still not shabby. A simulcast would erase millions of dollars in potential billing. I don't think the simulcast is likely. Moving the news format to FM would be great but what would you do on the AM signal that could come close to the revenues Jack has now. For CBS to do something like that, they'd need to at least break even on the deal...my guess is that no way no how would they ever be able to come up with a format for 880 that would equal the billing of Jack. Hey, I grew up on WLS, WCFL and Dx'd WABC, I loved that kind of radio...but these days, oldies on FM is a tough sell, let along on AM.
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In the Hudson Valley, WBPM's oldies format is on "Cool 92.9" and it's still owned by Clear Channel, not CBS Radio. Oldies on FM is a viable format in the Hudson Valley area and elsewhere. NYC continues not to have an oldies station including WABC where they still have the "Saturday Night Oldies Show" with Mark Simone. WBPM's "Cool 92.9" oldies format in Saugerties does not come into NYC, because it's 100 miles away north. According to "Cool 92.9's" website, it doesn't have stream except WTRY up in Albany has an oldies stream at 98.3.
 
disney fanatic said:
Faraway said:
The KSL and KTAR examples don't necessarily apply here because the simulcasts are going on stations that are essentuially sticks with minimal billing. 880 is a revenue monster. CBS-FM may not bill anywhere near what it did a few years back but I'm betting it's still not shabby. A simulcast would erase millions of dollars in potential billing. I don't think the simulcast is likely. Moving the news format to FM would be great but what would you do on the AM signal that could come close to the revenues Jack has now. For CBS to do something like that, they'd need to at least break even on the deal...my guess is that no way no how would they ever be able to come up with a format for 880 that would equal the billing of Jack. Hey, I grew up on WLS, WCFL and Dx'd WABC, I loved that kind of radio...but these days, oldies on FM is a tough sell, let along on AM.
Click to expand...

In the Hudson Valley, WBPM's oldies format is on "Cool 92.9" and it's still owned by Clear Channel, not CBS Radio. Oldies on FM is a viable format in the Hudson Valley area and elsewhere. NYC continues not to have an oldies station including WABC where they still have the "Saturday Night Oldies Show" with Mark Simone. WBPM's "Cool 92.9" oldies format in Saugerties does not come into NYC, because it's 100 miles away north. According to "Cool 92.9's" website, it doesn't have stream except WTRY up in Albany has an oldies stream at 98.3.
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Your point?
 
I may not be from New York, but I do hope something can be done for 101.1, with DJs in place.

It is sad to see that a format that gives AM an excuse to exsist (I mean, when you talk, or report news, who cares if it's mono or stereo? ;D ) may now be repeated on FM.
What a waste...unless the plan is to put oldies on AM...?

A good place for it.

The music was originally recorded in mono anyway...unless we speak of modern oldies, then it's not such a good idea.
 
Garrett said:
The problem (in my view) is not about the loss of Oldies, its about the loss of WCBS FM. They could have just dropped Oldies altogether, kept the WCBS FM name, and played Hot AC currents, or Mainstream CHR. And why not? If Oldies pull demos too old, why not play new music.

I think it's more about putting Jack FM on a sacred frequency, kind of like tearing down an historical monument to put in a Starbucks. I understand why they had to flip, but the replacement was waaay in the wrong direction. The music they are playing now, is not that much newer than what CBS FM played, imo. But getting rid of the dj's, and taking away the name, baaaad idea.
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Sacred frequency?!?!? ???
Maybe to a (highly vocal) relative handful of 50s oldies/doo-wop fans, but to the public at large...give me a break! 770 survived the demise of Musicradio, 101.1 will survive the end of oldies too. The problem (and this applies to 102.7 as well) is that the calls/frequency were deeply associated with a bygone era...WCBS with doo-wop, 50s oldies and 60s-vintage WABC jocks, 102.7 with Woodstock. In both cases programming tweaks didn't work to bring in new/younger listeners...in the view of management both stations had to be totally blown up. Whether the right choices were made can (and no doubt will) be debated endlessly, but change was overdue.
 
Oldbones said:
Garrett said:
The problem (in my view) is not about the loss of Oldies, its about the loss of WCBS FM. They could have just dropped Oldies altogether, kept the WCBS FM name, and played Hot AC currents, or Mainstream CHR. And why not? If Oldies pull demos too old, why not play new music.

I think it's more about putting Jack FM on a sacred frequency, kind of like tearing down an historical monument to put in a Starbucks. I understand why they had to flip, but the replacement was waaay in the wrong direction. The music they are playing now, is not that much newer than what CBS FM played, imo. But getting rid of the dj's, and taking away the name, baaaad idea.
Click to expand...

Sacred frequency?!?!? ???
Maybe to a (highly vocal) relative handful of 50s oldies/doo-wop fans, but to the public at large...give me a break! 770 survived the demise of Musicradio, 101.1 will survive the end of oldies too. The problem (and this applies to 102.7 as well) is that the calls/frequency were deeply associated with a bygone era...WCBS with doo-wop, 50s oldies and 60s-vintage WABC jocks, 102.7 with Woodstock. In both cases programming tweaks didn't work to bring in new/younger listeners...in the view of management both stations had to be totally blown up. Whether the right choices were made can (and no doubt will) be debated endlessly, but change was overdue.
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Agreed, sometimes you just have to blow everything up and start fresh. Fresh format, fresh calls, etc.
 
Kevin said:
Agreed, sometimes you just have to blow everything up and start fresh. Fresh format, fresh calls, etc.
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This was the case 22 years ago with 107.9 in Souothern Connecticut. The former WDJF was so damaged by mis-steps of management that the only thing that saved it was the sale in 1984 which included a clean sweep of the air staff, a major change in audio imaging and sound processing and new calls (now WEBE-108FM). I think the only way for 101.1 to move ahead is to tear down whatever image many people associate with the station and do a complete makeover. Problem is, it seems CBS Radio doesn't have their act together to do this effectively, as they should have done this on 102.7 many years ago.


Bill
CapitalRadio.us
 
Bill DeFelice said:
Kevin said:
Agreed, sometimes you just have to blow everything up and start fresh. Fresh format, fresh calls, etc.
Click to expand...

This was the case 22 years ago with 107.9 in Souothern Connecticut. The former WDJF was so damaged by mis-steps of management that the only thing that saved it was the sale in 1984 which included a clean sweep of the air staff, a major change in audio imaging and sound processing and new calls (now WEBE-108FM). I think the only way for 101.1 to move ahead is to tear down whatever image many people associate with the station and do a complete makeover. Problem is, it seems CBS Radio doesn't have their act together to do this effectively, as they should have done this on 102.7 many years ago.


Bill
CapitalRadio.us
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Uh, isn't that what JACK FM was? A total wipe-out clean slate?
So you are suggesting they have to do that again.
Following that logic, I could see why CBS Corp blew out the 101.1 management team, since they have to start over, all over again.
 
Garrett said:
Uh, isn't that what JACK FM was? A total wipe-out clean slate?
So you are suggesting they have to do that again.
Following that logic, I could see why CBS Corp blew out the 101.1 management team, since they have to start over, all over again.
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I think they really should have changed the calls on the station as well. There's still a big association of "CBS-FM" being an oldies station and that stigma will affect what listeners percieve, Jack format or not. Just like with all the format flips on 102.7, the calls WNEW-FM still gives some people a certain mind set on what they the station station is or should be, due to their past recollections of the station.

Simply changing the format doesn't make an entirely brand new station. The station in Westport changed their calls as part of their "clean sweep" in addition to the audio processing, format tweaking and marketing. Think about it, with just about 18 months of rehab, they were able to take the station they bought for $2 million and sell it for $12 million. They had to do something right.

Of course, it could just be the fact that the Jack format is so poorly executed that nobody really wants to listen to it.


Bill
CapitalRadio.us
 
WCBS FM should go back to its oldies format..This time, they need to bring back the sounds of Doo Wop.

They make excuses on phasing it out into a classic hits format.

CBS Radio is stupid in the flip from Oldies to Adult Hits AKA I-Pod on Shuffle.
 
If that were a definitive answer, then why would they bother to maintain a website and program an oldies format on their HD2 channel?

They are a business, and as such know the difference between a good business decision and a bad one. They aren't likely to put good money to a bad decision, so as long as the website and the format exist in some form within WCBS-FM, I HAVE to believe that they've got some idea that oldies is still a good business to be in...in some form or fashion.

Later....
Matt Smith
WGSR-TV
 
Kevin said:
Doo wop? Not a chance.

Oldies is over on CBS FM.
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I dunno...
Perhaps not "Doo-wop," but you have to admit the switch to Jack turned out to be PR dissaster for CBS! Based on the reports of low ratings at WCBS FM (and the following lay offs of same), I wonder if the switch didn't actually do more damage than it helped. It seems to me that the best thing to do (in the short run), might be to just flip the station back to CBS FM and make a campaign out of it. Right now, they need those listeners back.

Than again, the other side of the coin might be sales, and if sales are good, ratings don't matter. But I have this feeling....

It's a no brainer, they should at least change the name back to CBS FM, and then figure the rest out later... Not sure keeping Jack around is a good idea at this point...
 
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