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WCBS-FM Processing Issues?

L

LenoxAve

Longtime lurker and first time poster here! Just curious - why does WCBS-FM sound so weak and muddy on the dial? The bass is muddled, and the station is fairly soft when compared to the rest of the dial. I'm not saying it should be louder, as louder certainly doesn't always mean better (WLTW, anyone?), but the station sounds like it needs some good punch. It had it upon its return to the classic hits format, and over the years, the quality has deteriorated quite rapidly.

I was out in LA recently and heard KRTH - great processing that complemented the music. IMHO, that's not the case with 101.1 here in NYC.

Does the average listener care? No, I highly doubt it and won't fool myself into thinking they do. But I'm curious as to why the engineering and programming teams wouldn't attempt to make the station sound just as legendary on the processing side as it is in every other aspect.

Somewhat unrelated, their sister station 92-3 NOW has noticeably muddy, thumpy audio compared to Z-100, which was not the case until recently.
 
well one of their best engineer Mike left, He was Awesome!!! Maybe it was a bad day, some days it sounds Great!!! :)
 
mary said:
well one of their best engineer Mike left, He was Awesome!!! Maybe it was a bad day, some days it sounds Great!!! :)
Click to expand...

If a station in NYC is having "good days" and "bad days" with its processing on a regular basis, then something is terribly, terribly wrong! LOL! But I do not think that was it.

The station has sounded consistently mediocre to my ears, although about a month or two ago (whenever they were doing March Music Madness or something to that effect), the station sounded better and quite punchy - almost as if they were demoing a new processor. However, not long after, the station's usual processing returned.
 
Call it the "Henry Behring" effect - he was the reason the audio on Jammin 105 was so God awful as well...he brought that same touch to CBS-FM. A station that is now quieter than co-channel B101...a "soft rock" station!

Mike Erickson had that station sounding simply amazing, and now it's one of the worst in NYC. Shame.
 
Turnpike Tuner said:
Call it the "Henry Behring" effect - he was the reason the audio on Jammin 105 was so God awful as well...he brought that same touch to CBS-FM. A station that is now quieter than co-channel B101...a "soft rock" station!

Mike Erickson had that station sounding simply amazing, and now it's one of the worst in NYC. Shame.
Click to expand...

Dear God, people actually ALLOW this to happen? That's disheartening. Whenever I am in Central Jersey, B101 easily wins out over CBS-FM and takes over in Middlesex County; their processing is indeed quite aggressive for an AC station. I feel as if even Central Jersey's WMGQ, which is fairly light on its processing, rivals CBS-FM in loudness! However, WMGQ is much better processed.

Sad that no one up at CBS RADIO cares enough to bring this to someone's attention or have it remedied. I find myself tuning to other places on the dial now, as there is only so much of CBS-FM's poor processing I can stomach at a time.
 
I haven not heard CBS-FM since my last visit around four months ago. At that time, it sounded competitive and clean. If what the original poster writes is fact, somebody really needs to re-set the precessing to Mike Erickson's settings. I've heard this happen before when one engineer with bad ears and a big ego messed up the processing of more than a few top rated AM and FMs.
 
Audio is not so loud as other stations on the NYC dail. It sounds like there livestream on internet, flat and dry. Still Optimod 8500 on air there?
 
Element9 said:
I haven not heard CBS-FM since my last visit around four months ago. At that time, it sounded competitive and clean. If what the original poster writes is fact, somebody really needs to re-set the precessing to Mike Erickson's settings. I've heard this happen before when one engineer with bad ears and a big ego messed up the processing of more than a few top rated AM and FMs.
Click to expand...

If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'! But seriously, it is quite a bad sounding station from a processing standpoint. As Erwin states, the difference is noticeable both on air and online. The comparison I make with LA's K-Earth 101 in my original post can also be heard via the respective stations' streams, although I know that different markets may have different streaming setups that feed to Radio.com. Check out KRTH, KOOL, WJMK, WRBQ, etc. and compare those streams with CBS-FM's. Not very impressive for CBS-FM.

And, of course, next time you're in the area, I'm sure you'll notice the difference as well. Not clean, not competitive and not in line with what a classic hits station should sound like. It's a shame that someone who obviously does not have an ear for processing has been entrusted with a heritage station like CBS-FM. People on Hudson Street need to wake up and hear the distortion!

It makes you appreciate the stations that sound good. Processing is very much taken for granted. Kudos to the engineers who know how to get it done and the rest of the staff who care enough to make sure it gets done right!
 
erwin33 said:
Audio is not so loud as other stations on the NYC dail. It sounds like there livestream on internet, flat and dry. Still Optimod 8500 on air there?
Click to expand...

Yes. But Mike had some extra goodies in front of the Optimod that were ripped out from my understanding.

NJ 101.5 has a barefoot 8400 on the air (with exception of the Yamaha reverb), and it's louder and cleaner than the 8500 on CBS-FM. Summthin' wrong with that....
 
Re: WCBS-FM Processing Issues? WPLJ?

Now we talking about the processing on CBS FM, lets talk about the processing on WPLJ. It's so loud and lots of bass in the signal and lots of distortion, it sounds horrible! What's going on over there?
 
LenoxAve said:
The comparison I make with LA's K-Earth 101 in my original post can also be heard via the respective stations' streams, although I know that different markets may have different streaming setups that feed to Radio.com.
Click to expand...

In most cases, streams are processed in a separate audio chain including a separate PPM encoder. What you hear on the stream should be tailored for the web, often with something like an Optimod 1101 card. An FM processor, which includes FM preemphasis and a stereo generator, is not exactly what you would put on the stream...

So you can't judge the air sound by the stream quality.
 
Re: WCBS-FM Processing Issues? WPLJ?

erwin33 said:
Now we talking about the processing on CBS FM, lets talk about the processing on WPLJ. It's so loud and lots of bass in the signal and lots of distortion, it sounds horrible! What's going on over there?
Click to expand...

PLJ is running a Omnia 11...it was better around Christmas but now it just sounds like they are trying to out do KTU by just adding low end and clipping.

On that note, there is ZERO processing on WPLJ-HD2 - the levels are very low and very flat. I would think that since it has Scott Shannon's name attached, he would be VERY active in the audio on PLJ-HD2...especially given his rep at Z100 in the 80's for aggressive audio. And if there is a format that is suited for aggressive processing, it's oldies.
 
Re: WCBS-FM Processing Issues? WPLJ?

Turnpike Tuner said:
erwin33 said:
Now we talking about the processing on CBS FM, lets talk about the processing on WPLJ. It's so loud and lots of bass in the signal and lots of distortion, it sounds horrible! What's going on over there?
Click to expand...

PLJ is running a Omnia 11...it was better around Christmas but now it just sounds like they are trying to out do KTU by just adding low end and clipping.

On that note, there is ZERO processing on WPLJ-HD2 - the levels are very low and very flat. I would think that since it has Scott Shannon's name attached, he would be VERY active in the audio on PLJ-HD2...especially given his rep at Z100 in the 80's for aggressive audio. And if there is a format that is suited for aggressive processing, it's oldies.
Click to expand...

PLJ is too loud at the moment. Other stations in NYC using the Omnia.11 processor yet?
 
Re: WCBS-FM Processing Issues? WPLJ?

erwin33 said:
PLJ is too loud at the moment. Other stations in NYC using the Omnia.11 processor yet?
Click to expand...

I think Z100 has a 11 - PLJ is too loud, and when I punched it up, Z sounded quieter than usual.

FWIW, I think WQXR and KTU have the best audio in the city. WQXR is loud for a classical, but retains dynamics and cleanliness, while KTU has the best low end in the city. 96.3's would be up there, but all their music sounds like it was sourced from MP3's.
 
WNYC-FM has some of the cleanest audio on the FM band -- one of the few NYC stations I can listen to for long periods without tiring my ears. But the audio on the AM 820 side is a different story; they are boosting the midrange way too much, making everyone sound like they have the microphone halfway down their throat.
 
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