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WCBS & WINS.....

D

Don Juannn

Guest
I've watched the NY Radio Market (from afar) since the late 70's.

WINS always used to do better in the ratings with their short news cycle and BIG cume.

WCBS always lagged behind WINS (although I always liked the CBS format better with a lot of short features, etc.)

The last few years I see WCBS occasionally beating WINS. (i.e...October and November ratings.)

How come WCBS is suddenly doing much better than WINS after all these years?
 
Don Juannn said:
How come WCBS is suddenly doing much better than WINS after all these years?
Click to expand...

It may be that many people who listen to Yankee games listen to WCBS-AM for news instead of WINS. Just a thought.

Bruce
 
Its not the last few years, its since PPM arrived that WCBS moved ahead, does that say the old ratings system was inaccurate ??
 
scott5 said:
Its not the last few years, its since PPM arrived that WCBS moved ahead, does that say the old ratings system was inaccurate ??
Click to expand...

Really? Did it all change when the PPM came in?

Under the old system, could it be that more people remembered listening to WINS than WCBS?

WINS has that unforgettable logo and slogan line. Maybe that helps when people have to recall what they listened to. WCBS was always a little more sedate and lo-key in comparison.
 
There is considerable evidence that people misremember. It commercial testing it happens that people remember the commercial but get the brand or product wrong. This is more likely to happen in "creative commercials" - the ones listeners like and the ones ad types give each other awards for. The hard sell spots, with lot of repetition - especially of the brand name - are more effective at getting accurate recall and at generating sales.

So, yes, people could write down WINS - even if they listened to WCBS. People may also write down WINS for a period of time even if they switched back and forth. Example, they see brake lights at 06 and switch to WCBS for traffic on the eights. Maybe they'll go back right away for traffic on the ones, maybe not. They may consider WINS "their news station" but they flip over to WCBS a lot more than they realize.

Another factor might be geography. WCBS has always been stronger in the 'burbs. Partly because of its signal. Partly because it pays more attention to the 'burbs. Partly because suburbanites like WCBS' lower key and sedate approach and saw WINS as more city-centric and tabloid. Maybe outlying counties were under-sampled. Maybe suburbanites under reported their listening in diaries.
 
One of our reporters tells the story of walking up to people on the street, holding his WCBS 880 mic flag in plain sight.

"Hi, I'm XXXX XXXXX from WCBS 880..."

Response:

"Oh, 1010WINS...I listen to you all the time!"
 
travisl5678 said:
Do the two stations really compete anymore now that there both owned by CBS?
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Same owner, but different philosophies and different audiences. And I'm sure that WINS and WCBS staffers consider themselves competitors.

Seems to me that KFWB could not differentiate itself that much from KNX in LA--and that's why they're talk now.
 
Mark Jeffries said:
travisl5678 said:
Do the two stations really compete anymore now that there both owned by CBS?
Click to expand...

Same owner, but different philosophies and different audiences. And I'm sure that WINS and WCBS staffers consider themselves competitors.

Seems to me that KFWB could not differentiate itself that much from KNX in LA--and that's why they're talk now.
Click to expand...

WINS runs three 20-minute newswheels per hour and is very NYC centric. People tune in, get their information then tune out, replaced by another audience.

WCBS runs national news at the top of each hour and is basically two 30-minute newscasts each hour. WCBS is far stronger in the suburbs with its 50 kW blaster signal. WINS' signal is directional towards NYC. :)
 
The beginnings of WINS' all-news format go back to its purchase by Group W from Crosley in 1962. In December of 1962, the NYC newspapers went on strike for four months until April 1963. During the strike, WINS' news reports on the hour and half-hour were expanded from five to ten minutes. Every evening at 6:30, WINS aired a 30-minute news block callled Radio Newsday, IIRC.

WINS' regular format at the time was an early version of full-service AC. Other than Murray the K in the evenings, they had pretty much handed the top 40 business to WMCA and WABC. WMGM had left the top 40 format early in 1962. WINS made the switch to all-news 4/19/65. WCBS became NY's second all-news outlet in August 1967. :)
 
radioguy39nj said:
The beginnings of WINS' all-news format go back to its purchase by Group W from Crosley in 1962. In December of 1962, the NYC newspapers went on strike for four months until April 1963. During the strike, WINS' news reports on the hour and half-hour were expanded from five to ten minutes. Every evening at 6:30, WINS aired a 30-minute news block callled Radio Newsday, IIRC.

WINS' regular format at the time was an early version of full-service AC. Other than Murray the K in the evenings, they had pretty much handed the top 40 business to WMCA and WABC. WMGM had left the top 40 format early in 1962. WINS made the switch to all-news 4/19/65. WCBS became NY's second all-news outlet in August 1967. :)
Click to expand...

I'd describe it as full service Top 40. Heavy on news and personality DJs. Avoiding hard rock during the day; avoiding MOR cross-overs at night. It was the default Group W format then. Maybe with ballgames, too. KDKA, WBZ/WBZA, WOWO, KYW-Cleveland, WIND had similar formats.
 
MattParker said:
radioguy39nj said:
The beginnings of WINS' all-news format go back to its purchase by Group W from Crosley in 1962. In December of 1962, the NYC newspapers went on strike for four months until April 1963. During the strike, WINS' news reports on the hour and half-hour were expanded from five to ten minutes. Every evening at 6:30, WINS aired a 30-minute news block callled Radio Newsday, IIRC.

WINS' regular format at the time was an early version of full-service AC. Other than Murray the K in the evenings, they had pretty much handed the top 40 business to WMCA and WABC. WMGM had left the top 40 format early in 1962. WINS made the switch to all-news 4/19/65. WCBS became NY's second all-news outlet in August 1967. :)
Click to expand...

I'd describe it as full service Top 40. Heavy on news and personality DJs. Avoiding hard rock during the day; avoiding MOR cross-overs at night. It was the default Group W format then. Maybe with ballgames, too. KDKA, WBZ/WBZA, WOWO, KYW-Cleveland, WIND had similar formats.
Click to expand...

Full service Top 40 is a fair point. Jack Lacy and Murray the K were the holdovers from the rock 'n' roll format of the late 50s. Of course, WINS had Mad Daddy late nights in 1963 and '64. Art Ford did overnights and Dick Clayton did morning drive. There was no sports on WINS after Les Keiter left for Philadelphia in 1962.

KYW-Cleveland was one of the most influential top 40 stations of the late 50s though the mid-60s. The station's handle was "KY11", for its 1100 dial position. KYW with its 50 kW blaster signal was known as the station that made the hits before the big stations in New York and Chicago played them. :)
 
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