WCCR Radio Improvement Project

[davideduardo]

I find it perplexing that some AM stations in Cleveland reduce power so significantly at night so as to not interfere with stations hundreds of miles away, yet they don't even cover Cuyahoga County.

The issue is that they interfere with each other in the fringe areas of coverage. Were they to, each, increase power the local coverage of both would be impaired.

Those stations like 1260 and 1300 were licensed post-WW II and have to protect senior stations on the channels.

Ones like 1420, 850 and 1220 served Cleveland well when the city had not grown outwards; Cleveland Heights was "way out there" and Parma was separated from Cleveland by fields and farms. But the city grew, and the signals did not and could not.

1490 was a suburban station intended to serve Cleveland and Shaker Heights and that area. 1540 was a daytimer serving the growing Black community.

There is no solution. Nationally, in the 100 biggest markets there are just about 180 AM stations that cover at least 80% of the market day and night. Some markets have none, in fact.

 

[johnbasalla]

I was listening to "Catholic Answers Live" (Monday - Friday 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.), and they were talking about Catholic radio stations. One thing that was said was that Protestant's were well ahead of Catholics in the use of radio to reach the masses and that the next move for Catholic radio is to get more FM stations on the air.

 

[kevtronics]

I was listening to "Catholic Answers Live" (Monday - Friday 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.), and they were talking about Catholic radio stations. One thing that was said was that Protestant's were well ahead of Catholics in the use of radio to reach the masses and that the next move for Catholic radio is to get more FM stations on the air.

The decline of the Catholic Church has more to do with their teachings and policies being out of step with modern society, and the sexual abuse scandal, than the lack of FM radio signals.

The fastest-growing religious affiliation in the USA is "none". Reaching the masses (no pun intended?) with radio isn't going to change that.

 

[johnbasalla]

For what it's worth, they never lack callers on "Catholic Answers Live", and there are other options to listen besides over-the-air radio.

 

[VintageMac]

The decline of the Catholic Church has more to do with their teachings and policies being out of step with modern society, and the sexual abuse scandal, than the lack of FM radio signals.

The fastest-growing religious affiliation in the USA is "none". Reaching the masses (no pun intended?) with radio isn't going to change that.

There is a decline among most religions so it's not just the Catholic church. Protestant and evangelicals clearly have more radio and tv stations out there. EWTN is the only U.S. Catholic television channel that I'm aware of with some of that content also on 1260.

 

[Rusty Muck]

I was listening to "Catholic Answers Live" (Monday - Friday 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.), and they were talking about Catholic radio stations. One thing that was said was that Protestant's were well ahead of Catholics in the use of radio to reach the masses and that the next move for Catholic radio is to get more FM stations on the air.

They aren’t wrong. Only problem is that getting more FM stations on the air in a way that would fulfill that purpose is almost an impossibility.

Sometimes it’s also just luck. St. Gabriel Radio benefitted from AM 820 Columbus being available after WOSU no longer needed it. They started on WUCO 1270 Marysville (which at the time had an extremely directional signal that pulled away from Columbus during the day) and then on WVKO 1580, a typical high-band AM… and then upgraded to 820.

 

[Mikey Radio]

I was listening to "Catholic Answers Live" (Monday - Friday 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.), and they were talking about Catholic radio stations. One thing that was said was that Protestant's were well ahead of Catholics in the use of radio to reach the masses and that the next move for Catholic radio is to get more FM stations on the air.

The decline of the Catholic Church has more to do with their teachings and policies being out of step with modern society, and the sexual abuse scandal, than the lack of FM radio signals.

The fastest-growing religious affiliation in the USA is "none". Reaching the masses (no pun intended?) with radio isn't going to change that.

There is a decline among most religions so it's not just the Catholic church. Protestant and evangelicals clearly have more radio and TV stations out there. EWTN is the only U.S. Catholic television channel that I'm aware of with some of that content also on 1260.

They aren’t wrong. Only problem is that getting more FM stations on the air in a way that would fulfill that purpose is almost an impossibility.

Sometimes it’s also just luck. St. Gabriel Radio benefitted from AM 820 Columbus being available after WOSU no longer needed it. They started on WUCO 1270 Marysville (which at the time had an extremely directional signal that pulled away from Columbus during the day) and then on WVKO 1580, a typical high-band AM… and then upgraded to 820.

I'm not sure it would stop the declining attendance or create more interest if Catholic Churches, other religions or their broadcasters would air on more FM stations. I'm guessing that, like news/talk, the demographic that listens to religious broadcasts on the radio skews older; same with the folks that support said stations financially. While some younger people might be interested, I'm guessing they're in the great minority.

Building on @kevtronics comment, Pew Research has released a few reports over the past years about the declining numbers of people who consider themselves "religious" or who attend a church on a regular basis. None of them cited the lack of radio stations or stated that if more FM radio stations were available to them, they'd perhaps be more inclined to follow a particular religion or attend a church. Many folks 40 and younger stated there's a very big difference between "spirituality" and "Faith" which they buy into and possess vs. organized religion which they do not. Many find the stances and guidelines of Catholic and Evangelical religions especially to be overly restrictive, out of step with the norms of society and rather than loving and caring people who support each other, attendees have instead found many (certainly not all) churches full of people who are gossipy, at least mildly mean-spirited and quick to judge each other and cast dispersions. Young people also tend to be into helping others and performing charitable acts, something that many churches simply don't do, or only practice to a limited extent.

I can share that I lived where there was an Immaculate Heart station on the air for a while. When a caller asked about how to deal with an LGBT+ child, they basically told this woman all the reasons why same-sex relationships were wrong and flew in the face of everything her religion and the bible stands for, rather than simply telling her to be a loving, caring and supportive parent to her child. There was no information about medical, scientific or psychological research and the factual information they've published. Somehow I'm not sure Jesus himself would've handled that situation in the same manner as the folks at Immaculate Heart did.

 

[johnbasalla]

EWTN is the only U.S. Catholic television channel that I'm aware of with some of that content also on 1260.

The Ave Maria network also provides content to Catholic radio stations. They are in Michigan. They provide newscasts during their programming, ("Ave Maria Radio News"). "Kresta In The Afternoon" is a product of Ave Maria Radio.

 

[johnbasalla]

Mikey Radio said ... performing charitable acts, something that many churches simply don't do, or only practice to a limited extent.

Catholic Charities is a major charitable outreach of the Catholic Church. As for Immaculate Heart radio, they were reinforcing what the Bible teaches, as in (I think it is) Leviticus Chapter 18, verse 22.

 

[kevtronics]

Somehow I'm not sure Jesus himself would've handled that situation in the same manner as the folks at Immaculate Heart did.

They could learn something from how this Christian hotline handled it:

 

[Mikey Radio]

Mikey Radio said ... performing charitable acts, something that many churches simply don't do, or only practice to a limited extent.

Catholic Charities is a major charitable outreach of the Catholic Church. As for Immaculate Heart radio, they were reinforcing what the Bible teaches, as in (I think it is) Leviticus Chapter 18, verse 22.

@johnbasalla I won't disagree with you here, not because I think you're right, but a Radio Discussions site isn't a place to debate religious doctrine, and to be frank, with my apologies to the moderators, we've already taken this particular discussion thread too far off topic as it is. That said, in response to your comments above, I would simply say that's not how many folks aged 40 and younger see either of those things, and they're the ones you'd need to convince, as they're the ones no longer filling the pews or putting $$ in the collection plate. "Charity" in many folks' views, is something much bigger than just taking up a collection each month to support Catholic Charities (which I agree is a solid organization, BTW). Regarding the verse quoted; if you look at the Bible and Jesus' teachings as a whole, it says so much more than that particular verse which is often cherry picked, twisted and cited by people to try and support their particular prejudiced point of view. Ask those same people if they're practicing what's clearly outlined verbatim in other bible verses, and you get a blank stare.

 

[Mikey Radio]

If WWVA had moved to Stow, it would still have been a 50,000 watt signal on 1170. It wouldn't have been nondirectional like WTAM, but it would have been the second-best Cleveland AM at night and probably third by day after 850.

At the time the project was cancelled, I heard some interesting reasons why, having to do more with local management in the market than anything technical.

As for why signals like 1260 are where they are, you have to understand how the FCC rules worked in the post-WWII era when many of these were licensed. Stations then had to put 25 mV/m over the central business district of their city of license. As a practical matter, that meant a 5000-watt station in the upper part of the dial had to be within 8 miles or so of downtown.

On 1260, then-WDOK had to protect other stations that were on the channel first, including Indianapolis, Washington DC and Boston.

Draw out those protections to the southwest, southeast and east, and the site pretty much had to be due south aiming north with a pretty tight pattern at night.

There were hundreds and hundreds of these post-WWII class III regional channel DAs, and almost none of them ended up with broad enough patterns to serve their entire markets as they sprawled out after the war.

(I know. I'm on one!)

@fybush to bring us back on topic, if WWVA had relocated to Stow and remained on their same frequency and power, any idea how they'd have dealt with the adjacent that @Yabadabado1 mentioned in his earlier post?

 

[gr8oldies]

I was listening to "Catholic Answers Live" (Monday - Friday 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.), and they were talking about Catholic radio stations. One thing that was said was that Protestant's were well ahead of Catholics in the use of radio to reach the masses and that the next move for Catholic radio is to get more FM stations on the air.

True. Protestants (and outliers) got started as far back as the 30s. They also had more "show biz" as opposed to droning on about the evils of birth control.

 

[gr8oldies]

@johnbasalla I won't disagree with you here, not because I think you're right, but a Radio Discussions site isn't a place to debate religious doctrine, and to be frank, with my apologies to the moderators, we've already taken this particular discussion thread too far off topic as it is. That said, in response to your comments above, I would simply say that's not how many folks aged 40 and younger see either of those things, and they're the ones you'd need to convince, as they're the ones no longer filling the pews or putting $$ in the collection plate. "Charity" in many folks' views, is something much bigger than just taking up a collection each month to support Catholic Charities (which I agree is a solid organization, BTW). Regarding the verse quoted; if you look at the Bible and Jesus' teachings as a whole, it says so much more than that particular verse which is often cherry picked, twisted and cited by people to try and support their particular prejudiced point of view. Ask those same people if they're practicing what's clearly outlined verbatim in other bible verses, and you get a blank stare.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that the Catholic radio networks are run by lay Catholic organizations, not the respective dioceses. They can sometimes differ from official doctrine (EWTN has been called the Catholic Fox News)

 

[VintageMac]

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that the Catholic radio networks are run by lay Catholic organizations, not the respective dioceses. They can sometimes differ from official doctrine (EWTN has been called the Catholic Fox News)

I think that is mostly correct. Mother Angelica who started EWTN was a more conservative and traditional Catholic.

 

[VintageMac]

The Ave Maria network also provides content to Catholic radio stations. They are in Michigan. They provide newscasts during their programming, ("Ave Maria Radio News"). "Kresta In The Afternoon" is a product of Ave Maria Radio.

I was thinking about television primarily. Is Ave Maria on cable and/or satellite like EWTN?

 

[Santa fe]

Religious radio is an American broadcast tradition, literally going back more than 100 years. One of the first broadcasts on KDKA was a church service.
There are commercial, for profit pay-for-play broadcasters, such as Salem, and non-profit organizations like the Educational Media Foundation. Plus many secular commercial stations air paid religious shows, especially on weekends. Most programs have a component of fund-raising, whether to pay for their airtime or to support the non-profit.
Congress over the years has been very kind to religious broadcasters, granting them, both before and after deregulation, relief from many rules and regulations that still applied to other operations.
In general, no matter what specific doctrines are involved, religious radio is a lucrative and long-standing part of the industry with a small but consistent listener base. It will evolve into the new technologies as needed.

 

[gr8oldies]

I was thinking about television primarily. Is Ave Maria on cable and/or satellite like EWTN?

I believe EWTN remains the only Catholic television network.

 

[johnbasalla]

I was thinking about television primarily. Is Ave Maria on cable and/or satellite like EWTN?

Ave Maria is a radio (audio) source only, as far as I know.

 

[johnbasalla]

Regarding the verse quoted; if you look at the Bible and Jesus' teachings as a whole, it says so much more than that particular verse which is often cherry picked, twisted and cited by people to try and support their particular prejudiced point of view. Ask those same people if they're practicing what's clearly outlined verbatim in other bible verses, and you get a blank stare.

There are other references to the issue elsewhere in the Bible as well.