I don't remember this either, but I've read about it.
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WCEV AM 1450 to close down
- Thread starter CADXER
- Start date
The WENR transmitter site was a few miles South of the WCFL/WMVP site in Downers Grove. Not sure if WLS ever used it. In retrospect they probably should have left it there and put WLS there also. The late Glen Clark realized that after the Prairie Farmer era, the TL should have been nearer to the center of the Chicago Market. He was involved in trying to find a new site, first near Addison, and then near West Chicago. It's all on the History Cards. The newer station on 900 in Wisconsin Dells objected to overlap predicted my M-3, although WLS did actual measurements on another frequency that there was no overlap. I guess the station in Wisconsin Dells objected to the veracity of the measurements, which would probably vary at different times of the year.
I wonder what Mr. Heller would be willing to bid for the former allocation of WCEV. He chides the licensee of WRLL for not making an offer to buy WCEV while the license was still active, but apparently he made no offer for the license himself.
It honestly seems quixotic to auction all these failed AM stations...
That's correct. Until mid 1996 all three stations used their own towers and transmitters. WSBC used the stick on 4949 W. Belmont (together with WXRT FM), WCRW used an antenna on top of a building at 2756 N. Pine Grove, and WEDC used the stick at 5475 N. Milwaukee Avenue.
In 1996, WSBC bought out WCRW. The sharing arrangement between WSBC and WEDC lasted for almost one year. In April of 1997 WSBC bought out WEDC and moved their transmissions to the 5475 N. Milwaukee site, which they still use today. Eventually WCPT (820) was diplexed on the same antenna.
The old WCRW stick on top of the building is long gone, but the stick on Belmont Avenue is still used as aux tower for several FM stations.
Pics of the three separate 1240 towers . WCRW, WEDC, WSBC
According to what I read a long time ago Prairie Farmer had a big beef with cook county and built the transmitter farther out.
Nobody could see the future with the Musicradio years. When looking back it didn't seem to hurt them much.
I believe the original WSCR on 820 also used the tower at 4949 Belmont.
That's correct. The former WAIT had gone dark in 1991 when its site in Elmhurst was sold, and it was Jan. 2, 1992 when Diamond put 820 back on the air from both studio and tower at 4949 Belmont, diplexed with WSBC.
As WSCR changed hands to Infinity/CBS, the Belmont site became a very robust aux facility for everything CBS had in the market - it can run 10 kW on either 670 or 780 for the current WSCR or for WBBM, and it can run the FM stations in the cluster if they have issues or tower work at Hancock or Sears. I think the former WSCR and WXRT studios in the building are still there as a backup for the main studios at Prudential Plaza, too.
AFAIK, Entercom/Audacy has maintained the Belmont site, which is rather more of a robust aux than they have in other markets; in New York and LA, the big ex-CBS AMs have on-site auxes but nothing off-site, and if they have any kind of off-site aux studios, I'm not aware of them.
Isn't it strange that "CBS" took over a facility that used to be "SBC"?
If WLS had taken over the WENR site in Downers Grove, it would have had a more commanding signal in the Northern Suburbs of Chicago, and WCFL probably wouldn't have lasted over 10 years as the "second" Top 40 AM in the market.
Here's the late Glen Clark's discussion of the technical battle between WLS and WCFL. Glen spent a few years as CE at WLS-FM and Staff Engineer at WLS before going back to Consulting Engineering and coming up with a multinode computer that quickly determined changes using doglegging of AM DA arrays to increase many former Class III facilities to as high as 50 kW. By steering the nulls asymmetrically, more power could be allowed than with the traditional linear and parallelogram arrays. When they first allowed 50 kW on Regionals, most DAs still used the tried and true parallelogram arrays, like WTMJ did. A dozen or so stations got to 20 to 25 kW Night with the dogleg asymmetric designs. Only four stations, KMJ, KJR, WWJ, and WXYT, were able to go to 50 kW full-time though. Some came close, with Night power in the 40 kW-50 kW Night range, but one of those has had to abandon those facilities. Glen also redesigned the WMVP array to allow some asymmetric null filling. While I think this may often be a mistake, several 50 kW AMs have recently given up high power due to acquiring rimshot Class A and Class B1/C3 FMs, and some with just 250 watt translators, which have frequency duplication well within the 50 kW AM service area, leading to listener confusion.
www.thebdr.net
Remember that WXRT had their 500 foot HAAT tower at the WSBC site for a while before moving to the Loop area, and had maintained an AUX there before the rest.
If WLS had taken over the WENR site in Downers Grove, it would have had a more commanding signal in the Northern Suburbs of Chicago, and WCFL probably wouldn't have lasted over 10 years as the "second" Top 40 AM in the market.
Here's the late Glen Clark's discussion of the technical battle between WLS and WCFL. Glen spent a few years as CE at WLS-FM and Staff Engineer at WLS before going back to Consulting Engineering and coming up with a multinode computer that quickly determined changes using doglegging of AM DA arrays to increase many former Class III facilities to as high as 50 kW. By steering the nulls asymmetrically, more power could be allowed than with the traditional linear and parallelogram arrays. When they first allowed 50 kW on Regionals, most DAs still used the tried and true parallelogram arrays, like WTMJ did. A dozen or so stations got to 20 to 25 kW Night with the dogleg asymmetric designs. Only four stations, KMJ, KJR, WWJ, and WXYT, were able to go to 50 kW full-time though. Some came close, with Night power in the 40 kW-50 kW Night range, but one of those has had to abandon those facilities. Glen also redesigned the WMVP array to allow some asymmetric null filling. While I think this may often be a mistake, several 50 kW AMs have recently given up high power due to acquiring rimshot Class A and Class B1/C3 FMs, and some with just 250 watt translators, which have frequency duplication well within the 50 kW AM service area, leading to listener confusion.
The Audio Prism Story
[June 2011] In the history of audio processing, the TEXAR Audio Prism holds its own place as one of the key tools in the arsenals of stations fighting to produce their “signature” sound and stand
www.thebdr.net
Remember that WXRT had their 500 foot HAAT tower at the WSBC site for a while before moving to the Loop area, and had maintained an AUX there before the rest.
I grew up less than two miles from that WSBC AM 1240 transmitter site in Chicago. I grew up over by the Superdawg on Milwaukee and Devon. I always remember looking at that transmitter site as a kid and wondering why it was built on top of a building and not built on the ground. Good memories!
Also, with regards to WMVP AM 1000 (post WCFL days), growing up as a kid in Chicago, I always thought that WMVP was the same kind of clear-channel station as WMAQ, WGN, WBBM and WLS. This is because of how strong a station it was and how I could hear it when I would travel with my family up to Hayward, Wisconsin in the summer and down to Florida in the winter. Back then, we would listen to the Chicago Bulls and Chicago White Sox games on WMVP while traveling. It wasn’t until I moved to Phoenix, Arizona in the 90’s and started DXing in earnest that I realized WMVP wasn’t the same sort of clear channel station as WGN, WLS, WMAQ and WBBM. I could log WLS, WGN, WMAQ (now WSCR) and WBBM to varying degrees of difficulty in Phoenix because they were 50,000 watts non-directional (with WGN and WBBM being the best of the bunch reception wise), but never WMVP. It was then that I realized KOMO 1000 from Seattle was the dominant clear channel along with XEOY in Mexico City. WMVP had to use a directional antenna to protect KOMO in Seattle and XEOY in Mexico City with a null that pointed straight at me in Arizona. To this day, I have not had any success in snagging WMVP from Chicago in Phoenix, Arizona or San Diego, California on my many DXing excursions.
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All three were the same Class, I-B, and KOMO also has to protect WCFL/WMVP at Night. The DA pattern concentrates the signal over Chicago and the older suburbs, and even the Night nulls didn't cause many problems until a lot of people moved out West of the towers.
I follow White Sox message boards and grumbling about WMVP's signal west of Downers Grove is a common theme. I've explained the long-time Class 1-B status with KOMO and the practical constraints on moving the site. Non-technical folks don't understand that since what they know is Wi-Fi, which is not geographically limited. It's too bad because WMVP has a great signal to the east of DG. That doesn't impress baseball fans who live to the west.
Also, WMVP's audio quality has deteriorated. It's metallic and harsh, and genuinely fatiguing to listen. I hope it's just an audio-chain setting issue they can correct. A-to-B comparision with WSCR or WGN (pushing buttons on the car radio) makes it obvious.
Also, WMVP's audio quality has deteriorated. It's metallic and harsh, and genuinely fatiguing to listen. I hope it's just an audio-chain setting issue they can correct. A-to-B comparision with WSCR or WGN (pushing buttons on the car radio) makes it obvious.
The White Sox used to have downstate stations in their network when they were previously on AM 1000. Don't know if they have any to the west of Chicago at night.
Thanks! Some of those should help listeners west and southwest. WMVP drops off big time at night west of Aurora.
I've mentioned it before but as close as Ogden Ave in Naperville, there is some severe phasing on WMVP. My cousin has even noted it but all I say is it's because the signal is directional east, which is why it's a blaster in Ohio each and every night barring an aurora.
I didn't realize WBIG carries the Sox, Bears and Bulls. I get the Sox now, but the others surprise me with the proximity to the omnidirectional 50K sticks. Wonder how the Chicago stations feel about having an affiliate so close. That's still their market really.
I didn't realize WBIG carries the Sox, Bears and Bulls. I get the Sox now, but the others surprise me with the proximity to the omnidirectional 50K sticks. Wonder how the Chicago stations feel about having an affiliate so close. That's still their market really.
I didn't know about the Bears and Bulls being on WBIG. I can understand the Sox with the signal problems to the west at night. The others are surprising being so close.
If these links work, it will show how the new null toward XEOY is deeper than the old null, and the new null toward KOMO is shallower than the old null. The null toward XEOY is the one generally toward Naperville.
Here is the new 0.025 mV/m 10% skywave, where the deep null protects a large arc toward Mexico, and the shallower null protects KOMO. The old pattern was theoretically symmetrical due to the linear arrangement of the towers. The new pattern is asymmetric due to the dogleg arrangement of the towers.
Here is the new 0.025 mV/m 10% skywave, where the deep null protects a large arc toward Mexico, and the shallower null protects KOMO. The old pattern was theoretically symmetrical due to the linear arrangement of the towers. The new pattern is asymmetric due to the dogleg arrangement of the towers.
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Can we close this
Going off topic
Going off topic
That's nothing...There's at least 3 Tennessee Titans affiliates within earshot of the 100,000 watt blowtorch flagship station.
1450's status is still up in the air. We don't know if the WCEV time will go to WRLL or not. (And we do meander a bit around here, if you haven't noticed. Plus I've learned a few things. Learning is good.)
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