Trying to get Canadaigua's AM 1550 and 1570 in Dundee in Brockport can be a hassle. So how well does the Finger Lakes Radio Network serve the region with dreadful signals? From their schedule it appears they do have both morning and afternoon local news blocks(always a good) and Dr. Laura, and curiously enough Savage Nation and Coast to Coast, which probably sound better on WHAM.
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WCGR/WFLR
- Thread starter dustintv
- Start date
Brockport ain't exactly the core of the market that the Finger Lakes News Network is trying to serve.
No, WCGR doesn't bring a lot to the table in terms of coverage (though it's just fine in Canandaigua), but WGVA blankets most of Ontario County and a good chunk of Seneca, WAUB covers Cayuga County just fine, and WFLR is a solid Yates/Schuyler signal.
I can't hear WBSU here in Brighton, either - that doesn't mean it's not a good Brockport signal, does it?
No, WCGR doesn't bring a lot to the table in terms of coverage (though it's just fine in Canandaigua), but WGVA blankets most of Ontario County and a good chunk of Seneca, WAUB covers Cayuga County just fine, and WFLR is a solid Yates/Schuyler signal.
I can't hear WBSU here in Brighton, either - that doesn't mean it's not a good Brockport signal, does it?
Actually, WBSU is working exactly the way it's designed to - it's got a rather tight directional pattern that throws very little signal south and east. That was part of the tradeoff when WBSU upgraded from 88.9 to 89.1 some years back and boosted power - it went DA, clearing the way for Family Life's 88.9 Canandaigua signal (atop Bristol Mountain) and Mars Hill's 89.3 in Webster.
I can hear WBSU just fine here with the rooftop antenna; it doesn't exist in the car until I get west of downtown. The coverage map on radio-locator.com is quite close to correct, in this case:
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WBSU&service=FM&status=L&hours=U
Getting back to the question at hand: it's probably fair to say that Finger Lakes News Network does about the best it can under the circumstances. I vividly remember spending summers in Yates County in the early 80s, listening to live and local programming all over the dial - WGVA and WECQ from Geneva, WQKA from Penn Yan, WSFW AM/FM in Seneca Falls, WFLR AM/FM in Dundee, WPCX and WMBO from Auburn, WGMF from Watkins Glen, and on and on. Those days have passed...too many new signals from Rochester and Syracuse and drop-in FMs in places like Waterloo competing for a diminishing audience. FLNN does a decent local morning show, and reasonable amounts of local news the rest of the day. They've tried to keep at least some semblance of local presence in Dundee and Auburn, instead of feeding them totally out of Geneva.
It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than nothing...and much better, from a local standpoint, than the signals that have ended up as Rochester or Syracuse rimshotters.
I can hear WBSU just fine here with the rooftop antenna; it doesn't exist in the car until I get west of downtown. The coverage map on radio-locator.com is quite close to correct, in this case:
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WBSU&service=FM&status=L&hours=U
Getting back to the question at hand: it's probably fair to say that Finger Lakes News Network does about the best it can under the circumstances. I vividly remember spending summers in Yates County in the early 80s, listening to live and local programming all over the dial - WGVA and WECQ from Geneva, WQKA from Penn Yan, WSFW AM/FM in Seneca Falls, WFLR AM/FM in Dundee, WPCX and WMBO from Auburn, WGMF from Watkins Glen, and on and on. Those days have passed...too many new signals from Rochester and Syracuse and drop-in FMs in places like Waterloo competing for a diminishing audience. FLNN does a decent local morning show, and reasonable amounts of local news the rest of the day. They've tried to keep at least some semblance of local presence in Dundee and Auburn, instead of feeding them totally out of Geneva.
It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than nothing...and much better, from a local standpoint, than the signals that have ended up as Rochester or Syracuse rimshotters.
Scott Fybush said:
If you think WBSU's signal is bad you should have been around when WADD was on the air. That station had by far the worst signal pattern ever. I remember being in Spencerport, which is just five miles down the road, and still couldn't hear the station. Most of the signal went right into the lake.
As for WGVA, I could pick them up in my car radio, just faintly, and the same goes for WCGR.
I always thought that WCGR was a non-essential part of the FLNN network, especially with WGVA covering the same area with a decent signal.
If they ever had to spin off any of their stations, my guess is WCGR would be at the top of the list. Maybe they should donate the license to an educational institution like FLCC, or some other local non-profit agency. That would restore local radio to Canandaigua.
Or, perhaps a group of local investors could put up the cash needed to buy the station. This has been done before. I wonder what the going rate is for a 250-watt daytimer in a small market would be these days.
If they ever had to spin off any of their stations, my guess is WCGR would be at the top of the list. Maybe they should donate the license to an educational institution like FLCC, or some other local non-profit agency. That would restore local radio to Canandaigua.
Or, perhaps a group of local investors could put up the cash needed to buy the station. This has been done before. I wonder what the going rate is for a 250-watt daytimer in a small market would be these days.
JakeLongwell said:
As long as one of the Kimble brothers owns WCGR it will remain in the family because their father founded that station many years ago.
I agree that WGVA's signal far surpasses WCGR; but in this case I just don't see *George or Russ selling the station their father started. * I have no idea which one of the brothers owns WCGR, I believe it's just George, but I might be wrong.
Yes. George Kimble owns WCGR. However, I don't think the station has always been "in the family".
I seem to recall the entry for the station in an old radio directory I saw from the early 90s, when it was paired with 102.3 FM, in its days as new age/jazz WLKA. If memory serves me correctly, the owner listed for the station was something called "Finger Lakes Communications" and there was no mention at all of either George or Russ Kimble in the staff listings.
I'm guessing George Kimble bought the stations a few years later, changing the FM to a hot AC, and keeping the AM a full service community station.
I guess it could be argued that there is some sentimental value in retaining WCGR, but, I sitll contend that, if they had a chance to acquire another signal in the market, (like 107.3 in South Bristol, or even bringing 102.3 back into the fold), they would sell off the little AM station, or even donate it and use it as a tax write-off.
Of course, this is all hypothetical, and will probably never happen.
I seem to recall the entry for the station in an old radio directory I saw from the early 90s, when it was paired with 102.3 FM, in its days as new age/jazz WLKA. If memory serves me correctly, the owner listed for the station was something called "Finger Lakes Communications" and there was no mention at all of either George or Russ Kimble in the staff listings.
I'm guessing George Kimble bought the stations a few years later, changing the FM to a hot AC, and keeping the AM a full service community station.
I guess it could be argued that there is some sentimental value in retaining WCGR, but, I sitll contend that, if they had a chance to acquire another signal in the market, (like 107.3 in South Bristol, or even bringing 102.3 back into the fold), they would sell off the little AM station, or even donate it and use it as a tax write-off.
Of course, this is all hypothetical, and will probably never happen.
JakeLongwell said:
To the best of my knowledge, the Kimble family has always owned WCGR. Now I might be wrong, but I don’t think so.
B
Bob1370
Guest
"To the best of my knowledge, the Kimble family has always owned WCGR. Now I might be wrong, but I don’t think so."
I think you're right. I remember back in the 1960s at sunset sign-off, they always said just before the national anthem, "This is WCGR Canandaigua, a living memorial to the late Wes Kimble." (Guess the late Wes was the family patriarch who put the little station on the air; I believe it first signed on back around 1959 or 1960.)
I think you're right. I remember back in the 1960s at sunset sign-off, they always said just before the national anthem, "This is WCGR Canandaigua, a living memorial to the late Wes Kimble." (Guess the late Wes was the family patriarch who put the little station on the air; I believe it first signed on back around 1959 or 1960.)
Very interesting. You gentlemen know more about the history of the market than I, so I guess I stand corrected on my assumptions about the station.
I think my assumptions came from the chages I observed listening to the FM station (102.3). I really liked the jazz on WLKA, and when they changed to Hot AC, I just figured there was a change in ownership, hence a format change. But the format change could have been implamented by a new station manager, or, perhaps by Mr. Kimble himself.
Another possibility is that the FM was under separate ownsership in its WLKA days. But I am sure they were using the same building as WCGR, as I remember the 3070 Townline Road mailing address mentioned frequently on the station.
Too bad we don't have any ex WCGR/WLKA staffers on this board who were there at the time in question. They could clear up this mystery I'm sure.
I think my assumptions came from the chages I observed listening to the FM station (102.3). I really liked the jazz on WLKA, and when they changed to Hot AC, I just figured there was a change in ownership, hence a format change. But the format change could have been implamented by a new station manager, or, perhaps by Mr. Kimble himself.
Another possibility is that the FM was under separate ownsership in its WLKA days. But I am sure they were using the same building as WCGR, as I remember the 3070 Townline Road mailing address mentioned frequently on the station.
Too bad we don't have any ex WCGR/WLKA staffers on this board who were there at the time in question. They could clear up this mystery I'm sure.
JakeLongwell said:
The best person to contact is Scott Fybush. He knows everything about the local media.
(Including where the bodies are buried) ;D
Did some checking and it is true that the Kimble family, or at least George, still owns WCGR. George also owns WGVA in Geneva while his brother Russ owns the FM station in that city. Russ also owns the station in Penn Yan. How the rest of the stations are operated, I have no idea.
S
slickkicker
Guest
The only contact I ever had with the Kimble's was with Russ at WCGR/WFLC. This was probably 1984 and as I recall they were thinking about getting out of the business back then. Both signals were awful and the influence of Rochester stations were having an impact. Russ was selling the stations under a new ownership group and, I think, the Kimble's eventually bought back there interests.
At the time two things struck me. One was that WFLC-FM 102.3 had a signal that was sitting in a swamp with an HAAT that was far below the local terrain. It shared the WCGR-AM tower. The second thing that grabbed me was that the Kimble's had alot of influence within the community, especially with the local Chamber of Commerce. As I recall some investors bought into the stations, started having some issues and got Russ back on board to help sell time.
And a third thing. They were always pretty cheap. 102.3 was a wasted opportunity that sat in the swamp.
At the time two things struck me. One was that WFLC-FM 102.3 had a signal that was sitting in a swamp with an HAAT that was far below the local terrain. It shared the WCGR-AM tower. The second thing that grabbed me was that the Kimble's had alot of influence within the community, especially with the local Chamber of Commerce. As I recall some investors bought into the stations, started having some issues and got Russ back on board to help sell time.
And a third thing. They were always pretty cheap. 102.3 was a wasted opportunity that sat in the swamp.
Buying a small market radio station can be a precarious proposition. The goodwill and clientele from the previous owners can evaporate quickly if the new owner doesn't get to know the locals and become involved in the Lions, Kiwanis or Rotary Clubs. It helps to LIVE in or at least within spitting distance of the community of license.
Years ago, I worked for a guy who thought he was going to come into the market and "show 'em how it's done." Big mistake. He alienated a lot of businessmen and women and the billing and stations' reputations suffered. It took the stations years to regroup, thanks to the help of an established local sales manager who undid a lot of the damage.
On the other end of the spectrum, I worked with another guy at a different station who was flush with cash and owned a BMW, but he always drove a Chevy Impala four door sedan that was a year or two old and in impeccable condition when he went to the station and visited clients. Smart move. When he got to know the lay of the land, he went to the station's biggest car dealer client and bought, not traded-out, a new Chevy Impala. The BMW only came out of the garage on weekends and mostly in the summer. This guy had a great attitude about selling in a small-medium market. He never wore fancy suits, but always dressed well. He used to joke, "Dress well and make yourself presentable, but never dress better than the local undertaker."
Years ago, I worked for a guy who thought he was going to come into the market and "show 'em how it's done." Big mistake. He alienated a lot of businessmen and women and the billing and stations' reputations suffered. It took the stations years to regroup, thanks to the help of an established local sales manager who undid a lot of the damage.
On the other end of the spectrum, I worked with another guy at a different station who was flush with cash and owned a BMW, but he always drove a Chevy Impala four door sedan that was a year or two old and in impeccable condition when he went to the station and visited clients. Smart move. When he got to know the lay of the land, he went to the station's biggest car dealer client and bought, not traded-out, a new Chevy Impala. The BMW only came out of the garage on weekends and mostly in the summer. This guy had a great attitude about selling in a small-medium market. He never wore fancy suits, but always dressed well. He used to joke, "Dress well and make yourself presentable, but never dress better than the local undertaker."
Too bad we don't have any ex WCGR/WLKA staffers on this board who were there at the time in question. They could clear up this mystery I'm sure.
That would be me! I worked there for a short time (thankfully)in the mid 80's. I had been injured and on the sidelines for a while and I thought it would be fun to resume my radio career on a small station. It was not fun. At the time the station was owned by a business man (Al ?)and his wife from Greece (N.Y.). They were very nice but knew NOTHING about the radio biz. The Kimball's held the mortgage and part of the deal was Russ Kimball kept his job as news director at a huge yearly salary. At the time the AM was a mish mash of oldies and whatever anyone wanted to play. The FM was Drake Chenault automated country. The new owners were convienced to switch the FM to the jazz format by staff memebers when WBEE came on. I think it probably turned out to be a bad decision because they finally had to return the stations to the Kimballs. That happened after I left for WBEE.
By the way, when I worked there the FM tower was on a hill to the Northwest of the station. It had half a tower. I remember there was some problem with a guide wire being too close to a neighboring house and that was why they couldn't go higher. I have only breifly met George Kimball but knew Russ pretty well back then. I always enjoyed his very "dry" humor. He is a radio guy.
That would be me! I worked there for a short time (thankfully)in the mid 80's. I had been injured and on the sidelines for a while and I thought it would be fun to resume my radio career on a small station. It was not fun. At the time the station was owned by a business man (Al ?)and his wife from Greece (N.Y.). They were very nice but knew NOTHING about the radio biz. The Kimball's held the mortgage and part of the deal was Russ Kimball kept his job as news director at a huge yearly salary. At the time the AM was a mish mash of oldies and whatever anyone wanted to play. The FM was Drake Chenault automated country. The new owners were convienced to switch the FM to the jazz format by staff memebers when WBEE came on. I think it probably turned out to be a bad decision because they finally had to return the stations to the Kimballs. That happened after I left for WBEE.
By the way, when I worked there the FM tower was on a hill to the Northwest of the station. It had half a tower. I remember there was some problem with a guide wire being too close to a neighboring house and that was why they couldn't go higher. I have only breifly met George Kimball but knew Russ pretty well back then. I always enjoyed his very "dry" humor. He is a radio guy.
S
slickkicker
Guest
Yeah now I remember! Russ was hosting the trade show program on WCGR-AM for a couple of hours from, I beleive, 10 till Noon. And I recall this guy who bought into CGR/FLC, and I think his name was Al and, if I recall, he used to sell WVOR.
And I'll second another post here. Russ was getting a big check at the new owners expense back then. Some money comes to town, full of enthusiasm, bails the station blah, blah, blah and then ....
Like I've said there signal sat in a swamp.
And I'll second another post here. Russ was getting a big check at the new owners expense back then. Some money comes to town, full of enthusiasm, bails the station blah, blah, blah and then ....
Like I've said there signal sat in a swamp.
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