http://newsblog.projo.com/2011/06/classical-radio-to-return-to-r.html
Classical returns to RI...WGBH All Classical that is
Classical returns to RI...WGBH All Classical that is
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WCRB to simulcast on RI station, 88.7
- Thread starter raccoonradio
- Start date
This was mentioned on RI board too--and there's something about it being an HD-2 channel? Thought it was the reg. signal
See their site http://www.wjmf887.com/
>>Almost like Platform 9 ¾, WJMF will basically be between 88.7 & 88.9
You mean like the train that goes to Hogwart's in Harry Potter...?
>>Watt does this mean to you the listener?
Poor spelling or a pun?
See their site http://www.wjmf887.com/
>>Almost like Platform 9 ¾, WJMF will basically be between 88.7 & 88.9
You mean like the train that goes to Hogwart's in Harry Potter...?
>>Watt does this mean to you the listener?
Poor spelling or a pun?
Yeah, classical music is the hottest format for college students. They'll love dancing to Beethoven and Mozart.
College stations should be student run and professionally advised. Students aren't going to learn much sitting behind the board watching a satellite feed and being bored out of their minds, both by the music and by the fact they're doing nothing. It'll only be exciting when they have to clean the snow out of the satellite dish if the feed goes out during a snowstorm.
College stations should be student run and professionally advised. Students aren't going to learn much sitting behind the board watching a satellite feed and being bored out of their minds, both by the music and by the fact they're doing nothing. It'll only be exciting when they have to clean the snow out of the satellite dish if the feed goes out during a snowstorm.
Nick, I couldn't have said it better myself. So, allow me just 1 smart-ass comment: "getting bored behind the board what they have to look forward to in the real world!"
I do think the college station should be more than just college kids playing D.J. tho. It could be a great P.R. tool for the school. They can also air athletics events as well as guest lectures. My old college station did that.
I do think the college station should be more than just college kids playing D.J. tho. It could be a great P.R. tool for the school. They can also air athletics events as well as guest lectures. My old college station did that.
yeah guess they mean the classical goes on their main signal and what WJMF is now running goes to an HD-2
Why not just have it the other way around? The student station on HD1 and classical on HD2 (and on HD1 at the times there's no student programming). The people who are devoted to classical music will buy an HD radio to hear it. If they're paying hundreds to become a member of WGBH, surely they'll pay $50 for an HD radio.Peter Q. George (K1XRB) said:
Money talks.
Didn't something like this happen in San Fran Bay area: rock station moved to classical station's freq...classical station to a college station's freq, and the college station died on terrestrial?
(online only)
>>A spokesman for the University of San Francisco said KUSF will continue as an online-only station.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-01-19/news/27036371_1_classical-stations-classical-music-fm
Didn't something like this happen in San Fran Bay area: rock station moved to classical station's freq...classical station to a college station's freq, and the college station died on terrestrial?
(online only)
>>A spokesman for the University of San Francisco said KUSF will continue as an online-only station.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-01-19/news/27036371_1_classical-stations-classical-music-fm
Does the 88.7 licsense still belong to Bryant College or did GBH buy it and part of the deal is the HD-2 , DTV Mobile , and Internet?
Also, any ideas is DTV Mobile something that may benefit WMFO, WMBR, WBRS or WZBC in the future to be a part of?
Any ideas how much bandwidth WJFM will get, 48 ,64 or 96 kbps?
Also, any ideas is DTV Mobile something that may benefit WMFO, WMBR, WBRS or WZBC in the future to be a part of?
Any ideas how much bandwidth WJFM will get, 48 ,64 or 96 kbps?
Money talks, but it's silent...or at least quiet...in this case. The press release on Bryant's website said that WGBH was not making any "capital expenditures" in this deal. I can't be sure, but I would read that to mean that WGBH is not paying to build out the CP, nor are they buying the license outright; Bryant will pay for both.
I have said elsewhere that I find this development somewhat surprising. To my mind, this is a lopsided deal that benefits WGBH a lot and Bryant not very much. I'm told Bryant has a serious communication curriculum, and they did recently (2005-06) spend some pretty serious cash to rebuild WJMF's studios...and those studios were neither old nor weak to begin with. Student involvement in WJMF seems fairly high, and while WJMF's original/existing signal is kinda weak and is a "rimshot" into Providence at best...their new CP is a solid Providence signal that also covers most of northern Rhode Island. (which WCRI does not, by the way...since it's way out on Block Island...and WCRI is O&O by a different company; AFAIK they run a different flavor of classical than the WGBH-controlled WCRB does)
Most surprising is that, allegedly, Rhode Island Public Radio (WRNI) quietly approached Bryant about a partnership just a few years ago. Again, allegedly, the visceral negative reaction from the student & alumni bodies was enough to scuttle it almost before it began. Why would that suddenly change so much?
If there were a substantial capital investment, or a paid LMA, then that would make more sense...colleges everywhere are facing budget crunches. It kinda bites the big one, but it's understandable. This just puzzles me. I have to think there's SOMEthing else going on behind the scenes that's not being made public. (and, quite possibly, is perfectly justifiably not being made public)
Well, first of all, the students are going to be doing the same thing in the studio they've always been doing. The only difference is they'll be saying "WJMF-HD2 Smithfield" for their Legal ID's. They're not going to be minding the satellite feed; there's no need - it can all be automated.
As for the sentiment that college stations should always be student run and professionally advised, I wholeheartedly call horsepuckies on that. I've worked in college radio since 1994, and with precious few exceptions, the truly student-run stations are the worst of the lot. Poor equipment, poor operations, lousy training, and no connection to the student or local communities. Plus a "learning environment" that teaches little, and virtually all it teaches are things that haven't been true in the real world for almost 15 years. There are exceptions...WREK in Atlanta comes immediately to mind, there's probably others...but the definite majority fail miserably on achieving the sepia-toned dream that many think "college radio" still is.
In my experience, most of the best-run college radio stations have one or two professionals who are unequivocally "in charge" and they manage a crew of student managers. The very best also usually have a strong course curriculum (either broadcasting or journalism) at the parent college to provide the basic learning that the station then provides the framework to apply the learned knowledge in. And by virtue of that latter point, usually the best don't have many (if any) community volunteers. WERS and WBSU come immediately to mind...although I know there are others I just can't remember off the top of my head. (note that I would not put my own station, WHWS, in that category....I think WHWS does a good job for what its purpose is - to be a fun student activity - but I have no illusions that it's a "waste" of spectrum to use an LPFM for that purpose. That's, in part, why we run so much satellite programming in the mornings.)
I'm not saying that other stations aren't good in other ways. And some who are "bad" by my definition still have a substantial audience...usually because they produce a quality radio product and they have the benefit of being in areas of larger population, where the law of averages works in their favor with a niche format. WMBR and WHRB come immediately to mind on that front. KUSF did before the sell-off, too.
Getting back to WJMF, I think if the students are serious about learning how to be broadcasters so they'll be prepared when they have to go out and try and find a job after four years, then this deal will have no impact on that. With the proper framework of studio equipment and operations, they could learn everything they need to learn with no transmitter at all. At least with this setup, they CAN be heard on the HD2 channel. At least in theory. Realistically, these days so many college students have no radio receiver of any kind that what matters more...a LOT more...is the webcast.
If the goal is to indulge the student DJ's egos by having them think the entire state of Rhode Island is listening to their show every week, then this deal will fail miserably in that regard. But methinks that's not what the goal is.
:
I have said elsewhere that I find this development somewhat surprising. To my mind, this is a lopsided deal that benefits WGBH a lot and Bryant not very much. I'm told Bryant has a serious communication curriculum, and they did recently (2005-06) spend some pretty serious cash to rebuild WJMF's studios...and those studios were neither old nor weak to begin with. Student involvement in WJMF seems fairly high, and while WJMF's original/existing signal is kinda weak and is a "rimshot" into Providence at best...their new CP is a solid Providence signal that also covers most of northern Rhode Island. (which WCRI does not, by the way...since it's way out on Block Island...and WCRI is O&O by a different company; AFAIK they run a different flavor of classical than the WGBH-controlled WCRB does)
Most surprising is that, allegedly, Rhode Island Public Radio (WRNI) quietly approached Bryant about a partnership just a few years ago. Again, allegedly, the visceral negative reaction from the student & alumni bodies was enough to scuttle it almost before it began. Why would that suddenly change so much?
If there were a substantial capital investment, or a paid LMA, then that would make more sense...colleges everywhere are facing budget crunches. It kinda bites the big one, but it's understandable. This just puzzles me. I have to think there's SOMEthing else going on behind the scenes that's not being made public. (and, quite possibly, is perfectly justifiably not being made public)
Well, first of all, the students are going to be doing the same thing in the studio they've always been doing. The only difference is they'll be saying "WJMF-HD2 Smithfield" for their Legal ID's. They're not going to be minding the satellite feed; there's no need - it can all be automated.
As for the sentiment that college stations should always be student run and professionally advised, I wholeheartedly call horsepuckies on that. I've worked in college radio since 1994, and with precious few exceptions, the truly student-run stations are the worst of the lot. Poor equipment, poor operations, lousy training, and no connection to the student or local communities. Plus a "learning environment" that teaches little, and virtually all it teaches are things that haven't been true in the real world for almost 15 years. There are exceptions...WREK in Atlanta comes immediately to mind, there's probably others...but the definite majority fail miserably on achieving the sepia-toned dream that many think "college radio" still is.
In my experience, most of the best-run college radio stations have one or two professionals who are unequivocally "in charge" and they manage a crew of student managers. The very best also usually have a strong course curriculum (either broadcasting or journalism) at the parent college to provide the basic learning that the station then provides the framework to apply the learned knowledge in. And by virtue of that latter point, usually the best don't have many (if any) community volunteers. WERS and WBSU come immediately to mind...although I know there are others I just can't remember off the top of my head. (note that I would not put my own station, WHWS, in that category....I think WHWS does a good job for what its purpose is - to be a fun student activity - but I have no illusions that it's a "waste" of spectrum to use an LPFM for that purpose. That's, in part, why we run so much satellite programming in the mornings.)
I'm not saying that other stations aren't good in other ways. And some who are "bad" by my definition still have a substantial audience...usually because they produce a quality radio product and they have the benefit of being in areas of larger population, where the law of averages works in their favor with a niche format. WMBR and WHRB come immediately to mind on that front. KUSF did before the sell-off, too.
Getting back to WJMF, I think if the students are serious about learning how to be broadcasters so they'll be prepared when they have to go out and try and find a job after four years, then this deal will have no impact on that. With the proper framework of studio equipment and operations, they could learn everything they need to learn with no transmitter at all. At least with this setup, they CAN be heard on the HD2 channel. At least in theory. Realistically, these days so many college students have no radio receiver of any kind that what matters more...a LOT more...is the webcast.
If the goal is to indulge the student DJ's egos by having them think the entire state of Rhode Island is listening to their show every week, then this deal will fail miserably in that regard. But methinks that's not what the goal is.
:
Ah crap, the time limit expired on modifying my post. Well, toss out everything I said...the Providence R-I board had the key bit of info I didn't realize: the CP was going to expire on June 3rd. A PTA & LTC apps were filed on June 2nd.
I haven't seen official confirmation of it, but I *have* to think Bryant cut a deal with WGBH to get the CP on the air before it expired. Remember, a lot of colleges are understandably hurting financially at the moment; many use a three-year rolling average to determine the annual dividend off their endowment, that means the worst effects of the 2008-2009 Recession are hitting right now. Building out a DA pattern on a real tower is not cheap!
I haven't seen official confirmation of it, but I *have* to think Bryant cut a deal with WGBH to get the CP on the air before it expired. Remember, a lot of colleges are understandably hurting financially at the moment; many use a three-year rolling average to determine the annual dividend off their endowment, that means the worst effects of the 2008-2009 Recession are hitting right now. Building out a DA pattern on a real tower is not cheap!
L
Laurence Glavin
Guest
aaronread said:
As I noted at the B.R.I.G., the WJMF antenna that's scheduled to be used with the new facilities appears to be VERY directional because of the 88.5s all over the place and WMEX-FM in Edgartown. One document put out by WGBH I believe displays an almost circular coverage area, and radio-locator.com is pretty close to a circle. Are nulls in FM DAs as noticeable as the nulls on AM where the station nearly disappears or sounds like a shortwave station with fading.
Laurence Glavin said:
The technologies and methods are different for AM and FM directional antennas.
AM directional antenna systems (and shortwave systems) use multiple towers phased against each other in the null direction(s), and phased with each other in the prime direction(s). That (and atmospheric phenomena) is what causes the phase distortion and fading in the "nulls".
FM directionals don't use multiple towers or phasing. They just have elements on the antenna with custom shapes and positioning that send more power in some directions, less in others, but no phasing. In the "null" of a directional FM, usually you'll just hear a weaker signal, but without all the other artifacts that accompany a directional AM, though there may be an increase in multipath distortion (reflected signals) in an FM null.
Also FWIW, you can't have an FM null greater than -15dB front-to-back ratio, and you can't have more than +/- 2dB change per 10 degrees of azimuth...the FCC won't accept it if you try. That tends to mean there's a limit on how sharp a null can be.
I don't know all that much about the engineering behind AM DA patterns, but I don't think AM has anything like those restrictions...?
I don't know all that much about the engineering behind AM DA patterns, but I don't think AM has anything like those restrictions...?
aaronread said:
In certain situations, the FCC may grant a waiver on that. I recall that when WMFO (Tufts University) went from 10 watts omnidirectional to 125 watts directional in the early '80s, the FCC made them apply for a waiver of the limitation of how sharp a null can be, in order to comply with the radically directional pattern that they told them was necessary to raise their power. Sort of a "Catch-22", but they did it.
I don't know their specific dB ratios, but I saw documented in their engineering file that they put out 125 watts ERP maximum to the east, but only something like 2 watts ERP to the west. They actually covered better to the west and southwest when they were 10 watts (which was 18 ERP).
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