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WCRS-LP/WCRX-LP timeshare

knowbetter said:
I realize that the "business of radio" doesn't lend itself to change.

Embracing the "business of radio" can reduce the fronts one must fight on. The complete upending of the status quo is quite a prerequisite for the success of a project.

My take is: commercial radio is about the commercials and non-commercial radio is about the commercials underwriting/fundraising.

"Selling" a program is less about the program than about the dollars and how they look. Costs versus revenue. New advertisers and ad dollars versus competing/diluting the existing contracts/inventory.
 
teched said:
jakej said:
I spent a lot of years trying to persuade virtually every commercial outfit in this town that had at least one station in the lower half of the ratings to give my "Yesterday's Top Secrets" concept a chance, either as a daily show or as an entire format, and it was a unanimous thumbs down, usually immediately.

Why did you you limit yourself to the lower half of the ratings?

I just assumed that everyone in the upper half would be more satisfied with where they were at ratingswise and would be less likely to want to change anything, whereas someone, surely SOMEONE in the lower half (particularly those at or very near the cellar) would be tired of being down there quarter after quarter after quarter after quarter and would be much more willing to want to try something different. It all seemed like common sense to me -- but what I didn't realize at the time was that this is an industry that doesn't believe in common sense.

teched said:
jakej said:
I also checked with our local noncommercial outfits as well, and the result was always the same. So to suggest that these options are available for any or all of the discontinued programs on WCRS is to me a very laughable proposition.

I am not so eager to deny the possibility of opportunity for other programs based solely upon the difficulties of marketing a single program.

Evaluating the options for moving on/over/up aught not be limited to displaced programs. I also am not going to deny that a producer can be satisfied with their current market/exposure/reach, whatever it might be.

Should any producer be looking for "more" I encourage them to think beyond the traditional AM/FM. Look at subcarriers, subchannels, satellite in its varied forms, internet and beyond. Community can go beyond the traditions of geography, culture or lifestyle.

Well I'm not looking for more; I'm very happy with how things stand right now with "Yesterday's Top Secrets". You may be right, maybe someone else's program would have a chance of being given an opportunity on some other Columbus station, an opportunity that was repeatedly denied to mine by so many, but I kind of doubt it. These people at the other stations, or at least those people who were at those stations back when I was shopping the show/format around (a lot of whom seem to be gone now, for some strange reason!), are idiots.

teched said:
jakej said:
Fortunately, just about the only shows that have been now dropped by WCRS have been syndicated talk ones; I don't think any of the local music programs have been axed -- thank you, 'CRS, very good decision on that.

Is there a difference between a "program of local music" and a "music program hosted by a local"?

Sorry about that, teched; what I meant to write is that none of the locally-produced music shows on 'CRS have been axed. (Many of them completely or partially consist of local music, but not all, so "locally-produced" would have been a better choice of words.)
 
And I've never identified them before, but I'm gonna do it now because they're all worth knowing about and checking out. In addition to my own, the locally-produced music shows now airing on WCRS are: "Agit Radio", "Beat Oracle", "Local Pop", "Musicologie", "Pamoja FM", "Shark Week", "SoHud Sound", "Steam Room", "World Party", and "Your Music". The schedule can be found at http://wcrsfm.org/ourschedule.
 
Ok..everyone who would not program a format of 100% stiffs with zero familiarity to anyone was an idiot. They should have taken on faith with no track record to back it up that there's a 20 share in B sides and album filler. If you say so.
 
gr8oldies said:
Ok..everyone who would not program a format of 100% stiffs with zero familiarity to anyone was an idiot. They should have taken on faith with no track record to back it up that there's a 20 share in B sides and album filler. If you say so.

LOL...

I think that it is interesting that you clearly now seem to understand both sides of the story!

On one hand, there are a whole bunch of radio folks, most who seem to really hate radio, but really have a whole bunch to say about it. On the other, a group that really seems to understand what they want to do, that is being held back by the other folks.

I really can't seem to understand why these two groups don't get along. From what I can tell, they both want similar programming, and have similar thoughts, but they can't seem to get past the individual personalties involved. The biggest seems to be a lack of trust to even begin to work together, so the entire thing is destined to fail.

I guess, if I could make a point to all parties involved, I would have to ask, what is the goal, and what do they all want to accomplish. It seems to me, that if someone had spent 10 years getting on the air, they wouldn't piss it all away by doing really stupid things, and not co-operate to get the thing going right.

I would think the goal, is great community radio in Columbus, that way, jakej and his buddies get their shows, and all the other great programming finally makes it on the air. That's my goal at least, as you may have figured out, I do have contacts with at least one side of this equation.

Seems pointless to me to change my goal to destroying community radio in Columbus, but if that's the only way to save it??
 
gr8oldies said:
Ok..everyone who would not program a format of 100% stiffs with zero familiarity to anyone was an idiot. They should have taken on faith with no track record to back it up that there's a 20 share in B sides and album filler. If you say so.

Album filler? Every song on a band's album is either a big hit or pure filler? There's no in between? It's either Top 40 material, or else it's a "stiff"?
And zero familiarity? Since I know getting you to listen to one of my archived shows may be an impossibility, please simply take a minute to look over those top-ten lists of mine on page 2 of this topic again. And let's start with the oldies list, gr8oldies -- The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Who, The Carpenters, The Supremes, The Byrds, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Jefferson Airplane, The Rolling Stones, and The Zombies. Do you really think that people who like any or all of those bands are gonna turn off the show when they hear one of them come on with a song that they haven't previously heard on their radio a million times?
And while you may not be as up on many of the groups in my alternative top-ten-bands-played-so-far-on-the-show list, a lot of other people are, and they equally appreciate hearing some of those groups' lesser-known tunes as well.
Plus, if you were to pick one of my archived episodes at random and listen to its full hour, you'd more than likely hear at least two or three numbers that WERE hits to some degree back in their day (although I know that this may not matter to you, as you may not be satisfied with hearing nothing less than fifteen or sixteen tunes of that nature in that hour -- which is what oldies stations have been trying and failing with for years now).
The radio stations that I contacted were all generally at or below a 2.0 12+ share, some as low as, well, somewhere between 0.0 and 0.5. I shouldn't have had to dangle a 20 share in front of any of them, and I never did. Some of them would have been thrilled with a 1.0, so I knew that I didn't have to promise anyone the moon and I didn't. What I promised them all instead was a strong chance of improvement, both in their ratings and in their revenues, which they all basically decided they weren't interested in, and I was figuratively or literally shown the door. And that, gr8oldies, is idiocy in my book.
 
It doesn't matter what I personally do or don't like. It's what a radio station is playing the very instant a listener tunes in. I'm sure everyone you talked to wanted to see improvement. However, all unfamiliar all the time has never worked, or it would be being done. No one is going to put their job and station on the line to let you play.
The recurring theme everywhere on Radio-Info is that everyone who makes a living in radio is clueless and if only they threw obscure titles on the air the listeners would flock. Just plug my iPod into the transmitter and you'll be number one. In dreamland.
 
As I wrote before, it's not all unfamiliar all the time. Maybe I should change the name of the show to "Yesterday's Top Secrets Except For A Few". But for the sake of argument, exactly how many times has all unfamiliar all the time been tried? Definitely never in this town, which was the home of my nationally and internationally-acclaimed music fanzine, The Offense.
And they should have put their job on the line to let me play, because if they had, they'd still have it today!
 
jakej said:
As I wrote before, it's not all unfamiliar all the time. Maybe I should change the name of the show to "Yesterday's Top Secrets Except For A Few". But for the sake of argument, exactly how many times has all unfamiliar all the time been tried? Definitely never in this town, which was the home of my nationally and internationally-acclaimed music fanzine, The Offense.
And they should have put their job on the line to let me play, because if they had, they'd still have it today!

again, nobody is going to take a chance with really niche programming, which is why LPFM has opened doors to a lot of people, and especially in a city the size of Columbus. This is why I am so concerned over the licesness now being unable to get the station on full time. Lets assume somenone new comes in, and all they want to do is christian, rap, or religion...
 
gr8oldies said:
No, they would have gotten a 0.0 share and been fired.

Just as an aside let me remind you that this is Columbus, where you can pull one of the few good signals down to the depths of the ratings (e.g. 99.7 or 93.3) and still not have to worry about job security.
 
What is the future of the WCRS-LP/WCRX-LP timeshare agreement? Will both parties ever come to an agreement on how to divide the 24 hour clock among
them? Talks have been ongoing for about two years now and there still has been no reachable agreement on how to share the 24 hour time clock among both parties.
 
gabigley1 said:
What is the future of the WCRS-LP/WCRX-LP timeshare agreement? Will both parties ever come to an agreement on how to divide the 24 hour clock among
them? Talks have been ongoing for about two years now and there still has been no reachable agreement on how to share the 24 hour time clock among both parties.

actually as i read the agreement all 5 parties have to agree, as the time share agreement does not allow for assignment of time with out written permission of all 5 parties. Those being Groveport Madison Local Schools, Capital University, Community Refugee and Immigration Services, Inc., Simply Living, and Bexley Public Radio.

I dont think that any of them are willing to work it out.
 
Allfirdup said:
gabigley1 said:
What is the future of the WCRS-LP/WCRX-LP timeshare agreement? Will both parties ever come to an agreement on how to divide the 24 hour clock among
them? Talks have been ongoing for about two years now and there still has been no reachable agreement on how to share the 24 hour time clock among both parties.

actually as i read the agreement all 5 parties have to agree, as the time share agreement does not allow for assignment of time with out written permission of all 5 parties. Those being Groveport Madison Local Schools, Capital University, Community Refugee and Immigration Services, Inc., Simply Living, and Bexley Public Radio.

I dont think that any of them are willing to work it out.

Yes, but since Groveport Madison Local Schools, Capital University, Community Refugee and Immigration Services, Inc. are not licensed to operate on the frequency, one would assume they could care less what agreement Simply Living and Bexley Public Radio have. Its just a formality they they sign the agreement. Remember, Bexley Public Radio was not part of the last time share agreement filed with the FCC and that is why they filed a complaint with
the FCC. That said, could Community Refugee and Immigration Services and Groveport Madison Local Schools file for another CP to operate on 102.1
even though their CPs expired for the frequency? They have already told the FCC they don't want to build their LPFM stations on the frequency so
why should it matter anyway? ???
 
gabigley1 said:
Allfirdup said:
gabigley1 said:
What is the future of the WCRS-LP/WCRX-LP timeshare agreement? Will both parties ever come to an agreement on how to divide the 24 hour clock among
them? Talks have been ongoing for about two years now and there still has been no reachable agreement on how to share the 24 hour time clock among both parties.

actually as i read the agreement all 5 parties have to agree, as the time share agreement does not allow for assignment of time with out written permission of all 5 parties. Those being Groveport Madison Local Schools, Capital University, Community Refugee and Immigration Services, Inc., Simply Living, and Bexley Public Radio.

I dont think that any of them are willing to work it out.

Yes, but since Groveport Madison Local Schools, Capital University, Community Refugee and Immigration Services, Inc. are not licensed to operate on the frequency, one would assume they could care less what agreement Simply Living and Bexley Public Radio have. Its just a formality they they sign the agreement.
But the fact remains that they did not do that, and for what ever reason all 5 parties have not agreed, It does not matter if a license was granted or not the time share contract includes all 5 parties.

Remember, Bexley Public Radio was not part of the last time share agreement filed with the FCC and that is why they filed a complaint with
the FCC.
correct and because they were part of the original 5 party agreement, the other 4 can not just up and change the agreement with out bexley signing off on that

That said, could Community Refugee and Immigration Services and Groveport Madison Local Schools file for another CP to operate on 102.1
even though their CPs expired for the frequency?
They can file again at the next LP filing window which is later this year if i am not mistaken

They have already told the FCC they don't want to build their LPFM stations on the frequency so
why should it matter anyway? ???
The way the rules are written it states that when a time share agreement is drawn up, all parties involved in that agreement have to agree, It is in the FCC rules and they included wording to the effect in the agreement between the 5
 
gabigley1 said:
What is the future of the WCRS-LP/WCRX-LP timeshare agreement? Will both parties ever come to an agreement on how to divide the 24 hour clock among them? Talks have been ongoing for about two years now and there still has been no reachable agreement on how to share the 24 hour time clock among both parties.

I don't know, although my suspicions are they may...

I think the problem here is that the two licensees do have major problems with each other, not on programming, or the radio station in general, but on some of the individuals involved. There are some personality disputes, and those are edged on by some outside agitators. I either see a settlement, or a very public fight.
 
Allfirdup said:
gabigley1 said:
What is the future of the WCRS-LP/WCRX-LP timeshare agreement? Will both parties ever come to an agreement on how to divide the 24 hour clock among
them? Talks have been ongoing for about two years now and there still has been no reachable agreement on how to share the 24 hour time clock among both parties.

actually as i read the agreement all 5 parties have to agree, as the time share agreement does not allow for assignment of time with out written permission of all 5 parties. Those being Groveport Madison Local Schools, Capital University, Community Refugee and Immigration Services, Inc., Simply Living, and Bexley Public Radio.

I dont think that any of them are willing to work it out.

I think you are seeing two different sides of the issue, the local contract law side, and the FCC's recognition side.

As far as the FCC is concerned, they don't care about any of the past permittees, from their standpoint, they would accept a timeshare agreement between the two licensees, which would divide the remaining time between them. As far as they are concerned, the others don't exist.

From a local liability standpoint, the contract is a valid enforceable instrument, which was breached by some of the parties. If some of the parties decided to claim damages based on the contract breach, those signatories could be held liable for those cost, which is why the parties, and the Commission, which are a bunch of lawyers, could not exclude any of the parties who signed the agreement.

If I were those other parties, I wouyld be working very hard to get the two primary parties to agre to let them out of the agreement, since it has no basis of effect on them anyway.
 
gabigley1 said:
That said, could Community Refugee and Immigration Services and Groveport Madison Local Schools file for another CP to operate on 102.1
even though their CPs expired for the frequency? They have already told the FCC they don't want to build their LPFM stations on the frequency so
why should it matter anyway? ???

Is the question, could they come back???

I doubt it, as long as the current time share in in existance,even though they have signed it... Those construction permits have been cancelled, so I don't think they can bring them back without a new filing window
 
Allfirdup said:
That said, could Community Refugee and Immigration Services and Groveport Madison Local Schools file for another CP to operate on 102.1
even though their CPs expired for the frequency?
They can file again at the next LP filing window which is later this year if i am not mistaken


so all you need to ask is why would two parties who would both stand to lose their licenses, not agree to sign a time share agreement to save themselves.

Clearly, one side has already given up, and is simply trying to keep the other party from getting the station, which would automatically default to the last licensee standing, thinking that a third party, of their choosing can walk in and assume the license. It's a neat ploy, but not real likely to suceed.

but it's going to be interesting
 
posted without comment

-----
On May 3 WCRSlp, Columbus's Ohio's only community radio station received some bad news from the FCC. Peter Doyle, the chair of the FCC's Audio Division issued a ruling requiring WCRS to reduce its hours of broadcast from 13/day to only 5/day. Whereas we had been airing Democracy Now in both drive-time slots now we are limited to just the hours of 3-8 pm. This has forced us to drop a number of Pacifica-syndicated programs including Uprising, Sprouts, Talk Nation, Informativo Pacifica, Building Bridges, and From the Vault, as well as putting a number of local program proposals on indefinite hold. Our relationships with our small number of underwriters (all locally owned , ethical businesses) and local grant-giving organizations will be strained, and our loss of listenership and revenue will be difficult to measure.

I'm asking for your assistance in the form of an e-mail response to the ruling using the FCC's public comments submission form (see link at the end f this messae - it will take you to a simple on-line feedback form.

Here's a brief bit of background;

WCRS is locked in to a "time-share" agreement with another LPFM that shares our frequency of 102.1 FM. When we first went on the air WCRS had 5 hours a day and the other station had only 2. The remaining hours were divided among three of the LPFM applicants, yet those hours remained silent as the other 3 applicants dropped out for various reasons, leaving just WCRS and the one other station. Negotiations between WCRS and the other station stalled for over a year as WCRS' diplomatic overtures, when answered at all, were met with threats and absurd demands by the other station. Eventually two of the non-participating licensees agreed to transfer (or "assign") their hours to WCRS. We applied with the FCC for this transfer following the FCC rules precisely, and the FCC quickly awarded the additional hours to WCRS. The other station did not protest during the 30 day public notice period which followed, but filed a complaint over 9 months later in retaliation during an impasse in our on-going negotiations.

The unexpected ruling from the FCC holds that the time share agreement between the original 5 participants prevents any of the 5 from "assigning their interests" to another party without the unanimous consent of the other 4, yet the FCC was aware of that agreement at the time they approved the transfer. The ruling turns the FCC in to an arbiter of civil contracts, which we feel, is beyond the intended scope of its authority. The ruling also reinforces a time share agreement in which 3 of the 5 original parties no longer have any interest or standing It also returns 8 hours of the broadcast day to silence, depriving the local community of a diverse array of valuable programming not offered by any other outlet in the signal area..

Please help us by writing to the FCC between May 7 and June 6 within the public comment window expressing your objections to this ruling.

Send your e-mail to the following addresses and to me at [email protected]

[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

[email protected] <mailto:p[email protected]>

[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

[email protected]


Be sure to include your name and address in full, and the file numbers DA 10-763 and 1800B3-MM and the call letters and facility number; WCRS facility # 132329

I'll do the work of sending each of your letters as a public comment. Sending them as e-mails is helpful, but we also want to have them entered in to the official record.

Please copy your letter and paste it in a separate e-mail to me so we can gage the response.

Thanks

Evan Davis, WCRS co-founder, veteran Pacifica volunteer

Here, for example, is what I wrote;

Dear Mr. Doyle et al, FCC Audio Division;

I am writing to object to your ruling issued May 3 affecting LPFM station WCRS in Columbus, Ohio ( facility # 132329).

In the 3 years since WCRS first began broadcasting, it has consistently offered unique and informative programming featuring views and information that are not found anywhere else on the airwaves in Central Ohio. WCRS has offered programming in 4 languages, serving immigrant populations in Columbus that have no other broadcast representation , and it has offered a broader variety of music and arts programming than any other station in the Columbus market. As such WCRS has been an invaluable resource, yet your ruling not only reduces the station, but returns 8 hours of the broadcast day to silence, thus doing our community a disservice.

WCRS gained the 8 hours in question after two other LPFM licensees chose to assign their hours to WCRS in recognition of the community service that WCRS was already providing. Proper applications were made in accordance with the FCC's rules and procedures and the FCC awarded the transfer to WCRS accordingly. The FCC was aware of the text of the "time share agreement" between the 5 original parties at the time it awarded the transfer , and the other surviving station, WCRX did not protest the transfer at the time despite having received notification through publication as required by the FCC. Nevertheless 3 of the 5 original parties collectively agreed to pursue the rassignment after the only other party with standing, WCRX refused to bargain in good faith. That decision, by a majority of the parties to the agreement to bypass the agreement clearly raises questions about the viability and enforceability of that agreement.

The time share agreement is a civil contract and, as such, it is not up to the FCC to enforce it. As a federal agency charged with regulating access to the public airwaves the FCC principle mandate is to safeguard the public interests in this area of jurisdiction. Those interests are better served through the kind of diverse, multicultural, educational programming offered by WCRS than by radio silence. Given the absence of any apparent interest on the part of the other station, WCRX , in utilizing the hours in questuion at the time WCRS applied for the transfer, and given WCRS' proven ability to broadcast during those hours with useful and engaging programs your May 3 ruling seems arbitray and hostile to th4e public interst.

For the reasons stated above I am urging that you reconsider the May 3 ruling.

Evan Davis

Columbus, Ohio
May 13 at 9:59pm
 
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