WCSB 89.3 Switches to JazzNEO

[jlalande]

No big protests taking place.

Well, of course there aren't big protests. WHYY is, for the most part, saving the current format on WPSU radio (presumably with the exception of classical music) and saving the local PBS affiliate. Most WPSU listeners are likely relieved to hear they'll still be able to access their favorite NPR programs on the radio.

WPSU isn't a student station and WHYY didn't come in and abruptly fire everyone and switch the format to jazz. But, sure, other than that, the circumstances are totally the same. Folks upset over the WCSB takeover are just being irrational. 🙄

As I've said throughout this thread: Universities want to get out of the radio business.

Yes, you've repeated yourself many times. I don't think there's been much argument over that fact. What I and others would argue is that CSU and Ideastream could have, at a minimum, handled this better. Locking students out of their student radio station and abruptly ending student programming on College Radio Day? Wow, what a trifecta of insult, incompetence and shamelessness! I hope CSU and Ideastream's rush to flip the station to jazz and relieve themselves of the burden of a student-operated radio station are worth the folks canceling their Ideastream memberships and alienated alums.

 

[TheBigA]

WPSU isn't a student station and WHYY didn't come in and abruptly fire everyone and switch the format to jazz. But, sure, other than that, the circumstances are totally the same. Folks upset over the WCSB takeover are just being irrational. 🙄

Nobody at WCSB was fired. They were all students, not employees. The university owned the station, and was no longer interested in running a radio station. So they turned over operations to professionals. For some reason, these students mistakenly felt they were employees and that this was their radio station. They were wrong. The station belonged to the university. It still does. Nothing there has changed.

There are students involved with WPSU. They will continue to be involved with the station, just as actual students will receive internships at Ideastream. They just won't be playing their favorite music anymore. They can do that on their own, like most people.

What I and others would argue is that CSU and Ideastream could have, at a minimum, handled this better. Locking students out of their student radio station and abruptly ending student programming on College Radio Day?

Once again, who owns the station? The students or the university? It's not "their radio station." It belongs to the university. It's up to the university to decide what happens to it. Not the students. They have the money they raised, and they're welcome to use it with an online station they will own.

What we've seen is there was no "better way to handle it." The students were going to be angry no matter what happened, because they thought they owned this radio station. They don't, and that reality is hard for them to handle.

 

[Rusty Muck]

There are students involved with WPSU. They will continue to be involved with the station, just as actual students will receive internships at Ideastream. They just won't be playing their favorite music anymore. They can do that on their own, like most people.

For some clarification, WPSU is a hybrid news/classical format with almost no freeform/campus format element to it. They may be more comparable to WKSU pre-Ideastream, except that iteration of WKSU did not have any Kent State students directly involved with operations.

 

[TheBigA]

For some clarification, WPSU is a hybrid news/classical format with almost no freeform/campus format element to it. They may be more comparable to WKSU pre-Ideastream, except that iteration of WKSU did not have any Kent State students directly involved with operations.

Correct. Didn't mean to imply that WPSU was in any way run by the students. But students work there, just as they will at Ideastream.

The college I went to has a student run FM station. It's been on the air since 1974. It's also a free form format, and has international shows on the weekends. There is community involvement, just as there was at WCSB. I was part of this station for all four years that I was a student. So I have some knowledge and experience on this subject.

The difference between WCSB and my station is our station has a faculty administrator who oversees what happens, and represents the university, so that the students are aware of who owns the station. The administrator also teaches media classes at the university. The station broadcasts many campus activities, including the full season of college sports. None of that was being done at WCSU. So there's a big difference between how most colleges handle their stations and what happened at WCSB.

 

[MediaLover]

WKSU did a show earlier today on the WCSB-JazzNEO controversy during The Sound of Ideas.

CSU, Ideastream leaders address controversy over switch from student-run WCSB to JazzNEO

 

[TheBigA]

One more thing: People keep bringing up that this happened on college radio day. I doubt very much that anybody at the university knew that. How would they? Is it a university holiday? Of course not. At my former college station, the faculty advisor was a member of the organization that runs college radio day. So he knows about it, and lets the university know. That's how things work at a college station where you have university involvement. Everybody knows what the other one's doing. That wasn't the case at WCSB. The students were operating in their own little world, disconnected from the university.

 

[inter1097]

Alison was fantastic during this. Maybe it won't save WCSB (Unless something wild happens) But it might make other college stations think twice before handing the keys over to someone else.

 

[TheBigA]

Alison was fantastic during this. Maybe it won't save WCSB (Unless something wild happens) But it might make other college stations think twice before handing the keys over to someone else.

The only way I can see is for the alumni to take a more active role, set up a non-profit, and operate the station in partnership with the university. Someone needs to be legally responsible, because universities don't want to be, and the students are too young. Maybe raise enough money to pay a member of the faculty. Otherwise, you'll see universities doing this or selling to EMF.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Alison was fantastic during this. Maybe it won't save WCSB (Unless something wild happens) But it might make other college stations think twice before handing the keys over to someone else.

The definition of "saved" needs to be applied liberally here. The best-case scenario is a reconstituted WCSB as an internet station and on a subchannel of WCLV (WCSB doesn't have HD capabilities so that's not really an option) and accessible on the Ideastream website and on their app.

I cannot see the public service operating agreement being wound down for multiple reasons, both practical and economical.

 

[TheBigA]

The definition of "saved" needs to be applied liberally here. The best-case scenario is a reconstituted WCSB as an internet station and on a subchannel of WCLV (WCSB doesn't have HD capabilities so that's not really an option) and accessible on the Ideastream website and on their app.

Two questions: Who would pay for it, and where would it originate? As it was, donations weren't enough to sustain the station, and that was on a much bigger signal.

 

[fybush]

Going around and around and around as usual on these threads, but I just wanted to chime in with a couple of quick observations.

I don't think the situation is as black and white as BigA wants to make it out to be with all the "spoiled children" rhetoric. I, too, got my start in college radio, 35 years ago at WBRS at Brandeis University. Aside from it being a private school instead of a state university, there was a lot of similarity to what I understand the WCSB situation to have been.

There wasn't (and still isn't) a journalism or communications program at Brandeis. WBRS wasn't (and isn't) part of any academic program, and had no faculty advisor.

It was (and still is) a different but legitimate thing: a student activity, albeit (like WCSB) one with a fair amount of community programmer involvement, too.

There's nothing wrong with college stations like that. Where I think BigA's analysis falls a little short is in overlooking that any college wanting to attract students has to have student life and student activities, whether it's club sports teams, drama clubs, music clubs, or, yeah, student media.

You can certainly argue that for college students in 2025, a radio station isn't at the top of the list of those most-desired student life amenities, and you might well be right. And it's also true that unlike most student life activities, a radio station is complicated because it is both a student club and also holds a broadcast license, which is usually (but not always) held by the college itself.

It's probably wise for any college station's student leadership these days to be paying more attention to that FCC license than most of them do. I don't recall very much interaction between the WBRS board and university leadership about our license, save for one incident a year before I arrived in which the university got testy about the language in one song that was played late at night. It probably helped that we were a 25-watt class D station that wouldn't have been of any value if the college had tried to sell it.

However.

I disagree rather vehemently that CSU had no obligation to the students and community members running WCSB. A public university isn't Audacy or Salem or iHeart, which are responsible only to their own bottom lines and nothing else. The students may not be in charge of the university, but they are certainly constituents to whom the university owes some responsibility, if only to avoid developing a reputation as the sort of place where student life amenities are simply pulled away without any notice.

Even if the ultimate end of this situation was always going to be that the WCSB license would end up in Ideastream's management, and even if the process would have been potentially tense along the way, I think in a university setting where a license has been operated as a student activity for literally decades (and where there's been community involvement, too), there's a degree of respect owed to the ongoing operation and operators even if the license is actually held by the university trustees.

Does that mean letting students go on the air live without any oversight? Of course not, but it could have meant recorded farewell shows, a more coherent plan to transition to streaming or an HD subchannel, a plan a few years ago to apply for a student-run LPFM... but I don't think an abrupt lockout was the right way to handle it, College Radio Day or not. And I'd bet that the PR and marketing department at CSU feels the same way now that they see the kind of not-great publicity this has generated.

 

[TheBigA]

I disagree rather vehemently that CSU had no obligation to the students and community members running WCSB.

I agree with that, and I hope I didn't give the impression that I feel the university has no obligation to the students and community. They do, and listening to the video, it puts the responsibility for this decision squarely on the shoulders of the university. At no time did I hear the president talk about those obligations. They're the ones who see students as children, because in most cases, they are under 21. That was never discussed.

I learned from the video that at one time there was a faculty advisor, and he called in to the show. He was asked to retire, so obviously there is a financial aspect to this that the president didn't discuss. I also agree with the lack of respect. So my views on this subject aren't as "black & white" as they may appear. My main view is that the responsibility for the decision should rest with the university. Unfortunately Ideastream is being blamed for this. I don't think that's fair. They're simply following the terms of an agreement they made with the university, and the university still owns the station, and controls the future of the agreement. If they want to renegotiate and give the students back their radio station, that's up to them. But it doesn't sound like that's happening.

 

[TheBigA]

The part of the video discussion that I found intriguing was the student talking about the importance of an FM signal and broadcast radio. How old is she? Every day, there are people on this board telling me that young people don't listen to broadcast radio anymore. Yet here's someone under 30 telling me that broadcast radio is a valuable resource. Really?

Going back to my college radio experience, I can say that at that time I hardly listened to broadcast radio. The people on it were older than me, and they were trying to tell me what to listen to or what's important. Screw them! I'm old enough to make my own decisions. That's what I was hearing from this student. Very refreshing to hear young people still feel this way. Also great to know that she has an interest in preserving the past and bringing it to the future. That's great. Exactly what you want to hear.

But even corporate radio understands that the public has moved to digital platforms, and is not going back. In my view, she's wasting her time trying to preserve this FM frequency. The president of the university was saying what many other universities have been saying. The students don't listen to FM, and they should move their radio club online. She said the university is looking for ways to support them. I'd suggest that's a discussion worth having because I doubt the university is going to go back to running WCSB. She says the students are welcome to continue their club. Just not one that uses an FCC license.

 

[jlalande]

Nobody at WCSB was fired. They were all students, not employees. The university owned the station, and was no longer interested in running a radio station. So they turned over operations to professionals. For some reason, these students mistakenly felt they were employees and that this was their radio station. They were wrong. The station belonged to the university. It still does. Nothing there has changed.

Sorry if I wasn't clear -- since you were making a comparison to WPSU, I, also made a comparison to WPSU. I understand and am aware that the students at WCSB aren't employees. I'm not aware of WCSB students referring to themselves as such. Could you point me to an example of them doing so?

By the way -- the actual employees here are the University president and leadership of the "Division of Student Belonging and Success" (under which, student organizations like WCSB fall) -- that would include the VP for Student Belonging and Success and the Dean of Students. The students would be the ones paying their salaries.

Sometimes, it seems like college administrators forget that without those annoying students, there wouldn't be a University. I think if they'd remembered that, perhaps they would've put some more thought and care into how this was handled.

Once again, who owns the station? The students or the university? It's not "their radio station." It belongs to the university. It's up to the university to decide what happens to it. Not the students. They have the money they raised, and they're welcome to use it with an online station they will own.

Yes, the University owns the station. But, this is a station that was started by students and run by students as a club for 50 years, so I don't think it should be a surprise that the students feel some ownership of the station, too. As the licensee, of course, the University is free to do with the station what they want, and if they no longer have the staff to help manage a radio station or the interest in owning one, this deal with Ideastream certainly makes a lot of sense. But...

What we've seen is there was no "better way to handle it." The students were going to be angry no matter what happened, because they thought they owned this radio station. They don't, and that reality is hard for them to handle.

I agree that there were going to be folks upset about this regardless of how well Cleveland State and Ideastream handled it but just completely disagree that this is the best that Cleveland State could do. And you seem to be presuming a lot of entitled or bad behavior by the students.

Speaking of those campus administrators, my favorite part of that "Sound of Ideas" roundtable this morning was the former staff advisor calling in to rebut Dr. Bloomberg's claim that nobody was laid off and that he had just retired -- he said he was told he'd be laid off, and that he had to beg them for two more months so he could make it to 30 years for his retirement. I guess there's the low bar for how this could have been handled even worse -- they could have fired him two months short of his 30th anniversary and not let him get his full retirement. Other than that, I don't see how CSU could have handled this any worse.

Scott's already summed it up better than I could as far as what a "better" transition could have looked like, but his suggestion for pre-recorded farewell shows was also an area where I feel like Ideastream could perhaps have done more -- if, with the former staff advisor's retirement, the University felt like they wouldn't be able to manage monitoring the content of those shows, isn't that something Ideastream could have helped with?

Speaking of...

One more thing: People keep bringing up that this happened on college radio day. I doubt very much that anybody at the university knew that. How would they? Is it a university holiday? Of course not. At my former college station, the faculty advisor was a member of the organization that runs college radio day. So he knows about it, and lets the university know. That's how things work at a college station where you have university involvement. Everybody knows what the other one's doing. That wasn't the case at WCSB. The students were operating in their own little world, disconnected from the university.

Yes, this is an obscure celebration, and it's clear the campus leadership don't have a clue about radio, so I'll concede that yes, CSU leadership not knowing about College Radio Day fits. But this seemed like another missed opportunity for Ideastream -- even if the University was unaware and/or unconcerned about dumping their student radio station on World College Radio Day, it's too bad nobody at Ideastream put 2 and 2 together and thought about the optics of an abrupt takeover of WCSB on College Radio Day. Then again, Ideastream seems to be completely surprised and unprepared for the blowback they've received so far (I especially liked them trying to tell angry folks on Facebook "Please know that this is not a takeover" and the report of their ops manager blasting folks on Facebook under a fake name), so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that, either.

Just a shame all around. I'm sad to see WCSB members lose their radio station without any input into the decision or chance to say goodbye. And it's a shame that Ideastream and Cleveland State have alienated many of their supporters and alumni with how they've handled this not-a-takeover. Public media needs all the support they can get right now, and while I realize Facebook and Reddit can be echo chambers for anger, there sure seem to be a lot of angry folks on Ideastream's Facebook page and Reddit saying they've canceled their Ideastream memberships.

 

[TheBigA]

Yes, the University owns the station. But, this is a station that was started by students and run by students as a club for 50 years, so I don't think it should be a surprise that the students feel some ownership of the station, too.

I'm here to tell you as someone who went through this experience at another university that if you don't get something in writing, it doesn't matter. It began as a club, but someone had to apply for an FCC license, and the name on the license is the university. That's where the mistake was made. I know of a student run college FM station that is owned by a non-profit set up by alumni with the cooperation of the university. That radio station never has to worry about the university coming in and giving the frequency to someone else. That's what should have happened here. Had the alumni been more involved, that could have happened. But as long as students are involved, the university will use the rule of "in loco parentis" to tell them what to do.

I agree that there were going to be folks upset about this regardless of how well Cleveland State and Ideastream handled it but just completely disagree that this is the best that Cleveland State could do. And you seem to be presuming a lot of entitled or bad behavior by the students.

I don't have to presume it. It's right there on public display. I didn't hear any interest in taking the club online. They want their station back.

Speaking of those campus administrators, my favorite part of that "Sound of Ideas" roundtable this morning was the former staff advisor calling in to rebut Dr. Bloomberg's claim that nobody was laid off and that he had just retired -

Me too. The fact that the call screener put him on the air should say a lot about Ideastream. They aren't the ogres people make them out to be.

I don't recall that the university president responded to the call.

it's too bad nobody at Ideastream put 2 and 2 together and thought about the optics of an abrupt takeover of WCSB on College Radio Day. Then again, Ideastream seems to be completely surprised and unprepared for the blowback they've received so far

Absolutely. Everybody is living in their own silo, and nobody appears to be budging. That's not good.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Just a shame all around. I'm sad to see WCSB members lose their radio station without any input into the decision or chance to say goodbye. And it's a shame that Ideastream and Cleveland State have alienated many of their supporters and alumni with how they've handled this not-a-takeover. Public media needs all the support they can get right now, and while I realize Facebook and Reddit can be echo chambers for anger, there sure seem to be a lot of angry folks on Ideastream's Facebook page and Reddit saying they've canceled their Ideastream memberships.

This actually caused me to offload Facebook from my phone. I am tired seeing the anti-public media sentiment from who I thought were reasonable, logical people and bullying anyone who disagrees, the typical cyber mob mentality. It's truly a toxic bubble that's not worth engaging in now.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Absolutely. Everybody is living in their own silo, and nobody appears to be budging. That's not good.

The chances are high now that WCSB is never brought back in any form. If Ideastream were to somehow pull out—and they would be in an even worse position if they did—CSU will either sell WCSB to the likes of VCY or hand in the license. That's it.

 

[TheBigA]

The chances are high now that WCSB is never brought back in any form. If Ideastream were to somehow pull out—and they would be in an even worse position if they did—CSU will either sell WCSB to the likes of VCY or hand in the license. That's it.

Another interesting part was when the student asked the Ideastream GM about putting the student station on one of their platforms. The GM said no one had approached him about it. I'm not a lawyer, but I can tell you that if the students want anything, they have to speak to the university. Namely the Dean of Students. Because they have no seat at the table. This deal is 100% between the university and Ideastream. The students need to recognize that they have very limited leverage. They have to be willing to give up something, because that's how you negotiate. I didn't hear any of that from them today.

Once again, the university doesn't want to be in radio. They want to use the station to get something of an academic nature for the students. Not a club. The club thing really doesn't matter to the university. They get judged on how many students they graduate and how many go on to productive careers. Being on a student radio station doesn't lead to a productive career. At least not in this century. I know. That's said as someone who was on the air at one for four years, and couldn't get a job in radio based on my college experience. They all told me I had to play what they said, and follow strict format rules. These students don't know what that is. Or they know it and don't like it. Either way, it's not marketable experience.

 

[davideduardo]

Alison was fantastic during this. Maybe it won't save WCSB (Unless something wild happens) But it might make other college stations think twice before handing the keys over to someone else.

Students don't own or hold the keys to anything belonging to a university. They can't "hand over" any keys or anything else. And at this station, most of the contributors were not even students, just volunteers.

They have no real or even philosophical rights at all.

 

[inter1097]

We're splitting hairs a bit but.. point taken

Students don't own or hold the keys to anything belonging to a university. They can't "hand over" any keys or anything else. And at this station, most of the contributors were not even students, just volunteers.

They have no real or even philosophical rights at all.