Yes, the university agrees not to charge the group with trespassing and using state property for personal purposes if they withdraw their suit.
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WCSB - college station that flipped to jazz
- Thread starter b-turner
- Start date
Yes, the university agrees not to charge the group with trespassing and using state property for personal purposes if they withdraw their suit.
The whole point of the lawsuit is to get back control of the station, which you admitted is not possible. You said you want Ideastream (which is not a defendant) to lose the lease and to have the license go to a Godcaster. Who does that benefit? Certainly not the general public.
Either way, they lose. The judge is most likely to toss it because of settled law and precedent.
What are you talking about.
I said the XCSB Crowd is incredibly toxic and noxious and I stand by what I said. They are toxic on social media and actively bullying people. Don't you dare try to gaslight me again.
That's the only real outcome here. Either way, the Friends of XCSB is out a lot of money having to pay a high-profile lawyer. And for what.
don't you gaslight me again
"don't you gaslight me again" says the guy that changed his name hoping no one would notice.
Ideastream is not a defendant.. yet.
www.cleveland.com
I wouldn't take a Godcaster over public radio.. I'd take a Godcaster over Ideastream. (Especially radio U) If Ideastream happen to sell it off to say the Columbus group (similar how Cleveland and Kent were merged) then that works too. I occasionally listened to Folk Alley (HD2 on IdeaStream) until they pulled the rug on WCSB
I never said I thought they had a chance but the new lawyer is raising an eyebrow. Like I mentioned before, Brian Bardwell knows more about this stuff more than you, I or anyone on this forum combined. You don't think he would of taken the case up if he didn't think they had a shot? He'd be jeopardizing his own integrity if he did.
"don't you gaslight me again" says the guy that changed his name hoping no one would notice.
Ideastream is not a defendant.. yet.
WCSB lawsuit: Nondisclosure agreement may pull Ideastream into case
An NDA between Cleveland State University and Ideastream requires both parties to fight disclosure of confidential information related to the controversial radio station transfer.
I wouldn't take a Godcaster over public radio.. I'd take a Godcaster over Ideastream. (Especially radio U) If Ideastream happen to sell it off to say the Columbus group (similar how Cleveland and Kent were merged) then that works too. I occasionally listened to Folk Alley (HD2 on IdeaStream) until they pulled the rug on WCSB
I never said I thought they had a chance but the new lawyer is raising an eyebrow. Like I mentioned before, Brian Bardwell knows more about this stuff more than you, I or anyone on this forum combined. You don't think he would of taken the case up if he didn't think they had a shot? He'd be jeopardizing his own integrity if he did.
Let's all take the temperature down a little before this thread gets closed.
We don't do personal attacks here. Let's keep it about radio.
As for the issue at hand, I stand by what I have said earlier in the thread: just because Cleveland State was legally allowed to do what it did (and may well prevail in court) doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.
There's a place for community radio amidst the corporatization of the rest of the radio universe. WCSB might have been talking to a niche audience, or a series of niche audiences, but there's a lot to be said for how much those audiences and their programmers cared about what they did.
Whether or not CSU had any legal obligation to them, university leadership (and Ideastream) badly misunderstood how their abrupt closure of the station would be received. It was avoidable with better strategic advice, and it's terrible form for a public institution.
You don't have to like the XCSB crew or approve of how they're handling everything, but I think it's reasonable to see that there's a reason they're angry, and that there's more to this story than just "oh look how spoiled these college kids are."
But then, I wouldn't have had the radio career I've had without my time in college radio, so I'll own my biases here, too.
We don't do personal attacks here. Let's keep it about radio.
As for the issue at hand, I stand by what I have said earlier in the thread: just because Cleveland State was legally allowed to do what it did (and may well prevail in court) doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.
There's a place for community radio amidst the corporatization of the rest of the radio universe. WCSB might have been talking to a niche audience, or a series of niche audiences, but there's a lot to be said for how much those audiences and their programmers cared about what they did.
Whether or not CSU had any legal obligation to them, university leadership (and Ideastream) badly misunderstood how their abrupt closure of the station would be received. It was avoidable with better strategic advice, and it's terrible form for a public institution.
You don't have to like the XCSB crew or approve of how they're handling everything, but I think it's reasonable to see that there's a reason they're angry, and that there's more to this story than just "oh look how spoiled these college kids are."
But then, I wouldn't have had the radio career I've had without my time in college radio, so I'll own my biases here, too.
As someone that's strived to keep it about radio... Thank you. I've tried my best to mind my own business but I seem to have a big target on my head for whatever stupid reason
And as I said before, the university could have avoided all this mess by telling them: "Look, we're getting out of the radio biz, you have XX amount of weeks or months to come up with some money to buy the license from use, find new studios, leave all university property there except transmitter and tower or leave tower where it's at and pay a monthly lease fee to us, otherwise we'll sell the station to someone who CAN pony up the money." If they couldn't/can't do that, then they have no beef as they were given a chance but the university instead decided to indulge in some skullduggery and keep everything silent till the second it happened.
There is no good way to handle these things. There is no good way to give people bad news. If you give them advance notice, you open the door to vandalism. The way to avoid it is do what they did at Salem State. School was out of session, the station was off the air, and the school turned the license in to the FCC. That was clean and simple. Students show up in September, and there's no more radio station. I've previously given examples at Vanderbilt and the University of San Francisco. Both very abrupt. Neither case was reversed. That's what I expect to happen here.
You would take a Godcaster over Ideastream? Is this because you are unhappy with this CSB debacle or is there another reason? (Just curious)don't you gaslight me again
"don't you gaslight me again" says the guy that changed his name hoping no one would notice.
Ideastream is not a defendant.. yet.
WCSB lawsuit: Nondisclosure agreement may pull Ideastream into case
An NDA between Cleveland State University and Ideastream requires both parties to fight disclosure of confidential information related to the controversial radio station transfer.
I wouldn't take a Godcaster over public radio.. I'd take a Godcaster over Ideastream. (Especially radio U) If Ideastream happen to sell it off to say the Columbus group (similar how Cleveland and Kent were merged) then that works too. I occasionally listened to Folk Alley (HD2 on IdeaStream) until they pulled the rug on WCSB
I never said I thought they had a chance but the new lawyer is raising an eyebrow. Like I mentioned before, Brian Bardwell knows more about this stuff more than you, I or anyone on this forum combined. You don't think he would of taken the case up if he didn't think they had a shot? He'd be jeopardizing his own integrity if he did.
Lawyers take cases all the time. I don't think Bardwell's rep is going down the tubes no matter what happens.
Let's say for sake of discussion that the XCSB claims that the Uni wanted to silence criticism is legit-guess what? They can. They hold the license. Suppose someone had a show where he or she went on the air and spent the time saying LGBTQ people should be locked up until they changed their ways. A person has a right to say it, but the Uni isn't obligated to provide them a forum.
As others have noted, I understand all the passion and anger that has come with shuttering an alternative voice...but I have yet to hear an explanation from WCSB management about why they only had enough students to cover two broadcast days, if each student did two hours. If CSU wanted to field a softball team and only 5 people tried out...they wouldn't spend student activity dollars to pay for community members to fill out the roster. I know that a 24/7 operation is different than a team and that volunteers play an important role in college radio, but in the case of WCSB, the balance seemed skewed far roo heavily toward non-students...at the end of the day...this seems to have turned into community station, rather than a University activity for students.
I think the CSU admin just didn't think it should be using dollars for non-students to engage in their hobby/passion. CSB volunteers did raise some money-not at the level of some of the other stations. Sadly, the bill came due, and these long-time volunteers were caught by surprise when the plug got pulled.
CSU is full of crap-be honest. Having this station doesn't serve our interests-we want out. Don't hide behind "internships and partnerships...blah blah"
I understand what Yabadababado said about telling those involved that they could buy the station, but I am not sure the Uni would want to provide a forum for people to trash CSU, which now the University would be unable to control.
What you're suggesting as "the way" is built on an assumption that I think needs some unpacking: it's the idea that a university is like other businesses, a top-down autocracy in which students are apparently an inconvenience to be worked around whenever possible.
If that's your worldview, good for you, I guess. As I have said repeatedly in this discussion, it's not the way good university communities function. Students and their activities and interests aren't an expense or an inconvenience to a good university leader. They're the lifeblood of a vibrant university community, including all the little niche activities and clubs that help to build the social fabric of the place.
"Let's just get rid of this thing while the students are away" is exactly the kind of tone-deaf "leadership" that ends up engendering all kinds of negativity. Better leaders who understand the give-and-take of a college community are able to do the harder but more positive work of engaging with the community around them in order to be seen as builders and not destroyers.
It's entirely possible for a good leader to start from "WCSB isn't sustainable in its current form," a point on which I think we all agree, and end up with a solution that still frees the university from an economic burden *and* leaves that leader's constituency feeling heard and respected. None of which happens with "screw these pesky students, let's just lock them out while they're away."
It's more complicated than that. The lawsuit goes into some of it. The relationship between the radio station and the university had degenerated. It had happened over a period of time. Student involvement was low. Student listening was even lower. The station was mainly run by non-students. It had become a very expensive club. Once the university has to choose between academics and radio stations, the academics will win. The college's board is responsible for the financial health of the university. To them, owning a radio station was an obvious non-core asset. If you read the comments from the Penn State board about WPSU, it was a very similar view.
It's obvious from reading the lawsuit that they were past any negotiating with the students. The students wanted what they had, and it was incompatible with the financial reality. That's when the accountants and lawyers got involved. Once again, we're not talking about students. The radio station was mainly run by non-students. They were not going to be satisfied with paid internships at Ideastream. In that case, it's less about the relationship between the university and students, and more about a security issue of how to get the community out of university property without vandalism. As I said, it's more complicated than having an adult conversation with students.
That's why the lawsuit doesn't talk about education or any of the practical aspects of the radio station, and instead focuses on generalities like free speech and open meeting laws. This radio station had nothing to do with the college, academics, or providing an educational experience for students. This station was about playing music. The students didn't learn about formats, ratings, or broadcast law because it was all irrelevant to what they did.
There is a way to get students interested in radio. I've seen it done. It takes a lot of work and interest, mainly on the part of alumni, but also requires involvement from the academic departments. Students need to see a connection between what they're doing at the radio station and getting a job. That wasn't happening at WCSB. Instead, the lawsuit is more about social issues than education.
I think we disagree and agree at the same time. I don't have a problem with the radio station not being tied a desire to get a job in the industry. I was involved with college radio and many of the students did it for fun/love of music/as something to put on their resume... Not every kid who writes for the school paper becomes a journalist or plays soccer goes on to do it as a pro...but we agree...it needs to be a very much student activity
Yes, we agree here. When I graduated from college, I left the college radio station. They asked if I wanted to return and do a weekly show, and I said no. I describe being on the radio as an addiction. It's easy to fall into the habit of doing it, especially if there are no rules. I didn't want to fall into that habit.
There are people at my old college station who are in their 60s, and have never done radio outside of the college station. All they're doing, from the college side of the picture, is filling time that would go unfilled, because there aren't students for those times. At some point, the question is asked "why are we doing this?" If it doesn't fit with the core mission of the school, perhaps there are other ways to use this asset.
At one time, colleges did what was known as "community outreach." They recognized that they were on state owned property, the community couldn't tax that property, so they felt a need to "give back" to the community. People in the community were allowed to use the gym or the pool on campus. That time has passed. Now we see universities, even those owned by the state, where the focus is on the basics, and less on community outreach. We're seeing that now that CPB funding has been cut, and these universities now have to fund these stations without federal help. That's not the situation at WCSB, because they didn't receive CPB funding. But that's still the thinking at the boards who run these schools. Ideastream is a community station. They have community leaders on their board. So that was a way to keep community involvement and still provide a student experience for those who wanted it. Unfortunately, there's really no way to handle community people who just want to play their favorite music on the radio. Those are the people who are left out in the cold, and why they're angry.
I posted this a few months ago. This isn't strictly a CSU thing. The state government is cutting funding to the state college system, and the federal government is cutting funding as well. The federal funding affects research universities, such as Case Western. So you may see similar cuts there.
www.10tv.com
A lot of this infrastructure, such as public education and broadcasting, was built 50 years ago. The views about all that have changed since then.
Proposed cuts to research funding could devastate Ohio universities
Proposed federal funding cuts could be devastating for Ohio colleges and universities.
www.10tv.com
A lot of this infrastructure, such as public education and broadcasting, was built 50 years ago. The views about all that have changed since then.
Not exactly related, but Bowling Green State University’s WBGU-TV is ending their PBS affiliate and cutting most of its local programming as a result of federal/CPB funding cuts. WBGU-TV will remain operated by BGSU and air the Ohio Channel.I posted this a few months ago. This isn't strictly a CSU thing. The state government is cutting funding to the state college system, and the federal government is cutting funding as well. The federal funding affects research universities, such as Case Western. So you may see similar cuts there.
Proposed cuts to research funding could devastate Ohio universities
Proposed federal funding cuts could be devastating for Ohio colleges and universities.
A lot of this infrastructure, such as public education and broadcasting, was built 50 years ago. The views about all that have changed since then.
FYI, The Ohio Channel is funded by the state government. If they're cutting costs, this may come next.
But yes, a lot of state colleges are ending their PBS affiliation because of money. I think WKU is another.
Correct, but I believe a lot of The Ohio Channel’s operations come from Ideastream (at least they’re the ones who have the copyright on it), who seems to be doing pretty fine and are obviously expanding. In the limited amount I’ve watched it, I assume Ohio Channel seems to have limited expense. I also see Ohio politicians on both sides sharing their videos on social media regularly so hopefully they wouldn’t allow it to go under.
So what? They get the station and trash the university....it can't go on forever before people say "Enough of this crap!" and run off to another station.
What we are forgetting is that a significant... if not "huge" percentage of students are holding down paid jobs that cover, at least, their living costs while at school. They don't spent time in the Greek life or doing non-paid campus activities.
I mention this because the now immense costs of a college education, even at a state school, require rethinking the whole college experience. That ranges from changing from a semester system to quarters with no Summer break, making a degree attainable in 3 rather than 4 years. Then, rethinking the "publish or die" attitude that makes professors less focused on students and more on tenure (another subject worth evaluation). And the whole "liberal arts" concept that produces nearly nothing.
While this last paragraph is a personal perspective / diatribe, the Cleveland brouhaha demonstrates how student interests in unaccredited activities has changed due to changing interests and economic realities. And that, in no small part, is why most of the staff of a "student" station consists of non-students.