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WCSB Flips to Jazz

Are you sure it was "obscenity" and not "indecency"? FCC does have leniency for indecency during "Safe harbor" which is between 10PM-6AM ( I believe WCSB's rules were between 11-6). but not for . obscenity.

"In assessing whether broadcast material is patently offensive, the full context in which the material appeared is important. Three principal factors are significant to this contextual analysis: (1) the explicitness or graphic nature of the description or depiction; (2) whether the material dwells on or repeats at length descriptions or depictions of sexual or excretory organs or activities; and (3) whether the material panders to, titillates, or shocks the audience. In examining these three factors, the FCC must weigh and balance them to determine whether the broadcast material is patently offensive because each indecency case presents its own particular mix of factors."

 
I will add that too often I heard what the FCC calls obscenity in some of the lyrics of songs played.
The FCC has no list of obscenities. Our only "real world" reference is the "Seven Dirty Words" comedy routine; even there we do not know if all or just some of the words are what the FCC might consider as "dirty".
While they have been getting away with it for some time -- it never bothered me or obviously their listeners -- but the emergence of the extreme right who are determined to squelch any media that they feel is not lockstep with their views, suggests that some conservative organization would challenge the license based on the "obscenity" and who knows what they would do with it.
You are politicizing what has been an enigma for station managers and programmers for the last six decades or so. We don't know which words are inappropriate for open access radio and TV, so we form our own opinions on what obscenity and profanity are.

Even one of the Supreme Court justices admitted that there was no list or description, but said "I know it when I see it".

Google AI says:

"I know it when I see it" is a famous quote from Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, who used it to express his struggle to legally define obscenity in the context of a 1964 case. The modern legal definition of obscenity, established by the Miller Test, requires that material, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interest, depicts sexual conduct in a patently offensive way, and lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
 
Even one of the Supreme Court justices admitted that there was no list or description, but said "I know it when I see it".

In more recent years, the court has thrown out any FCC fines based on what they said were "capricious" rules that were vague or not specific.


Of course we also have the Chevron decision that makes it even harder for agencies to impose fines or punishment.

But that wouldn't stop a zealous FCC chairman from inventing a reason, such as "public interest," to revoke a license.

I think the university is concerned about liability. Turning over operations to another party gives them deniability. They can sue the operator.
 
Going back to WCSU, I think it can said that WCSU was the progenitor of WCSB.
While Kid Leo left WMMS for Columbia in 1988, he kept his hand in radio working part time on air at WXRT in New York, Howard Stern's flagship, and others and then ran Sirius/XM's Undrground Garage Channel where he still does Wednesday through Friday afternoons.
Ed Flash Ferenc became media manager for Cleveland Municipal Court but also moderates "America's Workforce ", for years on WERE and now is a podcast.
What that can teach young broadcasters is that you will have to be flexible and open to new avenues in your careers and move with the times, not fight them.
 
Why would they suddenly be more concerned with "liability" than in the past?

Unless...

Oh, never mind, we've been thru this before and people didn't take it seriously. I don't get this argument, I really don't. Fewer people passionate about and engaged in creating interesting radio is a negative for radio. WCSB was paying its way and there'd been no complaints filed to anyone's knowledge.

I don't buy that there's no value in what they did simply because you can't get paid most places for playing music. Have we basically given up on the idea of culture? Of there being a place for anything that isn't easily described or strictly "professional?" I'm accepting the reality that this has and is happening, the closure of college stations. Some people like communities around music. Some people value human beings who know something about a genre or scene or era curating that and sharing it with them. A few people at stations like KEXP and KCRW get paid for it. Others do it for the love and passion. And I don't cheer when the airwaves become just that much more sterile. I like jazz. I like well programmed stations playing the hits. I also like stations like WCSB and KALX. "Safe" radio is not all there should be if we want to hold onto a shred of the concept that the public should have some share in their airwaves.

What I don't understand is why several parties here expect that it should be accepted, or that there should be no pushback in how it was handled. For some reason, this is really giving me pause. One can accept realities and not cheer on those who have no tact or respect in how they handle business. One can accept that there's fewer college stations left and also not actively shrug and yawn when one which had done fine (to my knowledge, WCSB was never the source of unrest or FCC action) and has an audience who at least cares enough about it to create not insignificant amounts of comment on a forum usually very tech savvy (Reddit) is treated with no respect for its legacy or contributions to Cleveland culture.

I get that a number of you have done more time in this business than I have. I get that we're all supposed to be jaded about things. But seeing people in 2025 even care about this station to the degree they do, makes how they were treated unusually irritating to me.

Maybe I'm just tired of people having more reasons to not care about radio. Or people who are bigger, in the process of doing their business, not giving at least the minimum respect to the people that came before them and kept the station going for 30 years. I don't like it when commercial broadcasters do it, I don't like it when EMF does it (though if you've noticed, EMF generally lets them say farewell, so in that respect they're actually better than the team I usually root for, the public broadcasters.)

All of this could have been avoided and wasn't. And to excuse it after the fact, and start to suggest that somehow the station (without proof) was "obscene" or somehow creating a liability for the school is accusing people of misconduct after the fact. They lost their station, and it was a vibrant creative outlet for at least a non-invisible number of the Cleveland music community. Give them their mourning period at least before suggesting they were bad broadcasters.

I recognize realities. I also live in them enough where I recognize the value of there being alternatives. Seeing one that didn't do anything wrong, treated badly, is an affront to my sense of basic dignity and how human beings deal with each other. Especially if they want a relationship with the students and to educate them further in media, maybe start out with a little more class. Ideastream has screwed themselves out of a number of donors with this, which even in cold numbers was a dumb move.
 
All of this could have been avoided and it wasn’t.
You keep ignoring the fact that colleges want to get out of the radio business. There are hundreds of examples. This is the latest. The reason doesn’t matter. This was going to happen sooner or later. It just happened now. But it was going to happen. It couldn’t be avoiddd because they wanted to get out of radio. Period.

I listened to the councilman list all the things the station did for the community. What did they do for the university? Did they work with academic departments and allow professors to use the studio as a teaching facility? That's what colleges do. They teach. Not play music. They didn't endear themselves to their owner. That's what any smart worker does if they want to save their job. They didn't do that. Did they?
 
I'm not ignoring that fact.

They could have exited differently.

The station was paying its way with fundraisers. Give them advance notice, set some boundaries on what would be dumped out of or get them removed from the air, let them go out with enough notice for a farewell broadcast on freaking College Radio Day. Let them use the space, if it wasn't going to be used for something else, to continue streaming (the station had been streaming for decades.)

There was nothing that was accomplished here that couldn't have waited 24 hours and not cost their new programmers donations and PR. Last I checked, the bigger public radio groups just lost a lot of funding.

Maybe my mistake was assuming that a public broadcaster partnering with a licensee of 30 years might have some class. Would have gone nicely with the new format.
 
I'm not ignoring that fact. They could have exited differently.

It doesn't matter. It ended. This isn't about Ideastream. It could have been anyone else. Quit blaming Ideastream. The university wanted out of radio. That's it. It would either go to Ideastream or someone else. But it was going to go and quickly. That's how things are done. They make a decision and follow through. It happens every day in radio. It happens every day in real life.

Ideastream is going to give these students more education that they were getting playing music. They will get more education than if the station was sold to anyone else. Give it a chance. I haven't heard you give a better alternative.

Let them use the space, if it wasn't going to be used for something else, to continue streaming (the station had been streaming for decades.)

Perhaps they want to sell the building. That's already been brought up. This university is downsizing. So this may be part of that.
 
They could have exited differently.

The station was paying its way with fundraisers. Give them advance notice, set some boundaries on what would be dumped out of or get them removed from the air, let them go out with enough notice for a farewell broadcast on freaking College Radio Day. Let them use the space, if it wasn't going to be used for something else, to continue streaming (the station had been streaming for decades.)
I can't think of anything in radio more frightening than telling a student run station that they have a day or two to say goodbye. The thought of providing a guaranteed annual income for at least several lawyers as well as the possibility of damaging the college's image due to negative press coverage is of great concern.

There is a reason why fired DJs and staffers at commercial stations are accompanied while picking up personal possessions and escorted out: there are too many horror stories ranging from erasing all the station hard drives to peeing in the production room mixer!
 
The other big part of this is that WCSB receives money from the Student Activity Fee. I don't know how much, but it's a portion of their budget. So every student is paying for the radio station, even though only a small number participate. This is increasingly why colleges are getting out of radio. Not because of the cost to the university, but mainly because of the cost to the students. Especially when there are so many non-students involved in the radio station. There are better ways to spend that money in ways that involve more students.

With operations moving to Ideastream, the students will no longer pay to support the radio station. That money will be directed to some other activity. College owned stations, such as WOSU in Columbus or WOUB in Athens, are professionally run, and therefore don't receive money from the student activity fee. Other college stations are tied in with academic departments, and receive money from those departments rather than the student activity fee.
 
The other big part of this is that WCSB receives money from the Student Activity Fee. I don't know how much, but it's a portion of their budget. So every student is paying for the radio station, even though only a small number participate. This is increasingly why colleges are getting out of radio. Not because of the cost to the university, but mainly because of the cost to the students. Especially when there are so many non-students involved in the radio station. There are better ways to spend that money in ways that involve more students.

With operations moving to Ideastream, the students will no longer pay to support the radio station. That money will be directed to some other activity. College owned stations, such as WOSU in Columbus or WOUB in Athens, are professionally run, and therefore don't receive money from the student activity fee. Other college stations are tied in with academic departments, and receive money from those departments rather than the student activity fee.
Not out of pocket though, their radiothons (Their annual fund raiser) has been very successfull and have covered their costs.

I kinda wonder if they had raised enough for that staff-monitoring serivice you were talking about earlier, which would put the university at ease. Wonder what said staff-monitoring service would cost?
 
Not out of pocket though, their radiothons (Their annual fund raiser) has been very successfull and have covered their costs.

The student fee is automatically charged to all students with their registration. They have no say in how it's spent.

The university president said the radiothon money will be kept by the students for use if they do an online station.

Bloomberg said students have asked about funds raised through radiothons or other measures.

"We have no intention of scraping that money from them," Bloomberg said. "So they have opportunities to invest and think about what they could do next to create a next generation of communications around the topics of primary interest to them.”
 
Oh, the irony...

There's no irony. Ideastream is a local news site and it is their duty to report on the news. They put a giant disclaimer at the bottom of the page saying Ideastream's editor team did not go over the story before it was published.
 
It doesn't matter. It ended. This isn't about Ideastream. It could have been anyone else. Quit blaming Ideastream. The university wanted out of radio. That's it. It would either go to Ideastream or someone else. But it was going to go and quickly. That's how things are done. They make a decision and follow through. It happens every day in radio. It happens every day in real life.

Ideastream is going to give these students more education that they were getting playing music. They will get more education than if the station was sold to anyone else. Give it a chance. I haven't heard you give a better alternative.
I do blame them in part. They could have chosen when to flip the switch. They gave some of the students at best an hours notice on the day. The programmers and on air presenters had less. That could have been done at midnight or on the weekend. So the "LMA partner" does have some blame. And because of their handling, they'll get fewer donations. Which is a problem for everyone in public media right now. It's bad press for the sector. You keep reducing this to "oh some college kids can't play records anymore." Completely misses my point.

People are passionate about things. Wouldn't you prefer they remained passionate about radio? You seem to be really bothered by people not just rolling over and accepting the takeover without any criticism.
I can't think of anything in radio more frightening than telling a student run station that they have a day or two to say goodbye. The thought of providing a guaranteed annual income for at least several lawyers as well as the possibility of damaging the college's image due to negative press coverage is of great concern.

There is a reason why fired DJs and staffers at commercial stations are accompanied while picking up personal possessions and escorted out: there are too many horror stories ranging from erasing all the station hard drives to peeing in the production room mixer!
Oh come on. EMF allows it and they're evangelicals that take over rock stations. This station operated for 30 years. You yourself have claimed college students should be exposed to a variety of viewpoints and decried aspects of our educational system but now these students are such snowflakes that even though they behave themselves enough to be enrolled and on the air, they're going to ruin the college's "image" by having a farewell broadcast?

Puh-leaze. If you want them to act like adults and professionals, maybe treat them that way when taking over an activity they've given their time and energy to at a level people CONTRIBUTE to sustain it. What world are we even living in where students and community broadcasters aren't entitled to basic respect and human dignity? And ya'll wonder why they are perceived as distrusting the system. Maybe those of us with experience and power should give em' fewer reasons.
 
I do blame them in part. They could have chosen when to flip the switch.

The decision was made by the owner. The university owns the station. They wanted the studio shut down. The called the police.

People are passionate about things. Wouldn't you prefer they remained passionate about radio? You seem to be really bothered by people not just rolling over and accepting the takeover without any criticism.

They're basing their opinions on what the students are saying. Nobody is giving the other side. If you only hear one side of the story, it sounds like the students got screwed. That's not the whole story. So all there is is criticism. You're buying their side of the story.
Puh-leaze. If you want them to act like adults and professionals, maybe treat them that way when taking over an activity they've given their time and energy to at a level people CONTRIBUTE to sustain it.

The students aren't acting very adult. They've been given all the money they raised to start an online station. They've been given airtime on Ideastream stations. They've been given paid internships. Ideastream wants to work with them. But they're not taking the opportunities being given. They want to go back to the past.

We can see what they'd do if given an extra day to say goodbye. They would not have said goodbye. They would have used the air signal to mobilize. The university knew that, and wanted to protect their license.
 
"mobilize?"

You mean promote the online station? Their programming isn't competing with Ideastream's anyways. These people aren't destroying property, vandalizing anything. They're connecting online, there was a small silent and peaceful protest, as is their 1st Amendment right (not that I think it will do anything.)

How many paid internships? Not one bit of that programming is going to be on that station. You seem to think they should just shrug and be like "oh well, we put our time and passion into this, so what."

This is getting circular. For some reason you're invested in defending how this went down. I can't understand why, because it's not a good look for radio as a whole. And these students and volunteers aren't bad people. Saying we "can see what they'd do" is pure conjecture. The statements posted by former programmers and staffers have been absolutely classy from what I've seen. No threats, no violence. You're talking about these people like they're the worst of some Occupy protest.
 
"mobilize?"

Did you read the story linked in post 173? The students aren't interested in compromise. They want their station back. That's it.

How many paid internships? Not one bit of that programming is going to be on that station. You seem to think they should just shrug and be like "oh well, we put our time and passion into this, so what."

That was their choice. Nobody forced them. What did they do for the university? How much airtime was given to academic departments for education? How much time was given to the school's sports teams? They should have worked with the school's communications department. That's what most college stations do. They wanted to do their own thing. They didn't work with the station's owner. They had lots of time. They knew their school was downsizing. They thought they were immune.

This is getting circular. For some reason you're invested in defending how this went down.

I'm not defending anything. You're not listening to reason. Just like the students. The facts are all in front of you. The university wanted to get out of radio. They found a willing partner. It's a very sympathetic partner that has offered to work with the students. The students don't want to compromise. They want what they want.

If Ideastream walks away from this, the school will just turn in the license. They want out of radio. This experience just confirms that.
 
Oh come on. EMF allows it and they're evangelicals that take over rock stations.
They allow it sometimes, but only after discussion and legal document signing with radio professionals. This is a big group of student and outside volunteers with "nothing to lose" who would be very tempted to "blow a fart during mass" because they think it is funny or anti-establishment.
This station operated for 30 years. You yourself have claimed college students should be exposed to a variety of viewpoints and decried aspects of our educational system but now these students are such snowflakes that even though they behave themselves enough to be enrolled and on the air, they're going to ruin the college's "image" by having a farewell broadcast?
One thing is exposure to viewpoints, the other is an open mike handed to 19-year-olds.
Puh-leaze. If you want them to act like adults and professionals, maybe treat them that way when taking over an activity they've given their time and energy to at a level people CONTRIBUTE to sustain it. What world are we even living in where students and community broadcasters aren't entitled to basic respect and human dignity?
I'll bet that this was discussed, and the legal advisors encouraged them not to take the risk.
And ya'll wonder why they are perceived as distrusting the system. Maybe those of us with experience and power should give em' fewer reasons.
Educational institutions are very, very cautious. I have tried numerous times to borrow for scanning important radio historical documents and publications from university libraries, and they have all refused; they are afraid of copyright violations should an heir to possible rights to a 1918 magazine might appear.

Why do they do that? A history of bad experiences through being too permissive.
 


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