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WDEL says no to ABC Radio demand and drops Hannity for local talk/news

Way nefore WDEL announced it would drop Hannity, word from competitor WILM was that they would pick up Mark Levin.
To put it another way: DEL was complaining about being "urged" to carry another two hours from ABC (Levin does a two hour show) after a competitor had reportedly already picked up Levin.

Can a move by Hannity to WILM be far behind?

What is strange here is WDEL has consistently drawn a bigger audience than WILM by running syndicated shows against their competitor's mostly local schedule. WILM made news a decade ago by being the first station to drop Rush. The PD claimed the show had "peaked" but - coincidentally - the syndicator (Jacor) had begun to charge stations to carry it.

Before last year, WDEL was running Rush and Hannity. Before that, they had also run two delayed hours of Dr. Laura in the morning (with one local hour - later expanded to three). Now WDEL has become the local station and WILM is becoming mostly syndicated. It would not be surprising if Clear Channel, in full cost-cutting mode, goes all automated - all syndicated at WILM (dropping all local programming and firing the entire local air staff when the station moves to new quarters with new automation-capable equipment).

Two stations have essentially traded formats. Question is: WDEL beat local talk with syndicated talk before. Can it now beat syndicated talk with local talk?

Meanwhile, Hannity's spot on WDEL goes to WILM's former program director - the same one who said Rush had "peaked" back in the mid-90s. Now you know .... the rest of the story.
 
Question is: WDEL beat local talk with syndicated talk before. Can it now beat syndicated talk with local talk?

Answer is, better talk beats worse talk, regardless of where the talker sits.

As a wise man posted in this forum a few days ago, few people seem to realize that listeners usually don't care all that much about whether the voice on the radio originates from a microphone located in their city or one located way far away. The majority of listeners only care if the content of the programs are interesting. An interesting show will beat a less interesting show every time they go head to head, regardless of where the person doing the talking parks his butt.
 
This could work well for either WDEL or WILM. I think radio realist has the right idea. Depending on which programs are well done and the most interesting will be the one's that pull in the most listeners. Like him or hate him, Allan Loudell who was a staple at WILM for 16 years (I believe), who's now at WDEL does have a following which will probably help WDEL ratings wise. For my ear the local talkers on WDEL ( Al Messetti, Rick Jensen, and Jerry Fulchur) some days have interesting topics and other days are real sleepers of course the same can be said for WILM's John Watson). So this may give the satellite talkers a bit of an edge from a consistancy point of view assuming the audience isn't burned out on right wing political talk that is the staple of Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, and apparently soon to be Levine.

Personally, I've tried to listen to Limbaugh and depending what he's discussing depends on how long I'll listen. For my ear, Roger Hedgecock is more interesting to listen to (he fills in sometimes when Rush is out). Hedgecock's show seems to be more news and informational oriented and less personality driven and how much of Limbaugh's "personality" can one listen to each day. Hannity and Savage get old quite quick. They both seem far angerier than Limbaugh. Savage approaches his form of conservatism from a different angle, but he comes across in such a hateful angry manner that he isn't pleasant, to my ear to listen to. He seems to actually hate those who disagree with him and sometimes gets quite verbally abusive to those he disagrees with. Yet, these three are the top 3 talkers, I believe, in the nation. So someone must like their style and message.

My guess would be that those loyal to Limbaugh will continue to listen to Limbaugh no matter which station he's on (at present he's on WILM). Same for Hannity, if he does make the switch to WILM. If what Fred said is true about WILM also agreeing to carrying Mark Levin's show, which, to my ear, would be like having an extra two hours of Hannity, that might cut into the Michael Savage Show. (Limbaugh 12n-3pm, Hannity 3pm-6pm, Levin 6pm-8pm). Of course maybe WILM would keep an hour newscast from 6pm-7pm and go to Levin from 7pm-9pm. My guess is, they won't replace Watson until he's ready to retire. When that day comes along, I'd hope they'd either give Ted Efaw the slot (see comments below) or start airing Glenn Beck at that time slot.

Speaking on the local talk front at WILM, they have a fairly new guy there who does fill in for Watson at times and he's quite good, that's Ted Efaw. He's filling in for Watson this week. He's definitely not a right winger. Ted's a very out spoken and a proud liberal Democrat. He has many of years of talk under his belt (prior to coming to WILM about a year ago). He has great connections and has some great guests on when he's filled in for Watson in the past. Ted is a polished talk show host and in my opinion should be given a talk show. Unfortunately with WILM seeming to be going more satellite talk and less local talk, the opportunity to hear Ted's style of talk in Wilmington may not be often, unless when Watson retires they'd give Ted that timeslot. I believe Ted up against Al on WDEL would be an interesting ratings battle as one is a moderate liberal and the other is a bit more liberal. With Wilmington and New Castle County being a "blue county" who knows just maybe Al and Ted would usher in a less conservative formated talk to that area. As this area isn't a conservative Republican stronghold, at least on each election day, it is curious that Clear Channel thinks that adding more conservative talk to New Castle County would build listeners. Yes that would work in conservative voting Kent County at WDOV, but WILM isn't in Kent County. I guess time will tell how this all shakes out. However, given that WDEL has gone all local talk weekdays and now due to whatever happened between them and ABC radio are again adding more local talk to their weekday format, would WDEL try to lure Ted Efaw away from WILM to fill that new timeslot? Loudell made the switch, it could happen. That in my opinion wouldn't be good for WILM, but it would give Wilmington a new talker that could shake things up a bit.
 
In a further update on this topic, ABC Radio announces another 18 stations have picked up Mark Levin for a total of 91.

No Levin, No Hannity seems to be ABC's new station sales strategy.

Some stations have reported that they have been told they won't continue to get Hannity if they don't also clear another two hours daily from ABC Radio, and Levin does a two hour show.
 
Radio_Realist said:
In a further update on this topic, ABC Radio announces another 18 stations have picked up Mark Levin for a total of 91.

No Levin, No Hannity seems to be ABC's new station sales strategy.

Some stations have reported that they have been told they won't continue to get Hannity if they don't also clear another two hours daily from ABC Radio, and Levin does a two hour show.
Click to expand...
This is great news! Limbaugh, Hannity & Levin on the same station, WILM? Woo hoo! I can reprogram my radio and remove WDEL altogether! Nothing on there but local trash! LOL! I predict WDEL will change its format to country music by year’s end!
 
Radio Realist tells us that ABC Radio announces another 18 stations have picked up Mark Levin for a total of 91. It would be interesting to know how many stations Hannity had prior to this new "marketing skeme" by ABC. Also how many stations, besides WDEL, have dropped Hannity rather than be forced to air another ABC show they don't want.

This sort of reminds me of what some people had said how CBS radio used to operate. If I recall correctly from what I was told by folks who worked at a CBS affiliate, back in the 60's and 70's, that they said that back then CBS radio required their affiliates to air "Arthur Godfrey Time" in order to get the news programming. Apparently by the late 60's and early 70's the demand for Godfrey's show was gone (back in the 1950's at the height of his popularity he had I believe it was 2 radio shows and one TV show all on CBS). Possibly someone here (maybe someone who used to work at the old WCAU in Philly), might be able to shed more light on that story, but apparently this isn't the first time a radio network has tried to force their affiliates to carry unpopular or low rated shows.
 
MikefromDelaware said:
This sort of reminds me of what some people had said how CBS radio used to operate. If I recall correctly from what I was told by folks who worked at a CBS affiliate, back in the 60's and 70's, that they said that back then CBS radio required their affiliates to air "Arthur Godfrey Time" in order to get the news programming. Apparently by the late 60's and early 70's the demand for Godfrey's show was gone (back in the 1950's at the height of his popularity he had I believe it was 2 radio shows and one TV show all on CBS). Possibly someone here (maybe someone who used to work at the old WCAU in Philly), might be able to shed more light on that story, but apparently this isn't the first time a radio network has tried to force their affiliates to carry unpopular or low rated shows.
Click to expand...
Um, so what? ??? Mark Levin is on a Delaware station! ;D That's all I care about. Don't really care where or how. WDEL made a serious mistake and will pay the price! There loss. ::)
 
There's a whole other thread about Levin and ABC's affiliation sales practices, from which the info inserted into this thread was lifted.

Back to the topic of THIS thread:

CBS Radio required stations to take Godfrey as part of the package. Godfrey still had strong ratings in many markets. Even more important, he was the greatest salesman radio has ever - EVER - seen. Avails in the show sold at premium rate and the show was sold out (with advertisers waiting in line). Godfrey did his commercials live and often ad-libbed. It would not have worked for stations to air only the commercials (as happens with some syndicated shows: After dropping Hannity and Dr. Laura, WDEL continued to run their commercials for the balance of the contract. When Rush is preempted, stations still have to run the spots.). With Godfrey, there was no way to take the commercials without taking the whole show; and most stations wanted the whole show.

In 1963, WJR, Detroit (50kw Class I-A clear channel station) re-affiliated with CBS after about five year's as an indie. WJR was the number one station in Detroit (and strong in several other markets in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana). CBS Radio had been without a Detroit affiliate (then the number five market) for much of that time. WJR had been a CBS affiliate since 1933. The network offered 'JR a generous "compensation" arrangement to get back on the station. Part of the deal was Godfrey, but the network "allowed" 'JR to delay the show until 1:10pm, which was considered a major concession. What was so popular in Detroit that WJR insisted on bumping Godfrey (or no deal)? A classical music show and a daily documentary. Before that, the station ran a local variety show with a house orchestra and live staff singers.

Mostly, Godfrey was not a problem for CBS stations, which generally had a full-service format. Godfrey fit in with what they were doing. However, in 1968, CBS flipped to WCBS, WBBM, KNX and KCBS to all news and the station required its own stations, starting with a new and expensive format, to continue to take Godfrey and they did until Godfrey retired in 1973. That may be the only instance of stations being "forced."

CBS continued to run other network programming during the 60s, in addition to Godfrey: A radio version of Art Linkletter's House Party (which began as a radio show), a morning radio show with Gary Moore (he had dropped his morning TV show when he was picked up in prime time) and a talk show with Lucille Ball. That was in addition to 10 minutes of news and a five minute feature (Dimension) each hour. Stations were not forced. A lot of them wanted the package and CBS had an impressive line-up of affiliated stations at the time (during a period when four networks were operating and a lot of stations had decided they could do without a network entirely). It was a station's market (not a network's market) then and CBS did very well with adult-targeted Full Service/MOR stations (talk was not yet a distinct format but the talk format was evolving on many of these stations, including CBS' KMOX and WCAU). If a station was unhappy, they had three other networks plus RPI (a predecessor to UPI Audio and AP Radio).

Godfrey was not seen as a liability; he was an assett. If anything, CBS' rather dull presentation of a 10 minute newscast each hour was the liability.
 
It may be that the unhappiness with Godfrey's show I had heard about was from WCAU after they had gone to a talk format. It's been so long ago, I just don't remember, but thanks for filling in the blanks. It sounds like, from what you are saying that CBS radio more so than the the other networks tried to keep their network as an entertainment venue longer and not just be a news service as ABC, NBC, and Mutual. The best I remember, other than NBC's Monitor and Emphasis commentaries, and Meet the Press, I don't remember other NBC shows in the late 60's and into the 70's as being in the entertainment venue. ABC had Paul Harvey and their four networks for news and their Sunday Issues and Answers newstalk show, and Mutual had Larry King for late night talk and Capital Cloakroom.
 
Network Radio in the 60s

MikefromDelaware said:
It may be that the unhappiness with Godfrey's show I had heard about was from WCAU after they had gone to a talk format. It's been so long ago, I just don't remember, but thanks for filling in the blanks. It sounds like, from what you are saying that CBS radio more so than the the other networks tried to keep their network as an entertainment venue longer and not just be a news service as ABC, NBC, and Mutual. The best I remember, other than NBC's Monitor and Emphasis commentaries, and Meet the Press, I don't remember other NBC shows in the late 60's and into the 70's as being in the entertainment venue. ABC had Paul Harvey and their four networks for news and their Sunday Issues and Answers newstalk show, and Mutual had Larry King for late night talk and Capital Cloakroom.
Click to expand...

NBC had discontinued entertainment programming (except for Monitor) in 1958. In the late 50s and early 60s, NBC ran Monitor on the weeknights as well as 40 hours on the weekends. Then it cut Monitor back to the 16 hour weekend schedule it maintained into the early 70s.

ABC did not begin four network operation until 1968. Pior to that they ran hourly news "live at 55" and ABC Reports (originally called "Flair Reports"). Flair Reports, which gave the first national exposure to Ted Koppel and Charles Osgood, started as a Today Show-like news and feature program hosted by Dick Van Dyke. Stations were given the option of running Flair as a long-form program or running individual segments (which carried the title Flair Reports). ABC also continued to run the Breakfast Club, a variety show from show Chicago in direct competition with Godfrey, after the four-network split until the end of 1969. And during this period, ABC carried the Texaco Metropolitan Opera broadcasts. In addition, ABC ran news broadcasts from several commentators besides Paul Harvey (at various times Alex Drier, Edward P. Morgan, Quincy Howe and even, at the end, Mort Crimm). ABC promoted this as their "spectrum" policy, under which they carried commentaries representing a range of viewpoints (now ABC is all conservative, all the time).

Larry King did not come along on Mutual until 1978, taking over the show from Long John Nebel. During the 60s and early 70s, Mutual did news on the hour (sustaining) and half-hour, with no feature program. Mutual also had a heavy sports schedule. During the 60s they ran a baseball game every day in season (The Mutual Game of the Day) and carried (at various times) Notre Dame and Army football on the weekends. They also had rights to the World Series and All Star game during much of the time, and when Monday Night Football started, Mutual had the rights to that.

CBS kept airing radio dramas until 1963 and daytime soaps until 1960. They continued the Sunday New York Philharmonic broadcasts for much of the 60s. Of the major networks back then, CBS was the only one without a Wilmington affiliate (now it's the only one with a Wilmington affiliate).
 
Wilmington, DE listeners: The Levin fan Web site says he will be on WILM from 10 pm to midnight starting 1/15/07.

Looks like Savage will stay 7-10 pm. Levin will displace the first two live hours of Jim Bohannon. All of Bohannon's show can still be heard on WILM from midnight to 3 am and then 3-5am - the station had been carrying it from 10 pm to 5 am, repeating the entire show once and airing the first hour a third time from 4-5am.
 
Scott, according to Fighting Irish's post on Ask Radio-Info, these are sites that spawned yesterday's "invasion" of the board by Mark Levin fans. I have no reason to think you were part of that but under the cirumstances I question promoting those sites now.
 
RE

fred flintstone said:
Scott, according to Fighting Irish's post on Ask Radio-Info, these are sites that spawned yesterday's "invasion" of the board by Mark Levin fans. I have no reason to think you were part of that but under the cirumstances I question promoting those sites now.
Click to expand...
Not promoting the sites. Just citing where I found my info. Couldn't find that info anywhere else, sorry.

Where is Fighting Irish's post?
 
RE

Here it is.

FightingIrish said:
Cleanup needed in News/Talk

On this thread:

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,59940.0.html


We're being invaded by another board.

I'm still looking for the thread telling people to attack R-I, but as far as I can tell, many of these newbies came over from one or both of these two sites:

http://www.marklevinfan.com/forum/index.php
http://www.freerepublic.com

This thread is turning into an insipid flame war, and really needs to get shut down.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
No please, don't shut it down! Not right at the same moment I have taken the time to sign up and post a message here for the first time. This is what I came here for.

I am working on a response to these allegations. I will be posting it shortly and I hope to answer any and all concerns about the methods used by the affiliate teams for both the Hannity and Levin shows. I lead those teams, so unlike some of the posters I have seen here, I do actually know what I am talking about.

But while I am off working on my response to this thread, take a moment to read the following which was released by ABC today. For a show that has to use extortion to get cleared, it does a pretty good job delivering ratings in the #1 market in America.

[EDIT]


By the way this is the first time I have seen this board, but it looks really good. My compliments to those responsible. And despite some of the more ridiculous posts I have seen on this thread, it does appear there are some smart people here talking about one of my favorite topics, so maybe I will have to stick around.

Phil Boyce
VP of News/Talk Programming
ABC Radio
WABC Radio
The Sean Hannity Show
The Mark Levin Show





[EDIT-post truncated because originating material is copyprotected. Unauthorized use of copyrighted content is in violation of Radio-Info's TOS.]
 
RE

FightingIrish had absolutely no proof to back up his claim--he merely speculated that Levin fans were coming from the Levin forum and/or Free Republic.

If they were directed here, it surely is a mystery to the Levin forum users: I just clicked there, ran a search for "radio-info" "radio info" "r-i" and got nothing pointing to this site.

Mere speculation, gentlemen. And note, FightingIrish admits that he can't find any thread saying "go to Radio-Info". But apparently, his speculation is better than any actual evidence.

And coupled with that speculation was a directive that the thread be shut down. There's open dialogue for you.

And welcome, Phil Boyce. I'm available, should you need another lawyer as a talk host! :)
 
Johnny Morgan said:
And welcome, Phil Boyce. I'm available, should you need another lawyer as a talk host! :)
Click to expand...

Apparently, the qualifications to be a talk show host in New York are (a) Lawyer, (b) Subway vigilante or (c) to inherit a radio show from your grandfather.

Mr. Boyce justifies his decision to put Lawyer Levin on his station with ratings. WABC has always had ratings. Once WABC was a truly class act with legendary broadcasters like Ross and Wilson, Michael Jackson, Lynn Samuels, Joy Behar. He brought in hostile and hate-filled demagogues like Bob Grant. He filled the station with syndicated programming (and did the same to the equally legendary Great Voice of the Great Lakes). His station has no real competition within its format yet he justifies his decision to go with syndicated hate by quoting ratings.

Now he's going to give us THE TRUTH and we should believe him because he was there. Well, so was Holland Cooke.

364 days are year WABC is unlistenable. The exception, of course, is Memorial Day.
 
Phil Boyce, thanks for bringing the Mark Levin Show to WILM!!! Woo hoo! :D ;D 8)

Now, if you could just "persuade" them to broadcast the show live... ;)
 
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