WDEL says no to ABC Radio demand and drops Hannity for local talk/news

[Phil Boyce]

RE

One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a lot of posters here using fake names. I guess that allows them to hide behind their anonymity. This guy named Secret Squirrel (I would use a different rodent if I were him) makes the following post that borders on slander:

I have heard from several very credible sources that WABC PD Phil Boyce has a personal financial stake in both the Sean Hannity program and the Mark Levin show.

I've also heard from credible sources that Boyce is behind Levin's expansion to several major markets, including San Francisco and Washington, DC. By "behind," I mean that he strong-armed Levin into the line-up. (Similar to what was described as the pressure to WDEL and WPRO.)

Isn't this some sort of conflict of interest? If Boyce has a personal financial interest in these shows and is pushing them as an ABC/Disney employee (VP) -- then he's personally benefiting from corporate programming.

Anyone else have any info/insight?

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Why didn't you just send me an e-mail and ask me? If you are going to slander me here on a public message board, how about growing a pair and giving your real name. And while you are at it, name your so called credible sources. Sorry to report, they are not so credible. I get nothing from my efforts running the Levin show, other than a really warm glow when I see how well he has done. Call it a labor of love if you want, but I absolutely love this guy, and everything he does. I am thrilled to be able to help him hit 91 stations in less than a year, and no, I have no conflict of interest. But I will readily admit ABC SHOULD be paying me TONS of dough for turning this into another hit for the company.

So let me get this straight. I find this guy Mark Levin and give him his first ever radio gig. It was a two hour show on Sunday afternoon and my GM was too cheap (love ya Tim) to even pay him anything. But I told Mark I would let him do the show for free for awhile and his pay would be me teaching him how to do a talk show. So he does this, and shows me something right out of the gate. The guy REALLY wants to do this. As a PD you just KILL to find a guy like this. Smart, funny, and willing to do anything to make it happen including working for free for almost a year to learn how to do it.

After he got really good I then really needed him. I had to blow Savage out and needed somebody really good to beat him, since Savage was going across the street to WOR. I picked Mark...and wow did he not let me down. He beat Savage in his first book. That was 14 books ago...and Mark has beaten Savage in all but one. The 14th book was the one we got today...which I posted earlier here.

So after Mark does so well I get this brilliant idea to syndicate him through ABC. I knew a little about doing it since I had originally syndicated Matt Drudge out of WABC on Sunday night...and the followed that up with a little show called Sean Hannity that is now on 515 stations. I went to all my PD buddies running the 7 greatest talk stations on the planet. I expected 4 might pick Mark up and help me get this thing off the ground. Wow was I shocked when all 7 ABC markets picked him up right now of the gate. Now it has been written here that I somehow strong-armed the other PD's to take the show, but we just don't work that way at ABC. I serve as the VP of News/Talk Programming and I appreciate the folks who have tried to turn me into some kind of Jabba the Hut King of the World, but it does not work that way. I act as the group format consultant for News/Talk. I advise, and sometimes cajole. I work directly with the President of the radio division....but I do not have the power to force any of our PD's to take any show. They all work for their GM's and ABC is well known for giving local autonomy.

Does anybody really think that ABC is going to allow me to cram a bad show down the throats of 7 of the biggest and best News/Talk PD's in America including Jack Swanson...in which I personally gain financially, and live to tell about it? Do ya think the Disney lawyers would be breathing down my neck? What a stupid thing to suggest...and more than that it is slander of my good name. Sorry guys...I hope ABC will pay me someday for all the work I have done turning Levin into this multi-million dollar property for the company...but as of today and this moment, all I have are a few congratulatory e-mails.

I am going to get to this ridiculous notion that ABC is using extortion and coersion to force stations to carry Levin (like that would ever work). I am working on it...be patient...

to be continued.......

 

[Johnny Morgan]

RE

qualifications to be a talk show host in New York

Well, I do have prior radio on-air and management experience.

And now, broadcast representation experience as well. I'm sort of a triple-threat.

Should anyone be interested. ;D

 

[Phil Boyce]

RE

OK now we are talking trash! I LOVE this board. Fred Flintstone wants to take me on. Ok Fred, hit me with your best shot!

Apparently, the qualifications to be a talk show host in New York are (a) Lawyer, (b) Subway vigilante or (c) to inherit a radio show from your grandfather.

Right about that...you can be just about ANYTHING, if you can walk in the door, do a great show, be smart and witty and compelling...and eventually deliver me ratings. What a country! The thing I love about this job is that I can give almost anybody a chance...if I think they have the right stuff. Since I have turned three of my guys into national super-stars (Hannity, Levin, Drudge) and created one of the top morning shows in New York City (Curtis and Kuby), I have earned the right to do that. Not bad, huh!

Mr. Boyce justifies his decision to put Lawyer Levin on his station with ratings. WABC has always had ratings.

Yes, what a horrible thing I have done. I created a show that gets RATINGS! Oh...what is the world coming to. I have programmed WABC for nexarly 12 years and with the excepotion of Rush Limbaugh none of the shows were here when I got here...so if it gets ratings, could it possibly be that listeners really like the station and like the hosts? What a shocking idea. Or do you think listeners just keep listening for years and years to bad hosts, just because they can't figure out how to turn the station off 770?

Once WABC was a truly class act with legendary broadcasters like Ross and Wilson, Michael Jackson, Lynn Samuels, Joy Behar.

Yes, those are legendary broadcasters if I ever heard of one. They all should be inducted immediately into the Radio Hall of Fame.

He brought in hostile and hate-filled demagogues like Bob Grant.

I did not bring Bob in, that would have been Mark Mason who now programs WINS...but I commend him for picking a great air talent. Unfortunately I was the guy who had to fire Bob Grant...not hire him...but never let the facts get in the way of your ranting.

He filled the station with syndicated programming (and did the same to the equally legendary Great Voice of the Great Lakes).

I did not fill the station with syndicated programming. Rush was already there thank God...but what I did was find really great LOCAL hosts like Hannity, Drudge, and Levin...and then I helped turn them into national super-stars, making MILLIONS of dollars in profit for my station and for my company. Wow, I am so ashamed. Speaking of WJR, the Great Voice of the Great Lakes, I did not bring in any syndicated shows, but I did hire Paul W. Smith who later turned into the morning man and Mitch Albom who later turned into the afternoon man...so I guess I really DO know how to pick air talent.

His station has no real competition within its format yet he justifies his decision to go with syndicated hate by quoting ratings.

There are 47 radio stations in New York City including 6 on the AM band that I compete with...so to suggest I have no competition is just moronic. They ALL want a piece of my audience. I fight off every one of them.

Now he's going to give us THE TRUTH and we should believe him because he was there. Well, so was Holland Cooke.

Huh? I like Holland but he was never at WABC...and since I am and was...I think you should believe me. Or you can believe this moron with the nice nickname, who takes cheap shots hiding behind his anonymity.

pb

 

[Scott in DE]

Wow! This is a great thread! ;D I think I will have to stick around!

 

[Phil Boyce]

OK.....ONE more and then I have to go to bed. Before I answer this post, I should provide a disclaimer. Holland Cooke is a friend of mine and a respected consultant. But it should also be noted (as he did admit to his credit) that he is a consultant working for WDEL so he is paid by them to make them better. If I were him I would not be happy to lose Hannity to WILM either. But then he says this:

RE "ABC Extorts Another 18 Stations to Clear Levin..."
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 10:11:50 am »
Reply with quoteQuote
...then, BOASTS about his growing station roster, as though marketplace demand for yet-more if-you-disagree-with-me-you're-"a liberal"- programming was growing it!

Gee, give us a break Holland. It was a press release. If you can't boast in a press release, where CAN you boast! Holland appears to be sayiung that ABC extorted and coerced these new 18 stations to take Levin, threatening to cancel Hannity of they didn't. I should say that I sent Holland an e-mail suggesting he come on this board and correct his mis-perception, or I would come here and do it myself. We had a nice exchange, but he chose to allow ME to do this, which I am happy to do.

Of the 18 stations we announced this week getting us to 91 total, none of them were coerced or extorted or threatened in anyway. The list of stations is in the press release which is probably out there somewhere for somebody to verify. Holland explained to me that there is a feeling among a few people on this board (he did not say who) that we were using strong arm tactics to grow Levin. It is simply not true. We don't have to. Mark's show is great and is growing organically. It is a natural fit with Hannity and we have taken advantage of the relationship between the two shows but we have never abused it.

I would rather not go into the real reason why WDEL lost the show because it would involve revealing some information that I think should be left confidential. I will say that we went out of our way to offer WDEL the chance to keep Hannity and Levin was that chance. I really hoped they would do it. They chose not too, and we moved on to WILM. Life goes on, but this was an unusual situation. There are maybe two other stations out there, out of the 91 affiliates, where we moved Hannity to get Levin...or to get live clears for both shows. In both of those cases, like with WDEL, there were extenuating circumstances that I would rather not reveal. In each case we had a reason for doing what we did, but we wish the stations well and hope they understand it was a business decision.

Oneof the things I love about Sean Hannity is that he is a true radio pro. He loves radio, and has gone out of his way to get to know all of his PD's and GM's on a personal level. We would never abuse that relationship and tarnish Sean's good name by forcing a station to take Mark Levin that did not want him. I can say this without fear of contradiction...not a single station out of those 91 does not want Mark Levin.

Here in NYC, Mark just scored a 79% increase in 25-54 listeners in this weeks Fall book and is beating Savage and everything else on the AM band in every demo....and I posted those numbers in an earlier thread. But more importantly for me, Mark is scoring on every single one of the ABC NewsTalkers that believed in him from the start. At WLS where Mark took over the 10pm slot, his numbers improved 207% 25-54. At WMAL where Mark is on live at 6pm, we were up 81% 25-54. Both WJR and KSFO saw 95% gains in 25-54. These are not flukes...the show is a real hit. In Naples-Fort Myers, Mark jumped 600% at 10pm, prompting the local station to move him up to a live clear at 6pm...bumping Savage to another station. That does not happen by accident.

Holland takes a little shot at Mark above, claiming it is not marketplace demand that is causing the growth of the show. It absolutely IS marketplace demand. This notion that the show is growing through extortion is not only ridiculous and impossible for anybody here to substantiate...it is an insult to me, my hosts, and to the hard working people on the affiliate relations team at ABC.

If anybody wants to claim that we're doing that....have the guts to post your name and your station. I'd love to further this conversation.

pb

 

[Phil Boyce]

RE

[EDIT]

But ABCRN doesn't really care if Hannity loses a few thousand listeners here or there if it builds Levin, who is unlistenable and belongs as a local on WABC, a 100-station affil sheet.

Let me educate you for a moment about how this works. When you refer to ABCRN in this context you are talking about me. I run both these shows for the network, even though I do not really work for the network. Every tactic and move by both these shows go through me...and the two hosts involved. Hannity and Levin are those hosts who work with me and we develop our strategy. It is silly to say we don't care about a few thousand listeners. We care about them all. But to claim Levin is unlistenable, after he has scored in virtually every market where we have placed him....from coast to coast, in a variety of different dayparts...is simply moronic. How could a guy who is unlistenable be #1 on the AM band in NYC 13 of the last 14 books? You don't have to like him or listen to him...but tons of people do. That is why he is growing.

It's working pretty well, since most affils are willing to shove Levin on just before midnight, since they probably weren't running anything much better anyway.

We have soime great late night affiliates. We just added WDBO at 10pm, and we have been clearing him on WFLA and WIOD in that slot for awhile. WJR airs him at 11pm, and WLS at 10pm. The great thing about Mark's show is that it airs live at 6pm ET so by 10pm or so it is still fresh. I know what you were trying to do here, taking a stupid shot at Mark for getting some late night clears. Sorry dufus...doesn't fly. Mark does have a lot of live clears and is getting more all the time. This is how you build a nationally syndicated talk show, which you appear to know nothing about.

Would you agree, though, Holland, that syndicators like TRN and ABCRN who specialize in clearing shows using method at least offer independent operators a chance to compete with CC, Cumulus, etc. from a syndicated programming perspective?

Huh? I wish I understood what you were trying to say here and I would try to help you out a little but I really can't figure it out. Nice try though.

To the guy who said it wasn't Levin, his show is two hours (vs. other 3-hr shows they would also want fully cleared) and is the only show ABC cares about now. Mark Davis got thrown under the bus in short order and doesn't have a chance at 10 top 100 affils. Who else is left? Larry Elder?

It is not true that ABC does not care about Mark Davis or Larry Elder. It is true that I don't directly supervise those shows and I do supervise Hannity and Levin, so I can't speak for how those shows are marketed or affiliated. I do think Mark and Larry are both great hosts and I wish them great success. The truth is, a show creates buzz, and once that buzz starts to grow, more PD's notice and start to pick up the show. I found this with Drudge...Hannity, and now with Levin. There is a buzz about this show and it is taking off.

[EDIT-inflammatory]

Anybody else want to make ridiculous unsubstantiated claims about how we do business? Love to chat.

pb

 

[FightingIrish]

FightingIrish had absolutely no proof to back up his claim--he merely speculated that Levin fans were coming from the Levin forum and/or Free Republic.

If they were directed here, it surely is a mystery to the Levin forum users: I just clicked there, ran a search for "radio-info" "radio info" "r-i" and got nothing pointing to this site.

Mere speculation, gentlemen. And note, FightingIrish admits that he can't find any thread saying "go to Radio-Info". But apparently, his speculation is better than any actual evidence.

And coupled with that speculation was a directive that the thread be shut down. There's open dialogue for you.

Many of the new posters on these Levin threads do post on both of those boards. I just Googled the usernames.

 

[Johnny Morgan]

OK. Good enough. My apologies for any tone.

 

[Scott in DE]

RE

No please, don't shut it down! Not right at the same moment I have taken the time to sign up and post a message here for the first time. This is what I came here for.

I am working on a response to these allegations. I will be posting it shortly and I hope to answer any and all concerns about the methods used by the affiliate teams for both the Hannity and Levin shows. I lead those teams, so unlike some of the posters I have seen here, I do actually know what I am talking about.

But while I am off working on my response to this thread, take a moment to read the following which was released by ABC today. For a show that has to use extortion to get cleared, it does a pretty good job delivering ratings in the #1 market in America.

[EDIT]


By the way this is the first time I have seen this board, but it looks really good. My compliments to those responsible. And despite some of the more ridiculous posts I have seen on this thread, it does appear there are some smart people here talking about one of my favorite topics, so maybe I will have to stick around.

Phil Boyce
VP of News/Talk Programming
ABC Radio
WABC Radio
The Sean Hannity Show
The Mark Levin Show





[EDIT-post truncated because originating material is copyprotected. Unauthorized use of copyrighted content is in violation of Radio-Info's TOS.]

What the heck is this "Unauthorized use of copyrighted content" BS?

Phil Boyce WROTE that press release, I would imagine! Wouldn't that give him the authorization to use it anywhere he pleases?

Methinks the moderator just wanted to remove that info from this forum and used that as an excuse! Sheeesh!

 

[evnlee]

RE

No please, don't shut it down! Not right at the same moment I have taken the time to sign up and post a message here for the first time. This is what I came here for.

I am working on a response to these allegations. I will be posting it shortly and I hope to answer any and all concerns about the methods used by the affiliate teams for both the Hannity and Levin shows. I lead those teams, so unlike some of the posters I have seen here, I do actually know what I am talking about.

But while I am off working on my response to this thread, take a moment to read the following which was released by ABC today. For a show that has to use extortion to get cleared, it does a pretty good job delivering ratings in the #1 market in America.

[EDIT]


By the way this is the first time I have seen this board, but it looks really good. My compliments to those responsible. And despite some of the more ridiculous posts I have seen on this thread, it does appear there are some smart people here talking about one of my favorite topics, so maybe I will have to stick around.

Phil Boyce
VP of News/Talk Programming
ABC Radio
WABC Radio
The Sean Hannity Show
The Mark Levin Show





[EDIT-post truncated because originating material is copyprotected. Unauthorized use of copyrighted content is in violation of Radio-Info's TOS.]

What the heck is this "Unauthorized use of copyrighted content" BS?

Phil Boyce WROTE that press release, I would imagine! Wouldn't that give him the authorization to use it anywhere he pleases?

Methinks the moderator just wanted to remove that info from this forum and used that as an excuse! Sheeesh!

Amen! Keepin it real!

Phil Boyce, I like the way you speak. Don't know you, but you are telling it like it is.

 

[evnlee]

Now he's going to give us THE TRUTH and we should believe him because he was there. Well, so was Holland Cooke.

Huh? I like Holland but he was never at WABC...and since I am and was...I think you should believe me. Or you can believe this moron with the nice nickname, who takes cheap shots hiding behind his anonymity.

yikes! Fred? Holland? ......Response? :

 

[fred flintstone]

RE Out of the Woodwork

Amazing! I post about ABC Radio's programs sales tactics. Not about the program or the host. And look what comes out of the woodwork! First, his minions attack this board. Then his boss shows up. There's think skin here someplace.

Why do people here use anonymous names, Phil? Because those of us who work in the biz can expect retaliation from people like you should we post anything critical of or unfavorable to the business or anyone in it. Even with anonymous names, people get outed. Radio people can't deal with criticism; a sign of both their personal shallowness and insecurity.

Now you are going to tell us The Truth about how ABC syndication sales dealt with WDEL (and other stations) because you were there? There where? At WDEL when they got the word? You have posted nothing to suggest that you have any direct involvement in affiliate relations or syndication sales. It's not something show producers or PDs normally do.

You talk about having a pair but you are not willing to admit to what is not an uncommon practice in the syndication business. 500-pound Gorilla ABC Radio used an established show as leverage to get clearance for other shows - and yanked the show from a small locally-owned station that wouldn't play ball. Somebody posts that and y'all get your shorts twisted. It's not illegal. It's not unprecedented. If this makes ABC Radio look like bullies, maybe y'all will think twice before you do it again.

Of course, it's not entirely clear who was throwing their weight around here. Last month in Madison, WI a local station manager told the newspaper there that Jones Radio had pulled Ed Schultz (maybe you've heard of him; one of those liberal talkers people like you claim can "never work" as justification to turning talk radio into a shill for the Republican party). This GM said Big Ed got yanked because Clear Channel, the 1200-pound Gorilla, wanted the show and Clear Channel is Clear Channel. So maybe Clear Channel made the call in this case and told your syndication sales people to pull the show. Wonder how CC would twist ABC Radio's arms? Maybe pull Rush. It is sort of incestuous: CC sells you Rush; you sell CC Hannity. In all fairness, maybe it's not ABC bullying WDEL. Maybe it's Clear Channel bullying you. (Rush on WOR! What an interesting thought.)

But either way, this is how people in radio do business. God forbid the truth comes out that radio people are mostly nasty SOBs who lie for a living to the point they don't even know when they are lying and who stab others in the back without a second thought.

Does anybody really think that ABC is going to allow me to cram a bad show down the throats of 7 of the biggest and best News/Talk PD's in America

Sure. It happens. "Bad" is subjective. One right-wing rant fest is pretty much like another and ABC Radio can make more money running (and selling) its own show on its own stations (and in selling it to other stations) than taking a show from another syndicator - whether or not the ratings of the two shows are comparable. Besides, this is evening we're talking about here - radio dead time.

Radio people will not only yank programming that performs well for money (or the possibility of money) but to give a job to their girl friend or the boss' nephew's friend. Radio people make changes just to justify their existence (and salary); new PDs typically fire at least some of the people the last guy hired. And radio people are rabidly competitive - more focused on other broadcasters than on listeners. Are you pushing Levin to stick it to Savage? I did detect some combative fervor in your post. And things like that do happen. Heck, it appears WDEL hired a guy away from Clear Channel to stick it to CC for yanking Rush.

I get nothing from my efforts running the Levin show, other than a really warm glow when I see how well he has done.

Really. No kidding? Well, except you get paid and you also posted that you have an equity stake in the show. This is what I mean when I say people in radio are compulsive liars. It's like eating peanuts with them; they start and they can't stop.

And you brag that you will give somebody who "walk(s) in the door" their "first job." God forbid a talk show host should learn his trade in small markets, like Rush did. Rush stands out because he knows how to do a radio show. Right-wing talk is his format. Radio is what he does. That's why he's entertaining and the rest just rant. But local hosts in small markets cuts into the syndication business (unless ABC and Clear Channel yank a small station's syndicated shows and their only option is to go local - like in Wilmington and Madison).

Apparently you think anybody who can bitch at length without pausing for breath can do a talk show and the great "boobocracy" won't care as long as it is pandered to and told what it wants to hear. We've already experienced the kind of people who listen to Shyster Levin and Drudge on this board. I'm surprised you haven't given Maloney another shot, too. Sounds like your kind of guy. Oh, wait! He has done radio before. That rules him out.

All I ask is don't muck up KGO, the only class act left to ABC.

And thank you for replying here, rather than following what appears to be normal ABC practice to turn the lawyers loose to shut down any blog or site on which criticism of the company or its programming appears.

 

[Phil Boyce]

Wow, very interesting what happened here. Last night I posted an in depth response to Fred Flintstones ridiculous attack on WABC, all my hosts, and my service as PD of the nations most listened to News/Talk radio station. This morning I come back here and see that my entire post has been removed....however the original post including Fred's stupid rambling about how WABC is only interested in ratings...and bragging about ancient hosts who no longer work here...is still there.

So let me get this straight. This board exists to allow idiots using fake names to say anything they want about me and WABC...but if I come here to defend myself....my posts get removed with NO explanation.

So much for free speech. Since I am the moderator of the message board on Hannity.com...with over 61,000 members, maybe I need to take this thread over there, where I can post what I want without fear of censorship.

This is despicable. You allow people to attack me, but when I come here to defend myself you remove my defense. Yet the original attack is allowed to remain...using posters with fake names. I am not using a fake name...I am out here for all to see.

What wimps you people must be. What is the explanation for this?

Phil Boyce
VP of News/Talk Programming
ABC Radio
WABC Radio
The Sean Hannity Show
The Mark Levin Show

 

[Phil Boyce]

And one more thing. I just noticed that the post I made defending myself against the slander of Secret Squirrel was also removed....but the original slanderous post making accusations against me and my character was allowed to remain. So this board exists to allow anonymous posters who know less than nothing about what they are talking about to publicly slander me....by name....but when I come here to defend myself and deny those allegations...that post is removed.

You people are pathetic. I was going to ignore that post that I consider defamation of my character and allow my response to be the answer. But since my response is NOT allowed...and yet this persons post IS allowed, maybe this time I need a lawyer. I wonder where I will find one....hmmm. Do I know any really good lawyers that might take this case?

pb

 

[Ultimajock]

...if nothing else, I think we've just seen one of Phil Boyce's prime programming points -- the ability to make the next point of Hannity's (and Levin's?) complaints out of a personal misunderstanding ;-) ...

 

[fred flintstone]

And one more thing. I just noticed that the post I made defending myself against the slander of Secret Squirrel was also removed....but the original slanderous post making accusations against me and my character was allowed to remain. So this board exists to allow anonymous posters who know less than nothing about what they are talking about to publicly slander me....by name....but when I come here to defend myself and deny those allegations...that post is removed.

You people are pathetic. I was going to ignore that post that I consider defamation of my character and allow my response to be the answer. But since my response is NOT allowed...and yet this persons post IS allowed, maybe this time I need a lawyer. I wonder where I will find one....hmmm. Do I know any really good lawyers that might take this case?

pb

Well, there's the lawyers ABC used to shut down Spocko's website after he dared criticize KSFO for hate speech.
Don't Say Nothin' Bad About an ABC-owned Station.

Since really good lawyers make more than even syndicated talk show hosts, I guess if Levin were a really good lawyer, he'd still be practicing law.

BTW: Some of your posts (like some of mine) were moved - not removed. You have call screeners and a delay system. You don't let anybody on your air to say anything they want. This site is no different. See the Terms of Service. If you have a complaint, email the Managing Board Editor. Nice guy. Always willing to respond to and consider complaints and answer questions.

That said: I ask MBE to reconsider the decision to move part of this thread. Mr. Boyce came on here to respond and debate. Instead of the cheap shots and name calling that often pass for debate here without being responsive to points that have been raised, Mr. Boyce made his case with logic and specific detail. The debate was heated but I don't see how it violated the TOS - unless the moderators want to avoid all meaningful debate and discourse. I say remove the cheap shots and insults but if someone comes here to make their case for any viewpoint, leave them be.

 

[Phil Boyce]

OK good..thanks for not removing them. I am the moderator of Hannity.com's message board, and when we move a post to another section, we leave a trail explaining that the post has been removed. To take my post out of the middle of the discussion with no explanation seems odd to me. It also seems odd that I was responded to the posts inside the same thread where the original posts were made. So if anybody attempts to come here and read my response...they have to go look for it in a different thread. That makes no sense. I am attempting to clear my name, and also to explain how ABC really works. It makes it hard to do, when my answers are removed...but the original comments are allowed to remain.

pb

 

[Phil Boyce]

Re: RE:WDEL says no to ABC Radio demand and drops Hannity for local talk/news

Fred: I know I called you a moron. Maybe a bit strong. Maybe just ill-informed. I appreciate the fact that you are willing to engage me in debate. Let's get after it.

There's think skin here someplace.

Wait a minute, vicious attacks are made here about how we do business at ABC and so I come here, using my real name, to defend our practices and correct the misperceptions of some anonymous posters here, and then you say we are thin skinned. I was told by Holland Cooke that it was a good idea to come here and correct the misperception, so that is all I am doing.

Why do people here use anonymous names, Phil? Because those of us who work in the biz can expect retaliation from people like you should we post anything critical of or unfavorable to the business or anyone in it. Even with anonymous names, people get outed. Radio people can't deal with criticism; a sign of both their personal shallowness and insecurity.

It is one thing to come here anonymously and post opinions that might be critical in a sensitive area. It is another to come here as Secret Squirrel did, post a completely untrue fabrication about me, using my real name and company, and then run back into his little Squirrel hole leaving me to have to come here to defend myself against a libelous (thanks for the correction Johnny) personal attack. THAT is what is sick and twisted.

Now you are going to tell us The Truth about how ABC syndication sales dealt with WDEL (and other stations) because you were there? There where? At WDEL when they got the word? You have posted nothing to suggest that you have any direct involvement in affiliate relations or syndication sales. It's not something show producers or PDs normally do.

Maybe you did not read my entire post, so let me repeat. I run both the Hannity and Levin affiliation teams. You are right...it is NOT something a pd or producer normally does. I am not normal. The strategy for dealing with affiliates for both shows comes from me and the affiliation team, with daily discussion with Mark and Sean. I am not aware of two shows like this, where the hosts are personally involved in the daily decisions, and the PD who runs the show is also. It is unusual, and perhaps an explanation for our success. I don't know...but it works.

You talk about having a pair but you are not willing to admit to what is not an uncommon practice in the syndication business. 500-pound Gorilla ABC Radio used an established show as leverage to get clearance for other shows - and yanked the show from a small locally-owned station that wouldn't play ball. Somebody posts that and y'all get your shorts twisted. It's not illegal. It's not unprecedented. If this makes ABC Radio look like bullies, maybe y'all will think twice before you do it again.

I assume you are talking about WDEL. As I said before, there are only three stations, out of 91, where I can remember us having this KIND of situation. Each one was different and each one involved extenuating circumstances. I am perfectly willing to admit that it is common practice in the syndication world to use one show to leverage another. I am telling you that we do this sparingly, and only when there are extenuating circumstances. In the case of WDEL I would rather not go public with what that is...but I can tell you that we offered them a chance to keep Hannity. Asking them to clear Mark, a show that is hot as fire, and the fastest growing show in America, was not an unreasonable request. We could have just canceled Hannity if we wanted to. We mulled over this one for a long time, and made a business decision. It was not a bad decision...it may have seemed that way to WDEL. We wish them well and life goes on.

Of course, it's not entirely clear who was throwing their weight around here. Last month in Madison, WI a local station manager told the newspaper there that Jones Radio had pulled Ed Schultz (maybe you've heard of him; one of those liberal talkers people like you claim can "never work" as justification to turning talk radio into a shill for the Republican party). This GM said Big Ed got yanked because Clear Channel, the 1200-pound Gorilla, wanted the show and Clear Channel is Clear Channel. So maybe Clear Channel made the call in this case and told your syndication sales people to pull the show.

No, that did not happen. We have a great relationship with Clear Channel. Sean is on 90 of their stations, and many of Mark's stations are also Clear Channel. They like both shows and are using them well. But in this case I can promise you there was no pressure from Clear Channel to take the show. It was strictly a decision by me, Sean, Mark, and the affiliate team that works so hard to clear both shows.

Wonder how CC would twist ABC Radio's arms? Maybe pull Rush. It is sort of incestuous: CC sells you Rush; you sell CC Hannity. In all fairness, maybe it's not ABC bullying WDEL. Maybe it's Clear Channel bullying you. (Rush on WOR! What an interesting thought.)

We have a great relationship with Clear Channel. They own Rush. He airs on WABC. We are obviously owned by ABC and Rush gets is highest audience from WABC of any station. It is a good partnership. They have never bullied us...not that it could never happen...it just never has.

But either way, this is how people in radio do business. God forbid the truth comes out that radio people are mostly nasty SOBs who lie for a living to the point they don't even know when they are lying and who stab others in the back without a second thought.

I admit some of that goes on in radio, like other businesses. But I am here to tell you the God's honest truth. I never lie...and I will answer any question to the best of my ability, and you can verify everything I say to you. I took the time to come onto this board so that a few people that I don't even know can understand how we do business. That should tell you something.


Quote

Does anybody really think that ABC is going to allow me to cram a bad show down the throats of 7 of the biggest and best News/Talk PD's in America
Sure. It happens. "Bad" is subjective. One right-wing rant fest is pretty much like another and ABC Radio can make more money running (and selling) its own show on its own stations (and in selling it to other stations) than taking a show from another syndicator - whether or not the ratings of the two shows are comparable. Besides, this is evening we're talking about here - radio dead time.

You are skirting my question. If the Mark Levin show was truly a bad show...unlistenable as one loser claimed...it would fail on these stations, and I would look like a moron for suggesting the ABC stations take it. Since I can show you ratings success (which they won't let me post here) that is a moot question. The show has scored on all the ABC stations...so it is NOT a bad show. It works.

Radio people will not only yank programming that performs well for money (or the possibility of money) but to give a job to their girl friend or the boss' nephew's friend. Radio people make changes just to justify their existence (and salary); new PDs typically fire at least some of the people the last guy hired. And radio people are rabidly competitive - more focused on other broadcasters than on listeners. Are you pushing Levin to stick it to Savage?

Fred....or whoever you are....get real. By syndicating Mark Levin ABC is now creating another hit show. It is one thing to have Hannity on 515 stations....maybe I was LUCKY. But if we do it again, and create a show worth millions for the company...I am doing my job. Who cares about Savage. If it wasn't him...we'd be beating up on somebody else. It is competitive...but so are most businesses. We just want to win over here...and work hard to do that. I would not win by placing the bosses nephews friend on the air...let's not get silly here.

I did detect some combative fervor in your post. And things like that do happen. Heck, it appears WDEL hired a guy away from Clear Channel to stick it to CC for yanking Rush.

If there is anything combative in my posts it is because I have discovered a few people here taking pot shots at me and my company, and my hosts, and my affiliate team. I don't want incorrect notions to become accepted fact. I know the facts and I will defend my hosts and my team vigorously. Just my personality.

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I get nothing from my efforts running the Levin show, other than a really warm glow when I see how well he has done.
Really. No kidding? Well, except you get paid and you also posted that you have an equity stake in the show. This is what I mean when I say people in radio are compulsive liars. It's like eating peanuts with them; they start and they can't stop.

I did not post I have an equity stake in the show. I don't and never said that. I said ABC should pay me a boat load of dough for helping creative another hit show for the company...but there is nothing unethical about that. It is was happens when you are successful in business. Who lied? All I do is tell the truth. It sounds to me like you have been badly abused in this business. I am sorry for that, but I did not do it.

And you brag that you will give somebody who "walk(s) in the door" their "first job." God forbid a talk show host should learn his trade in small markets, like Rush did. Rush stands out because he knows how to do a radio show. Right-wing talk is his format. Radio is what he does. That's why he's entertaining and the rest just rant. But local hosts in small markets cuts into the syndication business (unless ABC and Clear Channel yank a small station's syndicated shows and their only option is to go local - like in Wilmington and Madison).

Unfortunately, small market radio has stopped grooming new talent. I have no problem with using somebody who has small market experience if they have talent...but I also give people a chance who have never worked in radio because there is no Farm System anymore. I have to develop my OWN talent. Unlike some PD's I have a track record of doing it. You should be thanking me for giving people a chance who have never worked in radio, but wake up everyday with a talk show inside that is screaming to get out.

All I ask is don't muck up KGO, the only class act left to ABC.

I promise...I will not muck up KGO.

And thank you for replying here, rather than following what appears to be normal ABC practice to turn the lawyers loose to shut down any blog or site on which criticism of the company or its programming appears.

Frankly, I don't care for lawyers either...although for some reason I keep hiring them as talk show hosts.

pb

 

[Johnny Morgan]

Re: RE:WDEL says no to ABC Radio demand and drops Hannity for local talk/news

(thanks for the correction Johnny)

Mr. Boyce,

No problem. I only mention it because there a some slight differences in terms of elements that have to be proven between libel and slander.

Now, let's talk an on-air gig...I have oldies format experience, management and FCC regulatory compliance experience, and I am a lawyer (criminal and broadcast regulation). Anything we can do there?

 

[fred flintstone]

There is a link in original (closed) thread to the relocated thread.

I don't see the need to defend yourself and clear your name when what we are talking about is a common industry practice. I have a problem with it but apparently many in the industry do not. It does, however, seems to be one of those things people do but nobody wants to admit to. I seem to recall the same kinds of response coming up in connection with ABC Radio's The Satellite Sisters and pay-to-play, and AAR reportedly paying for clearances in LA and San Francisco. None of this is illegal (or unusual). Where's the slander. This reminds me of high school where nobody ever - ever - admits to (ahem) not being master of his domain.

ABC Radio was once a great organization, but that was Paramount Theaters and Capital Cities. Disney has always been right wing, right back to Uncle Walt. And that corporate culture is revealed in ABC Radio talk programming. Paul Harvey but no liberal commentators (not since Edward P. Morgan stopped doing his radio broadcast in 1967). No progressive talk stations in the portfolio (unlike Clear Channel, CBS, Entercom, Saga...). No progressive hosts in syndication (not since Michael Jackson was carried on ABC's talk network in the early 80s). Just the administration amen chorus including Hannity, Levin, Drudge. There are few independent true-conservative hosts out there representing traditional conservative principles (like laissez faire economics and limited government) but not from ABC Radio, which consistently sells the administration-GOP neo-con line. Maybe somewhere there is a smile on the face of Walt's frozen head.

ABC Radio is not unique. Radio is an industry in which business ethics and integrity are alien concepts. It is one in which employees are consistently ill-treated - often by those, having survived any ill-treatment themselves, now feel entitled to inflict it on others. And an industry in which any dissent, complaint or criticism is immediately dismissed, invalidated or suppressed. (Any wonder people use handles online?) It's also an industry filled with people who can't take the kind of treatment they routinely dish out to others on the air.

I'm still waiting to hear the ABC Radio spin on why WDEL would freely drop Hannity. You say "no evidence" - "only a few call letters." How many call letters do you need? I'm sure we won't hear from any stations that knuckled under to any sales pressure. And we won't hear from stations where pressure was not need (I imagine some stations were sold the old-fashioned way - with persuasion). And as I said before, maybe this is not really about pressure. Maybe it's about Clear Channel wanted the Hannity Show in Wilmington and ABC yanked it for them (just like Jones did with Ed Schultz in Madison).

No reason not to use your own name when you come on here to hawk the NAB line, promote yourself and your product or defends yourself and your employers. If everybody did that this board would become a nice industry house organ ("and a good time was had by all").