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Radio_Realist
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WDEL says no to ABC Radio demand and drops Hannity for local talk/news
- Thread starter raccoonradio
- Start date
Ladies! Ladies! Puh-LEEZ!
A little civility, please.
This cat fight will get y'all sent to Take It Outside...OR WORSE...THE PROVIDENCE BOARD!!!
A little civility, please.
This cat fight will get y'all sent to Take It Outside...OR WORSE...THE PROVIDENCE BOARD!!!
I'd vote for the civility. I've been to Providence.
The Ocean State is GREAT
What the Providence DISCUSSION BOARD may lack in couth, THE CITY more-than-compensates.
YOU SHOULD LINGER LONGER THERE.
For those of y'all lurking-in from other cities who HAVEN'T seen Providence, don't let that crack dissuade you.
COME! VISIT!
Try the monkfish at Hememway's.
Ogle the curvy bartenders at "10," Peck & Pine.
Bring a tape measure. Federal Hill is BIGGER (and nicer) that Little Italy in Noo Yawk.
People in DC think the Captial Grille chain started there. I correct 'em.
Mangia.
See the architecture on College Hill.
Wow.
See it in the background in Disney's "Underdog," now in theaters.
Sure, Chicago's bigger.
But, in the summer, OUR beach has salt water.
And, in the winter, bronchitis is optional here.
Drive 35 minutes, and you're in Newport. Seen THAT???
And just 12 miles off-shore? "Bermuda-of-the-North" (http://blockisland.tv)
Find THAT 12 miles out-in-the-middle-of Lake Michigan.
In the 70s, the annual report for the-company-then-known-as-Industrial National Bank (later Fleet Financial, now -- like Clear Channel buying-out mom-and-pop stations -- Bank of America) noted that more people live within 75 miles of Providence than anywhere else in America. If you've seen the boom in Vegas and elsewhere sunny, you'll figure that radius is probably wider now.
But this handsome renaissance city is the envy of every other rustbelt town in America.
Hartford would KILL to be Providence.
And if you don't believe me, stroll Waterfire (http://waterfire.org).
If Providence had an official bird, it'd be the Construction Crane (mondo condo expensivus).
THEY MOVED A RIVER when downtown was remodeled in the 80s/90s.
And what a turn-around.
The-first-of-three-times I moved to Rhode Island was 1974.
Double-digit unemployment, gas lines, NOT pretty.
Take a look now.
In 1974, this would've seemed like a cruel joke.
But people-from-Boston now come-to-Providence-for-the-weekend.
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
What the Providence DISCUSSION BOARD may lack in couth, THE CITY more-than-compensates.
YOU SHOULD LINGER LONGER THERE.
For those of y'all lurking-in from other cities who HAVEN'T seen Providence, don't let that crack dissuade you.
COME! VISIT!
Try the monkfish at Hememway's.
Ogle the curvy bartenders at "10," Peck & Pine.
Bring a tape measure. Federal Hill is BIGGER (and nicer) that Little Italy in Noo Yawk.
People in DC think the Captial Grille chain started there. I correct 'em.
Mangia.
See the architecture on College Hill.
Wow.
See it in the background in Disney's "Underdog," now in theaters.
Sure, Chicago's bigger.
But, in the summer, OUR beach has salt water.
And, in the winter, bronchitis is optional here.
Drive 35 minutes, and you're in Newport. Seen THAT???
And just 12 miles off-shore? "Bermuda-of-the-North" (http://blockisland.tv)
Find THAT 12 miles out-in-the-middle-of Lake Michigan.
In the 70s, the annual report for the-company-then-known-as-Industrial National Bank (later Fleet Financial, now -- like Clear Channel buying-out mom-and-pop stations -- Bank of America) noted that more people live within 75 miles of Providence than anywhere else in America. If you've seen the boom in Vegas and elsewhere sunny, you'll figure that radius is probably wider now.
But this handsome renaissance city is the envy of every other rustbelt town in America.
Hartford would KILL to be Providence.
And if you don't believe me, stroll Waterfire (http://waterfire.org).
If Providence had an official bird, it'd be the Construction Crane (mondo condo expensivus).
THEY MOVED A RIVER when downtown was remodeled in the 80s/90s.
And what a turn-around.
The-first-of-three-times I moved to Rhode Island was 1974.
Double-digit unemployment, gas lines, NOT pretty.
Take a look now.
In 1974, this would've seemed like a cruel joke.
But people-from-Boston now come-to-Providence-for-the-weekend.
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
Holland is right...Providence is a nice town. I'm just not partial to places where they stick malls in the middle of a downtown. It is one reason why Boston and New Yawk keep dragging me back. Same thing for Philly.
The Italian food in Providence is excellent. As good as anywhere...and by some accounts maybe better. I have my Boston favorites....but again that is me.
It could be salt water or fresh water I could care less...beaches full of sun worshippers and the smell of coppertone do nothing for me.
My apologies to the moderators...the travel commentary is over.
The Italian food in Providence is excellent. As good as anywhere...and by some accounts maybe better. I have my Boston favorites....but again that is me.
It could be salt water or fresh water I could care less...beaches full of sun worshippers and the smell of coppertone do nothing for me.
My apologies to the moderators...the travel commentary is over.
ONE more Rhode Island travel note...SEVERAL notes actually...
...the soundtrack of your self-guided Block Island tour, www.ListenToBlockIsland.com
(Portions recorded AT WDEL!)
Go ahead, sing along: http://getawaytoblockisland.com/JfullSing.mp3
HC
www.BlockIsland.TV
...the soundtrack of your self-guided Block Island tour, www.ListenToBlockIsland.com
(Portions recorded AT WDEL!)
Go ahead, sing along: http://getawaytoblockisland.com/JfullSing.mp3
HC
www.BlockIsland.TV
D
Don62
Guest
Radio_Realist said:Don62 said:[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]Radio_Realist said:What's the big deal about "local"? How many interesting topics are there in any city to fill two or three hours of news/talk?
Right. Local hosts have nothing to talk about.
You sir, have posted a lie. In your quote of my words, I asked how many interesting topics are there in a city to fill two or three hours of news/talk. You are the one who twisted my assertion that there is a lack of interesting local topics to fill several hours of programming per day into the lie that I said that local hosts have nothing to talk about. Twisting my words in that manner is dishonest. It is decietful. It is a lie. And the fact that your own words that I quoted are a lie is proof that you are a liar.
I wonder if the moderators here will take into consideration that my calling you a liar is based on posted proof that you lied, and that my statement is not a personal attack, it is merely an accurate observation.
What contempt you have for people working in the media.
No, it is not people working in the media that I have contempt for. I reserve contempt for those who twist the words of other people.
RR,
I did not mishcaracterize your statement.
You asked, rather cynically in my opinion, what topics local hosts can talk about.
That hardly makes me a liar.
"How many interesting topics are there in any city to fill two or three hours of news/talk?" sounds like local hosts have nothing to talk about.
Did Hannity, Limbo, Larry Elder, Glenn Beck, G. Gordon Liddy, Ken Hamblin, et. al., have nothing to talk about on their shows before they went national?
PB said
And at least four formats have increased their shares -- sports, religion, urban, and Spanish,
Okay you are not impressed with a 56% gain in the sports share. How about Spanish language programming which has grown from 6.7 to 11.2 (67%) that's less than 3 share points behind flat talk radio.
And I don't believe that you are really Phil Boyce.
I wasn't referring to a particular sitcom or for that matter talk show. I was referring to the category. In the 90's sitcoms were real big on television. Now they aren't doing that well. It is safe to say that the sitcom category is down.
Isn't debate what these boards are about. Or do you think it's just a place for guys like you to blow your own horn. Also, if you excluded people who don't get paid from commenting on this board, it would be a pretty lonely place.
Yes, it is a mature format. I think that can said of all most radio formats. That doesn't mean that it cannot continue to grow. Especially since, several of the music formats are tanking. This creates opportunity for other formats to grow.
No, I won't go away. I actually enjoy your personal attacks.
It is simply remarkable what NewsTalk has done. Not only do I think it is OK, I think it is terrific. The Newstalk format has been able to maintain and hold that leading 14% share of all radio listening for 8 years while many other formats have declined.
And at least four formats have increased their shares -- sports, religion, urban, and Spanish,
Sports is only around 2 or 3% of total listening. You seem to think that having 2-3% of total listening is great...and better than having the leading format in America...Newstalks 14%.
Okay you are not impressed with a 56% gain in the sports share. How about Spanish language programming which has grown from 6.7 to 11.2 (67%) that's less than 3 share points behind flat talk radio.
I don't believe you ever did work in the broadcasting business...but if you did, I completely understand why you stated that in the past tense.
And I don't believe that you are really Phil Boyce.
News/Talk is a format on radio, and can't be compared to a sitcom. But since you used sitcoms for a comparison, let me state the obvious. There are LOTS of examples of sitcoms that had successful long 10-12 year runs...and did NOT continue to grow. But they did have high ratings for years. If a sitcom is #1...(as the Newstalk format is) it would not have to continue to grow to stay on the air. As long as it maintained that #1 status, the network execs would be happy.
I wasn't referring to a particular sitcom or for that matter talk show. I was referring to the category. In the 90's sitcoms were real big on television. Now they aren't doing that well. It is safe to say that the sitcom category is down.
If you really hate the NewsTalk format as it seems, and you really think it is all over for this format, as you claim....why are you still here on the newstalk format on this message board debating these issues? Go ahead...leave. You think it is all over anyway, so get out and stop annoying those of us who still do this and GET PAID to do this.
Isn't debate what these boards are about. Or do you think it's just a place for guys like you to blow your own horn. Also, if you excluded people who don't get paid from commenting on this board, it would be a pretty lonely place.
if NewsTalk has a 14 share...and that is the highest of any format...and it is a mature format that has been around for 20 years or more...chances are it is not going to keep growing. Individual shows can grow...but the format is at the top of it's game ...growth wise.
Yes, it is a mature format. I think that can said of all most radio formats. That doesn't mean that it cannot continue to grow. Especially since, several of the music formats are tanking. This creates opportunity for other formats to grow.
Please...spare me this agony....and allow me some peace by letting this silly argument fade into distant memory. It is painful to me to see you humiliate yourself this way.
No, I won't go away. I actually enjoy your personal attacks.
In this discussion a question that should be asked that might help to clarify things. Is radio's overall audience growing, or has it flatlined, or is it in decline?
If radio listenership overall is growing then it might be possible for a mature format like News/Talk to grow, but my guess is radio's overall audience is in decline for all formats including News/Talk. This is one of those paradoxes. The ad agencies and sponsors want that covetted demo of 12-49. The youngest end of that demo 12-35, for the most part, do not listen to the radio, but they prefer to listen to their music and get their news, etc via I-Pods, the internet, etc. So radio is left with a smaller and smaller piece of the target audience it's advertisers crave, say the 36-49 range listener. The additional paradox to this is that the largest population block of Americans (who happen to be radio listeners) is totally ignored now, because they are past that magical 49 year age, (the Baby Boomers). So you have a large group of ignored listeners who more and more are tuning out, because there's little music for them as broadcasters are no longer targeting that group and the younger group who don't listen at all. Obviously, a part of that older Baby Boom demo has gotten in to Talk Radio as generally I believe talk radio skews to an older audience 45+. In spite of the "older" demo national Talk Radio is doing quite well as witnessed by the successes of Rush, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Kommando, Dr. Laura, Bohannan, and yes NPR news/informational programming has a large block of Baby Boomers as listeners and supporters.
This suggests to me that a smart national ad agency might consider the idea of how to build on the more "mature" radio listener and sell those folks. Why does the drug industry buy millions of dollars of Cable Television ads to promote their drugs, yet seem to stay away from national radio? Why shouldn't radio be tapping into that large pool of advertising money. My point is, granted some sponsors won't want to sell to the mature listener, but there are plenty of products out there that the Baby Boomer listener buys and it's not just prescription drugs for wrinkle removal, etc. Boomers still buy clothes, cars, boats, take trips, cruises, invest money, buy books, buy CD's, buy DVD's, furniture, appliances, etc, etc. That to me is radio's challenge is to find a way to market that large ignored audience it still has for the short term. Then for the longer term they also should be trying to find ways to attract the younger audience back to radio from the internet and I-Pods so that their future long term business continues.
If radio listenership overall is growing then it might be possible for a mature format like News/Talk to grow, but my guess is radio's overall audience is in decline for all formats including News/Talk. This is one of those paradoxes. The ad agencies and sponsors want that covetted demo of 12-49. The youngest end of that demo 12-35, for the most part, do not listen to the radio, but they prefer to listen to their music and get their news, etc via I-Pods, the internet, etc. So radio is left with a smaller and smaller piece of the target audience it's advertisers crave, say the 36-49 range listener. The additional paradox to this is that the largest population block of Americans (who happen to be radio listeners) is totally ignored now, because they are past that magical 49 year age, (the Baby Boomers). So you have a large group of ignored listeners who more and more are tuning out, because there's little music for them as broadcasters are no longer targeting that group and the younger group who don't listen at all. Obviously, a part of that older Baby Boom demo has gotten in to Talk Radio as generally I believe talk radio skews to an older audience 45+. In spite of the "older" demo national Talk Radio is doing quite well as witnessed by the successes of Rush, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Kommando, Dr. Laura, Bohannan, and yes NPR news/informational programming has a large block of Baby Boomers as listeners and supporters.
This suggests to me that a smart national ad agency might consider the idea of how to build on the more "mature" radio listener and sell those folks. Why does the drug industry buy millions of dollars of Cable Television ads to promote their drugs, yet seem to stay away from national radio? Why shouldn't radio be tapping into that large pool of advertising money. My point is, granted some sponsors won't want to sell to the mature listener, but there are plenty of products out there that the Baby Boomer listener buys and it's not just prescription drugs for wrinkle removal, etc. Boomers still buy clothes, cars, boats, take trips, cruises, invest money, buy books, buy CD's, buy DVD's, furniture, appliances, etc, etc. That to me is radio's challenge is to find a way to market that large ignored audience it still has for the short term. Then for the longer term they also should be trying to find ways to attract the younger audience back to radio from the internet and I-Pods so that their future long term business continues.
D
Don62
Guest
Great points. Anyone who has spent some time on these boards may notice I frequently argue that radio should be playing more real oldies, the 50s and 60s, - the original (and arguably greatest) Top 40 rock and roll era - as opposed to a narrow list of late 60s and 70s.MikefromDelaware said:[size=10pt][size=10pt]In this discussion a question that should be asked that might help to clarify things. Is radio's overall audience growing, or has it flatlined, or is it in decline?
If radio listenership overall is growing then it might be possible for a mature format like News/Talk to grow, but my guess is radio's overall audience is in decline for all formats including News/Talk. This is one of those paradoxes. The ad agencies and sponsors want that covetted demo of 12-49. The youngest end of that demo 12-35, for the most part, do not listen to the radio, but they prefer to listen to their music and get their news, etc via I-Pods, the internet, etc. So radio is left with a smaller and smaller piece of the target audience it's advertisers crave, say the 36-49 range listener. The additional paradox to this is that the largest population block of Americans (who happen to be radio listeners) is totally ignored now, because they are past that magical 49 year age, (the Baby Boomers). So you have a large group of ignored listeners who more and more are tuning out, because there's little music for them as broadcasters are no longer targeting that group and the younger group who don't listen at all. Obviously, a part of that older Baby Boom demo has gotten in to Talk Radio as generally I believe talk radio skews to an older audience 45+. In spite of the "older" demo national Talk Radio is doing quite well as witnessed by the successes of Rush, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Kommando, Dr. Laura, Bohannan, and yes NPR news/informational programming has a large block of Baby Boomers as listeners and supporters.
This suggests to me that a smart national ad agency might consider the idea of how to build on the more "mature" radio listener and sell those folks. Why does the drug industry buy millions of dollars of Cable Television ads to promote their drugs, yet seem to stay away from national radio? Why shouldn't radio be tapping into that large pool of advertising money. My point is, granted some sponsors won't want to sell to the mature listener, but there are plenty of products out there that the Baby Boomer listener buys and it's not just prescription drugs for wrinkle removal, etc. Boomers still buy clothes, cars, boats, take trips, cruises, invest money, buy books, buy CD's, buy DVD's, furniture, appliances, etc, etc. That to me is radio's challenge is to find a way to market that large ignored audience it still has for the short term. Then for the longer term they also should be trying to find ways to attract the younger audience back to radio from the internet and I-Pods so that their future long term business continues.[/size][/size]
I grew up in the 70s. In fact, I'm 45 and should love the songs so-called oldies radio is playing these days. But I don't. Even I recognize the special sounds of an eariler era which of course does not only appeal only to the Baby Boomers.
I'd also throw in a recommendation to have more Music of Your Life stations, if only they are on AM stations, as that's another audience segment that's being ignored.
Of course, the expert here, DE, will come in and tell us young people are listening to radio just fine and that the older demos aren't important to rado or advertisers, so this is all nonsense.
Horse-feathers. Radio should be more like a department store, offering items to all, with a focus on the big sellers that may appeal to a certain buying segment, but don't forget to include a lineup that appeals to other purchasing segments.
Maybe it is the masochist in me. This topic was the first one I ever posted on here on this board. In fact it was because of this thread that I registered here.
When this thread originally began over a year ago, WDEL was coming off a 4.0 and WILM was coming off a 2.3. Then the big switch happened where Hannity and Levin jumped ship from WDEL to WILM. After the first book came in (Spring 2007), WILM had jumped into the lead in 12+, beating WDEL 2.7 to 2.6. I posted those results last July. Now, I am posting the results of the Fall 2007 book which came out about a week ago:
Fall 2007:
I hope nobody thinks I am gloating here, I am not. It could all reverse tomorrow. I have never wanted WDEL to suffer because of losing Hannity. I did want the new lineup of Rush to Sean to Levin to do well. I think they have Savage sandwiched in there also. There was a great discussion here about who did the right thing. It was pointed out that Hannity and Levin jumped from a 5000 watt market leader to a 1000 watt second tier station. Wonder how WILM managed to pull into the lead almost immediately and built on that lead in the next book?
I will leave the answer to others to ponder. Just wanted to give the update on the ratings to put this thread into perspective. On the first page of this topic, Radio Realist had a short comment that nailed it to the wall. I commend him for not only getting it right, but being a psychic.
pb
When this thread originally began over a year ago, WDEL was coming off a 4.0 and WILM was coming off a 2.3. Then the big switch happened where Hannity and Levin jumped ship from WDEL to WILM. After the first book came in (Spring 2007), WILM had jumped into the lead in 12+, beating WDEL 2.7 to 2.6. I posted those results last July. Now, I am posting the results of the Fall 2007 book which came out about a week ago:
Fall 2007:
WILM 2.8
WDEL 2.2
I hope nobody thinks I am gloating here, I am not. It could all reverse tomorrow. I have never wanted WDEL to suffer because of losing Hannity. I did want the new lineup of Rush to Sean to Levin to do well. I think they have Savage sandwiched in there also. There was a great discussion here about who did the right thing. It was pointed out that Hannity and Levin jumped from a 5000 watt market leader to a 1000 watt second tier station. Wonder how WILM managed to pull into the lead almost immediately and built on that lead in the next book?
I will leave the answer to others to ponder. Just wanted to give the update on the ratings to put this thread into perspective. On the first page of this topic, Radio Realist had a short comment that nailed it to the wall. I commend him for not only getting it right, but being a psychic.
pb
RE "I will leave the answer to others to ponder."
Hey, I just bought another-several-thousand shares of CDL.
@ a-buck-fifty-something, why not?
Hey, I just bought another-several-thousand shares of CDL.
@ a-buck-fifty-something, why not?
The overall 12+ figures don't really tell us much. Anyone got the breakdowns...
D
del_griffith
Guest
Phil:
Where did the other 1.3 shares go between these two stations? I mean ILM has only gone up a half share. They didn't capture all of those who bolted DEL.
Where did the other 1.3 shares go between these two stations? I mean ILM has only gone up a half share. They didn't capture all of those who bolted DEL.
My guess would be to either 1210 WPHT (Philly) has Gleen Beck,Rush,Hannity, and 90.9 WHYY-FM (NPR news/info/talk programming) as both of these news/talk stations have solid signals in Wilmington. Unfortunately the WHYY-FM 12+ numbers don't show. WNTP 990 Philly (Salem Talk) doesn't have a strong signal in Wilmington so I doubt they gained by WDEL's lower numbers.
Re: RE "I will leave the answer to others to ponder."
Why not? Because it could fall under $1.
Holland Cooke said:Hey, I just bought another-several-thousand shares of CDL.
@ a-buck-fifty-something, why not?
Why not? Because it could fall under $1.
RE "it could fall under $1."
Tip from someone who bought Sirius at 44 cents: If CDL hits $1, LOAD UP!
If you got in earlier, you'll be improving your basis.
Tip from someone who bought Sirius at 44 cents: If CDL hits $1, LOAD UP!
If you got in earlier, you'll be improving your basis.
Re: RE "I will leave the answer to others to ponder."
Hope that worked out for you.
0.990
0.000 (0.00%)
Aug 15 - Close
At a buck fifty something, that's why.
Holland Cooke said:Hey, I just bought another-several-thousand shares of CDL.
@ a-buck-fifty-something, why not?
Hope that worked out for you.
0.990
0.000 (0.00%)
Aug 15 - Close
At a buck fifty something, that's why.
For-the-record: "No comment..."
...as you'll read in-the-middle-of page TWENTY ONE of the Providence thread titled "Big Troubles Coming Down The Track at WPRO."
...as you'll read in-the-middle-of page TWENTY ONE of the Providence thread titled "Big Troubles Coming Down The Track at WPRO."
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.