WDHA / WRAT / WMMR

[SoulCrusher]

Three different stations. Three different markets. All three essentially playing the exact same safe music. It's basically no different from Millennium Radio Group with all of The Hawks flying around. Radio is getting so safe lately - I say this as I hear WRAT playing Hinder's cheese ballad "Lips Of An Angel" for the millionth time, after a couple of other very mellow songs ... needless to say, I was checking my dial to make sure I had the correct station.

I took a sample of the playlists and hourly selections from WRAT, WMMR & WDHA, and the difference between the three was nearly impossible to detect. Given that WRAT has mostly maintained the same staff since it signed on, I place the blame for this on the purveyors of bland generica known as Greater Media. Seems to me as if the PDs and MDs of each station can't assert even the slightest unique influence into the format, because Greater Media won't allow them to.

I remember when WRAT used to be such an exciting station- what the heck happened? Oh yeah - Greater Media happened, that's right. If they were as daring today as they were when they signed on, they would definitely have Atreyu, Underoath, Bullet For My Valentine, etc. in their rotation along with other surprises, but now they're arguably the safest of the three stations when it comes to adding new music. I checked the playlist: They're not even playing Crossfade, Black Stone Cherry, Eighteen Visions, and other popular Active Rock acts right now! It's utterly absurd, I tell you. What are they playing, you ask? Mostly titles that are also on G Rock Radio's playlist, along with a couple of trad rock acts whose best days are behind them (nice "La Grange" ripoff there, Mr. Petty). And I would be willing to bet that the only reason they play Korn (a softer remix, I might add) and Flyleaf is because they're part of an upcoming station-sponsored concert. I don't understand why these stations can't play more currents like other Active Rockers such as WJSE in Petersburg/Atlantic City and WZBH in Georgetown, DE. Why couldn't they just work these new songs in while retaining the same general sound? It would make for a much better listening experience for all of us.

WRAT still has a great morning show, and the personalities are all top-notch. But at the end of the day, they're a music station. If only they could work out that part of the formula.

And then there's WMMR and WDHA, neither of which sound drastically different when you get down to it. WDHA is probably the worst of the lot, because as mentioned before the personalities leave much to be desired. They're playing maybe two or thress songs that WRAT has not added, but that doesn't compensate for a weaker airstaff.

My opinion is that 15 Currents just won't cut it in any of these markets. Maybe that's why WDHA and WRAT's numbers have had their share of ups and downs (and more of the latter) over recent years. Maybe if they opened themselves up a bit more and became more listener-friendly, that would give them a boost in the ratings. That's some food for thought for whoever's calling the shots at Greater Media.

The big guy prevailing over the little guy. Maybe we wouldn't have this level of monotony if the Telecommunications Act of 1996 wasn't signed into law. Come 2008, we need to elect someone who empathizes with the little guys. Maybe this person will bring about positive changes on a national level. There's little doubt in my mind that it would bring about positive changes in radio as well. The radio industry needs to encourage competition in order to thrive amidst downloading, iPods and the homogeny brought on by generic corporate radio operated by CBS/Infinity, Clear Channel and Greater Media. I know that Dubya isn't going to, but someone really needs to repeal this counterproductive Telecommunications Act. It has done more harm than good over the years, and that's likely to continue.

 

[Chuck Wagon]

You know something "SoulCrusher"...

Sometimes I think you just talk to hear yourself talk.

You obviously don't work in radio...and you have a problem with EVERY company that owns a radio station. Millennium, Press, Greater Media, Clear Channel...etc.

Question #1...are the station's making money? obviously so if they're still on the air
Question #2...what makes you think that the way that YOU think is the way of the industry. If you haven't worked in the business before, how in the WORLD can you comment how a station's staff programs it?

It's a never ending complaint from you. You will always throw in that one positive note like "the airstaff is great...BUT" just to try and make it seem that you're unbiased. When in fact all you're doing is complaining.

Do us all a favor. Either go buy satellite and find something to complain about with them, or stop whining every other day about every other station and how YOU would program it. If you were that good at it, I'm sure you'd find a job in the business to work at and share your "programming expertise."

 

[Beejus]

You know something "SoulCrusher"...

Sometimes I think you just talk to hear yourself talk.

You obviously don't work in radio...and you have a problem with EVERY company that owns a radio station. Millennium, Press, Greater Media, Clear Channel...etc.

Question #1...are the station's making money? obviously so if they're still on the air
Question #2...what makes you think that the way that YOU think is the way of the industry. If you haven't worked in the business before, how in the WORLD can you comment how a station's staff programs it?

It's a never ending complaint from you. You will always throw in that one positive note like "the airstaff is great...BUT" just to try and make it seem that you're unbiased. When in fact all you're doing is complaining.

Do us all a favor. Either go buy satellite and find something to complain about with them, or stop whining every other day about every other station and how YOU would program it. If you were that good at it, I'm sure you'd find a job in the business to work at and share your "programming expertise."

thank you chuck. you beat me to it.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Alright, Chuck - I went off on a rant there. What started out as a post that was going to inquire about the similarities and differences between Greater Media's 3 rock stations in Philly and New Jersey morphed into something else completely.

I just wonder sometimes why some markets have several unique stations, regardless of whatever the format may be, and some have the most generic and bland you'll ever find. If you go to certain places in Monmouth/Ocean, you wouldn't think of this place as White Bread Central, but the radio proves otherwise.

You look at the AC / Cape May market, and there is so much to choose from - not a single major format hole that stands out. You get the Philly stations, but better yet, the in-market stations and the ones that come in from Delaware. The Rock formats in that market consist of much more than the same 200 songs that have been played to death thousands of times.

So why, I ask, is such a safe approach being used at the Rock stations in this area? Are they concerned that we're going to get up and walk away if they play a song that only went Top 10 or Top 20 on the charts, rather than Top 5? Do they think that there are certain songs that withstand thousands of spins without becoming tired? I mean, most iPods have more music on them than the entire on-air libraries of some of these stations! I swear it's true - I listen at work to a couple of them and they play the same songs day in and day out!

There's nothing wrong with trying to appeal to advertisers, but when you customize the format toward what they want to hear instead of the listeners, that's taking it a little too far. If you play wall-to-wall hits ad nauseum, your audience will erode to nothing - look at what happened to 92.3 K-Rock in NYC. The only game in town, and they failed because their timid programming drove listeners to other options. It may be a small market, but WZBH (93.5 The Beach) is thriving in Delaware because it's a Rock station that is programmed like a Rock station, not a CHR or a Hot AC. It's either at the top of the books or close to it every time because it's a damn good station.

No, I don't have satellite radio yet, but that's because I don't know if it's going to succeed or not. I could wind up buying one, and the company could shut down the next day, just because they're not turning profits after all these years of operation. Believe me, I would have one by now if things were different, but given that the cons still outweigh the pros, I can't justify purchasing one at this time.

 

[Chuck Wagon]

If you play wall-to-wall hits ad nauseum, your audience will erode to nothing - look at what happened to 92.3 K-Rock in NYC.

You seem to miss the point. K-Rock was leaning "heavy" and playing songs that weren't "alternative"...they would play hard stuff that targets a niche audience. Yes, alternative itself is a "niche"...but when you're not even programming to the niche it's going to fail. They skewed VERY young in their last months, with heavier tracks that adults 35-44 will tune out because of it's constant yelling/heavy guitars.

And now you see where K-Rock is...off the air. Granted, Stern had a massive part to do with the format flip. But after Stern the station wasn't playing all the real alternative that would most likely succeed. G Rock seems to be doing just fine and when I listen to it, it's got flashes of the old FM 106.3. But FM 106.3 was a long time ago, and times have changed...along with the landscape of radio. Radio station's like that were obviously great, but enjoy what is out there now of what they're doing...and enjoy what the RAT is doing, and DHA...because it IS what it IS.

Do you think people really care about an edit of a song like I constantly see you posting on here? Chances are if they hadn't heard the song before..they dont even know WHAT the original sounds like. True "music" fans either have bought the CD and aren't listening to it on FM radio or they're popping their IPOD on. There is no need to offend anyone or make them turn the station off for a few "yells and screams." It's 20 seconds of your life in the edited part, and you'll spend 5-10 minutes typing about those 20 seconds. Is the ratio of time you're spending complaining about it to the time you hear it really worth it?

Let it go...give all the opinions you want. It's an open forum. Talk about the GOOD things in radio...there are plenty of them, but you choose to harp on the negative. If you don't work for the station, you're just a listener. As a listener, enjoy it...the common folk who know NOTHING about this radio board who listen to it while they take their kids to their little league football game seem to enjoy it.

 

[SoulCrusher]

K-Rock did play too much nu-metal during their final days. They never moved out of that phase despite the fact that it wore out its welcome around 2002 or so, and that is what led to its demise.

However, they never were all that heavy from what I could hear. Perhaps the heaviest band they ever played was Slipknot, and even then they replaced most of the screaming with singing (see "Wait And Bleed). Heck, they released four singles from their last album, and K-Rock only played one, "Duality". I also remember them turning the screaming way down in the mix when they played Drowning Pool's "Bodies". And they never played any Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall, Lamb Of God, Atreyu, etc., despite the popularity of these bands.

Probably the biggest issue with the station was that they were stuck in the past. They were pounding the same old hits from the early '90s, and they never knew when to let go of Limp Bizkit And they played fewer currents than G Rock Radio (but more than WRAT, for what it's worth).

G Rock Radio, which definitely has positive points, is a little too soft. They play all of these bubblegum pop/rock acts like Yellowcard, Fall Out Boy, All American Rejects, Blink 182, Panic! At The Disco, etc. They also play all of these soft ballads without anything edgier to balance it out. Basically, they're targeting young Females more than they should be, IMO. They're still a very good station if you can get through all the fluff - I heard them play The Smiths today, and better yet, it was a song other than "How Soon Is Now?".

WRAT is good if you want familiar Rock hits, like Greater Media's other Rock stations. However, the meager amount of currents and all of the overlap with G Rock Radio has been taking its effect in the ratings. Even if the songs were only relegated to night rotation, there is an audience for the heavier stuff on the Active Rock Charts, and I wish these guys would embrace it - for self-preservation purposes, it would be a good move, if only to differentiate themselves more from the competition (both G Rock and all the Classic Rockers that play the same titles).

I'm not just looking at it from a matter of personal opinion, Chuck. I think these stations have established themselves and should take a few more chances. Specialty shows are in short supply on both stations (and in G Rock Radio's case, you can't hear them unless you're up early on the weekends), and these ideas would help the stations attract more listeners if they're willing to step out of the comfort zone. Besides, we can only hear "Dream On", "Smells Like Teen Spirit", "Plush", "When I Come Around", or (Take your pick) so many times before we finally get sick of it. What am I saying - I guess I'm in the minority for feeling that way. I guess I just have to face it - those trips and DXs from South Jersey spoiled me a little bit, and I'm also ranting for that reason. Ratings are good, but ad revenue puts bread & butter on the table, and I guess some stations are more concerned in playing what they think the advertisers want to hear. Listeners be damned, I suppose. Well, I guess we're never going to get the opportunity to see how well a "Beach" or "Ace" type station would do around here, since no one will give it a chance. I think it would top WRAT and give G Rock a run for its money, depending on the signal and presentation.

I'll never give up on radio mostly because of the personalities, but the time is going to come where I have to give satellite radio or the iPod a shot, just because the stations around here are just too slow in adding newer Rock. Thank goodness I have a CD/tape player in my car - the stations around here are so mellow, it would feel like I've taken an Ambien if I had to listen to them.

Alright, enough rambling. I have to be more concise and to the point after this...

 

[radroad]

Question #1...are the station's making money? obviously so if they're still on the air

i forget who but somebody here posted who used to work for greatermedia saying they wernt making money and thats why they lost so many people

 

[sack]

You are almost right. My comment was that Greater Media, at least in New Jersey, can not pay people enough to live in the area. How can you survive, with a family, on 35-40 thousand a year in North Jersey. Ok, if you live in a cardboard box next to the Newark train station. Being smaller stations (WDHA/WRAT), they can't bill enough to pay for high quality experienced people.

But, you have to give them props for hiring people that have talent that can be developed. We ask where the new talent is coming from,, its coming from stations like these, stations that haven't gone voicetracked. Yeah, some of the on air talent is rough, but at least they are making the effort to be live 24/7. Now if they would only take the time and effort to develop that talent,,,,,,

 

[radiolover78]

Actually, Nassau owns the "flying hawks".

 

[SoulCrusher]

Actually, Nassau owns the "flying hawks".

I always get Nassau and Millennium mixed up. I'm pretty sure that Millennium now operates WCHR (105.7 The Hawk), though. I've heard that the transaction gives them the rights to the name for a limited period, and then eventually they will have to re-brand themselves. They'll probably become "The Eagle" or "The Condor", or some other animal with connotations to Classic Rock. I wish they would take that opportunity to go Active and add new titles, because a lot more people would listen if they did that, but that's wishful thinking on my part.

 

[tom]

Right - Millennium OWNS the manaHAWKin Hawk ... the Burlington Hawk will
move to Philadelphia and become something else before long. So I think
the manaHAWKin Hawk will keep its name, in the town it was named after.

 

[SoulCrusher]

The Rat & G Rock: Overlapping

I bring this up not out of personal preference, but because I don't think it's a smart move to program this way. Right now, WRAT is playing a very small amount of Currents, and very few are exclusive to them. That's why I would like to see the old renegade spirit of WRAT, and think they should embrace the heavier sounds on the Active Rock format. How many artists do they own in the market? Metallica, Godsmack & Disturbed, and that's it. That's why this station has had its ratings struggles as of late. Greater Media should quit holding Carl and Robyn back and let them do their thing. Let WRAT be itself, and not the prototypical Greater Media "Rock" station.

Here is a list of currents that are in rotation at both WRAT and G Rock Radio:
- Red Hot Chili Peppers: "Dani California"
- Red Hot Chili Peppers: "Tell Me Baby"
- Three Days Grace: "Animal I Have Become"
- Evanescence: "Call Me When You're Sober"
- Breaking Benjamin: "The Diary Of Jane"
- Shinedown: "I Dare You"
- Audioslave: "Original Fire"
- Stone Sour: "Through Glass"
- Raconteurs: "Steady, As She Goes"
- Jet: "Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is"

The way I see it, over half of the Currents WRAT plays are not exclusive to them. There's a lot of stuff they could be playing without embracing the heavier stuff, like Crossfade, Black Stone Cherry and Shinedown's new one "Heroes". Then of course, they could embrace the heavier acts and they would own each and every one of them in Monmouth/Ocean - think of what that would do for the station to help them stand out and expand their audience.

As mentioned before, they also don't own much of the library they play either - most of it can be heard on G Rock or the myriad Classic Rockers that come in loud and clear. This area could use some work as well - why they are playing very little (or no) Tool, Rage Against The Machine, Marilyn Manson, etc. is a mystery to me. These are all multi-platinum recording artists that no one in the market plays.

Basically, WRAT has their airstaff and station IDs to keep them distinctive. But at the end of the day, they're a music station, and that will only get them so far. Greater Media should let go of the stranglehold on WRAT and allow them to become distinctive like they were in the past.

Of course, some of these suggestions also apply to G Rock Radio, should they fit the format (a lot of heavier acts are still getting play on Alternative, and no one in the market plays them!!!). They own more artists and stand out a bit more, and that excellent signal definitely helps matters for them as well. While both of them could make changes for the greater good, WRAT stands to benefit the most from doing it - if only those control freaks at Greater Media would let them.

 

[southjerseyjon]

Why would a station that has been around as long as WDHA regress and have to "develop" ALL their talent? that's crazy. How does any station big or small expect to make money if your on air product sounds like like DHA has been sounding lately?
That seems totally counterproductive. excuses, excuses......cut costs, keep overhead low........that's what company's want- they could give a crap about developing talent.......Develop them BEFORE you put them on!!!!!!! It's all about making a buck...and if hiring cheap talent will help so be it. it's easy- you get what you pay for.

 

[radroad]

i dont listen to the rat except on the rare shore weekend but i do hear wmmr once in awhile and music wise wdha and wmmr do sound alot alike. talent wise..........well i think its been said enough what wdha sounds like these days. i always wonderd if they would merge wdha and the rat. between the 2 there must be SOME talent wouldnt there?

 

[BigBoy41]

WDHA used to sound good. Big time sound. RAT- who cares.
GROCK is the station of the shore.

 

[SoulCrusher]

WDHA used to sound good. Big time sound. RAT- who cares.
GROCK is the station of the shore.

I've been hard on G Rock in the past, and I admit it. They're a very good station, but not without flaws. Here's what they need to do in order to keep people listening and potentially expand their audience:

1. They still play some of the most overplayed Modern Rock songs of the past 15 years (i.e. Smells Like Teen Spirit, Longview, Plush, Daughter, 311's Down, Radiohead's Creep) about 10-15 times a week by my count. Aren't we all tired of them by now? Scale back on the repetition to make room for more library tracks and/or currents.

2. Cut back on music that alienates Male listeners. I for one can't stand any of these pop/punk boy bands. Enough of All American Rejects, Yellowcard, Fall Out Boy, Panic! At The Disco ... Green Day and Blink 182 also do not appeal to most of us. In addition, Men do not want to hear Coldplay, Death Cab For Cutie, Evanescence, and all of these cheesy ballads by Incubus, Finger Eleven, Fuel, etc. If you're going to play that, at least play some of the more aggressive music on the Modern Rock charts for us guys - for starters, how about Underoath & Bullet For My Valentine?

3. How about more special features on at times when we can hear them? I understand having the acoustic show on Sunday morning, but why is the '80s show on so early? Change the name from The Breakfast Club to ...About Last Night or something and feature it at a time that everyone who wants to hear it is awake. FM 106.3 used to have both a punk rock show (Fridays) and an indie/garage show (late Saturday / early Sunday) - why not bring that back? How about a reggae show or one that focuses on more aggressive rock - no one else is doing that around here? Also, there haven't been enough specialty weekends - I love the Retro Rock Weekends, and they are doing something special for this weekend as well: Labor Day Four-Plays selected by the listeners - check that out. Finally, something needs to fill the void left by The Anti-Social Club on Saturday nights - right now it's just the usual safe music mix. They need either a talk-intensive or music-intensive (deviating from the regular playlist, of course) program here, because people are not going to tune in if Saturdays remain as vanilla as they have in recent weeks.

4. Last but not least: G Rock Radio talks a lot about being the new music leader, and how no one plays more music than them - however, in some instances they have been very slow with adds. Come to think of it, there have been very few in the last 2-3 weeks. WJSE in Atlantic City is playing the new singles by Blue October, Shinedown and Snow Patrol - G Rock Radio has yet to add any of these songs, but they still have the previous singles in the regular rotation. WJSE is playing plenty of songs that G Rock has yet to add. Meanwhile, what is G Rock playing that WJSE isn't - that lame Death Cab For Cutie piece of fluff? Criticisms aside, G Rock sounds very good, but I would like to see them become more proactive with the new music - I don't want to see them suffer the same fate as K-Rock.

 

[Chuck Wagon]

4. Last but not least: G Rock Radio talks a lot about being the new music leader, and how no one plays more music than them - however, in some instances they have been very slow with adds. Come to think of it, there have been very few in the last 2-3 weeks. WJSE in Atlantic City is playing the new singles by Blue October, Shinedown and Snow Patrol - G Rock Radio has yet to add any of these songs, but they still have the previous singles in the regular rotation. WJSE is playing plenty of songs that G Rock has yet to add. Meanwhile, what is G Rock playing that WJSE isn't - that lame Death Cab For Cutie piece of fluff? Criticisms aside, G Rock sounds very good, but I would like to see them become more proactive with the new music - I don't want to see them suffer the same fate as K-Rock.

#1 - If you look at the charts, Blue October isn't even charting well.
#2 - Snow Patrol's new single...if you're talking about "Chasing Cars"...i've heard it in power rotation on Z100. Why would they play that?
#3 - How on EARTH would you know why they add what they do? Do you work there?

Yet again, the SAME POST over..and over..and over again from SoulCrusher. With the same misinformation just in a different order.

I'm sure everyone on this board and anyone in the market laughs every time at your pointless jabber. Face it, it wont happen the way you want it to...so let it go. Please. It's so frustrating to see the same mindless crap day after day.

 

[PleasetoShore]

Wasn't it you who said that WRAT wasn't playing Korn or Flyleaf or anyone else on their sponsored show... but NOW, you say that the only reason that they DO play them is because they're sponsoring a show. So which is it???? As for ratings, you have to be kidding! Guess what... the whole darn market BOUNCES. Making any sense of them is fruitless. In fact, lets play a guessing game.... which WRAT daypart has a 24 share in the demo? Which has a 13? You've apparently got your finger on what music to play to get ratings... so, have at it. I'll guarantee you one thing, it won't be the same in the next ratings book. Smells like teen spirit TEN TIMES on GROCK in the last week - are you high? The actual number is 4. So, the lesson here is: You are wrong. Get used to it. Who cares when Grock adds a song? Honestly?!!! The everyday listener DOES NOT!

 

[radroad]

well whatever the rat's doing never seems to work cause there ratings seem to always be at the bottom of the barrell. i dont think g rock really goes after the male demo so what they do seems to work.

 

[SoulCrusher]

#1 - If you look at the charts, Blue October isn't even charting well.
#2 - Snow Patrol's new single...if you're talking about "Chasing Cars"...i've heard it in power rotation on Z100. Why would they play that?
#3 - How on EARTH would you know why they add what they do? Do you work there?

Yet again, the SAME POST over..and over..and over again from SoulCrusher. With the same misinformation just in a different order.

I'm sure everyone on this board and anyone in the market laughs every time at your pointless jabber. Face it, it wont happen the way you want it to...so let it go. Please. It's so frustrating to see the same mindless crap day after day.

1. "Into The Ocean" may not be charting well. but then again, neither is DCFC's "I Will Follow You Into The Dark" (just slightly higher, last time I checked), which G Rock is giving tons of spins. Chart position doesn't always gauge how the audience will respond to it - last year, the Stereophonics song "Dakota" barely cracked the Modern Rock Top 40, but it was quite popular with the G Rock audience. The same holds true this year for Anberlin and "Paperthin Hymn". I was just observing that G Rock is stagnating with their adds, and I would like to see them pick up the pace.

2. Maybe "Chasing Cars" is getting spins on other formats, but it's also going for adds at Alternative - hence the reason why The Ace is playing it. If G Rock were to add it, this would be within the comfort zone, with Snow Patrol being a well-established act (God knows they played the bloody hell out of "Run" when it came out). Of course, there's stuff I would rather see them push (as stated before), but it's a new song that would keep the mix from getting stale.

3. I don't know their criteria for adding, but it seems that with the exception of established acts, they seem to select tracks that test really well with Females. Even casual listeners know that Women are the demo that G Rock Radio is making the greatest effort to target - how else to explain all the poppy pseudo-punk and sappy balladry? I will continue to feel this way until they really take a gamble with a couple of their adds and prove me wrong.