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WDUV...why is it always top-rated?
- Thread starter vinyltapecd
- Start date
Interstate4Jammer said:
Based on an average of April, May and June PPMs, WDUV is 12th in 25-54. It is 14th in 25-49 and 23th in 35-44. In 35-64 it is 4th, and 1st in over-55 and over 65.
It has defintely improved its under-55 performance of recent, but is still quite low... it was around 14th in billings last year for the market.
vinyltapecd said:There are two explanations that people will typically use for WDUV's consistent #1 spot in ratings:
1) They play good music
2) Tampa's population is so "old" that WDUV's music is what's most popular there
I think it's definitely a combination of the two; however, I personally feel that the "good music" factor is MUCH more valid than the "old people" factor. Sure, Tampa's population is about 30% over 55, which definitely represents an "old" population. BUT...you have to remember that pretty much any city today has at least 20% of its population over 55. Therefore, I just don't believe that this small demographic difference is enough to turn a supposedly "dead" format into a ratings-topper. Yeah, "the extra 10% of 55+ residents in Tampa are what make WDUV the most listened to station; without this extra 10%, this format would totally flop in any other market". With all due respect, I think that theory is plain baloney.
MY GUESS is that WDUV's music draws listeners of all ages based on its universal appeal. The music has catchy tunes, it has plenty of instruments besides electronic percussion or ear-splitting horns/guitars, and it just "flows"...sadly, these characteristics are generally missing on the radio today. Sure, most young people won't admit to liking WDUV's music, because it is pretty much the most "uncool" music around today. But this does not mean that they don't secretly enjoy the music, and listen to it in the car when no one else is around. As a 27 year old male (bet you didn't see that one coming), I think WDUV's format is probably my favorite radio format of all time...yet I never divulge this to anyone except my wife, parents, etc...in fear of being ridiculed. Now I'm not saying that everyone my age loves to listen Neil Diamond or the Carpenters on a daily basis, but I do believe that a significant percentage of WDUV's audience is in fact YOUNGER people.
So what do you think...why is WDUV so popular? Any comments are welcome and encouraged, but PLEASE spare me the sermons about advertisers, target demographics, etc.
I totally agree with you about the music. Too bad more traditional ACs played this music rather than out hipping the audience with green day
DavidEduardo said:
Wait a minute. I'm probably misinterpreting something here, and in that case, forgive me for my stupidity. But based on WDUV's 1st place rank in 12+...don't the numbers quoted here seem to suggest that over 90% of the 12+ listeners are actually over 55?? If a station is 12th in 25-54 and 1st in over 55, the only way that it can still be ranked first place in 12+ overall would be if almost everybody measured in the 12+ numbers is actually in the "over 55" group, right?
As for my personal taste, I agree we need more stations as WDUV because I like the music. However, from an advertising perspective, most station owners will not place a "WDUV" format on a big FM stick because the format does not largely appeal to an Adult: 25-54 demo. On the surface, WDUV would seem to be an anomaly since it goes somewhat against the standard - that being 25-54 Adult on a big FM stick.
If you know your Tampa Bay radio history, you'll note that WDUV was originally on 103.3 and broadcast from Bradenton. At that time WDUV programmed a traditional beautiful music format, and, again, in my opinion, it was one of the best sounding beautiful music stations I've heard.
When Jacor Communications purchased WDUV, the frequency was moved to 103.5 which enabled WDUV to become a full class C FM with a tower move closer to Tampa. Shortly thereafter, WDUV 103.5 and WTBT Thunder 105.5 traded frequencies, placing beautiful music on the present WDUV dial position. Over the years, the beautiful music has morphed into soft adult contemporary, and it appears mangement continues to "tweak" The Dove every so often. I believe one of the reasons the format has remained "easy" is largely due to the coverage area in North Tampa Bay which consists mostly of retirees.
If you know your Tampa Bay radio history, you'll note that WDUV was originally on 103.3 and broadcast from Bradenton. At that time WDUV programmed a traditional beautiful music format, and, again, in my opinion, it was one of the best sounding beautiful music stations I've heard.
When Jacor Communications purchased WDUV, the frequency was moved to 103.5 which enabled WDUV to become a full class C FM with a tower move closer to Tampa. Shortly thereafter, WDUV 103.5 and WTBT Thunder 105.5 traded frequencies, placing beautiful music on the present WDUV dial position. Over the years, the beautiful music has morphed into soft adult contemporary, and it appears mangement continues to "tweak" The Dove every so often. I believe one of the reasons the format has remained "easy" is largely due to the coverage area in North Tampa Bay which consists mostly of retirees.
billalm said:vinyltapecd said:
Ahhh yes, but you're not taking into account the large number of college kids under 25 that are chillin' to DUV every night. I heard they were voted #1 again for late night after hours partying.
My fault, billalm. I totally forgot how many college kids love to move...I mean...groove to WDUV at those crazy parties!
So for now, let's hypothetically assume that WDUV is #1 12-24. ;DBut since DavidEduardo says WDUV is #12 25-54 and #1 55+, I still don't understand how they managed to finish 1st place among all 12+ persons. That would mean the 25-54 bracket makes up a very very small, almost completely insignificant portion of the overall 12+ audience in the Tampa market. Again, I am a complete outsider to radio, so I expect that there is something fundamentally wrong about my interpretation...
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
Any station that rocks out to Wilson Pickett is my idea of a party station. Party on,Garth.
sbe1 said:
Although the Dove format was on two frequencies after leaving 103.3/103.5, the actual WDUV call letters moved to the newly upgraded C1 105.5 frequency licensed to New Port Richey which is what I was initially referring.
The former WDDV-FM 92.1 Venice is now adult contemporary WLTQ Lite FM. The call letters WDDV have since moved to co-owned AM 1320 and is programming an adult standards format. The former WDDV and WDUV were split off from one another when Jacor merged with Clear Channel and CC was forced to divest itself of stations due to going over the market cap limit after the merger. WDDV remained with Clear Channel while WDUV was sold to Cox Radio.
Thank you for the clarification and for reminding me of the previous WDUV/WDDV simulcast. I had completley forgotten about that arrangement.
I’d like to circle back to the demo numbers David Eduardo posted earlier. My first reaction was similar to a couple of the posters – something seemed off.
I’m beginning to think INDIVIDUAL listening takes priority over the meter picking up signals through daily life routine. A typical, white 30 something male who is a part of the meter population will probably not listen to WDUV to and from work. The time spent each day driving to and from work would I would think carry more weight than when he stands in line at lunch for a few minutes picking up a sandwich at a place WDUV plays in the background.
Programming content apparently dictates individual listening. The Dove could be a little too soft or sounding too much like his parent’s station but there could be elements to Q-105 that he does like so that station may get occasional individual listening by him. I don’t even have to look at the numbers to tell me Q 105 would have to perform better in some key demos in 25-54 than Does does. To this guy, the Beatles and Motown and 70's and 80's mixes are cool – maybe The Carpenters are not.
It gets back to another reason stations that offer a hybrid oldies format don’t power-rotate a bunch of 60’s songs every hour. That 30 something guy would probably put the station in the same category as WDUV and not listen on an individual basis.
I think what comes into play too is a lot of places a typical 30 something would frequent such as a restaurant more than likely wouldn’t be the mom and pops that offer the early bird special and are #1 with the condo crowd. I would bet WDUV would be the station of choice there. Places people meet after work where they can have a drink and take in a small plate and spend some time would probably have a satellite station or a local rocker on in the background and not WDUV. Sure there are exceptions and I'm sure with this economy even younger folks dig the early bird special. But apprently, not enough of them to make a big difference.
I’m sure WDUV gets a lot of airplay at offices. But I wonder too if the meter has the capability of picking up the station if someone is listening in cubicle heaven by a headset. Personally, I think WDUV performs a little better in 25-54 than what the ratings say – no measuring system is perfect. If there are a good number of those at work in 25-54 who listen all day to WDUV, I doubt credit would be given if the listening is from a computer plug in and a headset and that is very typical today. Maybe there is some missed opportunity if the scenario I paint here regarding the meter capability is true.
I’m beginning to think INDIVIDUAL listening takes priority over the meter picking up signals through daily life routine. A typical, white 30 something male who is a part of the meter population will probably not listen to WDUV to and from work. The time spent each day driving to and from work would I would think carry more weight than when he stands in line at lunch for a few minutes picking up a sandwich at a place WDUV plays in the background.
Programming content apparently dictates individual listening. The Dove could be a little too soft or sounding too much like his parent’s station but there could be elements to Q-105 that he does like so that station may get occasional individual listening by him. I don’t even have to look at the numbers to tell me Q 105 would have to perform better in some key demos in 25-54 than Does does. To this guy, the Beatles and Motown and 70's and 80's mixes are cool – maybe The Carpenters are not.
It gets back to another reason stations that offer a hybrid oldies format don’t power-rotate a bunch of 60’s songs every hour. That 30 something guy would probably put the station in the same category as WDUV and not listen on an individual basis.
I think what comes into play too is a lot of places a typical 30 something would frequent such as a restaurant more than likely wouldn’t be the mom and pops that offer the early bird special and are #1 with the condo crowd. I would bet WDUV would be the station of choice there. Places people meet after work where they can have a drink and take in a small plate and spend some time would probably have a satellite station or a local rocker on in the background and not WDUV. Sure there are exceptions and I'm sure with this economy even younger folks dig the early bird special. But apprently, not enough of them to make a big difference.
I’m sure WDUV gets a lot of airplay at offices. But I wonder too if the meter has the capability of picking up the station if someone is listening in cubicle heaven by a headset. Personally, I think WDUV performs a little better in 25-54 than what the ratings say – no measuring system is perfect. If there are a good number of those at work in 25-54 who listen all day to WDUV, I doubt credit would be given if the listening is from a computer plug in and a headset and that is very typical today. Maybe there is some missed opportunity if the scenario I paint here regarding the meter capability is true.
With regard to all of the other sound-alike FM stations, everybody understands the youth-oriented target demographic argument, but are these other stations ALL really successful when they ALL keep trying to target the same demographic?
For instance, are ALL of the other FM's pulling in higher ratings in the 35-44 demographic than WDUV? I doubt it. Most of them may be, but I'll bet WDUV is beating a few of them, even in this demographic. You can only slice the pie into so many pieces.
What I'm suggesting is that in an overcrowded media market, what with satellite and internet streaming making things worse, sometimes you need to sit back and really evaluate where you are and where you want to be.
Targeting a niche business is not always bad business.
For instance, are ALL of the other FM's pulling in higher ratings in the 35-44 demographic than WDUV? I doubt it. Most of them may be, but I'll bet WDUV is beating a few of them, even in this demographic. You can only slice the pie into so many pieces.
What I'm suggesting is that in an overcrowded media market, what with satellite and internet streaming making things worse, sometimes you need to sit back and really evaluate where you are and where you want to be.
Targeting a niche business is not always bad business.
dwtpa97 said:
35-44 is not an often called for sales demographic. 18-49, 18-34, 25-54 are the general sales demos with some campaigns going after Persons, some after Men, some after Women within these demos.
WDUV is 12th to 15th on average in those demos. That's why it is about the same rank in sales. Stations with even lower numbers, and there are a couple of FMs below it in 25-54, are either there due to limited signals (WJQB), limited formats (WYUU) or format fragmentation (several instances). All are either limited to local sales, or candidates for a format reevaluation.
You can't measure a station by the standard of those that do more poorly in sales or ratings. Advertisers that buy according to ratings don't look for tiny niche formats... they look for efficient delivery of larger numbers and buy from the top down. They seldom buy 12 deep.
There is certainly good local, non-transactional money to be had, but getting on the numbers based buys generally brings in better rates.
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