WDVE would be wise to read the latest Ross on Radio column

[Pratte4Life]

Link to it here-

http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/archives/2008/04/it_started_a_ye.php

While I think he's cutting the initial popularity of AC/DC short, it stands to reason.

When I first fell in love with WDVE in the late 80s, they played what was contemporary alongside Uriah Heep. If you could put Motley Crue beside "Easy Livin'" then, you can put "Home Sweet Home" beside Neil Young now.

Though why anyone would want to listen to Neil Young in the first place is another story. I'll give you "Downtown," but most of his stuff, in addition to being slow and difficult to listen to, is so dated you can't help but feel 60 when you hear it.

There's no more segregation. Troops aren't shooting students at Kent State. We've progressed as a society, but, if you're WDVE, not as a playlist.

By the way, to all you Baby Boomers out there- remember there's a big difference between BEING 60 and FEELING 60.

Which Mick Jagger, Brian Johnson, and Lemmy Kilmister all certainly do NOT feel.

Anyway, I'm off the subject. Point is maybe if they would embrace the decade instead of doing GOD KNOWS WHAT with Hair Band Idol and "Mullet Talk," the station might be listenable.

And don't give me that "they are still No. 1." If the Steelers go 4-12 next season they will still be the No. 1 team in town. Doesn't mean the product can't be improved.

On this thread and elsewhere, everyone jokes about how stagnant the station is. Mark Madden recently mentioned on his show that WDVE's playlist hadn't changed since 1982.

It is akin to listening to what people said about KDKA before they fell out of the top spot.

This isn't what Pittsburgh wants. This is what Pittsburgh gets because there is no rock competition in town.

I implore WDVE to start looking at what is going on nationally. We love you man! WDVE used to be one of the most cutting edge stations in the country (and the ratings were higher, too).

Be that again.

 

[garnet]

krock would have given them a run for their money if they could have held on for a small amount of time(2-3 years) but they (cbs) did not want too, if that was ryan mills fault, or someone elses, we'll never know...but it sure was the blunder of the market...cause it could of worked...and you, cbs...missed that chance....

 

[Parttimer]

The target audience at DVE is a 40+ male. 40+ males like Neil Young.

Maybe it's not what 18-34s want. Probably isn't. They don't care. They CAN'T care. They MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY doing what they are doing to risk it for the sake of "embracing the decade."

This is a business. DVE is a cash cow. They may need to change in the future but that time is not now.

 

[clangham]

You may laugh, but I think just the fact that the station is "DVE" is what matters to listeners and buyers of advertising. It's an inborn trait that the station is "God". ;D

 

[brian12]

dve has been playing the same tired ass 15 or 20 song playlist for the last 30 years
the same songs everyday
there is so much good music out there that no one will ever hear
cause if it aint the same 3 led zep songs or bob seger for the millionth time they will not play it

 

[Pratte4Life]

Clang- I think you are on to something there. And the same is true of KDKA and a number of other stations.

But let's ask ourselves HOW WDVE got to be No. 1. If Rush Limbaugh was still on the 1020 airwaves, almost assuredly KDKA would still be No. 1. If you look at the ratings book, KDKA's demise to No. 2 coincided with that move.

So score one for Clear Channel, but realize WDVE moved to the top spot because of circumstances beyond their own programming. It isn't like the early 90s when they would knock KDKA out of the top spot because people thought it was the best radio station in the world and had a higher overall rating than they enjoy now.

There was one trend where WDSY tied KDKA and WDVE for the top spot about two years ago. One wonders if WDSY didn't have a Froggy to compete with if they'd be able to compete for top honors as well.

Part- The last I looked, and it was a couple of years back, the average WDVE listener was 39. Now, this doesn't totally refute your point that the target audience is more than 40 years old, but it should be mentioned that Neil Young released "Southern Man" before I was born.

To anyone under the age of 45, "Southern Man" by Neil Young is only remembered as the song Lynryd Skynyrd bashed. It might as well be "I Want to Hold Your Hand" by The Beatles- because by now 1970 and 1963 just aren't that far apart.

WDVE has on their site the top 10 videos listed. Eight of them are from the 80s. Six were mainstays of the old Headbangers Ball.

While I realize the music video peaked in the 1980s, I think there is a tremendous arguement that can be made that this is what the listeners want.

I can find plenty of pre-MTV videos prior to 1980 on You Tube. I can find 20 Neil Young videos on WDVE's own website.

Nobody is requesting this stuff. The industry in itself has changed.

This market is demanding another voice- just like 104.7 was the other voice to KDKA.

 

[dtube1]

I'm 39, male, and have listened to WDVE since I was in the early teen years. But, I also worked AOR in the late 80's-early 90's. So, my comments have to be taken with that disclosure in-mind. I only listen to WDVE for bits of the morning show and some of Sean's show nowadays. My tastes in music are pretty diverse - but WDVE is still the default on the car radio (I do listen to the station from where I draw a paycheck once in awhile too). Fundamentally, WDVE has always been a "Safe AOR". There have been periods where they would open up the library a bit; but for the most part, they stuck with the core-classic material and tried-and-true new stuff. Although I too would like to hear them actually play something from the 80's that wasn't John Cougar or Springsteen, I am of the opinion that they need to start treating their audience with a bit more respect and open up the library in general. If they are dead-set on riding my demo to the grave, why not "freshen-up" the material with some album cuts? Trust me - the core audience is familiar enough with 70's Aerosmith to recognize Tyler's vocals on a track from "Night in the Rut's". The Electric Lunch and Sean's show seem to key-in on this material - why not take a hint?

Personally, I played enough Winger and drank enough with the likes of Warrant to never want to hear any of those pretty-boy wankers again - but I'm sure other 25-44 males certainly would (side note: I was in college in the mid-80's and hosted a 3-hr metal show for a couple years positioned as "No Poser Metal Bands" -ahh, to be young again).
-D

 

[corporateradiosucks]

Didn't we have this thread before?

 

[Parttimer]

Clang- I think you are on to something there. And the same is true of KDKA and a number of other stations.

But let's ask ourselves HOW WDVE got to be No. 1. If Rush Limbaugh was still on the 1020 airwaves, almost assuredly KDKA would still be No. 1. If you look at the ratings book, KDKA's demise to No. 2 coincided with that move.

So score one for Clear Channel, but realize WDVE moved to the top spot because of circumstances beyond their own programming. It isn't like the early 90s when they would knock KDKA out of the top spot because people thought it was the best radio station in the world and had a higher overall rating than they enjoy now.

How DVE got to be #1 12+ is because Limbaugh moved from KDKA. But #1 12+ means virtually nothing. WDUV in Tampa Bay, an automated super-soft AC, is #1 12+ and about 20th in revenue because their demos are as old as WJAS's.

What matters is that DVE is #1 25-54. They were there before Limbaugh moved.

And yes, CRS, we're on about the 14th re-hash of this subject.

But the bottom line is there's no owner currently in the market that's going to accept that challenge. Steel City bailed on RRK; CBS and K-Rock, well, we know that sad story.... Renda ain't changing WSHH, and Keymarket's a minor-league company that couldn't compete on that scale if they wanted to. That comprises your entire FM ownership roster for this market.

So unless a good signal changes hands, you're not going to see anyone take a run at it. (Ironically, if CC were to divest 3WS or the X, those would be the likely candidates).

 

[Pratte4Life]

Dtube- I did a three-hour show called "The Mauling Machine." And I played the hair bands along with the harder stuff (I loved it when I put on Motorhead, for instance).

And my God, if WDVE is going to be the only choice, then what would it hurt them to be creative?

 

[dtube1]

Agreed, P4L. I'm beginning to think that 80's hair metal is to current programmers as Disco was to 80's programmers. Did grunge really knock that much of hole between the genre's? AOR was hair band central - perhaps it too, as a format, took a fatal shot in 1993? Just thinking out loud here (err, typing out loud). Personally, I had had it with AOR by 93 and took an engineer gig with a news/talk (and quickly learned to hate talk formats). Again though, all just an opinion. YMMV.
-D

 

[kenhawk1160]

there is so much good music out there that no one will ever hear
cause if it aint the same 3 led zep songs or bob seger for the millionth time they will not play it

Agreed...there's LOTS of good music out there that no one will ever hear. But DVE is not altogether to blame for that. It's the state of mind shared among programmers in this market. Use the research-tested timeworn music and keep it to less than 300 songs.

To DVE's credit, they do occasionally highlight local artists, as does 105.9 The X. Had it not been for DVE, the Clarks would not have gotten the breaks they have over the years.

 

[corporateradiosucks]

Agreed, P4L. I'm beginning to think that 80's hair metal is to current programmers as Disco was to 80's programmers. Did grunge really knock that much of hole between the genre's? AOR was hair band central - perhaps it too, as a format, took a fatal shot in 1993?

I think that's exactly what I wanted to say the last time we talked about this but I couldn't pinpoint it.

It's not "cool" to play hair metal right now, even in an ironic or nostalgic way. Just like it wasn't "cool" to play disco on the radio in the 80s - early 90s. Maybe eventually hair metal will get redeemed like disco has been.

I'm a little young to know this, but did Pittsburgh pretty much miss punk? That is, we never went through a "I am never playing ELP again" phase on any of the stations?

 

[Pratte4Life]

Corporate- READ THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD.

It is based on a column by Ross stating it IS cool to play the genre now, and we're wondering why WDVE doesn't get with the times more.

 

[corporateradiosucks]

Duh, sorry, I'm a dork. I don't know though, I read that column, and IMO it seems more like he's talking about cautiously dipping a toe in and choosing what you do play carefully than a no-holds-barred embrace of the whole genre.

Just like there are people out there who call the Electric Lunch and request Motley Crue or Winger every day, there are those who have the Beavis & Butt-Head attitude & think anyone who listens to any of those bands is lame beyond description. I think you have to differentiate between the first wave of hair metal (Ratt, Crue) and the Johnny come lately bands that helped grind it into the ground with their inferiority (White Lion). The first I could listen to anytime, whereas if I never hear the latter again I wouldn't be sad.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Corporate- We may have different takes on that column.

HOWEVER- If you knew a dancer I did at Point Park named Shari J.

And her fandom of White Lion (or specifically, Mike Tramp).

I assure you you would not be putting down White Lion right now.