We need a yardstick, a calibration standard

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I have lifted a quote by my friend MikeFromDelaware from another thread in this NEWS/TALK forum. I bowed out of that discussion and did not wish to hijack the previous topic, so here is the new one:

MikeFromDelaware authored this message:

One thing to consider, most markets have an NPR station which does skew liberal so there is one solid generally liberal voice on the radio in most parts of the nation. Also, CNN and MSNBC lean left with their cable talk shows. Yet at the same time, I can also see the posters point in that it would be great if there is more than one commerical news/talker in a market for at least one of the commerical talkers to air liberal talk. There obviously is a market for liberal talk programming as NPR has demonstrated. They don't get the rating numbers that Limbaugh or Hannity get, but people actually pony up the money from their own hard earned cash to support those NPR stations so that they can hear lib talk and entertainment. So those listeners may be more commited to hearing lib talk than the conservatives. Would right wingers financially support a non-comm station that airs right wing talk if it weren't already available on commercial radio? Could a commerical liberal news/talker make money and get good ratings? My guess is, (note this is just my opinion) any market that has a thriving NPR station probably could have a thriving commerical Liberal news/talk station.

Mike: I really ask this question of all who read here. I don't ask an answer from you. I address it to all who read here but word it as though addressed to you:

Who has the yardstick by which we take measure of a person and determine what is their religion, determine what is their goal in life, what is their political/sociological view? I don't want this to be a discussion of who is right and who is wrong in their politics. As participants interested in effective, worthwhile and entertaining radio in the form of NEWS/TALK... it would be helpful if we at least understood what territory belongs to conservatives, to liberals, to libertarians, to middle-grounders/centrists or what ever title should be placed on the name-gag of those who do not lean far enough to the right to be called Conservative (with a capital C), do not lean far enough to the left to be called Liberal (with a capital L).

Here is what I am challenging from your post quoted above. A Liberal is probably going to be more happy listening to NPR than the amount of happiness to be found in listening to Rush or any other program normally considered Conservative. BUT, does NPR truly qualify as Liberal with a capital L?

I have friends from each of the classes listed above. I have friends who are "bang you head against the wall" Conservative. I have some friends who are "let your heart race till it bleeds" Liberal. Most of my friends are not leaning either way enough so I have to consider them somewhere in the middle.

Without us getting into an argument about who is right and wrong in their belief systems, can we come up with a yardstick that defines what makes a broadcast truly Liberal. I don't think NPR qualifies. (I concede you will hear individuals who we know to be Liberal either on staff, doing guest commentary, or being interviewed.) What boundary separates TRUE, BONAFIDE Liberals from others in a broadcast venue.

Please folks, discuss this is such a way that it qualifies as valid discussion of NEWS/TALK radio, not your or my personal ideology. I will be very disappointed if we get carried away to the point The Editor has to determine we have ventured into ideology debate rather than measuring radio content.

 

[Tom Wells]

As one who is a mash-up of conservative and liberal viewpoints, I'll venture that truly Liberal means "one who is willing to tear up all the existing stuff", who finds no benefit in any of the status quo. This is antithetical to a commercial environment such as radio because such views run "off the scale" to
socialist and even outright communist viewpoints.
NPR is carefully crafted to couch such "suggestions" in less confrontational approach, and is probably about as liberal as can be done in
a lot of markets without stirring up a hornet's nest of protest.

The yardstick has two ends, but there are those who cannot "see" both ends, and when something goes "past the middle" off toward the other end,
they can no longer gauge the distance but feel the issue or person they do not agree with has "gone over the edge".

This is partly human nature, but our present social/media discourse has only widened the gap, not helped bridge it.
As long as human society has "isms", we'll have to deal with this. But the comercial nature of radio (in the US) necessarily leans conservative.
How else do you expect your major advertisers to stay satisfied? They won't buy time on a declared "leftist" format.
That's not going to change.

The same way we'll never see a "Main Street" report instead of a " Wall St" report.
It's like asking a college age person about investment advice....it's not a part of their world, nor should it be.
It's like asking your pastor about the best clubs to meet pickups in....... it's not part of his world, nor should it be.
I see no solution to this issue, which was why the old fairness doctrine was a pretty good attempt at such a yardstick.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

Re: We need a yardstick, a calibration standard

The NPR as liberal is a silly notion. It is not on par with talk stations which are forthright ibn their opinions.

Can a liberal station work? Sure find some local advertisers that will support a message of higher taxes and more social programs.

National dollars will come to you if you have ears listening, but can you bring in local business owners to buy your product?

Only when the answer to that is yes, to the same scale as conservative stations will you see more liberal talk.

Success breeds imitation.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Much to the dismay of conservatives, Air America still exists. And much to the dismay of liberals, Air America has moved toward the center. Unfortunately, ideology got in the way of good radio during Air America's first years. And in spite of how much listeners liked Al Franken, Jerry Springer, Marc Maron, Sam Seder, Janeane Garofalo, etc., for their views, they did not have the experience as far as what goes into an entertaining talk show. While the current line-up of Lionel, Montel Williams, Jack Rice, Ron Reagan, etc., have more experience and a more centrist appeal, it will never again be the leader in liberal talk.

While radio station programmers marketed progressive talk stations as the local home for Air America, doing so was more a liability than an asset. Unfortunately, Air America's past problems may have poisoned the well at the expense of other liberal talkers syndicated by more established media companies.

But while conservatives may be gleeful at Air America's fall from prominence, Dial Global has taken over as the leader in liberal talk. This occurred with Thom Hartmann's move to Dial Global to join Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller and Bill Press. This is the same Dial Global that syndicates conservatives Neal Boortz and Michael Smerconish, so conservatives cannot accuse Dial Global of being ideologically driven.

Let's also not overlook Premiere Radio Networks, syndicator of Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity, becoming the new syndicator of former Air America host Randi Rhodes. This should remind everyone that while Premiere's parent company, Clear Channel, flipped many of its progressive talk stations to other formats, it still has the largest number of progressive talk stations in the country.

The progressive talk stations that still exist are, at best, AAINO--Air America In Name Only. Schultz, Miller, Press, Hartmann and Rhodes are the headliners.

And then there's that other liberal talker named Alan Colmes on Fox News Radio, who may not be considered liberal by many but garners more listeners than ultra-liberal Mike Malloy.

Much to the disdain of liberal listeners, a successful progressive talk station must have talkers that can appeal to both sides of the fence. Liberals have to understand this is a business, and ideology alone does not make a successful talk show. The lefties who find Ed Schultz "not left enough" or Stephanie Miller as lacking serious discussion of the issues seem to forget radio is an entertainment mass medium. Program directors who are willing to try progressive talk as a counterprogramming strategy are not going to make the mistakes of the Air America era. Instead, they will attract listeners and advertisers with the likes of a gun-toting, meat-eating, ex-jock from Fargo, North Dakota, and a stand-up comic famous for her fart jokes and "beaver stack."

 

[gr8oldies]

Just before the full-blown consolodation era, WLW found a guy named Carmine Guzman, who Randy Michaels apparently wanted to make into Jacor's liberal star. Carmine was on WLW on the weekend, and the sister station on 550 (whatever the call letters were that week) on weeknfghts. Carmine was so far left, IIRC he even considered himself a communist, and would make comments about "coming to get" the people in the suburbs, burning down the suburbs and some pretty over the top stuff. Of course, it had to be really hard to have him voice commercials "burn all the businesses, except for my good friends at Joe's". Not sure what happened to Carmine, he seemed to just disapear.

 

[Steven21]

Re: We need a yardstick, a calibration standard

Can a liberal station work? Sure find some local advertisers that will support a message of higher taxes and more social programs.

You're kidding, right?

So you are under the assumption that advertisers spend their dollars according to the message being espoused? Most advertisers would laugh at that assumption, national and local alike. Business is business. A wise businessman rarely lets a host's ideology affect his decision of how to get people in his door. The only time a host's mouth affects that is if the host says something especially inflamatory, in which case they may also be fired.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

This is a great thread, thanks for starting it, Goat Rodeo Cowboy.

I listen to NPR quite a lot, and they do lean left or liberal. However, to be fair, they do present the "other sides - meaning conservative" view point quite often. I remember being quite surprised, during the Iraq War, where they'd interview in a quality manner with no loaded questions,etc, a conservative Republican, or General, etc, and NPR seemed to not take sides in the Iraq War.

My point, that Goat Rodeo Cowboy picked up from another thread was trying to say, that most markets do have at least, an NPR liberal leaning radio talk/news for liberal listeners. If those particular NPR stations are doing well, then it probably might mean that a commercial liberal talker could do well in that particular market.

An other aspect of this could also be that maybe liberals (generally) aren't as inclined to listen to "secular" sermons for three hours at a clip by some so called liberal talk guru. They already know what they believe and do follow the news via internet, online newspapers, TV, etc and do vote when the time comes for the issues, but don't have a strong desire to sit around and "argue" the issues day after day. Maybe, they don't need the validation of their beliefs that conservatives need by hearing Rush/Hannity/Beck, etc each day offer. This isn't meant as a shot at conservatives, just an observation.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

Re: We need a yardstick, a calibration standard

Can a liberal station work? Sure find some local advertisers that will support a message of higher taxes and more social programs.

You're kidding, right?

So you are under the assumption that advertisers spend their dollars according to the message being espoused? Most advertisers would laugh at that assumption, national and local alike. Business is business. A wise businessman rarely lets a host's ideology affect his decision of how to get people in his door. The only time a host's mouth affects that is if the host says something especially inflamatory, in which case they may also be fired.

Local businesses are run a lot closer to the heart than you think.

This is a business if they could make bucks with it, they would. When they prove they can, it will grow.

 

[Steven21]

Re: We need a yardstick, a calibration standard

Can a liberal station work? Sure find some local advertisers that will support a message of higher taxes and more social programs.

I don't believe for a second that all local advertisers on conservative talkradio are against abortion, gay marriage, etc.
You're kidding, right?

So you are under the assumption that advertisers spend their dollars according to the message being espoused? Most advertisers would laugh at that assumption, national and local alike. Business is business. A wise businessman rarely lets a host's ideology affect his decision of how to get people in his door. The only time a host's mouth affects that is if the host says something especially inflamatory, in which case they may also be fired.

Local businesses are run a lot closer to the heart than you think.

This is a business if they could make bucks with it, they would. When they prove they can, it will grow.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

Re: We need a yardstick, a calibration standard

Can a liberal station work? Sure find some local advertisers that will support a message of higher taxes and more social programs.

I don't believe for a second that all local advertisers on conservative talkradio are against abortion, gay marriage, etc.
You're kidding, right?

So you are under the assumption that advertisers spend their dollars according to the message being espoused? Most advertisers would laugh at that assumption, national and local alike. Business is business. A wise businessman rarely lets a host's ideology affect his decision of how to get people in his door. The only time a host's mouth affects that is if the host says something especially inflamatory, in which case they may also be fired.

Local businesses are run a lot closer to the heart than you think.

This is a business if they could make bucks with it, they would. When they prove they can, it will grow.

I can tell by that post that you have never been on a sales call.