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WECK shuffles their lineup

Thirdly, I do not live in Buffalo and do not actively keep up with radio there. I have been there once in my life. I am not familiar with the case to which you refer. As such, I did not comment on it.

Please note that this is the Buffalo radio board where we discuss Buffalo radio.

There is virtually nothing that I find interesting about it other than my DXing hobby. With revenue and listenership down, much of the public obviously agrees.

Your comment about revenue and listenership is based on general national numbers. Some radio stations are doing just fine in both revenue and listenership. What has affected those two things is the rise of competing online audio services. They have diluted the potential audience. That is not going to change, regardless of what DJs do at specific stations.
 
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May I point out that you're the one who placed an angry emoji on my post. You're the one getting angry here, not me.
I have been respectful of you. I can't say the same for you. And you're right - your snarkiness, rudeness, and lack of respect for me has caused me to become angry.
 
I have been respectful of you. I can't say the same for you. And you're right - your snarkiness, rudeness, and lack of respect for me has caused me to become angry.

I haven't done a single thing except respond to your posts. I work in the radio business. I can respond with knowledge and experience, not opinion. You take that as "lack of respect." The same could be said of you.
 
And I was discussing WECK. It doesn’t mean that I am required to be familiar with all things Buffalo.

Again, I ask, sir or madam: Can you please be kind?
There is no kindness on this board, because you are dealing with bitter wanna-bes. They always wanted to buy a station and couldn’t. They always wanted to be PD and couldn’t. This is their only forum to vent. I have a 1KW station in the top 10 in Buffalo, only independent by far, and these folks on this board hate it. They don’t support me. They can’t stand we are doing incredibly well.

WECK had a 3.5 share in Jan. That will go up next book. We best 50,000 watt stations, and according to Nielsen who I have big problems with, WECK is the top rated ACH 12 plus Oldies station in the U.S.

But these folks hate when we do well. They are jealous and I don’t know why. I am not a genius of radio. I had tucked away money and bought a radio station I saw a lot of potential in. My team has done the rest

When you are getting older share demos in the 8 shares plus, that is pretty damn good.

So, don’t count on this bunch to be on your side. They hate that WECK is doing so well, when they should be supporting local radio.

They will hate it even more when I get more Buffalo stations, but this time, they will be 50k watt FM’S , and we will kick ass
 
And why can't I respond with opinion? As far as I know, you don't run this board. Among other things, you have rudely ordered me not "to change the subject." Here are two other rude, false, and snarky things you've said, and they go well beyond "facts."
1. "You throw around vast generalizations with absolutely no specifics." This is false. I mentioned a specific jock who gives opinions on his show (Rick Stacy of WOCL). I mentioned that revenue and listenership is down. Both true.
2. "Please read those rules sometime." Snarky and a false assumption.

I can go on and on. Of all of the people with whom I have ever interacted on this board, you are the only one who has ever given me a problem.

Kindness can go a long way, sir or madam. I wish we could disagree without the hatred.
 
We have way too many people getting their information from their cell phones when they're driving, or when they're supposed to be at work, school, or other activities that demand their primary attention. Cell phones aren't the answer to everything. They also tend to remove people from what they're experiencing right now. They certainly aren't a shared experience. They lead to isolation, not community.
But what cannot be debated is that smart phone technology has extensively changed how and where people get their information and I think that's the bigger point in this particular discussion. Once common ways of programming radio aren't as effective today as a result. One small example is that I heard a radio station do a teaser about a "big" news story a few days ago before going into a commercial break. Back in the day, that teaser would've caused me to sit through the commercials so I could learn what happened on the other side. In contrast, when I heard that teaser going into break a few days ago I whipped out my phone, read all about that news item on my own in a matter of seconds and then changed the station...Then quickly glanced at the weather forecast and checked the time before sitting my phone back down.
 
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There seems to be only a few topics/segments that PDs allow today...
1. First/second date updates
2. Hollywood gossip
3. Prizes/call-ins for answering trivia

Other than that, I can't imagine how any morning jocks are allowed to innovate.
Agreed. There was a morning show on a classic rock station I often listened to as it was entertaining, they normally always had a studio full of people, either on-air staff who were there to support the host or owners of companies who advertised on the station. In some cases they'd have a comedian in the studio on certain days who was sponsored by a local comedy club. One never knew where the discussion would go, and they had a good mix of discussions and banter about national news and information, entertainment news, and updates and opinions about local news and happenings. The staff were active in the community and attended lots of sports contests and public events and would then talk about them on the air. They had lots of regular segments with customized rock songs to intro them, lots of banter with callers and contests. About a year before covid, all that changed. Ownership remained the same and the primary host remained, but suddenly much of the in-studio banter and "entertainment" went away. Now that same morning program is much more music-centric with maybe a teaser coming out of a commercial break into a song, then a quick contest or 2 or 3 minute long bit, then back into music. There are only a few people in the studio with the host now, and though the advertisers sometimes call in on occasion, again, the host now teases what he'll discuss with said sponsor after a upcoming song or break, and the segment with the advertiser phoning in is only a few minutes long at most, then right back into the music.

I'm sure there's a reason they moved the morning show in that direction, but my argument is that if I wanted to listen to music and commercials on my way to work each morning, there are plenty of places for me to find both. I miss being entertained and the fun and sometimes off the wall in-studio banter on that particular morning show. That's what caused me to listen, not my yearning for yet another play of "Love in an Elevator" or Van Halen tune that I could play on my own if that's what I really wanted during my morning commute.
 
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That's what caused me to listen, not my yearning for yet another play of "Love in an Elevator" or Van Halen tune that I could play on my own if that's what I really wanted during my morning commute.

What causes you to listen is not always the same thing as what causes someone else to listen. The one common thing we're seeing is the longer a DJ talks, the more people tune out. We can chart this behavior very directly in PPM. We know the exact time a person changes the station or turns the radio off. We can then compare that time with what was on the air. What you didn't say in your post was if the change in approach affected the ratings in some way. I imagine it did.

Buffalo is a diary market, so we can't track behavior in that way. But one example I can think of is the alternative station in Dallas had a talky morning show. A new PD came in and dropped the show, and switched to a music intensive presentation, and the ratings went up. Perhaps it was coincidence, perhaps it was a response to the particular talent, but there was a clear cause and effect response. I'm sure there were some who were disappointed that a change was made, but when it comes to radio, majority rules.
 
What causes you to listen is not always the same thing as what causes someone else to listen. The one common thing we're seeing is the longer a DJ talks, the more people tune out. We can chart this behavior very directly in PPM. We know the exact time a person changes the station or turns the radio off. We can then compare that time with what was on the air.
Acknowledged.

Yet for quite some time I've wondered if radio (in metered markets especially) is programming to listeners ... or meters. Yes, yes ... clearly it's programming to listeners who wear-hold meters. But it is in some ways, like teaching to the exam. The number of families/households in a cohort is statistically acceptable, but precarious. Lose one household and your morning show (or station) can go from great to gone.
 
I mentioned that revenue and listenership is down. Both true.
Listenership is nearly fully recovered from the pandemic lows, and revenue is back to near the pre-pandemic levels. 89% of adults listen to radio every week, just 5% below the 1995 figure.
2. "Please read those rules sometime." Snarky and a false assumption.
BigA is respecting the rules and etiquette.
I can go on and on. Of all of the people with whom I have ever interacted on this board, you are the only one who has ever given me a problem.
Let's start with the negative emoji and not understanding BigA's industry knowledge.
 
Yet for quite some time I've wondered if radio (in metered markets especially) is programming to listeners ... or meters. Yes, yes

You said it. We don't make the rules, but like any sport, every radio station is trying to work whatever advantage they have. That involves song scheduling, break placement, and promotional strategy. Why do contests always start at 7:10AM? It has to do with ratings.
 
Listenership is nearly fully recovered from the pandemic lows, and revenue is back to near the pre-pandemic levels. 89% of adults listen to radio every week, just 5% below the 1995 figure.

BigA is respecting the rules and etiquette.

Let's start with the negative emoji and not understanding BigA's industry knowledge.
As you said yourself, listenership is below 1995 levels. Moreover, your claim about revenue goes back a mere three years. I can cite you - on many posts on this board - to make the point that revenues are down over the longer term.

I find "Big A" has been rude and snarky to me for several years. I am allowed to feel the way that I feel, sir. And I am not the only one who feels this way. I have received private messages from two other posters on this website that feel that way.

Lastly, why have the negative emoji if I am not allowed to use it without being called out? His/her response made me angry, so I used the emoji. Why do you have a problem with that, sir?

Can you please elaborate on how I do not "understand BigA's industry knowledge?" I am allowed to disagree. I have great respect for BigA's knowledge, despite the fact that I have no idea where or for whom he or she works; I lack such knowledge. But I am allowed my subjective view of FM radio, which I find to be almost intolerably boring today. Why can't I post opinions about radio without the snarkiness and rudeness of a single poster?

Thank you for taking the time to read my response, sir.
 
ScottBurns, I am sure not wanting to 'start something'. In fact, you are right on some points.

I find BigA tends to stick to his radio knowledge versus personal opinion. Yes, he will counter with the opposite of what you might post but I view that as somewhat like a teacher making the student see something from all sides.

You mention radio listening is down. It is compared to the 1970s when I got in this business. Even since 1995. Look at all the listening options and choices we have in 2022 that weren't as developed in 1995 or were even imagined in when people were going out to the disco. I'm rather shocked at how well radio has fared against the competition. Radio simply hangs in there only losing about 8% of it's audience in approximately 45 years. We were at 97% about 1978.

Revenue is down. Way down over the decades. When I started in radio my station was the only station in a town of 30,000. We were an AM/FM combo. Competition was a weekly newspaper. Today the market is 2 newspapers, a shopper, 5 additional radio stations and 2 TV stations (only one sells locally). The population has grown to 34,000. Back around 1980 that station billed about $45,000 a month. When I managed it in the 1990s I averaged about $17,000 a month. That revenue decrease is not due to programming or anything like that. The community has X advertising dollars, period. When it was just a newspaper and the station we got a big chunk. In the 1990s when there were 9 media reps pounding the streets we could only persuade $17,000 of those dollars to us.

Radio might seem boring to you today. I can tell you publicly traded companies that own a few thousand stations collectively, have spent enormous sums of cash to research just what people want from radio. Simply put, they refuse to risk their dollars on anything but a sure thing. Radio is now better researched and fine tuned for the audience than ever before. Remember radio is a business and every business is all about giving the customer what they want. Radio just has a crazy way of monetizing that: bring in the customer and then sell companies to talk to those customers (listeners). We think radio's strength is the fact radio's customers (listeners) get what they want for free and it's easily accessible.

There are many with opinions of radio that are not based on the reality of running a radio station. For a few it is a belief that company policy is to offer exactly what the listener does not want. I'm sure we can both agree that no business has a game plan of trying to force its customers to accept what they don't want in order to be successful. Some even claim the research is bogus. Indeed, if that was true, it would be the largest scam ever pulled off affecting billions of dollars worldwide. I'm not saying there isn't room to improve or that the system is perfect but rather it is the only system we have. For example, we realized Personal People Meters revealed the inaccuracies of the written diary. So even with flaws, there is progress being made to increase accuracy and formulas to adjust for flaws.
 
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I'll add one point made earlier: the poster preferred the talk of the morning crew compared to a Van Halen tune. I worked for a banker/CPA who owned a station. As a non-radio guy he made a number of statements that turned radio people's heads. One I remember was he said he preferred talk over music on the station he owned. I asked why. His answer is any station can play songs. Any station can copy us 100% if we're a music format. Talk is exclusive. Nobody can duplicate or copy us. He felt that exclusive offered a competitive advantage. I thought that was a great observation and I agreed.
 
b-turner, your post is a fine assessment of radio from a local, boots-on-the-ground level, one of the best assessments posted on this board in recent memory, and certainly in this thread. It's truly amazing (if not astounding) that your market of 34 thousand (the size of North Tonawanda, a suburb of both Buffalo and Niagara Falls) now has two TV stations, let alone five additional radio stations. That print publications expanded also is a surprise. The pie is only so big and the slices get smaller when more seats are added to the table.
 
ScottBurns has fallen into the trap of trying to get TheBigA admit that he might have misinterpreted something or possibly been wrong. Sorry, Scott, that will never happen. You'll find that YOU "misinterpreted something" that made you "wrong."

As far as kindness on this board is concerned, you often get what you give. I personally think that Buddy's doing a heck of a job with a KW AM with one excellent FM translator and a couple of good FM translators to fill in the holes. He's found a niche and is serving that audience well. The station has improved over time and added significant talent in all phases of the operation. It's evolved, and will likely continue to evolve.

There are naysayers on this board who pretty much "want what they want" from radio whether it's economically viable or not. When they start writing checks, they can have whatever they want on the air. In fact, they could do that now with a stream if they've really really got talent and viable ideas. I'm waiting for that URL so we can hear what they really think radio should be.
 
ScottBurns, I am sure not wanting to 'start something'. In fact, you are right on some points.

I find BigA tends to stick to his radio knowledge versus personal opinion. Yes, he will counter with the opposite of what you might post but I view that as somewhat like a teacher making the student see something from all sides.

You mention radio listening is down. It is compared to the 1970s when I got in this business. Even since 1995. Look at all the listening options and choices we have in 2022 that weren't as developed in 1995 or were even imagined in when people were going out to the disco. I'm rather shocked at how well radio has fared against the competition. Radio simply hangs in there only losing about 8% of it's audience in approximately 45 years. We were at 97% about 1978.

Revenue is down. Way down over the decades. When I started in radio my station was the only station in a town of 30,000. We were an AM/FM combo. Competition was a weekly newspaper. Today the market is 2 newspapers, a shopper, 5 additional radio stations and 2 TV stations (only one sells locally). The population has grown to 34,000. Back around 1980 that station billed about $45,000 a month. When I managed it in the 1990s I averaged about $17,000 a month. That revenue decrease is not due to programming or anything like that. The community has X advertising dollars, period. When it was just a newspaper and the station we got a big chunk. In the 1990s when there were 9 media reps pounding the streets we could only persuade $17,000 of those dollars to us.

Radio might seem boring to you today. I can tell you publicly traded companies that own a few thousand stations collectively, have spent enormous sums of cash to research just what people want from radio. Simply put, they refuse to risk their dollars on anything but a sure thing. Radio is now better researched and fine tuned for the audience than ever before. Remember radio is a business and every business is all about giving the customer what they want. Radio just has a crazy way of monetizing that: bring in the customer and then sell companies to talk to those customers (listeners). We think radio's strength is the fact radio's customers (listeners) get what they want for free and it's easily accessible.
Thank you for a thoughtful and respectful reply.

I appreciate BigA's knowledge and willingness to teach, but I wish it could be done in a respectful manner. Moreover, he/she does insert personal opinions at times. For example, he/she once disparaged live jocks as people who babysit consoles. I could give other examples, but I don't want to drag this out. I just want more respectful conversation.

You present some compelling numbers. I will note one more thing about the 1995 statistic that David mentioned. Even if listenership is down only slightly since 1995, the population has only increased. As such, the percentage of people listening to radio is down even more.

Sure, there are other options today. But I remember listening to Howard Stern, who knows a thing or two about good radio, talk about this very topic a couple of years ago. His argument was that radio needs to be more compelling in order to compete against new forms of media. Radio, he said, needs to give people a reason to tune in. Ownership and management have taken the opposite approach. Yes, research says that people don't want to hear jocks talking and that they want shorter segments. But emulating an iPod or other types of media isn't working. With listenership down and revenue down, why not try a different approach to attracting listeners? Why not think outside the box? If the current approach is not working - and given the revenue decline, I don't think it is - then why not try something else?

If radio is really giving people what they want, then why are fewer people listening? Why is revenue down, despite the bare bones operation that most stations are relative to the past?

Here's what I find boring about radio today:
1. Extremely tight playlists - it's appropriate for CHR, but playlists for Country, AOR, and AC are much tighter than they were two decades ago.
2. Jocklessness - even in big markets, nights are often jockless. Large swaths of weekend time are jockless. I am in the minority, but I love listening to jocks. They entertain me and make the music come alive.
3. Boring, liner-card-only jocks - this is not the fault of the jocks. This is all they are allowed to do.
4. Too much voicetracking across the dial - I don't want to hear the same three jocks on five different stations in a market. I know several markets in which this is the case. iHeart jocks tracking at up to five stations in a single cluster.
5. The loss of creativity in morning shows - see my posts earlier in this thread. Again, I don't blame the jocks. I know firsthand that jocks are not "allowed" the autonomy that they used to have.
6. Too many syndicated shows. There are too many stations in big markets that run syndicated shows every night of the week.

What you said in your additional post hit the nail on the head. How does anyone gain a competitive advantage if all stations are following the same formula?
 
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Wow Scott, I hear my words in many of your comments. I am going 'personal' in my response.

Because I know syndicated from local, I would say we have become too reliant on syndication, likely because we have lowered the number in the radio business universe to the point maybe there's just not enough talent reaching the level required to fill all the slots. If the syndicated show has great content I might find myself a regular.

Voicetracking is frequently not done right in my book. Where I work, we're voicetracked outside the morning show but they sound live and when needed change a break at will (ie: Severe Thundersorm Warning triggered by EAS is announced about 2 minutes later at end of song by the jock voicetracking the station). When you're doing 5 to 10 stations I can see where you tend to 'phone it in'. Radio has always been a bit too understaffed.

Because I'm in radio I am not a fan of liner card jocking. I've been told my personality was in how I conveyed the liner card to the listener.

Jockless is something I tend to not be a fan of. My reasoning might be more unusual. For the same reason I was not a fan of automated stations in earlier decades. I have a theory that we as humans have a primal need to know our world is safe. There was the expectation that a person behind the microphone would tell me of any threat to my safety or anything that might alter my plans. Seeing how angry people get when they are not alerted to flooding or bad weather by their favorite station tells me I'm not the only one. Those angry listeners are simply saying their radio station did not live up to their expectation of telling them what was a disruption or dangerous to their safety, real or perceived. Jockless says nobody is manning the ship.

Creativity among jocks, especially morning shows: I have found management typically does not want to get away from what research tells them to do. I have seen many pioneers that toss the playbook aside. The reality is those pioneers typically fail. That failure is not ignored but the process refined and adjusted so that after a few failures you might have something new and unique. Most management and air talent would rather not go there because the risk of failure is so high.

On tight playlists, I personally like the songs but I am a music lover. Thus my tastes run deep in each style of music and music discovery is important to me. A station programming for me would fail. There's just not enough consensus among music lovers. I get why there are tight playlists based on listening patterns. Ironically one of my favorite CHRs was a station in the 1980s that had one rotation: all the hits they played repeated about every 70 minutes. They played 2 recurrents an hour. If I recall, there were 36 recurrents. Generally they moved out songs about every 4 weeks.

You make an interesting point about trying something new. Here's what I have found: the one that tries something new is the least among stations in a market with nothing to lose. Those that invested the big bucks radio properties used to command would not easily be convinced to do anything that had not already proved to be highly successful elsewhere. Even management wants the same because it is job security and simply easier to monetize than a less proven option.

A Houston station was changing formats. Those of us across town pondered the options. One comment I thought was very insightful. The jock said they should go with a certain format. Others said it must not be a good choice because it had never been tried in Houston. That jock said, yes, how do you go out and research what doesn't exist so you can prove it is the way to go? He made a good point. Then again the station went Smooth Jazz, never before tried in Houston.
 
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