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WEDG the new 97Rock

R

Radio_bored-Op

What is WEDG's format ?

Modern Rock ? (or sometimes written as nu-Music)
90s Rock ? [edge-clusively]
"Classic Rock" as they JUST PLaYED AC/DC "Dirty Deeds"
or something else?

Yes, they have Shredd and Ragan
and that is a great anchor for their station,
BUT thats not my question (as the station is NOT a talk station).

Sure, they are AWESOME - but again, thats not
my point of this post/thread... trying to discover
what is WEDG focus, direction and official format -

what brought this on ?
Driving home yesterday, (forgetting shredd and ragan)
went to mornings, and hearing sooooo
much 90s, and seriously wondered WHY..

song sample went some thing like this:
somewhat new/current, 90s, Classic rock, 2000s, 90s, 90s
 
The real question might be "What is New Rock" these days? Are they playing new releases from the Black Keys, Foo Fighters, Coldplay, and, yes, even Nickelback? How about the new Van Halen album? And, in what proportions?

Cumuless Buffalo is trying to cover the rock market from the '60s through today. They're also centered on the money demos - 25-54. Reality says that you can't really own 30 years worth of listeners. So, WEDG centers on 25-40, and 97-Rock centers on 40-54. Add WHTT, which is looking for the pop side of 45-54, and you have a pretty strong sales demographic for males in particular. WEDG will be strong in the '90s because that's the strongest era for their target audience. AC/DC is one of those bands who is more of an attitude than an era, and that's why a song from 1976 sneaks onto a "Modern Rock" playlist.
 
CFNY: does a sneaky trick.
The on-air DJ/talent will name drop all of these
bands, and give the location/date of the show,
*BUT* not actually play them -
-
BUT, WEDG: DOES play the black keys, ( Im not
familiar w/ them), but BULL has played them
but he makes it out (either being honest, or
being "hip") as he is NOT following the playlist
and 'its his choice' . . . (as he does the live @ five) set...

again, same with JIM, (day) says some thing to the effect,
"yeah, we can play that one" when a caller chimes in -

?if they are still doing the interactive 8 at 8, thats
eight new songs, with # 7 - being the choice of (josh potter)...

TRUST ME:
I dont mind the 90s, but it seems it is over saturated with
aLOT more than new music..
 
Rock is dead.

To define "dead": as a cultural force the way it was even as late as Nickelback's All The Right Reasons or Minutes To Midnight by Linkin Park, it's over.

And to have another Pop Culture moment on the scale of American Idiot...I think if/when it happens again it'll be like Chuck Mangione's "Feels So Good" was for Pop in 1978: killer track but the Jazz era was definitely never comin' back. Even if Spyro Gyra's "Morning Dance" was a hit the following year.

Rock has splintered so far and so wide, I'm not sure there's an act our there that could unite enough of the different Rock factions and deliver an impact on the order of American Idiot.

It can be argued that radio has dropped the ball so badly...but then again I'm not certain radio could have helped. Sure, Active/Modern formats played Rage Against The Machine and System Of A Down, but as those sounds evolved into today's hardcore/metalcore acts etc...today's Alternative, or New Rock music, in other words...it just seems to me like they evolved out of mainstream Pop Culture and off the radio.

Would an act like The Devil Wears Prada work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pns297l_sfs

My oldest son is a huge fan of TDWP so I'm well exposed to their music, and that of their contemporaries. I've gotten the feeling that it's just understood by the fanbase of such acts as TDWP that it's gonna be the live show, social media and word of mouth that builds a following. And they seem to revel in their underground status.

SirRox, a co-worker of mine (on our Hot AC sister station) with extensive Modern Rock experience says Nickelback's persona non grata in that format, making them this year's Starship. I like "When We Stand Together" far more than I ever liked "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" but what do I know? I checked his claim by calling up the playlist of our local Modern Rock station. Going back 300 titles, I found "The Middle" and even "Good Riddance" and Marcy Playground, but no Nickelback.

http://www.1059thex.com/iplaylist/playlist.html?net=1

You don't have to go back more than 50-60 titles to see the reliance on the 90's either.

As for "Tattoo"...they're not showing up on the Mediabase Alternative charts. They are #21-#19 Active Rock.

Bored-Op, I think your question validates my point on the splintering of Rock in general. My comments are simply based on overall observations and are not intended to speak to WEDG directly.

2 more things:

I'll argue that Alternative is stuck in the 90's today the way Oldies was stuck in the 60's 25 years ago. Even back when the music was current, I perceived many parallels between 90's Pop/Rock and 60's Pop/Rock...even before Smash Mouth and Sugar Ray made those parallels obvious later in the decade. This one in particular seems to channel the Kinks through the Knickerbockers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1du1EdYf0zI

And if the Kinks were new in 1995 they'd be The Presidents Of The United States Of America!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sj_U6vObUA

I can't blame Alternative for going back again and again to the 90's well, but the day will come when it dries up...it was an amazing and magical era but Pop Culture moved on and Modern Rock's critical mass shrank. Which brings up point #2.

If it were radio missing the boat on something with great popular demand...I think you'd see Rock's shares thru the roof and Top 40 in trouble...the way it was in 1979-82. But that's not happening.

I offer, again, Jay Frank's analysis. http://www.futurehitdna.com/rock-is-dead-part-2/

Seems there's a still lot of interest in Classic Rock and as I've argued elsewhere, for new music in that vein, you go to Country.

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2012/01/20/rhinofy-keith-urban/

Or else you get every other great 80's act to put out a track as amazing as "Tattoo"...btw it was my son the TDWP fan who brought it to my attention. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WfQ-hV3WtA&ob=av2e

BTW CFNY's trick was employed by many Top 40's, 40 years ago...tell everyone where Mott The Hoople and Jethro Tull were playing but never air "All The Young Dudes" or "Aqualung". Kudos to Jeff Kaye and Don Berns for actually airing some of those Rock tracks on 'KB way back when.

Anyway, back to the question at hand...
 
Ain't much new under the sun, 'Op. Next thing you know, they'll be speeding up songs to make 'em sound "draggy" on other stations and so they can slip in an extra commercial per set without cutting down on the number of songs... ;)
 
While Nu-Metal/Hard Rock acts are no longer gathering mainstream appeal, acts that at one time would have been considered "alternative rock" still manage to cross-over into Hot AC and CHR. Florence And The Machine, Mumford & Sons, Black Keys, Foster The People....
 
This discussion brings to mind one line from a seminal rock anthem of the 60s. "There's something happening here / What it is ain't exactly clear..."

I'll offer a perspective which has more to do with the morning shows than the music. I concur with Rox and others, Chaz 108 in particular who have posted about music in particular and the Edge being a rock station having the latitude to play music that falls within the penumbra of rock. "Classic Rock that really rocks" usually means AC/DC, UFO or Zep... but not Bob Seger or Foreigner.

Seems 97 Rock and the Edge have a problem that parallels Star and Kiss. The two stations often tread on the other's territory. 97 and 103 again have high profile morning shows. Both shows appeal to Men. Shredd & Ragan are actually maturing, so it's likely they're nibbling at a few 35 to 45 year olds who at one time felt comfortable with 97 Rock, but may have tired of the 97 Rock Routine. And not far down the dial WHTT plays 60s and 70s pop-rock hits that nibbles another slice of a pie that 97 Rock had to itself.

97 and 103 no longer have the Bills. The team may have only played 20 games a season, primarily in the Fall book, but the image of the team was indelibly stamped on both stations. Now the Bills have moved to WGR, the AM (of all things) sports station that took 97 Rock's morning show down a few notches and trampled on the Edge's morning show. So here we are with Shredd & Ragan to the rescue of the Edge, "live 'n local in the morning" and very likely to take some listeners from 97 Rock. Call it the law of unintended consequences.

Adding to the gravity of the situation, Jack continues to belch out a diet of predominantly 80s rock and takes an occasional bite out of 97 Rock. In the Fall book, Men 25-54, 7 to mid, Jack tied 97 Rock for third place. Between WGR, the Edge, Jack and not having the Bills, the complexion of the competition changes significantly for 97 Rock. And because many males find their new rock coming from Country rather than Active-Alt-Modern rock stations like the Edge, WYRK adds some pressure to 97 Rock.

Don't expect 97 Rock to roll over, but the days of the Bills contributing enormous weekend shares to the Monday - Sunday 6 a..m. to midnight totals, especially Men 25-54, have slipped away. And then there's the sword of Damocles, that being Lew Dickey & Company, hanging over the cluster.

"Turn and face the strain changes / Look out you rock n rollers / Pretty soon you'll get a little older."
 
i know we cant say numbers, but found this interesting:

97/103.3 BOTH have the bills football -> but the numbers don't reflect
that the SAME BROADCAST was on both stations!!
 
Radio_bored-Op said:
97/103.3 BOTH have the bills football -> but the numbers don't reflect
that the SAME BROADCAST was on both stations!!
Click to expand...

Buffalo is still a diary format for logging who's listening to what right? Perhaps that may be why.

Try that in the Toronto market! If two stations there were to air the same thing, the PPM would most likely register a separate tone for each station regardless of what airs, I'm guessing.
 
Yeziknoradio said:
I don't think Rock is dead.
Let's ask Alan Cross (The former voice of CFNY's "The ongoing history of new rock")

Here's something from back in the Summer of 2011, simply titled "Is Rock radio Dying or not".
http://www.alancross.ca/a-journal-of-musical-things/2011/8/24/is-rock-radio-dying-or-not.html
Click to expand...

I'd read that Sean Ross piece when it first came out and just took time to read it again. In a way he's making my case...

"harder than ever for alternative to send its music to the mainstream. The bands that unite all those different rock constituencies are in short supply. "

"...And while it’s possible for an indie rock act to debut atop the Billboard 200 now without significant airplay, it’s harder in an era of declining sales to achieve the sort of sustained critical mass that pop radio is forced to acknowledge."

Further down in the piece he does acknowledge the crossover success of Foster The People, Neon Trees and Kings of Leon - as he legitimately should - and notes that when a crossover happens "it is enthusiastically consumed". As I'd hope it would be.

But Rock has ceased to be the center of Pop Culture. I truly believe if it weren't so, you'd see the Pop acts and Top 40 stations floundering while the Rock formats boom.

I see a parallel from Country. In Sean's last paragraph, he recalls when "the haters" were dissing Country Music back 'bout 1985. When I get into this discussion with people who fondly (and IMO correctly) remember the Judds, George Strait, Kenny Rogers, Waylon/Willie and of course Alabama...I make the important disctinction that they were the exceptions to the rule. The rule was lite-pop minor league crap like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkDkZIz0sJE

After Randy Travis sent the Louise Mandrells of the world out to pasture...or off to Branson...and the 1989-91 Hat Acts took their place...although Country hits were no longer crossing over to Top 40 ("Islands In The Stream" was the last one for close to a decade), people were discovering Country Music and becoming fans. Top 40 was reeling and Rock had no answers unless you were either Alternative or Nu-Metal (no mellower than Guns 'N Roses!).

Check WYRK's ratings over the last two decades...I'll bet their rise to dominance dates to this 1989-92 era, and that before then it was a mid-pack station at best. Just a guess.

No, Rock will never dry up and blow away. Its influences are felt everywhere. I do think it will come to be regarded like Jazz or Classical. And I also think as the pressure lessens to compose music to reach a mass culture, and the threshold for success in Rock is redefined, better Rock music will emerge. Not everyone will get it when it happens...I may not get it when it happens, but then again how many people get Jazz or Classical? Sure everyone knows Glenn Miller's "In The Mood" but that hearkens back to an era in which Jazz was the nation's Pop Music.

Anyway I look forward to hearing more Rock crossover into Pop. But make no mistake...they'll be the spice in the stew...they won't be the main course the way they were 25 years ago.
 
I am a radio outsider, who barely listens to new music anymore - for this reason: Back when I was in high school, college and a young adult - about '76-'86 I'll say, you could listen to any number of rock stations - 97 Rock, WPHD, WBUF (I think that's what it was) and hear old songs and new songs all mixed in.

When and why did that change? I either had to listen all old stuff and then not be exposed to the new stuff or listen to only new rock music, which I was never motivated to do without being able to have the chance of catching some of my favorite songs.

So, I just fell off of new music altogether - unless it's by one of my old favorites.

I don't get why this happened?!?
 
bbb said:
I don't get why this happened?!?
Click to expand...

Is the question about why we like to hear songs by artists and groups we know? Could be Todd Storz and Gordon McLendon came up with the idea of playing 40 favorite songs over and over. Today, those songs represent some of the better days of our lives. Oldies, Classic Hits, Classic Rock, Classic Alternative. Or is the question about why radio stations which were once Album Rock or Top 40 stations that played new songs and some older songs, now play only current hits or songs by dead guys that are nearly 45 years old.

The Rockers got old (or died) along with their baby boomer fans. The kids don't want to hear the music their moms or dads (or step moms and step dads) listen to in the car on the way to the mall. So in that sense, it's the same as it ever was. Fleetwood Mac may as well be Tommy Dorsey to anyone under 20. "Go Your Own Way" has become a parody.

You'd think some Classic Rock stations could find a way to blend, integrate or whatever the hell you want to call it, newer music into the constant diet of Boston, Hendrix, Zeppelin and Foreigner. Fear. No PD wants to take a chance, and why would he or she, especially when there are mortgages to be paid and groceries to be bought. And listeners like that stuff, although the listeners are getting older and Classic Rock will, in not too many years, be the new Music Of Your Life format.

Listeners can be a fickle lot. They say they want "new music," but just as often turn away when their favorite Classic Rock station plays the new Dylan, Petty or Van Halen. Sure, listeners say they want to hear that stuff, but the average bloke really means "play different tracks from the bands and (20, 30 and 40 year old) albums I already know."

Some listeners who want "good" new music by bands that know how to play more than three cords at loud, have turned to Country. Digital dashboards. iPod, mp3, Pandora. Lots of choices. Even old school cassettes and CDs are in play (although not in digital dashboards.) It sure isn't 1992, is it.
 
Yes, you phrased my question two different ways. This was the question: Or is the question about why radio stations which were once Album Rock or Top 40 stations that played new songs and some older songs, now play only current hits or songs by dead guys that are nearly 45 years old.

And, this was an even better way of phrasing the same question:
You'd think some Classic Rock stations could find a way to blend, integrate or whatever the hell you want to call it, newer music into the constant diet of Boston, Hendrix, Zeppelin and Foreigner.

I seriously can't believe that the diet is exactly that - Boston, Foreigner, ZZ Top and a few others. It's like they took all the bands that I found to be mediocre at best and that's what they play. But, that's another tangent.............So, even if it is Boston, etc., it does seem to me that the way it worked when I was growing up would still work - some new rock, some old Boston, etc. I know I'd listen then - but I rarely will listen to Classic Rock now, nor do I want to constantly be listening to new stuff. WTF - a mix of both worked fine in the 70s and 80s.
 
Definitely hearing more 1990s tunes and "classic rock" from the 1980s on 103.3 FM. I'm not a frequent listener of that station, but I've been sampling more lately since this topic was posted. I particularly hear AC/DC and Pearl Jam and 1990s grunge music often in the 7pm to midnight time slot of Josh Potter's voicetracked shift.
 
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